Ceasefire Agreed But Thai-Cambodian Border 'Tense'

[KhunG]

Fookhaht,

Never fails to amaze me...............

English v USA??????

I'm pretty sure the USA didn't exist at the time, however if you guys want to feel as though you have some history why let it cloud your rhetoric?

Then maybe you should look it up. The US revolutionary war ended in 1783, so the USA existed for 76 years before that conflict with the English.

[POSA290103]

I have an "IDEA" that maybe others could contribute to or at least provide some constructive Criticism.

First, determine the area of contention; and I mean professional surveyors, the full <deleted>.

Secondly, We name this area "Friendship Park".

Now we proceed to turn this area of violence into a tourist attraction where two cultures combine rather than conflict.

Turn it into a corporation where both side have a 50-50 contribution and a 50-50 earning off what ever the region reaps.

Declare if a free trade zone, so both cultures can flog their wares and food vendors can provide a variety of selections from both sides of the border.

These are just preliminary ideas off the cuff, but imagine how it would appear on the international stage if two countries converted an area of dispute into an area of cooperation and cultural exchange?

Maybe I'm idealistic, utopian, or just plain crazy, but it would be a unique resolution to a commonly re-occurring problem, and at least people would profit rather than die.

Your idea make too much sense for anywhere in this crazy, corrupt and idiotic world. Keep dreaming!

[MaiChai]

Some history for you guys: originally the land and temple were Thai; however as the temple is Khumer, and as a good will to the Cambodians, the Thais gave the temple to the Cambodians, however the Thais did not want to loose territory so kept the land around the temple, hence the unusual land split

The secondary dispute is the sea border, which has gas and oil. The Thais want to develop this with the Cambodians, and split the revenues. However the Cambodians don't want to do this. Thus neither side can access the resources since its in dispute.

The greater picture is that the Cambodians know the Thais are politically very weak at present, and are taking advantage of this. Basically the Thai miltary want to protect the current border and not lets the Cambodians take land, however, as usual Abhisit and co are sitting on the fence being undecided and not wanting to take any action. Hence the action by the Yellows/TPN. The Thai military may take control of the situation if the weak government fails to take any action.

Final spin on the story is that some recon the Cambodians are causing this as being an opportunity for Taksin to intervene and become the big hero that saves the day. Its not beyond the relms of thought that Hun Sen and Taksin are close, close enough that it would be in the interest of Hun Sen if Taksin returned to power (or proxy Peua Thai; in effect Taksin pulling the strings from behind the scenes).

Edited February 5, 2011 by MaiChai

[dancep]

This moron (me) decided to do my visa run to Cambodia today as it is the closest border and within a 2.5 hour drive. I should have read the news first as the border was closed when we got there.

You mean the Aranyaphrathet - Poipet border??? Jesus. That's news!

can anyone confirm this is open? I assume he meant one closer to the action... but I am going to the Poipet one on Sunday to go to Siem Riep. Anyone go to this crossing today?

thanks

[Seismic]

I have an "IDEA" that maybe others could contribute to or at least provide some constructive Criticism.

First, determine the area of contention; and I mean professional surveyors, the full <deleted>.

Secondly, We name this area "Friendship Park".

Now we proceed to turn this area of violence into a tourist attraction where two cultures combine rather than conflict.

Turn it into a corporation where both side have a 50-50 contribution and a 50-50 earning off what ever the region reaps.

Declare if a free trade zone, so both cultures can flog their wares and food vendors can provide a variety of selections from both sides of the border.

These are just preliminary ideas off the cuff, but imagine how it would appear on the international stage if two countries converted an area of dispute into an area of cooperation and cultural exchange?

Maybe I'm idealistic, utopian, or just plain crazy, but it would be a unique resolution to a commonly re-occurring problem, and at least people would profit rather than die.

The only problem with this (and I am sure the cambodian govt and people would agree to it) is trying to get the Thai's to agree and really the words snowball and hell come to mind there. Unfortunately the nationalistic streak here has become so ingrained into their mindset that they truly believe that it is their land and no-one can take it away. Even my wife, who is generally pretty levelheaded has this "its our land" syndrome.

[fasteddie]

Where are all those people who were claiming that the Government and the Yellows were one and the same?

OMG, talk about clutching at straws, they are one and the same, are you new here? just because the usurper can't do everything his sponsors want!

[oldsailor35]

Good news both the Thai's and Cambodian's have negotiated a cease fire (Lets hope it lasts)

Good news Cambodia has returned the 4 Thai Army personnel, captured in their territory (As i understand it)could have quite easily been arrested for illegal entry in to Cambodia and sentenced to 6 0r 8 years for spying

Sad news a handful of people have lost their lives (For what)

What happened to the tank, was it sold for scrap?

[oldsailor35]

"Flagrant agression by Thai troops"...................yep ! we all saw that in Bangkok, did'nt we. However this time the victims were armed and ready to fight back........different hey ?

oops, better have a cease fire quickly.

If those who so easily rehash, like yourself, words to the effect of 'The nasty nasty evil Thai government and generals wantonly killing lovely lovely common people having a friendly chat on a few street corners' (also so easily relating your dogmatic throwaway lines to anything and everything else that happens over here) were even half right, do you have any idea how many would actually have been killed on Bangkok's streets? Do you know what automatic rifles can actually do? Safe to say a hell of a lot more would have died than those who were (yes, very tragically and needlessly -isn't it always that way?) killed!! Sounds to me like you should now probably be hopping over the border to side with the Cambodians, going by your 'Thais don't like it back, do they?' tone. Do any of you who post these rehash after rehashes on here actually have even the slightest real notion of just what goes on on in another's counrty, including the true rights and wrongs? Personally I doubt it, going by the fact it always smacks of talking of another countries' issues (yup, some of em massive) like we 'guests' have some privvy information which only looking down from our hitherto unblemished ivory towers has afforded us!!!!!!!

Condolences to those lost and the quicker this is mediated successfully and moved on from, without more loss of life, the better.. no points to be scored here, methinks, lads!!!

I know , especially when the majority of the opposition are unarmed civilians. The Thai army still have to earn respect and they have not done that yet. And if i am going to side with anybody, it will be with the 'downtrodden' Thai citizens of isaan and the north. To me , the Thai army's use of live ammo on its countrymen instead of rubber bullets and tear gas was a cowardly move. But of course from your comfortable armchair , thats ok !

[oldsailor35]

I have an "IDEA" that maybe others could contribute to or at least provide some constructive Criticism.

First, determine the area of contention; and I mean professional surveyors, the full <deleted>.

Secondly, We name this area "Friendship Park".

Now we proceed to turn this area of violence into a tourist attraction where two cultures combine rather than conflict.

Turn it into a corporation where both side have a 50-50 contribution and a 50-50 earning off what ever the region reaps.

Declare if a free trade zone, so both cultures can flog their wares and food vendors can provide a variety of selections from both sides of the border.

These are just preliminary ideas off the cuff, but imagine how it would appear on the international stage if two countries converted an area of dispute into an area of cooperation and cultural exchange?

Maybe I'm idealistic, utopian, or just plain crazy, but it would be a unique resolution to a commonly re-occurring problem, and at least people would profit rather than die.

[/quot

If what you are saying makes sense, then i agree and its only you and me who are NOT crazy, although i have my doubts about you ( just joking)..........Yes i think this is a good idea and really the only solution as neither side wants to give in. Just get a properly surveyed and marked Neutral zone, controlled with a joint administration licence all vendors, no free for all, but open acess to both Thai and Cambodian.

[EmU]

I have an "IDEA" that maybe others could contribute to or at least provide some constructive Criticism.

First, determine the area of contention; and I mean professional surveyors, the full <deleted>.

Secondly, We name this area "Friendship Park".

Now we proceed to turn this area of violence into a tourist attraction where two cultures combine rather than conflict.

Turn it into a corporation where both side have a 50-50 contribution and a 50-50 earning off what ever the region reaps.

Declare if a free trade zone, so both cultures can flog their wares and food vendors can provide a variety of selections from both sides of the border.

These are just preliminary ideas off the cuff, but imagine how it would appear on the international stage if two countries converted an area of dispute into an area of cooperation and cultural exchange?

Maybe I'm idealistic, utopian, or just plain crazy, but it would be a unique resolution to a commonly re-occurring problem, and at least people would profit rather than die.

you are forgetting about the greed factor ,otherwise a sensible idea.

[krading]

I wonder if the casinos are still open, that's where the money is.

[Robby nz]

Some history for you guys: originally the land and temple were Thai; however as the temple is Khumer, and as a good will to the Cambodians, the Thais gave the temple to the Cambodians, however the Thais did not want to loose territory so kept the land around the temple, hence the unusual land split

The secondary dispute is the sea border, which has gas and oil. The Thais want to develop this with the Cambodians, and split the revenues. However the Cambodians don't want to do this. Thus neither side can access the resources since its in dispute.

The greater picture is that the Cambodians know the Thais are politically very weak at present, and are taking advantage of this. Basically the Thai miltary want to protect the current border and not lets the Cambodians take land, however, as usual Abhisit and co are sitting on the fence being undecided and not wanting to take any action. Hence the action by the Yellows/TPN. The Thai military may take control of the situation if the weak government fails to take any action.

Final spin on the story is that some recon the Cambodians are causing this as being an opportunity for Taksin to intervene and become the big hero that saves the day. Its not beyond the relms of thought that Hun Sen and Taksin are close, close enough that it would be in the interest of Hun Sen if Taksin returned to power (or proxy Peua Thai; in effect Taksin pulling the strings from behind the scenes).

If you want to go farther back into history before the French drew the border lines in the late 1800,s Thailand was in control of Angkor Wat.

But even farther back at the hight of the Khumer empire Cambodia went as far accross as Ayutthaya.

However history means little in this and what it comes down to is who will gain the most out of it, or who sees themselves gaining the most.

When I say gain I dont mean in land area but both financialy and politicaly.

So if you really want to work it out do a ballance sheet.

Seems to me Thailand has the most to lose on both counts.

Should there be a full scale war or only isolated shootings the big winner of course will be Thaksin.

He tried and failed to start an internal war but he may just have more luck on the international front with the help of his mate Hun sen [who incidentaly is not an elected leader but a dictator who took over in a coup in 1997]

And the idiot yellow shirts are helping stir it along, what was it they said 'we dont want war only the use of militery might'

Surely Thaksin and Hun Sen must be laughing in delight as they see them working for them without pay.

[philhal2]

MMMMMMM all this debate and nastiness amongst people with " strong cultural ties and heritage" . All easily proven by the claims to land and temples and the rights of ownership . All with similar needs and wants with regard to the future , economically , politically and culturally . Lets for a moment suppose that we could remove political troublemakers and the religious influences , be they good , bad or indifferent across all the countries in the SOUTH EAST ASIAN part of this great continent ?

Further imagination allows all the ordinary people to have a say ( vote ) legitimately ?

Even more wild fantasy ? there is an amicable amalgamation of , THAILAND , MALAYSIA . MYANMAR ,LAOS , VIETNAM , CAMBODIA and any other country in the region . All coming under the banner of S.E.A or a more acceptable regional name .

What a powerful economical and regional influence with very little left to fight about, "" except for politics and religion "".

MMMMMMMMM What if ? There would be no room for Western manipulation , controls and very little likelihood of repeat performances of previous interference and wars by outside , would be if they could be , World Dominators . ???

S>E>A>T>O would really have some meaning then .

Doubt the cultural and heritage lines ? Science says it can link genetically every woman on earth to one origional woman . Historical records prove the movement of the ancestors for all these people and the wars and the intermarriages and the division of the land .

Perhaps my favourite " DREAM " has been triggered by a message I read on many T SHIRTS , SIGNS , AND A THOUSAND OTHER ITEMS , while travelling in CHINA , my favourite influence was and is without doubt simply their idea and saying.

" ONE WORLD , ONE PEOPLE '

We are all the same , we love , we laugh , we cry , we bleed , But when will we put a stop to those who manipulate , twist , corrupt and cause war , misery and poverty just to satisfy an individuals lust and greed ???????????????

Edited February 6, 2011 by philhal2

[sunnyrolfe]

Well putting aside all the political agendas etc. etc. I live in Cambodia and I've made friends with an English guy and his Thai lady who are holidaying here. All the Khmer people here are nothing but friendly with her and they all know the latest border dispute news. The local ladies are always hugging her and there is far from any bad blood. To cut a long story short what I'm saying is that ordinary people see what they see in front of them and unless whipped up into a nationalist crowd mentality frenzy most people are essentially good inside and don't hate anyone. I just added this to put minds at rest of anyone who may be hesitant about bringing their Thai lady to Cambodia at this time. The problems have been at one border point, Not affecting anything in country in Thailand or Cambodia as far as travelers are concerned.

[termad]

Some history for you guys: originally the land and temple were Thai; however as the temple is Khumer, and as a good will to the Cambodians, the Thais gave the temple to the Cambodians, however the Thais did not want to loose territory so kept the land around the temple, hence the unusual land split

The secondary dispute is the sea border, which has gas and oil. The Thais want to develop this with the Cambodians, and split the revenues. However the Cambodians don't want to do this. Thus neither side can access the resources since its in dispute.

The greater picture is that the Cambodians know the Thais are politically very weak at present, and are taking advantage of this. Basically the Thai miltary want to protect the current border and not lets the Cambodians take land, however, as usual Abhisit and co are sitting on the fence being undecided and not wanting to take any action. Hence the action by the Yellows/TPN. The Thai military may take control of the situation if the weak government fails to take any action.

Final spin on the story is that some recon the Cambodians are causing this as being an opportunity for Taksin to intervene and become the big hero that saves the day. Its not beyond the relms of thought that Hun Sen and Taksin are close, close enough that it would be in the interest of Hun Sen if Taksin returned to power (or proxy Peua Thai; in effect Taksin pulling the strings from behind the scenes).

Before you give history lessons at least read up on the subject so at least you know what you are talking about. Below is a previous post that I made and if you want to check the facts in it just set your search engine on 'Victory Monument' Bangkok and then follow the leads.

"It's about time that all Thai's recognised and admitted that they deservedly lost the temple and some surrounding land because they invaded two peaceful neighbours (Cambodia and Laos) in 1942 after being equiped by the Japanese with weapons and fighter planes.

France was then under the Vichy government and the only French nationals present in Laos and Cambodia were some 10,000 farmers and other assorted civilians armed with shotguns and the like who obviously stood no chance against a large well equiped Thai army. In 1942 the Thais erected the Victory Monument in Bangkok to celebrate their glorious victory.

Unfortunately, for Thailand Japan was beaten and it was given 24 hours to get out of the seized areas by Mountbatten. Again, unfortunately for the Thailand the team that was appointed to draw the borders after the war were all French cartographers and yes they most probably did make a few sqiggles in the line that they drew as the Cambodian/Thai border (and who could blame them) so Thailand lost the Temple and land and also a few other small areas along the borders.

They have as much chance of getting the Temple back as the Germans have of getting back the German land that Poland took,the Polish land that Russia took or the Japanese islands that Russia took. It's also (I think) only a matter of time before Hun Sen has a cable car for tourists installed at the base of the cliff so he can then, if he wants to, close the Thai entrance to the Temple and the present Thai attitude will hasten that line of thought"

(Note the 10,000 or so French farmers most probably finished up in Japanese concentration camps).

Edited February 6, 2011 by termad

[webfact]

Related topic:

Renewed Thai-Cambodian Border Fighting: Army

Follow this link:

[worldfun]

Thanks for the history lessons here at the end of the thread & particularly thanks for the 'peace park' idea which I very much like even it may be another utopia due to various reasons not least the 50-50% split lol which ultimately will never be agreed & frankly how could it? The Khmers hold the major asset (the temple) while the Thais would be the ones able to invest & provide entry for the masses so surely a 60/40 split would be more realistic in a mega biz project feat. casino, temple, markets, king power shops, mega ferris wheel, resorts et all

Good luck & see you all there at shinewat-sen park 5555+

[ableguy]

"Flagrant agression by Thai troops"...................yep ! we all saw that in Bangkok, did'nt we. However this time the victims were armed and ready to fight back........different hey ?

oops, better have a cease fire quickly.

What a crock you babble.

[ableguy]

Well putting aside all the political agendas etc. etc. I live in Cambodia and I've made friends with an English guy and his Thai lady who are holidaying here. All the Khmer people here are nothing but friendly with her and they all know the latest border dispute news. The local ladies are always hugging her and there is far from any bad blood. To cut a long story short what I'm saying is that ordinary people see what they see in front of them and unless whipped up into a nationalist crowd mentality frenzy most people are essentially good inside and don't hate anyone. I just added this to put minds at rest of anyone who may be hesitant about bringing their Thai lady to Cambodia at this time. The problems have been at one border point, Not affecting anything in country in Thailand or Cambodia as far as travelers are concerned.

By ordinary people do you mean bar girls ?

[ableguy]

Some history for you guys: originally the land and temple were Thai; however as the temple is Khumer, and as a good will to the Cambodians, the Thais gave the temple to the Cambodians, however the Thais did not want to loose territory so kept the land around the temple, hence the unusual land split

The secondary dispute is the sea border, which has gas and oil. The Thais want to develop this with the Cambodians, and split the revenues. However the Cambodians don't want to do this. Thus neither side can access the resources since its in dispute.

The greater picture is that the Cambodians know the Thais are politically very weak at present, and are taking advantage of this. Basically the Thai miltary want to protect the current border and not lets the Cambodians take land, however, as usual Abhisit and co are sitting on the fence being undecided and not wanting to take any action. Hence the action by the Yellows/TPN. The Thai military may take control of the situation if the weak government fails to take any action.

Final spin on the story is that some recon the Cambodians are causing this as being an opportunity for Taksin to intervene and become the big hero that saves the day. Its not beyond the relms of thought that Hun Sen and Taksin are close, close enough that it would be in the interest of Hun Sen if Taksin returned to power (or proxy Peua Thai; in effect Taksin pulling the strings from behind the scenes).

If you want to go farther back into history before the French drew the border lines in the late 1800,s Thailand was in control of Angkor Wat.

But even farther back at the hight of the Khumer empire Cambodia went as far accross as Ayutthaya.

However history means little in this and what it comes down to is who will gain the most out of it, or who sees themselves gaining the most.

When I say gain I dont mean in land area but both financialy and politicaly.

So if you really want to work it out do a ballance sheet.

Seems to me Thailand has the most to lose on both counts.

Should there be a full scale war or only isolated shootings the big winner of course will be Thaksin.

He tried and failed to start an internal war but he may just have more luck on the international front with the help of his mate Hun sen [who incidentaly is not an elected leader but a dictator who took over in a coup in 1997]

And the idiot yellow shirts are helping stir it along, what was it they said 'we dont want war only the use of militery might'

Surely Thaksin and Hun Sen must be laughing in delight as they see them working for them without pay.

Why are you getting so worked up, all the people involved in this dispute are just a bunch of clowns, logic plays no part.