Chiang Mai Court Sentenced Akha Hill Tribe Man To Life For Murder Of British Composer David Crisp

[LingLek]

Left out of this sad tale is some actual background on Awe Ye Ping. Ok, so he was 22 years old and the 56 year old deceased would take regularly select him for sexual activity. There is a brief mention of the condemned young man's drug use. But, there is nothing about this kid as a human being. Doesn't anyone want to know why a kid could be driven to a murder like this, why he had no problem killing someone? Is it more convenient to believe that it was because of some dirty dishes?

What's missing from this story and a few of the other news items is more detail about the condemned and the two other young male prostitutes. No mention of the influence of years of abuse and exploitation. These 3 young men were impoverished, uneducated and in the case of one, a drug addict and were working as prostitutes. When young people are exploited and abused is it any wonder why they don't place a value on life? Years of being exploited usually lead to a manifestation of violence. These 3 young men are the face of prostitution in Thailand. I suppose that's too unpleasant for some to consider. Instead, we get a story that's politically correct.

I will get slammed for being insensitive and cruel. However, am I to believe that the deceased was motivated by altruistic concern for these 3 young men? Or, is the truth of the story that this was just another foreigner in Thailand taking advantage of destitute refugees that picked the boy who's psyche had reached the point of no return? Mr. Crisp chose to take advantage of vulnerable young men and he paid the price.

It is unfortunate that Mr. Crisp died, but one thing is certain. Mr. Crisp won't be exploiting marginalized destitute refugees anymore.Yea, yea, I'm so insensitive.

I'm sorry, I've seen some of these kids and so many of them are seriously screwed up courtesy of the sex trade and foreigners that have a wonderful public personna, but are evil incarnate when out of sight.

Yes it could of being dirty dishes, Asians make a big deal about saving face! On the other hand there is very little help for the mentaly ill in Thailand, and of course being a prostitute is a choice!

You appear not to have understood geriatrick's point about the context of exploitation... And you think being a prostitute's a choice?

[LingLek]

I will get slammed for being insensitive and cruel.

No you'll get slammed for being an opinionated windbag who thinks that having acquaintances who are homosexual makes you an expert on the homosexual condition. You're just someone with an opinion.

I totally agree. What an opinionated, ego inflated windbag.

All the prostitutes (they are known as working girls/boys) have made their choices long before the occasional visitor from overseas comes to spend his money and time with them. Most do it voluntarily, whilst others are encouraged by their parents. It is not seen as bad, as in western society otherwise places like Chiang Mai, Phuket, Pattaya etc would be closed down.

There is one main point here - in all societies MURDER IS BAD. This convicted person was a murderer, I hope he suffers in jail and I hope they catch the other accomplices. Oh and I am not the usual 'hang 'em; bomb 'em' poster you get on this forum.

And your opinions are not opinionated? The claim that prostitution's a choice is an opinion, an ill-informed one too. You really think that Ning wakes up one morning and says, 'Hmm, Mom, I've been thinking what do you think of me abandoning school and that plan to be a physician or lawyer and head for the bars of Pattaya or Pat Pong instead? Terrific prospects and I might even get to be a Mama San one day.' A choice involves choices, credible alternatives, usually only found amongst those with other equivalent opportunities in life. I don't know what sort of people you know, but the farmers and workers I know do think prostitution IS bad. And as you rightly, if unwittingly point out, parents do put pressure on their children (not to be a prostitute but to get a well-paying job to help them out). The choice here is: do I obey Mom and quit school (which Mom pays for) or not?

[softgeorge]

I will get slammed for being insensitive and cruel.

No you'll get slammed for being an opinionated windbag who thinks that having acquaintances who are homosexual makes you an expert on the homosexual condition. You're just someone with an opinion.

I totally agree. What an opinionated, ego inflated windbag.

All the prostitutes (they are known as working girls/boys) have made their choices long before the occasional visitor from overseas comes to spend his money and time with them. Most do it voluntarily, whilst others are encouraged by their parents. It is not seen as bad, as in western society otherwise places like Chiang Mai, Phuket, Pattaya etc would be closed down.

There is one main point here - in all societies MURDER IS BAD. This convicted person was a murderer, I hope he suffers in jail and I hope they catch the other accomplices. Oh and I am not the usual 'hang 'em; bomb 'em' poster you get on this forum.

That is the most ridiculous statement that I have ever heard. There was a story here a few days ago about a Canadian man sentenced to 25 yrs goal for soliciting pedophilles to come to Thailand and have sex with 4 yr old children. Did these children make the concious desion to enter the sex industry? This case I mention is not isolated. These children will spend years being abused by aldults until they have outgrown thier pupose and are simply disposed of by the pimps. They would not have recieved any form of education and would have been seen only as an object and a commodity. Thier entire life as they know it would be the sex industry a life that they know as normal. So after they are disposed of what do they do to survive? The continue they life they have always known (Prostitution). Not a choice they made as a young toddler many years before the occasional visitor comes from overseas to spend his money and time with them as you say. A Choice made for them by heartless greedy people.

[Somtamnication]

There are similarities between a refugee such as this young man and his friends driven to prostitution and drugs to please these foreigners and how the yanomami tribe has been exploited in Brazil, also being driven to prostitution and alcoholism by the gold rush.

So, do you blame the yanomami, too?

Nothing excuses murder. But seriously, you gotta look at the other side of the coin on this one.

[mrbiggwigg]

Left out of this sad tale is some actual background on Awe Ye Ping. Ok, so he was 22 years old and the 56 year old deceased would take regularly select him for sexual activity. There is a brief mention of the condemned young man's drug use. But, there is nothing about this kid as a human being. Doesn't anyone want to know why a kid could be driven to a murder like this, why he had no problem killing someone? Is it more convenient to believe that it was because of some dirty dishes?

What's missing from this story and a few of the other news items is more detail about the condemned and the two other young male prostitutes. No mention of the influence of years of abuse and exploitation. These 3 young men were impoverished, uneducated and in the case of one, a drug addict and were working as prostitutes. When young people are exploited and abused is it any wonder why they don't place a value on life? Years of being exploited usually lead to a manifestation of violence. These 3 young men are the face of prostitution in Thailand. I suppose that's too unpleasant for some to consider. Instead, we get a story that's politically correct.

I will get slammed for being insensitive and cruel. However, am I to believe that the deceased was motivated by altruistic concern for these 3 young men? Or, is the truth of the story that this was just another foreigner in Thailand taking advantage of destitute refugees that picked the boy who's psyche had reached the point of no return? Mr. Crisp chose to take advantage of vulnerable young men and he paid the price.

It is unfortunate that Mr. Crisp died, but one thing is certain. Mr. Crisp won't be exploiting marginalized destitute refugees anymore.Yea, yea, I'm so insensitive.

I'm sorry, I've seen some of these kids and so many of them are seriously screwed up courtesy of the sex trade and foreigners that have a wonderful public personna, but are evil incarnate when out of sight.

Yes it could of being dirty dishes, Asians make a big deal about saving face! On the other hand there is very little help for the mentaly ill in Thailand, and of course being a prostitute is a choice!

Do you really Believe every prostitude does it by choice?

[Paagai]

Fortunately I'd already posted a comment here: Thread in Chiang Mai forum before reading this rubbish.

It never ceases to amaze me what people can invent and speculate about the story without knowing anything of the people involved on either side. And, don't underestimate the role that drug taking by the perpetrators (Yaa Baa) had to play in this story. I don't see they have anyone but themselves to blame for that.

David Crisp was a very talented young man who was highly respected in Chiang Mai's ex pat community and in his professional career. His sexuality and lifestyle was never a secret, neither was the good charity work he did supporting some of these hill tribe peoples. Some of the insinuations here are highly offensive both to his memory and his many friends and family.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Paagai

[Paagai]

Another article with different perspective here

If you want the human side....

[yumidesign]

[

excellent ! Butt......There are good boys and there are bad boys

[Frank33]

Since when are Akha opium growers abused refugees?

Since when are prostitutes impoverished and destitute?

I'm sure you would not have found any excuses for David Crisp if he had beaten to death Awe Ye Piang for not cleaning up those dirty dishes ...

[blabla1]

Where have all the flowers gone,long time passing, Where have all the flowers gone,long time ago, things are'nt any different in Thailand as to the rest of the world, they are just cheaper, easier and readily available, that's the attraction. The prostitute scene in the western world is full of gangsters ,drugs and murder,with police involvemet and payoffs,always has been, if you chose to be involved with it,(letting them stay with you) the price is very high, beatings,extortion and unfortunately murder, we some times forget that disneyland can be a very dangerous place, i knew him and this was a shock to me, RIP mate.

[mrdome]

Young Asian males are just not that great at being tidy/doing housework due to the way they are raised plus 'jai ron' may arise and stupid decisions made. Without knowing more details, it's just not really possible to say much more about this tragedy.

[Ulysses G.]

I suggest that everyone just ignores Geriatickid. He is a well known troll in these forums and loves to take an offensive position just to get a reaction.

I do not agree with geriatrickid in this thread, but he is far from a troll and is entitled to his opinion. If you do not agree with him then please just post your reasons why without condemning another member that you do not agree with.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[AndyCrisp2]

Two years is a long time, and many of those that responded to this event have moved on. It struck me that no-one posting on this thread actually knew my brother - an interesting difference from the postings on this forum following news of his murder in 2009.

GK wrote:

" I will get slammed for being insensitive and cruel. However, am I to believe that the deceased was motivated by altruistic concern for these 3 young men? Or, is the truth of the story that this was just another foreigner in Thailand taking advantage of destitute refugees that picked the boy who's psyche had reached the point of no return? Mr. Crisp chose to take advantage of vulnerable young men and he paid the price. " - my emphasis

Anyone who knew my brother WOULD believe such a thing, and I appeal to those of you who belong to this forum, and who knew my brother, to cast your minds back to the events and feelings of the time. -

[metisdead]

An off topic post and reply have been removed.

Discussion of the Pai murder case is off topic to this thread and is another topic altogether.

[TAWP]

They stole money and his personal items. Just a couple of thieving gay hookers.

Point of order: It is well established that a large percentage of Thai male prostitutes are actually straight. Just ask their girlfriends.

Your homophobia is noted.

Which highlights that their occupation is a choice and not them being abused or exploited.

So any, any, justification attempt in this direction is truly null and void.

[TAWP]

You appear not to have understood geriatrick's point about the context of exploitation... And you think being a prostitute's a choice?

If you think it isn't, perhaps you should get to know some of them.

And by that, I mean know...not asking how poor and exploited they are and how much money they want you to send back to them when you go back home from your vacation-trip...

[TAWP]

Question 3; Why is it okay for David Crisp to sleep with boys?

He does not seem to be a holy man to me. So I would not immediately say RIP.

Since when is a grown up man a 'boy'?

Edited February 5, 2011 by TAWP

[Jim walker]

And the moral of this story and forum is should have spent his money on a dish washer rather than prostitutes ..

[venturalaw]

Mr. Crisp won't be exploiting marginalized destitute refugees anymore.

The only victims of exploitation are those unfortunate TV readers that happened upon your post. What utter tripe!

[TAWP]

And the moral of this story and forum is should have spent his money on a dish washer rather than prostitutes ..

Moral of the story; don't complain to prostitutes or people that live with you for the benefits you can give and not love that they are not doing their share of the housework, unless you had outline it as part of the agreement beforehand.

But in all seriousness, I doubt that was the real motive for the killing, greed is more likely to have been. The complaint about doing dishes is just indications that there was a lack of care from the live-in-men in question.

Edited February 5, 2011 by TAWP

[jackr]

Doesn't anyone want to know why a kid could be driven to a murder like this, why he had no problem killing someone?

No, I have absolutely no interest whatsoever. The perp murdered someone and not in self defense, his life wasn't at stake; there's only one guilty party here. Whatever shit he was into and why he was working where he was is totally and utterly irrelevant. This guy didn't make them go to his house, they did't have to go back with him, he didn't have them chained to the wall, he didn't beat them, and he didn't have to murder him because he may have lost a bit of face (how many times have we heard that). In all probability, he was working the sex trade for cash on his own accord to live a better life than in the hills / to have fun / to send cash back to family / to get off on drugs, whatever. Who cares. As I say, totally irrelevant.

I can't for the life of me see why folks get all bent out of shape on stuff like this in favour of the guilty. It's thinking like this that has us where we are at right now in the West regards wrong uns. How's about focusing on the real victim!!

[freeurmind2]

I worked with the victim for a total of one week.

Our groups were collaborating, quite successfully, on a Christmas musical program the year before he was killed. Mr Crisp struck me as a decent, kind, rather nerdy musical prodigy, who loved to laugh and was, in every essence of the word, gay, a life of the party kind of guy. It was heart warming to find out that the chorale group he organized sang to raise money for charity. He didn't strike me as someone with a dark, sordid personal life.

True, we can't really know anyone until we've actually lived with them. But for those who knew him well, they loved the person but frowned upon his 'lifestyle' (their words, not mine). From second hand information, those he worked with knew that he had these young men (NOT minors/underage children as so many like to insist here) living in his home. They were definitely not sex slaves, nor were they being abused as is implied in previous posts. From what I gather, he did pick these men up from god knows where and decided to take them home. Now, whether it was for altruistic or selfish purposes is up for debate. However, the people I talked to warned him or dropped hints about removing them from his abode. It has been implied that yes, they were there to service him and that taking them into their home was a kind gesture on the victim's part, and no, they were not being abused of tortured. There was a lot of regret among his friends that Mr Crisp did not heed their warning.

I also met and talked to his ex-boyfriend, a Thai man in his late 30's to early 40's. They had been together in the victim's hometown of Edinburgh while this Thai guy was a student there. Between racking sobs he said they had parted amicably and that Mr Crisp's death was a terrible loss for him despite the years they hadn't seen each other (he had flown in when he heard the news). The man was in shock, he didn't know what to do to help himself or the family in their grief. It was hard not to feel sorry for the guy and for the victim also.

For those who might think it, I'm neither falang nor Thai, so no hidden agenda in this post about defending the victim from alleged abuse of power. He just didn't seem to be the kind of person to do that. He was involved in useful (near voluntary) work and charity activities for many years. He was just an unfortunate victim of his own poor judge of character, perhaps even naive sense of altruism.

[geriatrickid]

I am surprised by some of the comments calling the prostitutes lazy because they do not take up legitimate jobs. Surely, people who have been living in Thailand for some time are aware that most hill tribes people are non citizens. As non citizens they are locked out of many legitimate jobs.. They are not even given full access to the Thai education system. The literacy rate is well below 50%. Do some of the people pasing judgement calling them lazy understand that? What do you want people who are uneducated and that cannot legally work to do? People will undertake illegal activities if it means surviving. What options aside from making trinkets and subsistence farming does Thailand give these hill tribes people?

For the sake of the discussion please take into consideration the status of the hill tribe people and their well documented environment of abuse and poverty. The usury that goes on is a tool to exploit and supress a vulnerable population. Please read some of the studies and reports published by reputable organizations. People are opining as if the Akha people are treated as anything but dirt in Thailand. Do you know what Thais call Hill Tribes people? Its ekaw or egaw, the Thai variant of the N word. As has been pointed out by others, when you take children and subject them to long term abuse, they grow up to do some terrible things. We see it with child soldiers in Africa. We see it with the street gangs in Central America and Brazil. Please do not label the condemned parties as worthy of additional suffering as their lives have most likely been one of misery since they were born.

I am not crying the blues for the accused. However, no effort has been made to understand a concept termed mitigating circumstances. When one is poor in Thailand, one really doesn't have access to quality legal counsel. Guilty pleas are coerced and statements that put a crime in context are rarely presented. The accused took the guilty plea with no significant defense mounted because the death penalty would have been a certainty otherwise. Is that justice? This does not excuse a murder However, the violent act has to be put in context. One of the accused had been a drug addict from an early age and allegedly had been abused, as are many of the hill tribe people. This aspect of the crime has been glossed over, but that's what my understanding of the pretrial report was. If I have it wrong, then correct me. There is a slight sanitized mention of it by a police officer. It should not come as a surprise that the background of the accused was not taken into consideration since it is almost never done when it comes to the poor and especially the Hill Tribes people. This was justice Thai style. There can be no healing until there is forgiveness and one cannot forgive unless one understands why the murder happened.

A long term adolescent drug user is incapable of rational thought. One can blame him for being a junkie, but why not ask the question as to how and why he became a junkie. Why not ask the question if the accused was using drugs during his stay at the home. How did he pay for the drugs? Many aspects of the case are not detailed because of a need to be PC and a desire to spare the family additional pain.

Hill tribes people just don't pick the sex trade as a career choice. Those that end up in it are groomed for it starting at an early age. It's like a factory production line. I'm not a social activist or a liberal, but when I view documentation of pediatric physical injuries including some horrific injuries to the genitalia and anus, combined with the documented histories assembled by reputable health organizations, I know there is a problem. Before passing moral judgement on the guilty parties, please go and do the leg work. Have a chat with people from groups like Ahka Heritage Foundation. Do not confuse the sex workers of Phuket and Pattaya with what goes on with Hill tribes people. People that claim to have spoken with some of these marginalized sex trade workers need to work on their listening skills. One can easily pick up the sense of frustration and the anger that they have against themselves and against the world around them. There are some very screwed up angry people in that population. The sex trade in rural areas is a grim, depressing existence with marginal income with the only freebies being Hepatitis and HIV. On a good day, the infection rate is only 10-15% of a sample population. If that population was in Geneva, we would declare a public health emergency. Do you know how depressing it is to see that in a data collection of 21-35 year olds? Go and talk to the public health workers. You'll get an earful.

Yes it is a tragedy that Mr. Crisp was killed. It was a criminal offense. It is also a tragedy that 3 young men will spend the rest of their lives in prison. This type of event can be avoided if foreigners do not go to bars and select drug addicted destitute men or women for sex. It can also be prevented if young people are given an alternative to the sex trade to survive & pay off family debts.

[venturalaw]

Left out of this sad tale is some actual background on Awe Ye Ping. Ok, so he was 22 years old and the 56 year old deceased would take regularly select him for sexual activity. There is a brief mention of the condemned young man's drug use. But, there is nothing about this kid as a human being. Doesn't anyone want to know why a kid could be driven to a murder like this, why he had no problem killing someone? Is it more convenient to believe that it was because of some dirty dishes?

What's missing from this story and a few of the other news items is more detail about the condemned and the two other young male prostitutes. No mention of the influence of years of abuse and exploitation. These 3 young men were impoverished, uneducated and in the case of one, a drug addict and were working as prostitutes. When young people are exploited and abused is it any wonder why they don't place a value on life? Years of being exploited usually lead to a manifestation of violence. These 3 young men are the face of prostitution in Thailand. I suppose that's too unpleasant for some to consider. Instead, we get a story that's politically correct.

I will get slammed for being insensitive and cruel. However, am I to believe that the deceased was motivated by altruistic concern for these 3 young men? Or, is the truth of the story that this was just another foreigner in Thailand taking advantage of destitute refugees that picked the boy who's psyche had reached the point of no return? Mr. Crisp chose to take advantage of vulnerable young men and he paid the price.

It is unfortunate that Mr. Crisp died, but one thing is certain. Mr. Crisp won't be exploiting marginalized destitute refugees anymore.Yea, yea, I'm so insensitive.

I'm sorry, I've seen some of these kids and so many of them are seriously screwed up courtesy of the sex trade and foreigners that have a wonderful public personna, but are evil incarnate when out of sight.

You and I do not always agree on many things however I am behind on your comment here. I see that you are not condoning the actions of the kid nor are you being insensitive to the victim. You state some sad and true facts however some on here will never accept the fact that a child forced into the sex industry and suffers years of abuse will develop some form of psychological problems later in life. It is a well documented fact world wide. I feel sorry for those that think victims of child abuse will grow up to live normal productive lives. Oh well I am going to get slammed on here also for backing you but hey what the heck let me have it.

True, it is less unlikely that the victims of child abuse will "grow up to live normal productive lives." However, that is no excuse for said victims becoming murderous opportunistic thugs upon reaching adulthood. After bashing in their 'exploiter's' brains, they steal what they can and go out drinking at the Lillawadee Restaurant in Chiang Mai. Hardly victims in my book. They had a rough, undeserved childhood (which is total speculation for we really don't know) and then go wreak havoc upon innocents. Life in prison really is not a sufficient punishment, but at least they will be prevented from victimizing other 'exploiters' who may offer them work and and a place to stay.

[SomTumTiger]

None of us will know the whole story here, and it is useless to speculate. Rather, we should be saddened for the untimely end of the man, and hope that he is in a better place. The rest is just salacious busybody nothingness - let to go.

[Tanaka]

I will get slammed for being insensitive and cruel.

No you'll get slammed for being an opinionated windbag who thinks that having acquaintances who are homosexual makes you an expert on the homosexual condition. You're just someone with an opinion.

I totally agree. What an opinionated, ego inflated windbag.

All the prostitutes (they are known as working girls/boys) have made their choices long before the occasional visitor from overseas comes to spend his money and time with them. Most do it voluntarily, whilst others are encouraged by their parents. It is not seen as bad, as in western society otherwise places like Chiang Mai, Phuket, Pattaya etc would be closed down.

There is one main point here - in all societies MURDER IS BAD. This convicted person was a murderer, I hope he suffers in jail and I hope they catch the other accomplices. Oh and I am not the usual 'hang 'em; bomb 'em' poster you get on this forum.

And your opinions are not opinionated? The claim that prostitution's a choice is an opinion, an ill-informed one too. You really think that Ning wakes up one morning and says, 'Hmm, Mom, I've been thinking what do you think of me abandoning school and that plan to be a physician or lawyer and head for the bars of Pattaya or Pat Pong instead? Terrific prospects and I might even get to be a Mama San one day.' A choice involves choices, credible alternatives, usually only found amongst those with other equivalent opportunities in life. I don't know what sort of people you know, but the farmers and workers I know do think prostitution IS bad. And as you rightly, if unwittingly point out, parents do put pressure on their children (not to be a prostitute but to get a well-paying job to help them out). The choice here is: do I obey Mom and quit school (which Mom pays for) or not?

Well, you said it yourself in your last sentence. They do make a choice. Our lives are full of choices and we make them, not someone else. And we are personally responsible for these choices and their consequences. Thailand is full of this "it was not my fault" and not to take responsibility for your actions. For you and GK to fall in with their tune just shows lack of insight and downright stupidity.

[473geo]

I get the impression that most posters have no first hand experience of a situation where they have nobody to turn to, no knowledge of where their next meal is coming from, no money, only friends are in a similar situation, see no future, only desperation........a desperation which contorts their view of life...........from this point anything is possible.......and the usual result is making ill judged decisions............

Behaviour would suggest most human beings feel the need to be loved, wanted, cared about?........how does that affect somebody who has only had paid for sex for years without any affection?.............and if they eventually find somebody who shows that care and affection they crave..........then begins to remove it?

GK is raises valid points....try to view them as general rather than case specific

[Deeral]

Why is it so important to describe them as "Hill Tribe"?????

and another giveaway comment...

"i have no problem with gays ,but......."

Oh really???? spot the homophobe!

It seems that this story is so full of stereotype the rednecks won't know which one to pick on - may be they'll get so confused, they'll give up!

[Deeral]

....but surely many of the expats in Thailand, including some who post here are living with "ex-prostitutes"?

[balo]

Its the choices we make that can be the difference between life and death.

Picking up prostitutes, whether its men or women and let them live in your house is risky , especially people with drug problems. He should have listened to the warnings.

RIP

Edited February 5, 2011 by balo