Veera Sentenced To Eight Years In Cambodian Jail

[lannarebirth]

And now according to today's Thai Rath newspaper they want to demolish the Khmer temple.

That's the best idea I've heard since this pissing contest started. Let's see if they want to fight over the rubble. Probably, the idiots!

[Tanaka]

Funny thing is, Arisman could be charged with a very similar offence, pity the Cambodian security apparatus is less effective at finding and jailing him. The Cambodian legal system is a joke really, so if you're going to play a high stakes game of crossing into disputed territory this is what you get.

8 Years for allegedly spying? How many years for being a Khmer Rouge leader accused of murdering thousands?

allegedly, : a highly placed policeman friend of mine said Arisman was dead

they say he was shot in Cambodia by his own reds to stop him turning when he was caught

If they could convince Thai authorities of that, they would stop looking for him. Smokescreen until his body is shown.

[lovelomsak]

I didn't mean to imply that I believed the Cambodian charges were posturing, rather that the context of who the guy was, where he was going, the intent of what he was doing, and the fact that he recorded it, possibly covertly, opens him up very easily to the accusation of espionage.

Not so covertly if it ended up on youtube with a video of him with a palmcorder in his hands. Ratree is also shown with a camera in this video.

But who was filming the two of them filming? How did that person escape a prison sentence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMwxh0zjX1M&feature=related

I can see how one might mistake the dry scrubland for dry scrubland and not the secret base it really is.

Maybe the person videoing was Cambodian

[Buchholz]

I didn't mean to imply that I believed the Cambodian charges were posturing, rather that the context of who the guy was, where he was going, the intent of what he was doing, and the fact that he recorded it, possibly covertly, opens him up very easily to the accusation of espionage.

Not so covertly if it ended up on youtube with a video of him with a palmcorder in his hands. Ratree is also shown with a camera in this video.

But who was filming the two of them filming? How did that person escape a prison sentence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMwxh0zjX1M&feature=related

I can see how one might mistake the dry scrubland for dry scrubland and not the secret base it really is.

Maybe the person videoing was Cambodian

OMG!... A double agent.

He was spying on the Thai side when the video begins?!?

Quick, sentence him to 8 years in prison.

[Crushdepth]

Entirely agree. Veera yanked the chain, and the dog bit back.

A pretty good summary.

[housepainter]

I take quiet satisfaction from the result and think it serves as a good example to leave such matters to the diplomatic service and Government to sort out at pre-planned meetings with their opposite number. If we as farangs get involved in this stuff we are deported. He interferes in another country's internal affairs and is imprisoned.

Where's the fire other than under his back side?

There is an eletist arrogance about Thais and how they conduct themselves around Bangkok, all motorcades, shut downs and me first. It certainly cuts no headway when you step abroad, especially where an autocrat rules in despotic fashion. He's had it coming and got it in spades. Which might come in handy if he's sentenced to hard labour. Then again for such spoilt brats any day's labour would be hard when life has revolved around Siam Paragon, the Golf Course and diner at 8.

Talking of 8 .........I personally hope it is a good long sentence to be served that can not be interferred with. You know the kind of thing that we'd be on the end of. A sentence that we'd have to serve and only by way of remission have it reduced. I can't see him making friends and influence any time soon. High -so has just become 'Hi, so?'

I hope he fades in to the back ground as he is what exactly? Prisoner of conscious hardly fits, dissident neither, political prisoner doesn't suit but criminal does. Maybe we'll see an invite from his yellow mates to Amnesty International to act on his behalf? A poor Thai imprisoned abroad. Correction: make that a rich Thai.

In point of fact make that a criminal. Pure and simple. A criminal locked up for a crime in another conutry. May be the Tv will run it's own 'Banged up abroad' programme, although with Thai corruption trying to oil the wheels of freedom it'd be better called 'Bunged Up Abroad'.

Still, he's at one of the finest Universities of Life and for once he'll have to keep his eyes open and his wits about him in order to survive, or rather graduate in one piece without wooden box or urn of ashes at the end of it.

I hope they've already lost the key.

[Seanextra]

Nelson says it best !

[tombkk]

A few years back a bunch of Iranian diplomats were expelled from the US for taking pics of bridges etc in NY. It always depends who you are, what you represent or are perceived as representing and where you are from.

Posturing

Precisely

Exactly, which is why it has nothing to do with the accuracy of Veera and Ratree's so-called espionage, hence the "trumped-up charge" statement earlier in the thread.

It's all about posturing by Hun Sen and nothing to do with spying, which is why 8 year and 6 year prison sentences are totally unjustified.

.

Buchholz, why are you defending these people? They asked for trouble and they got what they asked for.

In the video you posted in post #77, they clearly indicate the point at which they enter Cambodian territory. They knew what they were doing. They played with fire, and they got burned. I wonder whether you would defend Westeners clearly trying to enter Thai territory across a "green border" (i.e. not an official check-point) and getting arrested, or anybody taking pictures of an East-German military installation (marked or not) which would have put you in prison for more than eight years.

Yes, it probably (and maybe even certainly) has to do with Hun Sen flexing his muscles. But Veera and his entourage *knew* that this would happen, and they provoked it on purpose! It is very strange that you defend these people. They wanted the publicity, and now they pay the price. Not a surprising price, either.

If (for some reason) they are released from prison in Cambodia, I hope they get improsined in Thailand for causing great problems to Thailand and it's foreign affairs policies. They are certainly not Thai "patriotes" but have caused major troubles to Thailand.

[Buchholz]

A few years back a bunch of Iranian diplomats were expelled from the US for taking pics of bridges etc in NY. It always depends who you are, what you represent or are perceived as representing and where you are from.

Posturing

Precisely

Exactly, which is why it has nothing to do with the accuracy of Veera and Ratree's so-called espionage, hence the "trumped-up charge" statement earlier in the thread.

It's all about posturing by Hun Sen and nothing to do with spying, which is why 8 year and 6 year prison sentences are totally unjustified.

.

Buchholz, why are you defending these people? They asked for trouble and they got what they asked for.

In the video you posted in post #77, they clearly indicate the point at which they enter Cambodian territory. They knew what they were doing. They played with fire, and they got burned. I wonder whether you would defend Westeners clearly trying to enter Thai territory across a "green border" (i.e. not an official check-point) and getting arrested, or anybody taking pictures of an East-German military installation (marked or not) which would have put you in prison for more than eight years.

Yes, it probably (and maybe even certainly) has to do with Hun Sen flexing his muscles. But Veera and his entourage *knew* that this would happen, and they provoked it on purpose! It is very strange that you defend these people. They wanted the publicity, and now they pay the price. Not a surprising price, either.

If (for some reason) they are released from prison in Cambodia, I hope they get improsined in Thailand for causing great problems to Thailand and it's foreign affairs policies. They are certainly not Thai "patriotes" but have caused major troubles to Thailand.

Did East Germany have any military installations that one could wander into from West Germany on an afternoon stroll?

To repeat, punish them for their trespassing, but espionage? Sorry, it doesn't wash with the reality.

Footage of a dusty road and a small rural farming village with no military presence doesn't constitute spying. Nor does it qualify it as a "military base."

I'm not defending their actions, only pointing out the ridiculousness of their additional charges and their unjustified lengthy imprisonment, particularly that of co-defendant Ratree.

[tombkk]

Buchholz, why are you defending these people? They asked for trouble and they got what they asked for.

In the video you posted in post #77, they clearly indicate the point at which they enter Cambodian territory. They knew what they were doing. They played with fire, and they got burned. I wonder whether you would defend Westeners clearly trying to enter Thai territory across a "green border" (i.e. not an official check-point) and getting arrested, or anybody taking pictures of an East-German military installation (marked or not) which would have put you in prison for more than eight years.

Yes, it probably (and maybe even certainly) has to do with Hun Sen flexing his muscles. But Veera and his entourage *knew* that this would happen, and they provoked it on purpose! It is very strange that you defend these people. They wanted the publicity, and now they pay the price. Not a surprising price, either.

If (for some reason) they are released from prison in Cambodia, I hope they get improsined in Thailand for causing great problems to Thailand and it's foreign affairs policies. They are certainly not Thai "patriotes" but have caused major troubles to Thailand.

Did East Germany have any military installations that one could wander into from West Germany on an afternoon stroll?

To repeat, punish them for their trespassing, but espionage? Sorry, it doesn't wash with the reality.

Footage of a dusty road and a small rural farming village with no military presence doesn't constitute spying. Nor does it qualify it as a "military base."

I'm not defending their actions, only pointing out the ridiculousness of their additional charges and their unjustified lengthy imprisonment, particularly that of co-defendant Ratree.

You may or may not be getting the point. Have you ever considered the political nature of their actions rather than the legal points?

Are you a lawyer, or do you understand international politics? A lawyer might care about a dusty road, but in a political dimension this goes far beyond your line of argumentation.

That said, I might be out of this thread very soon.

[Seanextra]

Play with fire get burnt ? Simple some people must like getting burnt i guess.

[Buchholz]

Buchholz, why are you defending these people? They asked for trouble and they got what they asked for.

In the video you posted in post #77, they clearly indicate the point at which they enter Cambodian territory. They knew what they were doing. They played with fire, and they got burned. I wonder whether you would defend Westeners clearly trying to enter Thai territory across a "green border" (i.e. not an official check-point) and getting arrested, or anybody taking pictures of an East-German military installation (marked or not) which would have put you in prison for more than eight years.

Yes, it probably (and maybe even certainly) has to do with Hun Sen flexing his muscles. But Veera and his entourage *knew* that this would happen, and they provoked it on purpose! It is very strange that you defend these people. They wanted the publicity, and now they pay the price. Not a surprising price, either.

If (for some reason) they are released from prison in Cambodia, I hope they get improsined in Thailand for causing great problems to Thailand and it's foreign affairs policies. They are certainly not Thai "patriotes" but have caused major troubles to Thailand.

Did East Germany have any military installations that one could wander into from West Germany on an afternoon stroll?

To repeat, punish them for their trespassing, but espionage? Sorry, it doesn't wash with the reality.

Footage of a dusty road and a small rural farming village with no military presence doesn't constitute spying. Nor does it qualify it as a "military base."

I'm not defending their actions, only pointing out the ridiculousness of their additional charges and their unjustified lengthy imprisonment, particularly that of co-defendant Ratree.

You may or may not be getting the point. Have you ever considered the political nature of their actions rather than the legal points?

Are you a lawyer, or do you understand international politics? A lawyer might care about a dusty road, but in a political dimension this goes far beyond your line of argumentation.

That said, I might be out of this thread very soon.

I'm well aware of the political nature of the whole incident. I'm merely showing that both sides are escalating the situation by pointing out the farcical nature of their absurd charges. The group was wrong to enter Cambodia and Cambodia was wrong for throwing the book at them on trumped up charges. I condemn both entities.

I'd be curious as to what their lawyers actually did say in the case. Unfortunately, that nor any of the specifics of the charges have been reported on.

Also, unfortunately, it opens the arena of retaliation and as mentioned earlier, Cambodia has a lot more illegal entrants in Thailand rather than the reverse and thus has much more to lose, but that's the way Hun Sen has chosen to play it.

.

Edited February 2, 2011 by Buchholz

[mark2552]

I can hardly feel any sympathy for their accidently over stepping the boundaries; but then again, I hardly believe it was an accident.

Perhaps it was time for the Thais to get a taste of they own horsepucky for a change. They can sure dish it out; that is for sure!

Maybe they will handcuff them to their prison cell bars and leave them to rot like the Thai Police did to the Brit...

But then again, one is still reminded that behind all the modern facilities in Thailand (at least in Bangkok). they are still very much a 3rd world

country.

,My guess is the 8 year sentence will be used as a bargaining chip, maybe even for some of the cambodians who may be rotting in Thai prisons

here.

[mark2552]

In any event rest assured, any bargaing chips used on either side will come down to MONEY; the great Pain reliever.

[brahmburgers]

Hun Sen is such a poser. Mark my words: Hun Sen will release the nut soon in a big photo-op. The two nut grandstanders will probably wind up smiling and shaking hands. The Hun Sen will further burnish his image to the weak-mined masses as the great compassionate leader.

[metisdead]

One post removed:

31) All members are not allowed to quote news articles or material from bangkokpost.com or phuketwan inside topics on thaivisa.com. Posts containing quotes will be deleted from the forum. Links referring back to the sites are also not allowed and will be deleted.

[Buchholz]

More espionage against the "good government" of Hun Sen, except this time, it's homegrown... but it sounds like the charges are equally well justified:

Border priest held for spying

The chief priest of a pagoda in Preah Vihear province was arrested on charges of spying for Thailand after writing down the license plate of an RCAF vehicle that witnesses claim held a confiscated Buddhist statue. Chuk Som, police chief of Choam Ksan district’s Kantuot commune, said today that Toeun Pheap, 33, was arrested after writing down plate numbers of RCAF tanks, personnel carriers, and trucks that were stationed at the Svay Chrum pagoda.

Sao Yath, representative for villagers in Svay Chrum village, said that at his request, Toeun Pheap wrote down the number of the car that removed the Buddhist statue from the pagoda. He said the provocation was related to the authority’s order to local villagers in early January to leave their houses. Many villagers in Svay Chrum refused orders to leave their property to make way for tourist and commercial development projects led by Preah Vihear National Authority.

"It is just an accusation to put him in prison and force people to leave the village after we refused their deadline to vacate," Sao Yath says. "We do not serve Thailand. We wrote down a license plate to file a complaint, but the authority is using this to accuse us of wrongdoing and pressure us to comply with their orders," Sao Yath says.

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/2011013146491/National-news/border-priest-held-for-spying.html

Phnom Penh Post - January 31, 2011

.

Edited February 3, 2011 by Buchholz

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed from view.

[tombkk]

In any event rest assured, any bargaing chips used on either side will come down to MONEY; the great Pain reliever.

No. It's political currency that these bargaining chips hold. That's far more valuable than money, believe me.

[tombkk]

Buchholz, why are you defending these people? They asked for trouble and they got what they asked for.

In the video you posted in post #77, they clearly indicate the point at which they enter Cambodian territory. They knew what they were doing. They played with fire, and they got burned. I wonder whether you would defend Westeners clearly trying to enter Thai territory across a "green border" (i.e. not an official check-point) and getting arrested, or anybody taking pictures of an East-German military installation (marked or not) which would have put you in prison for more than eight years.

Yes, it probably (and maybe even certainly) has to do with Hun Sen flexing his muscles. But Veera and his entourage *knew* that this would happen, and they provoked it on purpose! It is very strange that you defend these people. They wanted the publicity, and now they pay the price. Not a surprising price, either.

If (for some reason) they are released from prison in Cambodia, I hope they get improsined in Thailand for causing great problems to Thailand and it's foreign affairs policies. They are certainly not Thai "patriotes" but have caused major troubles to Thailand.

Did East Germany have any military installations that one could wander into from West Germany on an afternoon stroll?

To repeat, punish them for their trespassing, but espionage? Sorry, it doesn't wash with the reality.

Footage of a dusty road and a small rural farming village with no military presence doesn't constitute spying. Nor does it qualify it as a "military base."

I'm not defending their actions, only pointing out the ridiculousness of their additional charges and their unjustified lengthy imprisonment, particularly that of co-defendant Ratree.

You may or may not be getting the point. Have you ever considered the political nature of their actions rather than the legal points?

Are you a lawyer, or do you understand international politics? A lawyer might care about a dusty road, but in a political dimension this goes far beyond your line of argumentation.

That said, I might be out of this thread very soon.

I'm well aware of the political nature of the whole incident. I'm merely showing that both sides are escalating the situation by pointing out the farcical nature of their absurd charges. The group was wrong to enter Cambodia and Cambodia was wrong for throwing the book at them on trumped up charges. I condemn both entities.

I'd be curious as to what their lawyers actually did say in the case. Unfortunately, that nor any of the specifics of the charges have been reported on.

Also, unfortunately, it opens the arena of retaliation and as mentioned earlier, Cambodia has a lot more illegal entrants in Thailand rather than the reverse and thus has much more to lose, but that's the way Hun Sen has chosen to play it.

.

Buchholz, cool down. You have no right to condemn anybody, you are a guest over here - of course, for some reason I assume that you are European.