Renewed Thai-Cambodian Border Fighting: Army

[elcent]

I'm not sure who provoked the latest outbreak. When considering the crackdowns on demonstrators during the last rallies I'd be not surprised if that repeats itself just on another level.

It just needs a few bad apples within the armed forces to create a situation which so many desperatly seek. The more I read the more I believe that the explosion in Bangkok this afternoon was a form of intimitation too. First I thought someone was dynamite fishing in the ponds there. But now ...

I heard the explosions this afternoon shortly after 3 pm.but no one seemed to believe me.

Any idea what they were?

I also heard which sounded like failed ignition about three times today. Never like this before. Seems to be orchastrated.

This one I witnessed below was different

There was quite a big explosion in front of an army camp and army golf club on Ram Intra near Central(opposite about 100m before the bus stop) this afternoon(around 3:20pm). It was next to the road about 2 meters below the road level where the ponds are, so it didn't effect anything on the road. Not sure what it was but I guess a bit bigger(and noisier) than a giant firecracker.

Minutes later, a car was speeding from that intersection as if it was chasing someone. People in the cars and on the bikes at the intersection were confused but continued as if nothing has happened. I couldn't see anyone doing any kind of investigation.

Something is going on in the background, that's for sure

[random]

In fairness they have been controlling the country since the dems took over, however that is due to change come the election, the dems wont win so the army need to regain visible control now before any election, and as has already been said the army need an excuse this time, and now they have it. they are planning to move from the background to the foreground, and sadly you are correct about the other event.

Spot on.

With a little help from the PAD and Major General Chamlong of course.

Don't expect much sympathy from posters here, they couldn't see it four years ago, admitting what is now even more obvious is highly unlikely.

Too many posters on here with their heads in the sand, and to admit now they were wrong would be a major loss of face, and they can't have that with now being thaier than thais They were just happy to see the back of Thaksin the ignored the damage done, they believed the dems were good for the country, it is clear to anyone that looks at objectively they are making a hash of things, or rather their puppet masters are making a hash of things, just like they did while governing after the coup, and those days are coming back.

[random]

I'm not sure who provoked the latest outbreak. When considering the crackdowns on demonstrators during the last rallies I'd be not surprised if that repeats itself just on another level.

It just needs a few bad apples within the armed forces to create a situation which so many desperatly seek. The more I read the more I believe that the explosion in Bangkok this afternoon was a form of intimitation too. First I thought someone was dynamite fishing in the ponds there. But now ...

I heard the explosions this afternoon shortly after 3 pm.but no one seemed to believe me.

Any idea what they were?

I also heard which sounded like failed ignition about three times today. Never like this before. Seems to be orchastrated.

This one I witnessed below was different

There was quite a big explosion in front of an army camp and army golf club on Ram Intra near Central(opposite about 100m before the bus stop) this afternoon(around 3:20pm). It was next to the road about 2 meters below the road level where the ponds are, so it didn't effect anything on the road. Not sure what it was but I guess a bit bigger(and noisier) than a giant firecracker.

Minutes later, a car was speeding from that intersection as if it was chasing someone. People in the cars and on the bikes at the intersection were confused but continued as if nothing has happened. I couldn't see anyone doing any kind of investigation.

Something is going on in the background, that's for sure

It depends where you are in Bangkok, there are normally explosions near the river in the rama 3/ ratburana area

[truethailand]

wow, only 18 posts to the first 'if you don't like it or agree with everything thailand does move elsewhere' post

Hes right you know. One things sure if they not posting they are always monitoring. This is only going one way...army controlling the country... AGAIN. Good time to be in charge for a couple of years if you think what events are on the horizon

In fairness they have been controlling the country since the dems took over, however that is due to change come the election, the dems wont win so the army need to regain visible control now before any election, and as has already been said the army need an excuse this time, and now they have it. they are planning to move from the background to the foreground, and sadly you are correct about the other event.

I am more surprised how someone can be so wrong on so many issues. Do you actually live here or just come up with these theories over a beer with Spooner and Hodge?

Ok TAWP lets talk about the 30 Billion increase in the army budget after May last year, the promotion of many officers involved in the May events, the 70 billion earmarked for a 3rd Cavalry division outside Khon Kaen and last week was it near a trillion was needed for some more military hardware. Where is all that money going, a lot is earmarked for private bank accounts belonging to the brass in khaki. Lets do a deal if there is no coup or army running this country before the next election I promise not to post on here again. Likewise if the army does take control of the country before an election is held you and your like stay away from this forum. Have we got a deal

[TAWP]

I suppose you guys above missed the posts and images by the western guy in this forum or the ones posted by Al Jazeera...unless you think they are 'government news' too. *sigh*

I guess you have irrefutable proof of who fired these missiles *sigh*

Shells, not missiles. And for the love of God, if you are trying to tell us that the Thai Army shelled their own troops and village now, well...you truly are a red shirt apologist...why am I expecting you to be logical and not put forward conspiracy theories just because you can, not because you have any evidence of it?

wow, once again calling me a red shirt, I have said many times that being agaisnt the yellows and the dems does not automatically make me a red shirt. yes i do live here, I own property and a business here.

Any other things that you would like to try and deflect away from your pointless posts, basically up to know you have accused people of treason, being a red shirt, not being in thailand just because they disagree with you, illogical, conspiracy theorists. is there anything actually factual that you would like to add????

Up to know you have basically just agreed with everything in the news coming from thailand and you have made no attempt to look objectively at this, are you thai? if not it would seem that you have been here a little too long and actually become thaier than thais, well done you

now just to let you know, and hopefully this will sink in, there are two sides to every story, despite you posting as though you think you are posting facts, you are actually posting what can be deemed as propaganda at this time, and the chances of the news being accurate at this time is minimal and very much one sided, now don't throw your toys out of your pram when someone points this out and offers a different theory, there's a good boy.

Now how about sticking to the subject and leave the petty mudslinging to one side, If you have irrefutable facts let us see them, until then your opinions are about as worthy as anyone elses on here.

Once again, I called you a red shirt apologist, not red shirt. Your posting history clearly supports that assertion.

And again, if you really want to try to be 'cool' and 'diss' what people post here and be able to refute the propaganda, the first step is surely to try to be informed, right? Or you just jump straight into troll-mode?

Again, following the western journalists that are here, including Al Jazeera's Wayne Hay, and you might get some info.

Instead of your conspiracy theories that you spout.

Could you please substantiate your claim the Thai Army shelled their own troops and the Thai village?

If not, could you please refrain from posting such things? Spreading disinformation isn't helping anyone.

[monkfish]

The Temple or Palace is obviously of great historical value to the Cambodians.

Would it not be a great gesture of the Thailand and its people to just let the Cambodians have that little bit of scrub land surrounding it?

[TAWP]

Lets do a deal if there is no coup or army running this country before the next election I promise not to post on here again. Likewise if the army does take control of the country before an election is held you and your like stay away from this forum. Have we got a deal

If the deal includes all other red shirt apologists, then you have a deal.

[TAWP]

The Temple or Palace is obviously of great historical value to the Cambodians.

Would it not be a great gesture of the Thailand and its people to just let the Cambodians have that little bit of scrub land surrounding it?

It is more land than just 'around the temple' that is in question. Heck, on part of the disputed land there is Thai farmers living...you wanna go there and tell them to be nice to move, since you want to make a kind gesture -- even if their land has no real connection to the temple's access routes or surrounding at all?

[michaeljordan]

Lets do a deal if there is no coup or army running this country before the next election I promise not to post on here again. Likewise if the army does take control of the country before an election is held you and your like stay away from this forum. Have we got a deal

If the deal includes all other red shirt apologists, then you have a deal.

Thailand went to the Rumsfield-GW Bush school of politics.

When screwing your own people, attack some other nation for reasons that are complete lies.

[wolf5370]

Just a thought...are there still incoming and outgoing bwteen the two countries? Have they made any moves (either side) of expelling embassy staff etc? Just looking if there is any political escallation or if it is just gung ho snotties kickking off back and forth.

[dumball]

'TAWP' timestamp='1297005722' post='4201219']

'random' timestamp='1297004490' post='4201171']

'TAWP' timestamp='1297004228' post='4201156']

I suppose you guys above missed the posts and images by the western guy in this forum or the ones posted by Al Jazeera...unless you think they are 'government news' too. *sigh*

]

I guess you have irrefutable proof of who fired these missiles *sigh*

Shells, not missiles. And for the love of God, if you are trying to tell us that the Thai Army shelled their own troops and village now, well...you truly are a red shirt apologist...why am I expecting you to be logical and not put forward conspiracy theories just because you can, not because you have any evidence of it?

It was stated on this forum very recently that Thai airforce bombed thier own troops during the Laos debacle , so yes , anything is possible during times of (Chaotic) confrontation , it would appear even the generals are somewhat confused about what are the facts and what is the fiction during these skirmishes .

I have the feeling much ot this tempest in a teacup has more to do with political posturing in its own wierd way , nothing of good or benifit will be the end result , the same old problem of land ownership will still need to be settled in an amicable manner . You posters are getting your nickers in some terrible knots over something you are not able ,to do diddly squat about in amy way shape or form , as many have been told before and I feel will be told again , you are mere g(J) uests in Thailand with no say or consideration what-so-ever . I suggest you save your thoughts and energy for the typical 'Bar-buzz' and at least have a laugh together .

[gkinbkk]

Phones are back up and I jut saw the hospital on ch 3, it wasnt on fire but there are some soldiers coming in with nasty looking injuries

[random]

Once again, I called you a red shirt apologist, not red shirt. Your posting history clearly supports that assertion.

And again, if you really want to try to be 'cool' and 'diss' what people post here and be able to refute the propaganda, the first step is surely to try to be informed, right? Or you just jump straight into troll-mode?

Again, following the western journalists that are here, including Al Jazeera's Wayne Hay, and you might get some info.

Instead of your conspiracy theories that you spout.

Could you please substantiate your claim the Thai Army shelled their own troops and the Thai village?

If not, could you please refrain from posting such things? Spreading disinformation isn't helping anyone.

red shirt/red shirt apologist, same crap to be honest and it is a little tedious. Just because I am making you 'facts' look what they actually are, opinion, there is no need to get abusive I even refrained from pointing out your nonsense about suggesting treason as i was concerned that you were not thinking straight and didn't want you being more confused that you have actually become.

Where have I stated that Thai troops shelled themselves and Thai villages? could you please refrain from posting such things? Spreading disinformation isn't helping anyone. Also could you please substantiate your claim that the cambodians are responsible for bombing the thai villages, and not al jazeera or thai news, both of them are being fed the news at the moment rather than finding the news for themselves.

as for western journalists, i believe you were apoplectic last year at the BBC reporting

anyway i would love to continue highlighting your opinions but the football starts soon, just hope they don't cut the tv and hope the coup happens after the football finishes. Oh and pleae take that other posters offer of you never posting on here again should there be a coup

[truethailand]

Lets do a deal if there is no coup or army running this country before the next election I promise not to post on here again. Likewise if the army does take control of the country before an election is held you and your like stay away from this forum. Have we got a deal

If the deal includes all other red shirt apologists, then you have a deal.

I am not an apologist for anything, I am and always have been for social reform which can only be achieved by firstly removing certain elements of the armed forces from any position of influence, and that means from all walks of life and institutions. I do not condone violence by any side and I cannot speak for the others but I am a man of my word. If their is no army take over of power in this country before an election I will withdraw from political forums on thaivisa. if as I expect an army takeover of power in the coming weeks or months you will do likewise. If you are committed to your postings take the bet (it nots gambling honestly)

[patjem]

It's very difficult to understand the Thai point of view. "OK, you take the temple but we keep the land around". No sense at all. Anyway the maps show the land belongs to Cambodia.

Thailand has already a civil war in the South, why do they need a war against a neighbor on the East? It's more than a need, it's an "obligation" to have wars everywhere.

Strange indeed.

"Smooth as silk".

The more pressure on Abhisit to call an election the more he will play the nationalist card.

Are you kidding?

[Cnxforever]

Well the Yellow shirts are probably so happy that they are putting condoms on over there head.

This is what they have been hoping for. The lot of them should be airlifted into the center of it and they might change there mind.

This could all be a plot by a group of people in Thailand and it may not really have anything to do with the temple or Cambodia. Maybe a political group in Thailand (not wanting to name names) has implanted agents inside the military on the border with the intent to stir up a war with Cambodia to cause the current government to loose face which would lead to it's downfall. Who knows what plots are going on behind closed doors with some of these political groups.

you are correct there are to many power hungry, primitive elements playing their dirty games here. The worst is that these people are the ones who pretend to the outside they do everything in the interest of the country - (Hitler and his pals Goering and Goebbels where masters at this!) - when in fact they don't give a dam_n about the country - they only think of power and personal gain. If it suits them the trow the country into chaos.

We have all heard the phrases "as long as my country needs me" and "I am serving my country" from people who are clearly not wanted by the majority of the people - the latest one being Mubarak in Egypt who thinks the world will stop turning without him!

Sad thing in Thailand is of course that the press is so lame trying to report only "political correct" news and these scoundrels who use nationalism and mayhem for their political agenda get away with it!

It looks like SEAsia really still consists of rival primitive tribes with two faced leaders who smile and grin at each other when they meet and stab each other in the back whenever they get an opportunity!

In this case it looks like Abhisit knew beforehand that the 7 would enter Cambodia causing an incident which has now been exploited by certain people to start an armed conflict - as always in Thailand just follow the money and find out who benefits politically and financially from this situation.

Lets hope it does not escalate - but it sadly looks like some people have planned this escalation all along.

and this is what the Thai Army chief has to say to the ongoing problems - read it and you stop wondering what is going on the man seems to be a real pillar of the intelligentsia in this country !!

quoted from Bangkok Pundit

Quote

He stated that sometimes things just happen at the border because they are neighboring countries close to each other (“แนวเขตชายแดนอยู่ห่างกันไม่มาก ดังนั้นอะไรก็เกิดขึ้นได้ อาจจะเกิดการเข้าใจผิดกันก็ได้”). When there is a pressure situation, when something unusual happens, there may be some people who are the cause of the confrontation, but we try our best so that the situation does not get out-of-hand (“สถานการณ์การรบที่อยู่ในการกดดัน เวลามีอะไรที่ผิดปกติก็อาจจะมีคนที่เป็นสาเหตุทำให้เกิดการปะทะกันก็ได้ แต่เราก็พยายามอย่างดีที่สุด ที่จะไม่ให้เกิดเหตุการณ์บานปลาย”). There is news that Thai soldiers were detained, but there were not [that were detained]. If there were any, then I would have to know. I confirm that none were detained (“ข่าวว่าทหารไทยถูกจับนั้นไม่มี ถ้ามีผมต้องทราบ ยืนยันไม่มีการถูกจับ”). When asked if Cambodia would protest to the UN that we fired first, Prayuth answered that we can protest against them too. They can protest, we can protest. Anyone can do. It will be up to the evidence. On who fired first, he didn’t know, but when it starts it must stop and we must find a way that it doesn’t happen again. This is important. Trying to find out who started it doesn’t help. Can we bring or something?

“Both sides lose silver and gold [i.e.money]… I ordered that [they] should not fire into Preah Vihear because it will cause damage and the firing is not from the temple” (“ทั้งสองฝ่ายก็ต้องสูญเสียเงินทอง…ผมสั่งห้ามยิงไปที่เขาพระวิหารเพราะจะทำ ให้เกิดการเสียหาย เพราะไม่ได้ทำการยิงที่ตัวปราสาทอยู่แล้ว”).

When the Army C-in-C was asked if there were would be more skirmishes, he said he couldn’t answer. He said as long as there is provocation then such things could occur at anytime. (เมื่อถามว่า ผบ.ทบ.ยืนยันได้หรือไม่ว่าจะไม่มีการยิงกันขึ้นอีก ผบ.ทบ. กล่าวว่า ตอบไม่ได้ ตราบใดที่มีการยั่วยุกันอยู่แบบนี้ มันพร้อมเกิดเหตุการณ์ได้ตลอดเวลา). He further said that he was the commander of the military forces and he would try to ensure there were not further incidents or loss of life.

“Therefore, who wants to fight they are invited to Preah Vihear. Come on. Come very quickly. Come and see what it is like when artillery fire is exchanged” (“เพราะฉะนั้นใครอยากจะรบก็ขอให้มาเขาพระวิหาร มาซิมาเลย ให้มาเร็วๆ ให้มาดูเวลาเขายิงปืนใหญ่กันให้เข้ามาเลย”).

When asked whether the TPN group should stop protesting, he said that is something they need to ask themselves… They say they have the right to protest under the constitution. We should not get excited. If you are a soldier, you should not be excited as then you can’t fight as you don’t have the qualities. You will become crazy. If you don’t fight and you just make a lot of noise that means you cannot fight. (เมื่อถามว่า กลุ่มคนไทยหัวใจรักชาติควรหยุดประท้วงไปก่อนหรือไม่เพื่อให้เหตุการณ์คลี คลาย ผบ.ทบ. กล่าวว่า ต้องไปถามเขาดูว่า เขาควรจะเลิกหรือไม่เลิก มาถามตนได้อย่างไร ตนมีหน้าที่รักษาชายแดน ตนไม่มีหน้าที่ไปถามเขาว่าจะประท้วงหรือไม่ไประท้วง เขาอยากประท้วงก็ประท้วงไป เพราะเขาอ้างว่ามีสิทธิตามรัฐธรรมนูญ เรื่องนี้อย่าไปตื่นเต้น ถ้าเป็นทหารต้องไม่ตื่นเต้น มิเช่นนั้นจะรบไม่ได้คุมสติไม่ได้ ก็จะกลายเป็นบ้าเป็นบอ ถ้ายังไม่รบแล้วมีเสียงโวยวายมันก็รบไม่เป็น)

Unquote

and this man is in charge of the armed forces of this country ?? Frightening really!

Bangkok Pundit stated also the following - "He is not even subtle about his criticism of the TPN and the PAD… Some interesting comments there. Prayuth was highly agitated and irritated at press questions throughout…"

Of course he was - he thinks he answers to no one!

[elcent]

It depends where you are in Bangkok, there are normally explosions near the river in the rama 3/ ratburana area

Ram Intra to Ramkhamhaeng three failed ignation sounds(all within one hour's time). The biggy in front of the army camp and army golfclub on RamIntra I have seen from Central side (it was obviously not aimed at Central).

As I said before, I thought first someone was dynamite fishing at the ponds there.

[TAWP]

Just because I am making you 'facts' look what they actually are, opinion, there is no need to get abusive

Re-reporting facts or statements from journalists is NOT an 'opinion'.

Where have I stated that Thai troops shelled themselves and Thai villages? could you please refrain from posting such things? Spreading disinformation isn't helping anyone. Also could you please substantiate your claim that the cambodians are responsible for bombing the thai villages, and not al jazeera or thai news, both of them are being fed the news at the moment rather than finding the news for themselves.

You started asking silly 'question' if that aim in the thread:

I guess you have irrefutable proof of who fired these missiles *sigh*

And now you claim westerners and Al Jazeera is being feed news...it means that you think that only You know the truth and that all news sources are wrong? Unless they report favorably on the Red Shirts, then you will defend them...yeah, that sounds logical.

Yes, please go and watch your football, I doubt you ever watch the news on any channels anyway.

[gkinbkk]

Look like its over for the time being

Women and Children have been evacuated but men asked to stay behind to stop looting

Of course there is now a shortage of food, water and blankets as its still pretty cold up there.........

[elcent]

Cambodia says a disputed 11th Century temple - a UN World Heritage site - has been damaged during continued cross-border clashes with Thai troops.

Part of Preah Vihear temple collapsed after a Thai bombardment, officials said. Thailand has not commented.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12377626

So Thailands claims the land and bombs it herself?

[elcent]

the first in German Magazine Der Spiegel

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,743348,00.html

An der Grenze zu Kambodscha wird scharf geschossen, im Landesinneren brodelt es: Thailand steht erneut vor einer politischen Machtprobe. Der Regierung droht nun ein Zangengriff zweier bislang verfeindeter Lager.

Means, sharp shooting at the border. Inside of Thailand high tensions. Thailand before a political power game again. The government is under threat of two sides within the country.

THAT'S IT ALL ABOUT!

[jayjay0]

It's very difficult to understand the Thai point of view. "OK, you take the temple but we keep the land around". No sense at all. Anyway the maps show the land belongs to Cambodia.

No, it doesn't.

Is it really so hard for you people to follow the news or facts of this or other issues?

And the Cambodian army deliberately aimed their shells on the Thai village primarily, not the military installations. That is a violation of War laws and clear case of murder.

Just so you pro-Cambodian posters know what you support. Time to move perhaps?

Your a funny man. You talk about a violation of war laws. Since when has Thailand cared they even invaded there own hospital. That is a violation of the Geneva convention.

Now they are destroying a world heritage site. You might want to rethink your attitude.

A beautiful chance for Thailand to work with there neighbors for the mutual benefit of both and to be a example to the world and because of people like yourself they choose to create conflict and show the world how childish they can be.

This is a senseless conflict and it is supported by people just like you.

Do you have a kick me sign on your back.

I am a foreigner and I live here because I love living here. The only real hard part is dealing with Thai's with a closed mind.

Much like yourself.

[jayjay0]

I suppose you guys above missed the posts and images by the western guy in this forum or the ones posted by Al Jazeera...unless you think they are 'government news' too. *sigh*

Now what are you talking about. Aljazeere does not have a man there they take there news if any from other sources. Can you point out the images on this thread that show Cambodia starting this.

If you would stop and think about it you would realize it was Thailand that started it. We have a group in Bangkok just screaming for a war and all it takes is one of them with a gun to start it. That particular group has proven that it cares nothing about Thailand.

And you insist on supporting them.

Try thinking peace for a change.

[mike_rad]

Buddhists fighting other Buddhists over a Hindu temple. Oh, the irony...

[TAWP]

Now what are you talking about. Aljazeere does not have a man there they take there news if any from other sources. Can you point out the images on this thread that show Cambodia starting this.

Al Jazeera's Wayne Hay is on location.

You can follow him here: http://twitter.com/#!/wayne_hay

I am looking forward to your public apology.

[thaiguide]

I´m sitting safe by the computer 9000 km from the warzone but I have all the answeres. I wonder why nobody asks me?

Edited February 6, 2011 by thaiguide

[elshaheen]

I hope both sides slaughter each other, every one of them. Then let Buddha separate them. Then take the temple and dynamite it into a pile of sand and let it fall into the ditch below. No more temple, no more fight.

[elshaheen]

Just because I am making you 'facts' look what they actually are, opinion, there is no need to get abusive

Re-reporting facts or statements from journalists is NOT an 'opinion'.

Where have I stated that Thai troops shelled themselves and Thai villages? could you please refrain from posting such things? Spreading disinformation isn't helping anyone. Also could you please substantiate your claim that the cambodians are responsible for bombing the thai villages, and not al jazeera or thai news, both of them are being fed the news at the moment rather than finding the news for themselves.

You started asking silly 'question' if that aim in the thread:

I guess you have irrefutable proof of who fired these missiles *sigh*

And now you claim westerners and Al Jazeera is being feed news...it means that you think that only You know the truth and that all news sources are wrong? Unless they report favorably on the Red Shirts, then you will defend them...yeah, that sounds logical.

Yes, please go and watch your football, I doubt you ever watch the news on any channels anyway.

Actually Al Jazeera English has been busy with conflict in Egypt now and not some silly little Tantrum fit by both Thai and Cambodia. Though, if either party turned that site into a pile of rubble, then what’s there to fight over, then they might come.

[warfie]

We've got family living about 40km from Khao Pra Viharn, just heard from them by phone. There's been continuous artillery fire since around 7pm tonight. Lots of people from the border have been evacuated and are staying in the local school. The Thai army have ordered all electricity to be cut to reduce the risk of Khmer troops firing into lighted areas. Sounds scary.

They'll HAVE to move now... to somewhere with power, so they can watch their soaps....

[elshaheen]

Firefight at Thai-Cambodia border

Firefight at Thai-Cambodia border - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera English

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2011/02/20112613152324529.html

Enjoy