Green Book Scam Warning

[nonghoidave]

Just want to warm fellow bikers that I answered an advertisement here at Thaivisa in December 2009 to get Green Book....and am still waiting in January 2011, minus all my paperwork and 131,000 baht.

A fellow named mark in Bangkok offered the service: have the bike for testing for 7 days then returned, the Green Book in two months.

Finally got my bike back in June of 2010 (gone six months)...but no Green Book, no paperwork.

he tells me in march of 2010 he is "dying of cancer" and "leaving Thailand" and gives me texas phone number to contact him. Tells me "his secretary" will obtain Green Book for me.

His secretary and her husband were the ones that picked up my bike for testing. Nok and Cha, the owners of ............

As late as September 2010 she was assuring me "Green Book soon." Now? When I call to ask where my Green Book is, where my paperwork is? They just hang up, then don't answer my calls. ................. shop in Bangkok: use your own discretion doing business with them. Of course, I have email trail to prove everything I am asserting, believe it.

January 21, 2011, I receive call on my mobile from "Unknown": silence....then a voice saying "oh, sorry, my secretary called the wrong number" then hangs up.

It was the elusive Mark, I know that voice anywhere. Any bikers out there know where this Mr. Mark is hanging out in Bangkok? Bikers? Where is Mark, where can nonghoidave find him? Tell him if you know him, he best return all my paperwork asap, and the funds.

Because I do not let people con me and get away with it. Especially some farang like mark.

Mark, where are you?

[katabeachbum]

Thai law does not allow naming and shaming until a court ruling exists on the matter. Up to 1 year in jail and unlimited financial claims for namer and shamer. Thus naming and shaming is against Forum rules.

I have edited OPs post and removed info to make it acceptable. If exact location or name is revealed, Topic will be closed.

Good luck in regaining your funds and docs

I guss we all learn something about green books and crooks from OP

[crazygreg44]

I like to remind you, that you can t run any legal claims against them. You know the country, the rules and how bike import proceedings "normally" work. You were trying to obtain a green book by obvious illegal means, and it failed. Don t blame anyone but yourself.

[thaicbr]

I like to remind you, that you can t run any legal claims against them. You know the country, the rules and how bike import proceedings "normally" work. You were trying to obtain a green book by obvious illegal means, and it failed. Don t blame anyone but yourself.

I do not see any thing illegal using an agent to do the work. especially in a country were you do not speak the language and pretty much every LTD have different rules to follow. Sure he got scammed BUT if the paperwork was in order then nothing illegal..

Also i actually do not know many people who know the rules of big bike importing thats why many use agents (including some shops)

Do you know how to do it??

[katabeachbum]

I like to remind you, that you can t run any legal claims against them. You know the country, the rules and how bike import proceedings "normally" work. You were trying to obtain a green book by obvious illegal means, and it failed. Don t blame anyone but yourself.

I do not see any thing illegal using an agent to do the work. especially in a country were you do not speak the language and pretty much every LTD have different rules to follow. Sure he got scammed BUT if the paperwork was in order then nothing illegal..

Also i actually do not know many people who know the rules of big bike importing thats why many use agents (including some shops)

Do you know how to do it??

agreed, handing over 131k baht and bike for testing seems all legal to me, and I would consider a law suit to get docs and funds back if OP has proper paperwork on who he dealt with(not spoke with). Official reciepts, copy ID card, business ID numbers and VAT numbers.

[rizla]

I met him once when i was looking for a big bike, to the OP, i take it that you know the shop he was acting as an agent for?

If not i have the shop bookmarked in my sat nav.....if it helps

[ChangNoi1]

I did bizz with that same shop and in the end (after a lot of problems) I did get a 100% legal Green Book.

And there is nothing illegal about, in theory you could do it almost all yourself.

As it is legal to build motorbikes here in Thailand you can make this kind of bikes legal for road-use.

Of course the way of importing a bike in spare-parts to avoid 300%tax and then re-build the bike here is a short-cut of the law, but not illegal.

As we all know that Thai government officials are sometimes not applying the law to make tea-money, so you will need some agent to asure that the law is implied. This costs money and is called corruption.

Also I did meet Mr. Mark who did advertise on Thai Visa and other web-sites. And he told me the same story as he told NongHoiDave. And I think he is liar (this is not naming & shaming it is just my thinking). If he or anyone else wants to file a lawsuit for that against me .... you are more as welcome.

As far as I know Mr. Mark is not doing bizz anymore with the mentioned shop, even worse I have been told by the owners of this shop that they have a problem with Mr. Mark.

In the end I would not recommend anyone to go this "green book route" (with any shop or agent) unless you do not have to pay up-front.

Chang Noi

[HDRIDER]

Look like there is a lot of people who know Mr. Mark it cant be that hard to find him then, then go to the police and sit down and talk with the boss, tell him everything and for sure a little tea money would help to catch him

[LoneRider]

Hey nonghoidave, I wish you all the best to get your money and the papers back, but why did you pay such a lot money in advance.

I know a few people, who can make greenbooks for others, but as I know, you have to pay them only step by step.

[nikster]

Sue them. Sure its a pain in the behind, but at the same time better than sitting around doing nothing, isn't it.

Friend of mine just won a lawsuit against some people who tried to scam him, got all his money back. So justice is absolutely possible in thailand.

[nikster]

Ps: no green book no money. That should be the rule in any bike transaction in thailand, then you'll never have this problem.

If the seller says "it's easy to get a green book" then great, get that easy green book first, and ill give you my money later. You said it was easy right?

[LivinLOS]

Ps: no green book no money. That should be the rule in any bike transaction in thailand, then you'll never have this problem.

If the seller says "it's easy to get a green book" then great, get that easy green book first, and ill give you my money later. You said it was easy right?

Thats simply not going to happen on a legit green book process. Theres many stages where you have to make payment and a shop is not going to put on 100k on taxes / tests / tea money on the hope you then come in to settle up.

I exchanged quite a bit of email with Mark, and felt he was a legit operator, he was pretty decent and clear in the issues and risks, but then I was asking the right kind of questions. However the execution of any of these processes is not simple. He may have felt he had a solution but the fact is in Thailand the sands shift so often that whats correct today may not be later today !! I also heard of his medical condition and need to leave Thailand. So expect that while the OP is out of pocket and didnt get the service he paid for, I doubt that was set up as a scam. More that getting cancer is something no one plans for and take priority over some guys paperwork.

[powderpuff]

Nothing illegal other than the theft of the guys money.

real sympathetic guys on TV.

I remember this a hole's ad.

Be warned.

[LivinLOS]

Nothing illegal other than the theft of the guys money.

real sympathetic guys on TV.

I remember this a hole's ad.

Be warned.

The theft ?? Well its a deal gone bad.. And lets face it that happens in Thailand a great deal over fixing books.

The fact (if true and from info I heard) the guy got cancer and has left to try to treat it / stay alive kind of makes 'theft' a touch strong. I would say I would have other priorities than following through with a Thai paper chase if I was told I had cancer too. Sure the customer would expect a refund, but the money was probably spent by then and the process started.

Bad luck yes, poor support for the service yes.. But I dont see this as his pocketing the money and running off, more just a deal gone wrong and poor timing. If Thailand didnt have such stupid systems so full of holes none of this would be happening.

[mic6ard]

I like to remind you, that you can t run any legal claims against them. You know the country, the rules and how bike import proceedings "normally" work. You were trying to obtain a green book by obvious illegal means, and it failed. Don t blame anyone but yourself.

I do not see any thing illegal using an agent to do the work. especially in a country were you do not speak the language and pretty much every LTD have different rules to follow. Sure he got scammed BUT if the paperwork was in order then nothing illegal..

Also i actually do not know many people who know the rules of big bike importing thats why many use agents (including some shops)

Do you know how to do it??

It's not illegal, heck the guy was trying to 'legalized' his bike by getting a green book (that's my understanding), his problem is that he trusted the wrong guy. Not to smack TV listing, but I would rather talk to friends and people I know to make connections. That way, there are some responsibility to the people involve. Friends don't cheat friends (too much ) or at least they won't run off with the money.

The guy is pretty much SOL in this one I believe.

Real sorry to hear about this.

[nonghoidave]

I guss we all learn something about green books and crooks from OP

Yeah, I guess "we" do, since it was here at Thaivisa that I saw the advertisement....your point?

So, now the update, that man at the motorcycle shop that defrauded me after I answered an advertisement here at ThaiVisa, told my attorney January 29 to send new Immigration paperwork, and Green book would be here in a month or so.

I did. Now he will not answer my attorney's calls.

Happy that you find it necessary to assist the crooks defrauding folks using ThaiVisa ads, Katabeachbum.

Anyone normal and fair wanting to be advised of the crooks to avoid in the biker world should send me private message, I'll be more than happy to name the shop and the people involved.

Thank a whole lot, Kata, you might get more victims for these cretins to defraud. And here all I am asking them to do is to RETURN MY PAPERWORK.

[nonghoidave]

I like to remind you, that you can t run any legal claims against them. You know the country, the rules and how bike import proceedings "normally" work. You were trying to obtain a green book by obvious illegal means, and it failed. Don t blame anyone but yourself.

I do not see any thing illegal using an agent to do the work. especially in a country were you do not speak the language and pretty much every LTD have different rules to follow. Sure he got scammed BUT if the paperwork was in order then nothing illegal..

Also i actually do not know many people who know the rules of big bike importing thats why many use agents (including some shops)

Do you know how to do it??

It's not illegal, heck the guy was trying to 'legalized' his bike by getting a green book (that's my understanding), his problem is that he trusted the wrong guy. Not to smack TV listing, but I would rather talk to friends and people I know to make connections. That way, there are some responsibility to the people involve. Friends don't cheat friends (too much ) or at least they won't run off with the money.

The guy is pretty much SOL in this one I believe.

Real sorry to hear about this.

Thank you. I was only trying to get a motorcycle I bought HERE in Thailand legally registered. The rest of you clowns with all the great advice? Yeah, you know what you can do....

[nonghoidave]

Nothing illegal other than the theft of the guys money.

real sympathetic guys on TV.

I remember this a hole's ad.

Be warned.

The theft ?? Well its a deal gone bad.. And lets face it that happens in Thailand a great deal over fixing books.

The fact (if true and from info I heard) the guy got cancer and has left to try to treat it / stay alive kind of makes 'theft' a touch strong. I would say I would have other priorities than following through with a Thai paper chase if I was told I had cancer too. Sure the customer would expect a refund, but the money was probably spent by then and the process started.

Bad luck yes, poor support for the service yes.. But I dont see this as his pocketing the money and running off, more just a deal gone wrong and poor timing. If Thailand didnt have such stupid systems so full of holes none of this would be happening.

"But I dont see this as his pocketing the money and running off, more just a deal gone wrong and poor timing." There is a difference? He gave me a phony contact number in states. He gave me the contact numbers of the people in Bangkok that own the motorcycle shop that ThaiVisa wishes to protect and not it's readers, that picked up my motorcycle in Chiangmai, as the ones to complete deal. I have emails from the woman owner as late as September 2010 assuring me the paperwork was on it's way.

HOW do you even attempt to justify their actions? You need to have it happen to you: answer an advertisement here at ThaiVisa to obtain a green book legally, and I did so.

They've stole my paperwork and money. Explain how refusing to return my paperwork is "bad timing" okay? Or better yet: <deleted>. Harsh? No, just "bad timing."

Have a nice day.

[nonghoidave]

Sue them. Sure its a pain in the behind, but at the same time better than sitting around doing nothing, isn't it.

Friend of mine just won a lawsuit against some people who tried to scam him, got all his money back. So justice is absolutely possible in thailand.

Send me the attorney's name and contact number, please. I am ready now: he played me again for the last month, and I fell for it. NOW he has me pissed off, and I plan to make him spend all that money defending himself in court. I just can't fathom why this man and woman refuse to return MY paperwork! I haven't asked for refund, just my paperwork returned! That is ALL I ever have asked them, to just please return my paperwork: they hang up.

dam_n it.

If you drive ON the ROAD on your BIKE, hold on to your cash tightly.

[nonghoidave]

I like to remind you, that you can t run any legal claims against them. You know the country, the rules and how bike import proceedings "normally" work. You were trying to obtain a green book by obvious illegal means, and it failed. Don t blame anyone but yourself.

You have some proof that answering an advertisement here at ThaiVisa to obtain a Green Book was trying "to obtain a green book by obviously illegal means" you best provide it, because I can SUE YOU for slander.

I'm here in Nonghoi, Chiangmai, ask for Dave, they'll go get me.....then we'll "TALK" crazygreg.....if you're 44, you're just a kid, so I won't mind having a very a LONG conversation with you.

I'll teach you some manners, boy.

[nonghoidave]

I like to remind you, that you can t run any legal claims against them. You know the country, the rules and how bike import proceedings "normally" work. You were trying to obtain a green book by obvious illegal means, and it failed. Don t blame anyone but yourself.

Oh yeah: the bike was already in Thailand, I bought it from a Thai cop, genius. Nonghoi: you're invited, I am waiting.

[nonghoidave]

I like to remind you, that you can t run any legal claims against them. You know the country, the rules and how bike import proceedings "normally" work. You were trying to obtain a green book by obvious illegal means, and it failed. Don t blame anyone but yourself.

I do not see any thing illegal using an agent to do the work. especially in a country were you do not speak the language and pretty much every LTD have different rules to follow. Sure he got scammed BUT if the paperwork was in order then nothing illegal..

Also i actually do not know many people who know the rules of big bike importing thats why many use agents (including some shops)

Do you know how to do it??

agreed, handing over 131k baht and bike for testing seems all legal to me, and I would consider a law suit to get docs and funds back if OP has proper paperwork on who he dealt with(not spoke with). Official reciepts, copy ID card, business ID numbers and VAT numbers.

I have email (September 2010) from one of the owners with all the paperwork (Automotive Testing Institute, Excise tax, receipts,etc) in attachments. I have the receipt she gave me when they picked up bike, and email receipt for the extra charge for testing of 21,000. I can not read Thai, but I asked a woman here that speaks perfect English (Master's from a university in London) if Excise and Automotive Testing paperwork, etc. looked official in her opinion. She said "Yes, very official." For my bike, in my name.

I do not know what they want, or are doing. The bike was already here in Rayong, a Thai cop had owned it and drove it. I bought it from his wife.

I did not avoid any import tax, I paid all taxes asked of me, I did not ask for any "shortcuts or deals" and I bought it only after seeing the advertisement here at ThaiVisa for obtaining legal green book.

Tell me where I went wrong...other than answering an advertisement right here?

I haven't asked for my money back: they performed almost everything they said...except deliver the green book!

I just can not fathom why they simply will not return my paperwork short of taking them to court. When my attorney spoke with the male owner last month, he stated he was "mad at me." When she asked why, he replied: "because he asked my employees to return his paperwork." HUH?? <deleted>????? 14 months later and HE gets mad at me? For simply asking them to return my paperwork??? Scam artist. Con Man.

Be careful: Very Dangerous driving On the Road on your Bike in Bangkok, don't want anyone getting BURNED or hurt.....

[nonghoidave]

Hey nonghoidave, I wish you all the best to get your money and the papers back, but why did you pay such a lot money in advance.

I know a few people, who can make greenbooks for others, but as I know, you have to pay them only step by step.

Because that was the fee stated in advertisement here at ThaiVisa, so I ignorantly thought it legit. Two others answered the ad: they both got their green books.

I haven't asked for any refund of my money, only paperwork. I have someone here that will get green book for me, but he must have the Automotive testing paperwork (they sent me only a copy of the receipt, not the actual certificate) to perform obtaining it.

Edited February 24, 2011 by nonghoidave

[neverdie]

dave, you keep mentioning the advertisement was here at thai visa, but surely you understand about the world of advertising and that its not up to thai visa to check that legit businesses are paying for the ad space. Of course, thats up to you. I don't believe anything in ads, irregardless of where they appear until Ive checked it out.

It certainly sounds as if you have been treated unfairly & I hope that you recover both your paperwork and money.