German Sentenced To Death Over Murder Of Swiss

[Dawn]

Personally I disagree with the death penalty as I feel that no-one, be it a murderer or someone seeking revenge, has the right to kill a person for whatever reason.

Peace!

[Michael Dorn]

According to a german news magazine, the "evidence" of the Thai police in this case is:"that the german suspect has a guard dog on his property so that it is impossible that somone else could have commited the murder" and that "neighbours testyfied that the german guy didn't like the swiss victim".

Well enough evidence for a death penalty

[Artisan]

Talk about Thailand's bewildering and inconsistent judicial system. This takes the biscuit!

A couple of years ago, the son of an influential politician was accused of the murder of a policeman in a night club. The son high-tailed it to Cambodia where he remained in hiding for several months before returning to Thailand to face the charge. Guess what? He was placed on probation because the evidence provided by the prosecution witnesses was deemed to be contradictory and confusing, even though the entire incident was caught by a video camera

Then, more recently, the notorious “mayor” of Saen Suk was found guilty of conspiring to commit murder. He paid someone to murder another “mayor” in Rayong. He was found guilty and was given a sentence of 25 years together with other sentences relating to corruption and embezzlement. He remains “at large”.

Last year, two British tourists were murdered by a Thai policeman in Kanchanaburi. Initially, the policeman fled to Myanmar to avoid the consequences but then returned to Thailand earlier this year. He was found guilty and given a prison sentence of 30 years. Does anyone know where he is right now?

This German guy has been found guilty of murder in Thailand and has been given the ultimate penalty for his alleged crime. He might be guilty, or on the other hand he might not be guilty……but where is the justice?

Thai murders Thai….........No problem for the accused because money and influence are one and the same in Thailand.

Thai murders Farang….....A little problem for the accused, mainly because the foreign media was watching.

Farang murders Farang….Big problem for the accused but, then again, a farang is of little or no consequence in Thailand. Who will be watching this story?

[englishoak]

I Don't really agree with the death sentence. Too many bad calls and innocent victims have been executed and thats a fact.

That said, there is the question of taking a life ( which is sacred ) and very often being allowed to continue on after paying your dues in jail. Sometimes 30 years but often much much less. What about the victim ? how do you justify that any spell in a jail pays for a life?.

Then there's the question of how they are treated inside, often it's easier there than having to work for a living. Mod cons etc. Not sure i agree with making it that easy on them. Although Thai prisons are NOT like that.

I don't have an answer and over the years I have often swayed from one opinion to another. Mabe thats normal and it often depends on my feelings of outrage at the time.

Remember TIT and the rules are not the same for everyone. The german is not in germany and this is one of the trade offs of being in Thailand.

We all know how inconsistant Thai laws are. The simple choice is be here or if it really bothers you leave.

Besides he won't be executed, too much bad press & attention + he's falang IMHO

[IsaanAlex]

If guilty, this German is obviously a dumb f.uck.

He's going to jail in a country where people routinely buy themselves out of charges and jail. He also failed to promptly return to Germany where they refuse to extradite their nationals.

The icing is that if he even killed the guy it was probably not premeditated. He probably could have pled if he had no cash to get out of his jam and would have been out of jail within 3-5 years.

And anyone who agrees with the death penalty in Thailand is a real dumbass:)

There is no law here that can't be bought, bent, subverted or broken.

How could you kill someone when those imposing the sentences are often guilty, directly or as an extention of their position as a government 'offical', of mass murder, (of alleged drug dealers, Muslims in the South, etc. etc.)

They are also the ones who traffick in women, drugs, vehicles...great mother of god I'm getting dizzy just thinking about the crooks, hehe.....

IA

PS. Who does everyone think killed 2500+ 'drug dealers' in 2003? In 90 days. Subcontracted hitmen and the police! The same pieces of s.hit that send people away to the death penalty...

Edited September 1, 2005 by IsaanAlex

[toni157]

Hmmm, In my opinion there should be no death sentence.

How Do any of us know what really happened btween the two farangs. Back in the wild west days of the US - only 120 years ago, if a man drew a gun on you then you were entitled to respond. In the US it is still acceptable to kill a man who trespasses on your property. It may upset the bleeding heart liberals, but look at the insane looting in Louisana and Mississippi! and also before any of the UK posters complain, how many times have we all bitched about people being sent to jail for injuring burglers, rapists etc who have invaded their houses. No Wonder the Yankees feel we are stupid!

Despite my inherent belief of an eye for an eye, you cannot execute people, because there are simply too many variables. The muslims are happy to do this but they also stone women who have affairs.

By the way whover posted and said that the man will be released is absolutely right - I just hope the kraut police do a real investigation

[gerryfarang]

Short answer. Yes. Leave your liberal claptrap at home.

Hmm liberal clap trap...interesting way to put it, I thought being liberal meant respecting civil liberties and human rights. I agree we should all be CONSERVATIVE lets kill everyone for everything, yes that makes GREAT SENSE. Look at the CONSERVATIVE ideas being expressed in Iraq, well done peace and prosperity rains supreme in Mr Bushes conservative war.

Lets not be liberal, why would we want fairness? lets kill kill kill, thats the ANSWER. It has been proved by countless studies the death penalty is JUSTICE and prevents crime!! Lets all be JUST, lets demonstrate that its wrong to kill by killing the guy who killed, that makes perfect CONSERVATIVE sense(pass me my bible, I think I forgot the do not kill part).

Why are conservatives so AFRAID of compassion? Killing is morally wrong, whether done by the individual or the state, what's so hard to understand about that?

[Khun Larry]

Get real all you bleeding hearts... An eye for an eye and HANG em HIGH.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Crazy post but great slogan!!!

[redredrose]

German sentenced to death over murder of Swiss tourist

CHIANG MAI: --  --Chiang Mai Court today (Wednesday) sentenced a German man to death for the premeditated murder of a Swiss tourist in San Kamphaeng district.

Judges Siriwan Nakawisut and Kanchana Singpaikaew convicted 34-year-old German national Gordon Adrian Koschwitz for fatally beating and strangling Raphael Baumann, 32, on October 11 last year.

Baumann, who had been in Thailand since last August, was found dead in Koschwitz's rented house. Koschwitz reported the death the next day and claimed that Baumann had died after he slipped and fell.

Police later arrested Koschwitz and seized a wooden club as evidence, but he denied the charge. The Department of Special Investigation took up the case before submitting it to public prosecutors.

After hearing the verdict, Koschwitz was taken to Chiang Mai Special Prison.

Koschwitz's lawyer, Watcharapong Tipsukum, told the Associated Press that he planned to appeal the verdict within the 30-day period allowed by Thai law.

"He says he did not kill Raphael. He doesn't know who did it," Watcharapong said.

Koschwitz has been living in Chiang Mai for nearly five years.

--The Nation 2005-08-31

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[redredrose]

Don't know what you're into, Thai Pauli, but it sounds like bad karma to me.

[Puma]

Talk about Thailand's bewildering and inconsistent judicial system. This takes the biscuit!

A couple of years ago, the son of an influential politician was accused of the murder of a policeman in a night club. The son high-tailed it to Cambodia where he remained in hiding for several months before returning to Thailand to face the charge. Guess what? He was placed on probation because the evidence provided by the prosecution witnesses was deemed to be contradictory and confusing, even though the entire incident was caught by a video camera

He was band from going to Disco but guess what, one week ago he had to go into a disco to save his bodyguard and ended up fighting with a movie star and get a bottle smashed in he’s back head.

Edited September 2, 2005 by Puma

[chico]

Talk about Thailand's bewildering and inconsistent judicial system. This takes the biscuit!

A couple of years ago, the son of an influential politician was accused of the murder of a policeman in a night club. The son high-tailed it to Cambodia where he remained in hiding for several months before returning to Thailand to face the charge. Guess what? He was placed on probation because the evidence provided by the prosecution witnesses was deemed to be contradictory and confusing, even though the entire incident was caught by a video camera

He was band from going to Disco but guess what, one week ago he had to go into a disco to save his bodyguard and ended up fighting with a movie star and get a bottle smashed in he’s back head.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes, but there is a glimmer of hope now, that hewon't get away too easy with the fight, as he already has been given anextension of his baaning to Pubs for another two years!

decision about fight pending!?

[chico]

I agree with the death penalty, just take a look at how it has sorted out all the problems in the US

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

if this was meant as a joke, I guess, not many understood it.

if it was serious, - have you ever looked at the statistics about crime rates and murder rates skyrocking in the US?

could you explain, which problems have been sorted out - if you don't mean "overpopulation" being cut by murders!

maybe you have a look at CNN and the reports of looting in the Katrina damaged areas, and even interviews where people are proud of looting!

[chico]

[And anyone who agrees with the death penalty in Thailand is a real dumbass:)

this doesn't need any discussion anymore.

There is no law here that can't be bought, bent, subverted or broken.

How could you kill someone when those imposing the sentences are often guilty, directly or as an extention of their position as a government 'offical', of mass murder, (of alleged drug dealers, Muslims in the South, etc. etc.)

They are also the ones who traffick in women, drugs, vehicles...great mother of god I'm getting dizzy just thinking about the crooks, hehe.....

IA

PS. Who does everyone think killed 2500+ 'drug dealers' in 2003? In 90 days. Subcontracted hitmen and the police! The same pieces of s.hit that send people away to the death penalty...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

do you mean by "suncontracted hitmen" military and police in plain clothes?

then I could only agree to it, you are absolutely wright, although not so much about the numbers, as they have been rather between 7.000 and 8.000

[meemiathai]

I'm a bit curious. For those who disagree with death penalty: What are your jobs? Have you experienced violence? Have you seen extreme cruelty from humans? Have you met people whom you think you wouldn't want to live with in the same world?

Visit Ogrish.com, watch those videos and think of a penalty for those who try their best to harm or kill others. Ask a rape victim how it feels.

It's easy to be lenient when one is not involved.

Talk about buying a law --- Is there a place on earth 100% free of that?

[chico]

I'm a bit curious.  For those who disagree with death penalty:  What are your jobs?  Have you experienced violence?  Have you seen extreme cruelty from humans?  Have you met people whom you think you wouldn't want to live with in the same world?

Visit Ogrish.com, watch those videos and think of a penalty for those who try their best to harm or kill others.  Ask a rape victim how it feels.

It's easy to be lenient when one is not involved.

Talk about buying a law --- Is there a place on earth 100% free of that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I have seen violence, experienced some, althouh not the ultimate, as I'm still alive.

But it is not up to humans to kill other humans, not even in the name of law, however good the jurisdiction and the system might be, which it certainly is by far not in Thailand.

It is also no deterrent, as we can see everywhere, not only in the US.

but one has to bear in mind, that life in prison is not always good and easy, and certainly does not has to be made good or easy for serious offenders, as murderers - they should have a hard time, nothing wrong with that!!

not to mention, that many religions to intend to give sinners the possibility to repent, which is not possible if you are dead.

[sriracha john]

What any reasonable discussion of this topic needs is further information regarding the case. If any of our learned bilingual German members could visit these sites, it would help us to learn more details. I've already referred the pages to website translation on google and yahoo, but they remained so garbled as to render them useless.

http://www.ln-online.de/news/archiv/?id=1531517&dbci=1

http://www.ln-online.de/news/archiv/?id=1540964&dbci=1

http://www.n-tv.de/573924.html

http://www.tip-thailand.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2473

In the interim, here is a photo of the accused:

From what I WAS able to glean from these reports, it seems like there are many unanswered questions regarding changes as to the cause of death, the police not sealing off the crime scene, the accused having an allibi at the time of death, the victim was apparently a heroin addict, the accused's house suffering arson days before the alledged murder occured, etc. The accused's lawyer brought up 24 discrepancies in the case.

Once again, I might have gotten wrong some of the what was readable in those sites.

In light of the above... there is certainly great cause for concern in this death penalty case.

[mcfester]

aa

Edited September 2, 2005 by mcfester

[mcfester]

The death sentence is always inappropriate, it is uncivilized! It does not solve anything and this type of rather primitive ultimate revenge is not the proper way to go! This goes for any crime including child abusers, drug traffickers, murderers, corrupt politicians etc. I am happy that one of the conditions to become a member country of the European Common Market is the total abolishment of the death penalty.

Imagine what it really is. It is some people in power - physical - tie someone up and then kill him in various ways (humans are excellent in thinking up ideas for this bizarre ritual). How humiliating for the executors. They don’t even have to fight to get the result they want except with their conscience which they probably don't have . . .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

====================================================

Have any of you people ever considered the "alternative" to "putting someone to death" ? ? ?

You see; it is my contention, that by "ending someone's life" you're also ending this person's pain & suffering . . . . I feel that they don't deserve this luxury !

I am against the taking of a life, but only because it's much more painful for such a person (if he/she is been found guilty, beyond any reasonable doubt ! !) to be incarcerated, until "The Manufacturer" decides that it is time for his/her natural "expiration" ! This way, such a person will have a long, long time to contemplate the horrific suffering he/she has bestowed on the relatives, friends etc. of the person(s) he/she has murdered.

Of course, in this particular nation, the operative term is "without any reasonable doubt" !

After some 14 years in Thailand, it is very clear that "reasonable doubt" excists about the integrity of the Police, the Courts and (as of recent) indeed, the Government.

As Churchill once remarked: "For everything that happens in this world, there's a logical explanation . . . . . . . . . . . . . and then; there's the truth !"

Oh; and by the way; to all those tough talking "Kill, kill, kill" proponents out there: have you EVER pointed a loaded gun, with the safety OFF, at someone ? ? ? ? Better think again !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What a load of BS!

What about repeat offenders that after release from prison they rape and kill a five year old girl.

You prat!

Have you EVER pointed a loaded gun at somebody? If you have you what was your reasons for doing this? Was it to threaten to kill somebody? Did it work? What do you think the death sentence does? BETTER THINK AGAIN !

[chico]

What any reasonable discussion of this topic needs is further information regarding the case. If any of our learned bilingual German members could visit these sites, it would help us to learn more details. I've already referred the pages to website translation on google and yahoo, but they remained so garbled as to render them useless.

http://www.ln-online.de/news/archiv/?id=1531517&dbci=1

http://www.ln-online.de/news/archiv/?id=1540964&dbci=1

http://www.n-tv.de/573924.html

http://www.tip-thailand.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2473

In the interim, here is a photo of the accused:

From what I WAS able to glean from these reports, it seems like there are many unanswered questions regarding changes as to the cause of death, the police not sealing off the crime scene, the accused having an allibi at the time of death, the victim was apparently a heroin addict, the accused's house suffering arson days before the alledged murder occured, etc. The accused's lawyer brought up 24 discrepancies in the case.

Once again, I might have gotten wrong some of the what was readable in those sites.

In light of the above... there is certainly great cause for concern in this death penalty case.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have read those articles, the first two are from "Luebecker Nachrichten" = News from Luebeck (town in northern germany), wher he comes from:

short story:

he was living 4 years in Chiang Mai, having a brick factory.

before that, he was a civil employee of the thai police, working in fighting drugs.

early oct 2004 a friend of his asked him, if he could allow a young swiss guy to stay in his house for some time.

this guy had just finished drug rehab.

one morning, a labourer found this guy liveless on the floor of th bungalow, it appeared he had been strangled.

they called the ambulance, but when the doctor arrived a few hours later, he could only confirm death.

the german guys lawyers (one from germany, one in Thailand) have not been given an official reason for the death yet, and have not been allowed to see the files yet. (last year in october)

second article (november 11th, 2004) about the same, with just one very interesting point:

official post mortem examination from switzerland states, that overdosis heroin can not be excluded!!

third link - n-tv - (one german tv station) from august, 31st, 2005 :

german embassy involved, will do all they can, but refer to police statement, that the german guy seemed do not have liked swiss guy, and that he had a dangerous watchdog, therefore nobody else could have killed the swiss guy.

fourth link refers to "tip" (one german "newspaper" in Thailand, which normally only translates and copies Pattaya News, and "Pattayablatt", plus some juicy stories about Pattaya, Phuket...), but does not give any article, just offers to become member

hope this is of some help

btw : I think do remember a topic to that case last year in TV, but have not checked yet?

[mich]

I think that if you take a life then yours should also be taken because you obviously have no respect for human life anyway, and to do it in a country that has that law then you deserve everything you get.

The only thing that bothers me with the law here is how much actual ferensic evedence did they actually have to prove that this guy did it?

[A. BOOZER]

Please don't tell me this was a argument!!! over a towel on a deck chair around a pool at 6.30 in the morning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, apparently it was 5.30 in the morning.

[mich]

If you think that being kept in prison, being feed and watered at the tax payers expence is a worthy punishment then you need your head tested. These people have no consence being looked after by the state is no punishment at all, for some sickoes its more like a holiday.

Put them down just like you would a dangerouse dog

[sriracha john]

What any reasonable discussion of this topic needs is further information regarding the case. If any of our learned bilingual German members could visit these sites, it would help us to learn more details. I've already referred the pages to website translation on google and yahoo, but they remained so garbled as to render them useless.

http://www.ln-online.de/news/archiv/?id=1531517&dbci=1

http://www.ln-online.de/news/archiv/?id=1540964&dbci=1

http://www.n-tv.de/573924.html

http://www.tip-thailand.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2473

In the interim, here is a photo of the accused:

From what I WAS able to glean from these reports, it seems like there are many unanswered questions regarding changes as to the cause of death, the police not sealing off the crime scene, the accused having an allibi at the time of death, the victim was apparently a heroin addict, the accused's house suffering arson days before the alledged murder occured, etc. The accused's lawyer brought up 24 discrepancies in the case.

Once again, I might have gotten wrong some of the what was readable in those sites.

In light of the above... there is certainly great cause for concern in this death penalty case.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have read those articles, the first two are from "Luebecker Nachrichten" = News from Luebeck (town in northern germany), wher he comes from:

short story:

he was living 4 years in Chiang Mai, having a brick factory.

before that, he was a civil employee of the thai police, working in fighting drugs.

early oct 2004 a friend of his asked him, if he could allow a young swiss guy to stay in his house for some time.

this guy had just finished drug rehab.

one morning, a labourer found this guy liveless on the floor of th bungalow, it appeared he had been strangled.

they called the ambulance, but when the doctor arrived a few hours later, he could only confirm death.

the german guys lawyers (one from germany, one in Thailand) have not been given an official reason for the death yet, and have not been allowed to see the files yet. (last year in october)

second article (november 11th, 2004) about the same, with just one very interesting point:

official post mortem examination from switzerland states, that overdosis heroin can not be excluded!!

third link - n-tv - (one german tv station) from august, 31st, 2005 :

german embassy involved, will do all they can, but refer to police statement, that the german guy seemed do not have liked swiss guy, and that he had a dangerous watchdog, therefore nobody else could have killed the swiss guy.

fourth link refers to "tip" (one german "newspaper" in Thailand, which normally only translates and copies Pattaya News, and "Pattayablatt", plus some juicy stories about Pattaya, Phuket...), but does not give any article, just offers to become member

hope this is of some help

btw : I think do remember a topic to that case last year in TV, but have not checked yet?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WOW.... Thanks so much, my learned friend. That was very quick and precise and well written.

I am quite jealous of your abilities...and I'm sure my German grandmother is quite disappointed I don't know her language.

That was most informative and thank you for your assistance.

Now, to the discussion at hand... The news is quite distressing as it seems there are even more loops and missing links in this case making one highly suspect of any verdict, let alone a guilty of murder and a death sentence. Are you able to list other discrepancies in this case as I gather the lawyer found 24?

With a guilty verdict for premeditated homicide resulting in a death sentence, I would think that would require one of those "guilty beyond a shadow of doubt" type determinations... and this case certainly is lacking that.

Thank you again, chico... (might I might enquire about your Latino-sounding name?)

edit:

the fourth link looked like a discussion forum, as I was reading or at least seeing German posts by the forum administrator who looked to be quoting news sources... did you see or can you check for the thread by it's Topic ID number 2473?

Thanks again.

edit #2:

A search of all the involved names here on TV reveals no matches. I believe this is the first time that Thaivisa has discussed it.

Edited September 2, 2005 by sriracha john

[chico]

I am quite jealous of your abilities...and I'm sure my German grandmother is quite disappointed I don't know her language.

That was most informative and thank you for your assistance.

Now, to the discussion at hand... The news is quite distressing as it seems there are even more loops and missing links in this case making one highly suspect of any verdict, let alone a guilty of murder and a death sentence. Are you able to list other discrepancies in this case as I gather the lawyer found 24?

sorry, that was all I found in the newspaper articles, but then : they were from last year!

With a guilty verdict for premeditated homicide resulting in a death sentence, I would think that would require one of those "guilty beyond a shadow of doubt" type determinations... and this case certainly is lacking that.

Thank you again, chico... (might I might enquire about your Latino-sounding name?) : [/quote

chico is the name of my (male) dog (german shepheard), and as I have lived for quite some time in hispanic speaking countries, I choose this one for him, as well as my name here.

btw, if you need any assistance in french or spanish, fell free to contact me, I think I'm fluent in both.

the fourth link looked like a discussion forum, as I was reading or at least seeing German posts by the forum administrator who looked to be quoting news sources... did you see  or can you check for the thread by it's Topic ID number 2473?

going to check it again, but then "tip" is not to be trusted too much for their articles.

Thanks again.

edit #2:

A search of all the involved names here on TV reveals no matches. I believe this is the first time that Thaivisa has discussed it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

could be that I found it in one of the "newspapers" like "tip", "farang", "Pattaya Mail"

[sriracha john]

btw, if you need any assistance in french or spanish, fell free to contact me, I think I'm fluent in both.

My mind reels with the abilities of some Europeans... hats off to you!

Quad-lingual??

Holy crap that makes me feel like a moron....

Thanks again for your helping, not only me, but the entire forum...

[IsaanAlex]

Chico wrote:

do you mean by "suncontracted hitmen" military and police in plain clothes?

then I could only agree to it,  you are absolutely wright, although not so much about the numbers, as they have been rather between 7.000 and 8.000

I'm definitely not sure about the numbers and do beleive, like yourself, that they have been 'downplayed' (much like the Tsunami deaths).

For one thing, 2/3rds of the way into the 'campaign' I recall Toxin boasting of 3000+ people killed. Then Amnesty International and other like organisation piped up and he decided to stop announcing figures. Then, amazingly, when the campaign ended a month later the figures were even lower than previously announced--------------> 2500

What a joke.

Does anyone need a better reason for why Toxin hates NGO's?

And by 'subcontracted hitmen' I really do mean subcontracted hitmen. There are those that the police use to do hits and either pay them out or more likely turn a blind eye to their criminal activities as payment.

What really happened in 2003, IMHO, is that people who were on the wrong side of the powerbase or were non-affiliated drug dealers were the ones wiped clean.

And, to thsi case, this German looks like a heroin addict himself.

I wonder whether his 'work' with the 'drug authorities' didn't put him on the wrong side of some people and, if this wasn't an OD death,... he either narrowly averted a hit on himself and then was framed up, or was just framed up.

IA

PS. One of the only reasons a person goes to jail for heroin is if you buy off the wrong team or f.uck with the right one.

PSPS. I think this German will end up dead when this all dies down-probably a heroin overdose in prison (lots of it in ChiangMai prisons). He knows too much.

[sriracha john]

  this German looks like a heroin addict himself.

Congrats Alex! You win!!...

stupid comment of the day...

Writers / Poets / Journalists

William S. Burroughs (writer)

Max Cantor (journalist)

Samuel Taylor Coleridge (poet)

Wilkie Collins (writer)

Sigmund Freud (psychiatrist, writer)

John Keats (poet)

Jack Kerouac (writer)

Ken Kesey (writer)

Jack London (writer)

Friedrich Nietzsche (philosopher, writer)

Edgar Allan Poe (writer, poet)

Françoise Sagan (writer)

Sir Walter Scott (writer, poet)

Hubert Selby Jr. (writer)

Will Self (writer)

Jerry Stahl (writer)

Robert Louis Stevenson (writer)

Georg Trakl (poet)

Alexander Trocchi (writer)

William Wilberforce (writer, anti-slavery campaigner)

Artists / Painters

Jean-Michel Basquiat (artist)

Francis Picabia (painter)

Pablo Picasso (painter)

Santiago Rusiñol (painter)

Politicians / Rulers / Royals

Harry Anslinger (US director of the Bureau of Narcotics)

Marcus Aurelius (emperor, philosopher)

Otto von Bismarck (Prussian prince, German statesman)

Ulysses S. Grant (US president, general)

Hermann Göring (Nazi Reichsmarschall)

Joseph McCarthy (US senator)

Frank Murphy (US Supreme Court justice, Attorney General, governor of Michigan)

William Rehnquist (US Supreme Court justice)

Athletes / Olympians

Bobby Chacon (boxer)

Sonny Liston (boxer)

Joe Louis (boxer)

Todd Marinovich (football player)

Sugar Ray Robinson (boxer)

Barney Ross (boxer)

Other Celebrities

Howard Hughes (tycoon, film producer, aviator)

Dr. John S. Pemberton (chemist, inventor of Coca-Cola)

what do the above have in common???

The preceeding is a list of notable personalities who have been or are believed to have been addicted to heroin (or other opiates including prescription painkillers or tranquilizers) at some point during their lives.

Now then, what's this nonsense about how he "looks" like a heroin addict???

[IsaanAlex]

Congrats Alex! You win!!...

stupid comment of the day...

You fool.

The 'murdered' man, according to a translated article in this very thread,.... was apparently recently out of rehab and this German was 'apparently', at one time, a "civil employee of the thai police, working in fighting drugs."

My point was that he in fact looks like he was taking drugs and in fact the whole situation....has a serious drug angle to it...

And I say 'heroin' because this all happened in Chiang Mai, which is located in a 'region' well-known for opium production and trafficking.

And I stand by it; he does look like a junkie. A junkie who looks to have gotten himslef in a real bind...

And your list is irrelevant unless they are Germans who looks headed to the slammer or worse in Chiang Mai, Thailand due to getting mixed up in (1) drugs, (2) people who take or sell drugs, or (3) people who 'fight' (or sell) drugs....

IA

PS. Who do you think trafficks drugs in Chiang Mai-or Thailand in general? And how many farang civil employees are therein Thailand 'helping' the Thais fight drugs?

This whole story reeks...

Edited September 2, 2005 by IsaanAlex

[sriracha john]

Congrats Alex! You win!!...

stupid comment of the day...

The 'murdered' man, according to a translated article in this very thread,.... was apparently recently out of rehab and this German was 'apparently', at one time, a "civil employee of the thai police, working in fighting drugs."

My point was that he in fact looks like he was taking drugs and in fact the whole situation....has a serious drug angle to it...

And I stand by it; he does look like a junkie. A junkie who looks to have gotten himslef in a real bind...

IA

PS. Who do you think trafficks drugs in Chiang Mai-or Thailand in general? And how many farang civil employees are therein Thailand 'helping' the Thais fight drugs?

This whole story reeks...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree the whole story reeks... and there certainly might be a "drug angle", but I'm certainly not willing to speculate so wildly at this point as to what occured or say nonsense things like he looks like a junkie. I wouldn't expect anyone, including yourself, to look much different then him after spending the past 10 months in a Thai prison.