Farang Child In Thai School

[bobthedog]

Hi all,

In your opinion, at what age will a child (who is not yet speaking the Thai language) still be able to attend and follow the thai educational system in a thai private school. My thai wife told me, that the children in thai schools are often tested, so it might be difficult for a non-thai speaking child to catch up. Let's say a private teacher is hired a couple of hours every day after school, to support the child in catching up with it's thai class mates. Is it mission impossible or will the child catch up at any age (say 7, 10, 12 yo.)?

[Mugg]

I have read Richard Barrows site and many of his articles for awhile now. I like to share his site with you and perhaps he will give you some great info. http://www.thaischoollife.com/

[ExpatJ]

I would say putting a child into a school where he/she cant speak or understand the language of tuition is borderline abusive and damaging to the childs development- poor kid will be completely lost and not able to understand why they are there.

[Mario2008]

The younger they are the quicker and better they will pick-up another language.

Some schools will have a mini-English program, with some subjects taught in English.

[MikeyIdea]

A child who is not speaking and understanding any Thai cannot attend and follow the Thai primary school educational system, that possibility stops in the last year of kindergarten. A child who's starting to get the hang of the speaking bit is a totally different matter.

What is catching up? Thai parents value academic knowledge so Thai schools push it. Thai kids are generally better at memorising than western kids and the western kid will never be able to catch up in that area if they start after kindergarten. Ability is a totally different matter. I'll define catching up as - still have less Thai specific knowledge in quite a few areas but be better in other areas, an impossible to calculate average equal sort of

I assume 2 things; The child is getting the hang of speaking a bit before starting. The child gets a few hours of private help per day. For how long is impossible to say, it's as much up to the girl as the age. Then...

It's still possible up to 15, the child will still not have caught up by the time she is 18. Difficult time for the girl, very difficult. This girl need a minimum 4 month intensive course in Thai reading and writing (minimum 3 hours per day) before starting school, 6 months better still. Reading and writing skills are very important, she must master them fairly quickly to succeed. Reading and writing skills are the key to success

If she starts at the age of 12, then she will almost have caught up by the age of 15. She will easily have the ability to excel in some subjects by the time she's 14 - 15. Minimum 3 month intensive course in Thai reading and writing (minimum 3 hours per day) before starting school. Reading and writing skills are again the key to success. Not a difficult task to achieve with proper planning

If she starts at the age of 9, then she will pretty easily have caught up by the age of 12. Still minimum 3 month intensive course in Thai reading and writing (minimum 3 hours per day) before starting school. Reading and writing skills are still the key to success... Easy task to achieve

There are many schools that do part English taught education, even some government schools have that. I would strongly suggest to enroll the kid in that, it will make the girl the best in the class in something (contrast to struggeling in almost everything), that will be good help for her

Kids are amazing, I don't expect any major problems even at the age of 12 with proper prep-work (reading and writing). Very good opportunity for the child to widen her knowledge

How old is the child now?

[bobthedog]

Thanks for your comments so far!

MikeyIdea: We have two children, a girl who is nearly 11 and a boy who is 7. As we live in Scandinavia, the children only speak a bit of English (to the level of what they've learned in school so far), which I assume might be a further challenge, tranferring them to a thai private school. Both of our children go to a private school where we live now, and they are both doing good. They are trained a bit every day by my wife in reading, writing and speaking thai, but they are both only at the very beginner level.

When you write, "If she starts at the age of 12, then she will almost have caught up by the age of 15", do you mean by this, that she will have to move down three classes, if starting in a thai school, or will she just be enrolled in a class matching her age, and being "left behind" compared to her class mates for three years?

Anyway, I really like your idea of hiring a private teacher a few months in advance of starting in the thai school system, so the children have a fundamental knowledge of the language.

Edited February 2, 2011 by bobthedog

[endure]

If it's going to be so difficult ('borderline abusive' according to some) how come the Thai children that come to live in England seem to pick English up so quickly? It's not as if English is a particularly easy language to learn.

[ExpatJ]

Putting a 7 and 12 year old who cant speak thai in a thai school will be horrible for them- they will hate it i imagine- who wouldnt? Especially given that few of the thai kids will speak english (if any).

I guess its a lack of finances which doesnt allow you to put them in an English school (NIST, St Andrews etc) - if not they should be your first choice. If its lack of funds then i would suggest giving them intensive thai language lessons BEFORE you put them in the thai school- so that when they join they can at least have basic conversations.

[MikeyIdea]

Thanks for your comments so far!

MikeyIdea: We have two children, a girl who is nearly 11 and a boy who is 7. As we live in Scandinavia, the children only speak a bit of English (to the level of what they've learned in school so far), which I assume might be a further challenge, tranferring them to a thai private school. Both of our children go to a private school where we live now, and they are both doing good. They are trained a bit every day by my wife in reading, writing and speaking thai, but they are both only at the very beginner level.

When you write, "If she starts at the age of 12, then she will almost have caught up by the age of 15", do you mean by this, that she will have to move down three classes, if starting in a thai school, or will she just be enrolled in a class matching her age, and being "left behind" compared to her class mates for three years?

Anyway, I really like your idea of hiring a private teacher a few months in advance of starting in the thai school system, so the children have a fundamental knowledge of the language.

There is no moving down, the Thai educational system still has standing still though (do the grade again) and it is used. That's why reading and writing is so important. Without proper prep work, the kids would simply have to do the grade again

The boy of 7 is easy, don't worry about him, he will adapt so quickly that you wonder if he really spent his first years where he did. 7 year old Thai kids (from the little bit better off middle class) can read and write 2 languages by the time they start grade 1 so don't skip on the reading and writing ability, he needs it because everybody else can already do it

Your wife is Thai, perfect. Rule at home: Wife always speaks Thai with the kids, they will pick good understanding up in 3 - 4 months if you and the wife agree to implement and are rather strict on this. Wife speaks, the kids don't have to in the beginning. Understanding first, then speaking, that will help pronunciation too. Mummy and Daddy speaks only English is good, this may sound funny / strange but it really really helps the kids to learn languages very well. You'll soon get used to it. I'm Swedish, haven't spoken any Swedish at home for 20 years, takes a couple of months to get used to, then it's nothing Thai students in private schools are bad at English, doesn't take much to beat the competition. I can highly recommend bilingual schools or the dual language programmes

The 11 year old girl can easily do this too but prep work in reading and writing is crucial - I can't emphasise this enough. She could perhaps be allowed to join the class for 10 year olds but no lower than that (bad idea though). Thai education is strictly academic and children are evaluated on academic knowledge. Perhaps the school and teachers can be interested in helping her a bit extra but not that much. Thailand is not a good environment for the disadvantaged in the first place and your child is certainly not one either. The main bulk of extra support needed is supposed to come from you (via private tutors). The first year will be tough / difficult because reading and writing is such an important part, the second year will be easy

You're a bit late if you plan the 11 year old to join in June this year, is this the plan? Reading and writing... I suggest stop most home work with the 11 year old and get her on 2 hour per pay reading and writing Thai school days instead if that's the plan. Still doable. I think moving down one grade is a BAD work around, she has good basics and will benefit from a higher learning ability (but lower memorisation ability), she'll excel soon enough, being a grade behind sort of will be demoralising for her. Also interest mispatch

To succeed you need to talk and discuss with the kids, get them to agree, ensure them that they easily can do it, get them to want, get them enthusiastic about the change - kids who really want can easily adapt and perform. If one of the kids are negative or unhappy with the move, then that kid will probably also struggle a bit in his new environment

I think your kids will like the change a lot (once they get over the difficult first 6 months to a year). Good opportunity for them to widen their abilities and vision.

Good Luck

Michael

[MikeyIdea]

Putting a 7 and 12 year old who cant speak thai in a thai school will be horrible for them- they will hate it i imagine- who wouldnt? Especially given that few of the thai kids will speak english (if any).

I guess its a lack of finances which doesnt allow you to put them in an English school (NIST, St Andrews etc) - if not they should be your first choice. If its lack of funds then i would suggest giving them intensive thai language lessons BEFORE you put them in the thai school- so that when they join they can at least have basic conversations.

I totally agree on that reading and writing and understanding needs to be pretty good before starting, speaking need to be decent but it doesn't have to be good when they start really. So easy to pick up if they just have basic communication skills when they start

I would recommend against putting a 7 year old in an international school. He would be so disadvantaged for the future, missing learning and understanding the whole Asian bit. The kid will finish university in 15 years time and in 35 years time, then he will still only be half way through his working life. Giving our kids what we as parents got is going to be inadequate in 20 years time.

Finances or not, I would never want my child to do both primary and secondary school in an international school environment (I recommend half bilingual / half international). True, western and international schools are better academically but I do not interview and select people based on academic skills. If they don't understand Asian style (understand is having lived and experienced it, not studied it) then I don't want them because they're difficult to work with in an Asian environment. In short, there are better choices to choose from. "Pure westerners" are for full manager position and up only - they have assistant managers and supervisors to deal with staff. This is how we think at the multi national in Bangkok where I work today anyway

This is how I see 20 years from now

Second language needs to be fluent Mandarin (spoken and written). And perfect written and spoken Thai if the person is going to work in Thailand of course. English will just be a prerequisite, no advantage, too many to choose from. Western education or international schools in Asia good of course but only if Asian languages and understanding is there. Again, simply too many to choose from. I am talking from a multinational company perspective, we always have too many good to choose from when we need to recruit. I don't sit interviewing every day of course but sometimes I do

Mandarin too Bob

Edited February 3, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[ExpatJ]

Putting a 7 and 12 year old who cant speak thai in a thai school will be horrible for them- they will hate it i imagine- who wouldnt? Especially given that few of the thai kids will speak english (if any).

I guess its a lack of finances which doesnt allow you to put them in an English school (NIST, St Andrews etc) - if not they should be your first choice. If its lack of funds then i would suggest giving them intensive thai language lessons BEFORE you put them in the thai school- so that when they join they can at least have basic conversations.

I totally agree on that reading and writing and understanding needs to be pretty good before starting, speaking need to be decent but it doesn't have to be good when they start really. So easy to pick up if they just have basic communication skills when they start

I would recommend against putting a 7 year old in an international school. He would be so disadvantaged for the future, missing learning and understanding the whole Asian bit. The kid will finish university in 15 years time and in 35 years time, then he will still only be half way through his working life. Giving our kids what we as parents got is going to be inadequate in 20 years time.

Finances or not, I would never want my child to do both primary and secondary school in an international school environment (I recommend half bilingual / half international). True, western and international schools are better academically but I do not interview and select people based on academic skills. If they don't understand Asian style (understand is having lived and experienced it, not studied it) then I don't want them because they're difficult to work with in an Asian environment. In short, there are better choices to choose from. "Pure westerners" are for full manager position and up only - they have assistant managers and supervisors to deal with staff. This is how we think at the multi national in Bangkok where I work today anyway

This is how I see 20 years from now

Second language needs to be fluent Mandarin (spoken and written). And perfect written and spoken Thai if the person is going to work in Thailand of course. English will just be a prerequisite, no advantage, too many to choose from. Western education or international schools in Asia good of course but only if Asian languages and understanding is there. Again, simply too many to choose from. I am talking from a multinational company perspective, we always have too many good to choose from when we need to recruit. I don't sit interviewing every day of course but sometimes I do

Mandarin too Bob

Agree on the importance of learning Mandarin. I also agree that if your goal is for your kids to stay and work in Thailand and work in large companies at a level below the expats (full managers as you say) , then a local school will be fine. But personally i want my kids to aim for the full manager expat posts that you mentioned- those are the posts where a good international school experience followed by top university are required. Sure, thai school, followed by working in Thailand in a assistant manager post is fine, but why not aim higher for your kids? Kids will also struggle to get into a top tier international university if they have only been to a thai school...

[tonititan]

I agree that it depends on your definition of "catching up." If you mean being able to socialize with peers, participate in school, and in general, "get by" in school......then yeah, maybe a child could catch up in a year or two. When kids obtain these social language skills, it sure looks like they've picked up the language quickly. But have they really "picked it up?" If you're talking about the child being proficient in the language for academic purposes, truly understanding and participating in the curriculum, and using Thai for higher-level cognitive tasks, then it will most likely take much longer. There's research in the field of 2nd language acquisition that shows that while you may be able to acquire social language in 1-2 years, it takes at least 5-7 years to develop academic language. And that is in an "optimal school environment" - a lot of schools and teachers are not optimal. (For a good place to start in looking at this research, look at the BICS-CALP model).

Personally, I wouldn't want my child to merely "get by," I would want her to excel to the best of her abilities. Having worked in schools in various countries, I've also seen how isolating it usually is for the new student who doesn't speak the language. So if at all possible, I probably would not place an 8, 10, or 12 year old in a school that uses a different language unless the child already has a foundation in that language. They would just be missing too much, especially in the first year or two when they are trying to learn the language, while missing out on academic instruction that they cannot understand.

It's not an easy solution. Do you think you'll stay in Thailand forever, go back to Scandinavia, or possibly go to a new country? And do you envision your kids going to university in Thailand, your home country, or somewhere else/ I would recommend really thinking about those things before you make your decision. If you think you'll stay in Thailand forever, and your kids will most likely attend a Thai university, then obviously it's a good idea for your kids to be fluent in Thai. However, I fear that dumping them straight into an-all Thai school would be too difficult, so maybe the suggestion you already got for a bilingual program (or a Thai school with an English program....since your kids already know some English) would be good, because at least your kids know some English. Maybe as their Thai starts to get better than their English, they could transition to a Thai school. Or, if you want to go with an all-Thai school, I second the suggestion to get them some intensive Thai lessons (not just conversational Thai, but academic Thai) before they start school. This will lessen the disadvantage they will be at when starting school. If you think you'll end up in a 3rd country where your kids will most likely end up learning in English, or if you might like your child to end up at an English-speaking university, then it's probably a good idea to foster the English now, and it's not necessarily to the kids' benefit to learn in Thai for just a few years. An international school may be best. If you think you'll go back to Scandinavia some day, well that's even trickier, since the kids most likely won't continue their education in Thai there, but they might not study in English either.

I think that the most important thing to do is make sure that your kids have at least ONE strong language - a language in which they are fluent, can communicate effectively, can use as their point of reference, and have advanced academic knowledge. Speaking from a language development perspective, the worst thing would be for the kids to have a little bit of Thai, a little bit of English, and a little bit of your native language, but not a lot of any one language. Those are the kids who seem to struggle the most throughout school, university, and possibly life.

Best of luck to you and your family as you make these tough decisions.

[tonititan]

I also agree that if your goal is for your kids to stay and work in Thailand and work in large companies at a level below the expats (full managers as you say) , then a local school will be fine.

You beat me to it as I was typing out my long post. Agreed!

[MikeyIdea]

I also agree that if your goal is for your kids to stay and work in Thailand and work in large companies at a level below the expats (full managers as you say) , then a local school will be fine.

You beat me to it as I was typing out my long post. Agreed!

Takes time to write long posts

I mean bilingual school when I talk about local, not Thai regardless of if it is a private one or not.

Full managers are never recruited, they grow from within the company, usually via short-term assignments abroad first, senior management group can occasionally be recruited though

Good international school and top international university (if they do not have the obligatory understanding of Asian culture) can never get in unless they work somewhere else until they're ready for a senior management position. HQ in Lausanne OK or Europe is OK to get in of course, but who wants to work in Switzerland or Germany? Waiting for an opportunity to move to Asia that may never come...

That is how it works in the American multi national in Bangkok that I work for anyway

Edited February 3, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[ExpatJ]

I also agree that if your goal is for your kids to stay and work in Thailand and work in large companies at a level below the expats (full managers as you say) , then a local school will be fine.

You beat me to it as I was typing out my long post. Agreed!

Takes time to write long posts

I mean bilingual school when I talk about local, not Thai regardless of if it is a private one or not.

Full managers are never recruited, they grow from within the company, usually via short-term assignments abroad first, senior management group can occasionally be recruited though

Good international school and top international university (if they do not have the obligatory understanding of Asian culture) can never get in unless they work somewhere else until they're ready for a senior management position. HQ in Lausanne OK or Europe is OK to get in of course, but who wants to work in Switzerland or Germany?

That is how it works in the American multi national in Bangkok that I work for anyway

Yes, for almost all of the good expat posts in Bangkok the people in them have been working for the company in their home country for several years normally.

We all try to do our best for our kids within our means- but i think its fair to say if we can afford it we would always choose to put our kids in an expensive international school over a local thai school every time...

[MikeyIdea]

I also agree that if your goal is for your kids to stay and work in Thailand and work in large companies at a level below the expats (full managers as you say) , then a local school will be fine.

You beat me to it as I was typing out my long post. Agreed!

Takes time to write long posts

I mean bilingual school when I talk about local, not Thai regardless of if it is a private one or not.

Full managers are never recruited, they grow from within the company, usually via short-term assignments abroad first, senior management group can occasionally be recruited though

Good international school and top international university (if they do not have the obligatory understanding of Asian culture) can never get in unless they work somewhere else until they're ready for a senior management position. HQ in Lausanne OK or Europe is OK to get in of course, but who wants to work in Switzerland or Germany?

That is how it works in the American multi national in Bangkok that I work for anyway

Yes, for almost all of the good expat posts in Bangkok the people in them have been working for the company in their home country for several years normally.

We all try to do our best for our kids within our means- but i think its fair to say if we can afford it we would always choose to put our kids in an expensive international school over a local thai school every time...

Local Thai school absolutely agree with you

IMO - In an expensive international school from grade 1 to grade 12? Nope - 6 years in a bilingual school, 6 years in international, Mandarin as 3rd language all the time is ideal I think. University abroad is good IF my daughter wants it, I should not be the one deciding that

I get more tired being a father here than I would have in Europe somewhere, I am glad I came to Asia and got my eyes opened up for me regarding what I need to do as a father

Edited February 3, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[Firelily]

I've seen lots of kids aged 5-7 starting to learn Thai at our school and over the years I've heard about their progress.

The crucial factor seems to be how much support they are getting at home - reading, speaking, writing Thai, expanding their vocabulary, reviewing homework. Without Thai spoken in the family or with friends, the whole thing just tends to hang in the air for them. A tutor helps but cannot be expected to do magic.

Personally, I would not put a kid with zero Thai into a Thai school, bilingual or not, private or not, beyond grade 1 (age 7), unless they are very talented. If they are struggling with reading and writing in their native language, forget it, they won't be able to pick up Thai writing starting 3 years behind. If they haven't even started reading and writing in their native language (some countries only start reading and writing with kids aged 7), it would be extremely difficult too to work out the basic concepts of blending and segmenting in a foreign language. Not to mention potential self-esteem problems if the child is shy and not very sociable to start with.

Even the whole Thai concept of "sit on your bum and listen to the teacher for 7 periods a day" may be too much to handle. Does the school system where they grew up have 7 periods a day filled with frontal teaching, reading, writing and other bookwork, with minimal project work, group work or creative activities? Can the kids adjust to monotonous days, or do they tend to be very active, outspoken, opinionated? This adjustment may be extremely difficult too. The Thai system favours those cute little boys and girls who don't ask too many questions, work quietly and neatly, don't squirm on their chairs, and soak up data like a sponge.

Also, Thailand simply does not have a school systems with lots of immigrants and lots of experience with addressing their needs - in England or the US teachers would know what to do with a 12-year-old who speaks absolutely no English, there are systems and materials in place, whereas the Thai teachers have no clue.

[MikeyIdea]

I've seen lots of kids aged 5-7 starting to learn Thai at our school and over the years I've heard about their progress.

The crucial factor seems to be how much support they are getting at home

***

The Thai system favours those cute little boys and girls who don't ask too many questions, work quietly and neatly, don't squirm on their chairs, and soak up data like a sponge.

**

Also, Thailand simply does not have a school systems with lots of immigrants and lots of experience with addressing their needs - in England or the US teachers would know what to do with a 12-year-old who speaks absolutely no English, there are systems and materials in place, whereas the Thai teachers have no clue.

Very good post Firelily, 3 extremely important areas pointed out. I love the sentence in bold, nothing like starting the day laughing out loud. It is very true. The whole post you did is excellent

Another thing about career etc. - I work for an American multinational, locally hired, assistant manager, we have had presence in AP for 25+ years now - represented in almost every country in Asia now (except Afghanistan, Laos etc). I came in through the doors in Bangkok first time as a consultant back in 1996. I see a clear trend. The markets were run with twice as many expat American, European or Australian full managers 15 years ago as they are now. The whole Asia Pacific region is the same. We very clearly favour recruitment in-house and we clearly favour "local" Asia. Local = any race / mix with minimum part local upbringing and perfect written and spoken local language – not talking about western upbringing with degree in South-East Asian studies whatever and written and spoken local language here

The most common career path is local Asian recruited as supervisor or assistant manager, mentored for 2 - 6 years, then STA 1 year (short time assignment), then promoted to grade 12. Then there's a 50/50 between recruit local Asians from companies like PWC, Deloite, 2 - 3 years then STA and - Asia assignment for western manager from Europe, America or Asia. The westerners coming to Asia are always pretty senior – they have done the main bulk of their career in Europe (Australia is a little bit of an exception for us, part of AP). The senior management team has the same trend, only have 2 westerners now, haven't had a western GM since early 2000

I think this trend will stay, there are sooo many very talented "local" Asians to choose from, why choose someone who doesn't have full understanding of the 2 cultures? The cost is more or less the same as westerners but they work smoother and more efficiently here

Edited February 4, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[tonititan]

Another thing about career etc. - I work for an American multinational, locally hired, assistant manager, we have had presence in AP for 25+ years now - represented in almost every country in Asia now (except Afghanistan, Laos etc). I came in through the doors in Bangkok first time as a consultant back in 1996. I see a clear trend. The markets were run with twice as many expat American, European or Australian full managers 15 years ago as they are now. The whole Asia Pacific region is the same. We very clearly favour recruitment in-house and we clearly favour "local" Asia. Local = any race / mix with minimum part local upbringing and perfect written and spoken local language – not talking about western upbringing with degree in South-East Asian studies whatever and written and spoken local language here

The most common career path is local Asian recruited as supervisor or assistant manager, mentored for 2 - 6 years, then STA 1 year (short time assignment), then promoted to grade 12. Then there's a 50/50 between recruit local Asians from companies like PWC, Deloite, 2 - 3 years then STA and - Asia assignment for western manager from Europe, America or Asia. The westerners coming to Asia are always pretty senior – they have done the main bulk of their career in Europe (Australia is a little bit of an exception for us, part of AP). The senior management team has the same trend, only have 2 westerners now, haven't had a western GM since early 2000

I think this trend will stay, there are sooo many very talented "local" Asians to choose from, why choose someone who doesn't have full understanding of the 2 cultures? The cost is more or less the same as westerners but they work smoother and more efficiently here

This may all be true, but I think it's important to keep in mind that when it comes to careers, there's a lot more out there than being managers for large companies. This guy's kids are 7 & 11. It's way to early to know which career they will choose, and with some careers, it might make more sense to be educated in a western culture/school. Unless I missed something, I didn't notice him say that he was necessarily grooming his kids for careers as top managers.

[MikeyIdea]

Another thing about career etc. - I work for an American multinational, locally hired, assistant manager, we have had presence in AP for 25+ years now - represented in almost every country in Asia now (except Afghanistan, Laos etc). I came in through the doors in Bangkok first time as a consultant back in 1996. I see a clear trend. The markets were run with twice as many expat American, European or Australian full managers 15 years ago as they are now. The whole Asia Pacific region is the same. We very clearly favour recruitment in-house and we clearly favour "local" Asia. Local = any race / mix with minimum part local upbringing and perfect written and spoken local language – not talking about western upbringing with degree in South-East Asian studies whatever and written and spoken local language here

The most common career path is local Asian recruited as supervisor or assistant manager, mentored for 2 - 6 years, then STA 1 year (short time assignment), then promoted to grade 12. Then there's a 50/50 between recruit local Asians from companies like PWC, Deloite, 2 - 3 years then STA and - Asia assignment for western manager from Europe, America or Asia. The westerners coming to Asia are always pretty senior – they have done the main bulk of their career in Europe (Australia is a little bit of an exception for us, part of AP). The senior management team has the same trend, only have 2 westerners now, haven't had a western GM since early 2000

I think this trend will stay, there are sooo many very talented "local" Asians to choose from, why choose someone who doesn't have full understanding of the 2 cultures? The cost is more or less the same as westerners but they work smoother and more efficiently here

This may all be true, but I think it's important to keep in mind that when it comes to careers, there's a lot more out there than being managers for large companies. This guy's kids are 7 & 11. It's way to early to know which career they will choose, and with some careers, it might make more sense to be educated in a western culture/school. Unless I missed something, I didn't notice him say that he was necessarily grooming his kids for careers as top managers.

Agree, being a manager is a nightmare if the personality to support working in that position is not there. I am perfectly happy where I am, my problem is that I don't want to grow - because I feel that the guys in higher positions, well, they simply have so good personalities that I would have real problems competing with them. It's not about knowledge, it's about EQ, SQ, personality and the ability that the personality give.

We need to teach our kids when enough is enough