Register Usufruct Or 30 Year Lease In Landoffice

[svenivan]

At dinner an hour ago my wife said that " the guy in the landoffice was very surprised that the farang did not bring any lawyear. He never seen that before ! "

We were to the landoffice yesterday to register an "usufruct" into the shinot for our house.

A "usufruct" is same same as a 30-year lease that you can register but a "usufruct" is much better.

"The principle of the right of usufruct is that it transfers the rights of possession, use, enjoyment and management from the owner to the usufructuary". And it is lifelong!!!!

This was from Thailand Law Online Click here!

Do not read too much and too long because then you suddenly pay 5 - 10 000 baht for some contract that you really do not need.

After about 5 years pf "Manyana" "Manyana" we finally went to the landoffice and registered the "usufruct".

We brought the shinot (we actually have 2 so we brought both of them), my wifes housepaper, my wifes ID-card and my passport. We had copies of housepaper, my wifes ID-card and 3 pages of my passport (page with the photo and name, page with current visa and page with last entry TM-card).

A very nice woman checked our papers and gave us a queue ticket. 30 minutes later we were sitting in front of a nice guy, answering a few question (he had to make the questions because there was no lawyear there and he thought we did not know what we were doing....).

After another 30 minutes we got the shinots back and now the "usufruct" was registered on them.

Very easy!

And the best the total cost was 130 baht!

So do not wait any longer, no more "Manyanas" !

[bifftastic]

Thanks for that, I will be doing the same thing when I visit next in May.

One question, what's the usufruct called in Thai?

Cheers,

Biff

[gotlost]

I did mine 5 years ago at the Land office and did not use a lawyer. All your doing is wasting good money for something you can do .

[bifftastic]

I did mine 5 years ago at the Land office and did not use a lawyer. All your doing is wasting good money for something you can do .

He didn't use a lawyer either

[villagefarang]

We did the same thing a couple years back at the urging of my wife. It sounds like your experience was as painless as ours was. Congratulations.

There are many who insist that a lawyer is necessary but I am happy with what we got without a lawyer.

[villagefarang]

Thanks for that, I will be doing the same thing when I visit next in May.

One question, what's the usufruct called in Thai?

Cheers,

Biff

Biff, I'm sure you have come up against the funny Thai spelling of ‘sap’ and here it is again where they use a TR combination instead of an S. How is your Thai progressing?

Edited February 1, 2011 by villagefarang

[bifftastic]

Thanks for that, I will be doing the same thing when I visit next in May.

One question, what's the usufruct called in Thai?

Cheers,

Biff

Biff, I'm sure you have come up against the funny Thai spelling of ‘sap’ and here it is again where they use a TR combination instead of an S. How is your Thai progressing?

Thanks for that, I was just struggling with that part!

so, excuse the transliteration, what I got was;

sit tee gep gin nai sap sin

for the first sentence....

Chai sin tee gep gin nai sap sin (struggling with the last bit, consonant cluster or implied vowel? But i shall prevail!)

[bifftastic]

Thanks for that, I will be doing the same thing when I visit next in May.

One question, what's the usufruct called in Thai?

Cheers,

Biff

Biff, I'm sure you have come up against the funny Thai spelling of 'sap' and here it is again where they use a TR combination instead of an S. How is your Thai progressing?

Thanks for that, I was just struggling with that part!

so, excuse the transliteration, what I got was;

sit tee gep gin nai sap sin

for the first sentence....

Chai sin tee gep gin nai sap sin (struggling with the last bit, consonant cluster or implied vowel? But i shall prevail!)

ok

Chai sit tee gep gin nai sap sin tee krop krong

[CDNinKS]

Very easy!

And the best the total cost was 130 baht!

Be thankful you are not in Hua Hin.......the same thing costs 10,000 baht in tea money

[brianmarinus]

Very easy!

And the best the total cost was 130 baht!

Be thankful you are not in Hua Hin.......the same thing costs 10,000 baht in tea money

hi!

I have had a look into this, and ask a litle bit around-and it looks like, it is a very good thing to do-but.

We have to be aware-if you have some children and so,who may have your belongings,when you paste away.

That day you die-all your rights disapear-the contract-usufruct-is no longer binding.

Just a reminder to you all about this-so you are aware of it.

brianmarinus.

[chang35baht]

That's the whole point of it Brian. So that nobody can kick you off the land/house that you have paid for for the rest of your remaining days/30 years, if you may be unfortunate enough to end your relationship with you loved one.

C35B.

[sceadugenga]

I assume the owner's heirs, possibly their children, or family in a childless relationship inherit when the usufruct beneficiary dies.

This will mean of course, if you move on to another relationship, any children produced won't be able to inherit.

Probably the best thing in this case would be to come to an arrangement with the heirs and sell the property and divide the money and start again.

[chang35baht]

Yes Scea, but in the first instance, after the usufruct(ee) dies, the property will fall back under the care of the person whos name is on the title deeds (I think).

C35B.

Edited February 2, 2011 by chang35baht

[bifftastic]

I guess it's not ideal for everyone. For me it seems ideal, the house will be inherited by my g/f's children anyway. I don't have anyone I want to leave anything to and it recognises me as having use of the house.

[sceadugenga]

Yes Scea, but in the first instance, after the usufruct(ee) dies, the property will fall back under the care of the person whos name is on the title deeds (I think).

C35B.

Ahh... I jumped to the conclusion that the plan was to protect farang from the fallout when wifey found out about the mia noi.

Should you out live your spouse it then stops the rellies booting you out into the snow.

[bifftastic]

Just thought I'd add this to the thread;

We just completed the purchase of a house up in Chiang Saen and Ms Tastic now has the Chanote, she tried to put my name on the title (in the form of an usufruct) in my absence, and was told I need to do it in person (no real surprise there) but it does seem that it won't be a problem at all, no lawyers needed, the land office weren't phased by the request and seemed to be aware of the process.

[klikster]

And the best the total cost was 130 baht!

You didn't have to pay any tax?

Mine was suggested by and completed by the Land Department officer who transferred our Chanode, but I believe the total was a bit more than Bt 1,000. I think I heard the word "Superficies". They made the change right away, but we had to wait until the following day to pick up the new (retyped) Chanode.

But you are right .. it was very easy and a bargain.

[villagefarang]

I seem to remember paying 75 baht in Thoeng for ours but the wife handles all the money, so I couldn’t swear to that.

[lannarebirth]

Yes Scea, but in the first instance, after the usufruct(ee) dies, the property will fall back under the care of the person whos name is on the title deeds (I think).

C35B.

Unless the usufructee giv es a 30 year lease to someone prior to their death. Yeah, they can do that.

[lannarebirth]

And the best the total cost was 130 baht!

You didn't have to pay any tax?

Mine was suggested by and completed by the Land Department officer who transferred our Chanode, but I believe the total was a bit more than Bt 1,000. I think I heard the word "Superficies". They made the change right away, but we had to wait until the following day to pick up the new (retyped) Chanode.

But you are right .. it was very easy and a bargain.

A superficies is different than a usufruct.

on Thursday, 04 November 2010.

Usufruct agreements under Thai law

Usufruct contract refers to the agreement and the right to use or occupy another person's real property for one's life or up to 30 years. under sections 1417 1428 of the Civil and Commercial Code. A right of usufruct in Thailand gives the right to use and manage a real estate property during a person’s life time. The right in the real estate property exists so long as the usufructuary (the holder of the usufruct right) is alive. After his or her death the real estate property reverts back to the owner. A usufruct is often given to a family member such as a foreign spouse with the idea that a foreign spouse is protected in the event of death of the Thai spouse (registered owner). The usufruct gives the right to the foreign spouse to remain in the property upon the death of his or her Thai spouse.

Thursday, 04 November 2010.

Introduction to the real property right of superficies

Right of superficies (sections 1410 to 1416 Civil and Commercial Code) in Thailand is a civil law real estate right. In France it is called 'droit de superficie', in Germany it is called 'Erbbaurecht' and in the Netherlands it is called 'recht van opstal'. The principle of the right of superficies in these countries is the same; it grants the superficiarius (meaning the person granted the right of superficies) the right to build and own buildings, structures or plantations upon land belonging to another person. With the right of superficies the owner of a plot of land grants to another person the right to use his land for building.

http://www.samuiforsale.com/

Edited February 8, 2011 by lannarebirth

[svenivan]

Unless the usufructee giv es a 30 year lease to someone prior to their death. Yeah, they can do that.

No, they cannot !

If you read what they say on the page I linked to in the OP you can see that " In practice a foreigner, as the usufructuary, can only rent out the property under usufruct for periods not exceeding 3 years at the time (unless he is able to register the contract for hire exceeding 3 years with the land department)."

And " Besides several practical legal objections, the land offices will refuse registration of the contract for hire as foreigners are not allowed to control and manage land in Thailand. The land offices in Thailand make in this matter a distinction between the rights of a foreign or Thai national as the manager of the real estate property under usufruct."

[lannarebirth]

Unless the usufructee giv es a 30 year lease to someone prior to their death. Yeah, they can do that.

No, they cannot !

If you read what they say on the page I linked to in the OP you can see that " In practice a foreigner, as the usufructuary, can only rent out the property under usufruct for periods not exceeding 3 years at the time (unless he is able to register the contract for hire exceeding 3 years with the land department)."

And " Besides several practical legal objections, the land offices will refuse registration of the contract for hire as foreigners are not allowed to control and manage land in Thailand. The land offices in Thailand make in this matter a distinction between the rights of a foreign or Thai national as the manager of the real estate property under usufruct."

I took that advice from Sunbelt, who may be wrong, but they are reiterating it here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/448227-usufruct-question-for-sunbelt/page__view__findpost__p__4258310

today.

[bifftastic]

I saw that thread too and several people did, in fact, point out that the case Sunbelt were quoting was between Thai people. So it may indeed be the case that the land office would not register a lease from a foreign usufruct holder. Apparently leases of under 3 years don't need to be registered?

I'm just finding out that land offices have their own interpretation of the law, which can result in 'mai dai' and a refusal to comply!