Pattaya A-Go-Go Staff Beat Up Foreign And Hi-So Customers

[jackcorbett]

Can someone give me one or 2 good stories about Pattaya that will erase the millions of negatives. They will have to be bloody tho. Almost everyday Pattaya throws up another negative never anything nice to be heard of this place.

Earlier I gave a link to Twelve Wonders of Pattaya so if you had been paying attention you would have found 12 excellent positives about Pattaya.

My personal experiences with both Super Girls and its sister club, Super Babes have been excellent--so much so that I would have put these clubs about dead last for stooping to beat up its customers. In an earlier post I also described how a German customer was ganged and hospitalized in a Naklua Bar right after I had left. The owner had led the beating. And I have always felt this owner is one of the best bar owners in Naklua. So the fact that I otherwise regard this owner highly and still feel Super Girls and Super Babes are the best go go bars in town tells me this. It's the mentality here combined with the authorities not doing their job to enforce the law that makes such gang beatings so commonplace. And believe me, they are. The only thing i missed the night the German customer got beat up was the narrow sliver of time the beating actually took place. Then there was the time I bailed out one of our fellow condo owners at 6 a.m. His face was just as bad one week after his beating as the morning I took him home. He refused to pay for a drink an ex girlfriend ordered on his bin after he refused to buy her a drink. Wound up in a fight with two guys which turned into three guys and at some point he went unconscious. He woke up in the middle of Soi 7 just as the police were arriving. He was the only one to go to jail. Customer wrong, Bar right. Police condones the gang beating. Get the picture? Abby normal in Western countries; normal procedure here.

In fact you yourself along with a few others here encourage these very beatings by being such abject apologists for Thai bad behavior.

[DP25]

No, many people don't get roughed up in US bars at closing time. They take away the drinks and turn up the lights and stop the music. I don't know what else to tell you but that is how it works. It is simply too much of a hassle to manhandle people out the door.

LOL and all the drunks in the bars in the US always go home and give up their drinks at closing time and if they don't they get a wai from the bouncer

In my experience that is correct. Have you ever been to a bar in the US where that did not happen? Not read about it but actually been there?

I've never been to a bar in the US where they've taken away my drink at closing. They just stop serving and let everyone filter out as they finish their drink. Starting to take away people's drink is just asking for trouble. I can't imagine it happening.

It is against the law in the US to serve a drunk.

It's against the law, but not many places observe it. I've never had the slightest problem being served when drunk off of my ass. All the stuff you're talking has no basis in reality.

[IAMHERE]

I wonder what these folks did that got them so ticked off. Is this a sign of the 'unwashed masses' starting to stand up to the elites?

Gee, I guess the mafia are 'Red Shirts' then.

[loser1]

I've seen plenty of people getting slapped in bars in Thailand and it's nearly always because the customer is steaming drunk and abusing the staff or a member of staff. They get warned but don't give up and continue the foul mouthed abuse which inevitably leads to getting a good slap.

If you fancy a good slap yourself simply get blind drunk, argue the toss over a few baht on your bin, call them thieves, shit bags and you will "be back" then get what you deserve after repeatedly being asked to tone the foul disgusting language down, be that here or anywhere else in the world for that matter.

SAW - for your information - around 1996/97 I received a fractured skull in a large bar/disco in Chaweng on Koh Samui simply for protesting to the management that one of their staff had been harassing my girlfriend there at the time. And I didn't use any bad language - nor was I threatening to them in any way - nor drunk. And I was on my own and there were about six of them.

In hindsight I would have - of course - done things differently. But then I simply didn't know the score - just is the case I suspect with these Hi-So victims.

There was an enactment of this on a tv programme as i remember, yes?

[kuffki]

Can someone give me one or 2 good stories about Pattaya that will erase the millions of negatives. They will have to be bloody tho. Almost everyday Pattaya throws up another negative never anything nice to be heard of this place.

The fact that you don't live there, reason #1. The fact that you don't visit, #2. Would be a bloody good enough reason for a lot of people.

I have visited there and some dirty old farang pedophille started hitting on my 13 yrs old daughter in the hotel and no it was not in the red light district it was in the 5% area which is not. So strike number 2 off. And strike number 1 off because I would not put her through that again and live there. Now my Question was can you give me 2 good stories comming out of Pattaya to erase the millions of negatives.

may i ask you 4 questions please.

1. Where did you stay?

2. Since you only been here once, how do you know where is the 5% non red light and the rest 95% is the red light?

3. Why did you leave your 13 year old daughter unattended to allow someone try to "hit" on her? Not criticizing your parenting, but if you were with her at the time, i doubt any man will be approaching her NO?

4. Do you think its safer for 13 year old alone to be in BKK or any other city in the world for that matter?

[kdc1899]

I happen to know him as a nice polite and well behaved guy - as is his girlfriend.

^^^^^^

[jackcorbett]

I find this entire incident to be very ironical as just recently Super Girls received four stars out of five on my web site while its sister club, Super Babes got a five star rating. And aside from the fact that these two clubs have some of the most beautiful girls on Walking Street the main reason they were rated so highly is because "they respect their customers". Both the man who does my reviews who goes by the moniker "Uncle Bufford" will often go to one of the two sister clubs just to relax after having a less than pleasant experience somewhere else. The girls at Super Girls in particular behave in a haughty manner and normally gyrate slowly in front of the customers with their eyes staring straight ahead, avoiding eye contact. Some say this is bad and would prefer being swarmed by two or more go go girls at once all asking him to buy them drinks. I prefer the Super Girls--Super Babes style leaving it entirely up to the customer to pick out exactly which girl interests him. I find this to be far more respectful to the customer because it allows him complete freedom of choice and apparently most of the Korean-Japanese clientele thinks so too. I personally think these recent beatings are not a Super Girls Super Babes thing, but a cultural thing that involves many aspects, particularly the Asian concept of face and the police failing to serve and protect which is what they strive to do in the U.S. while preferring to keep their hands in every cookie jar in sight.as the far greater virtue. Now don't get me wrong, many Thai owned businesses do a good job of taking care of their customers but far too many fail to focus on the needs and wants of their customers.

Let me give you an example of businesses elevating "face" over the wants and needs of their customers. Near my condo here in Naklua is the Lek Villa Hotel. It has a good buffet breakfast at a good price of 110 baht. In general the Lek Villa does a good job on both its morning and dinner buffets and I can definitely recommend the Lek Villa in general. However, the Lek Villa will normally have as one of its selections spaghetti in one form or the other be in Spaghetti Bolognese, Pork spaghetti or whatever. The restaurant used to hide a container of Parmesan cheese in a cabinet below the table its selections are displayed upon. After many weeks of hiding the parmesan cheese, the Lek Villa stopped providing Parmesan cheese altogether. So I brought the matter up to one of its long standing employees and he said to me, "Cheese expensive". He's right, it is, but how many people will actually pig out on spaghetti given all the other selections at the Lek Villa? And Lek Villa could raise the price of its buffet from 110 baht to 115 baht if carrying Parmesan cheese made that much of a difference. Bottom line is many if not most Westerners who eat spaghetti want to have the option of putting parmesan cheese on their spaghetti and that's why every single Western restaurant I can remember offers Parmesan cheese to their customers. But I could talk to the employee till I was blue in the face and he'd never lower himself to bringing this up to his boss. Another weakness in the buffet at Lek Villa is the fact that the bacon is severely undercooked. It's greasy and not browned whatsoever. And this has been going on for over four years now. I won't believe for one second that customers have not complained about this. I would have myself except for the fact that I would not be received well by either management, the cooks, or the people I've known working working there for over four years. I mean who am I, a mere Westerner and a guest of the hotel to even dare to tell the Thais here how to do anything? Face.

I can go on and on about how clueless so many bars and restaurants are about taking care of their customers. Just as most Westerners prefer their bacon to be properly cooked I'd say most Westerners visiting the Pattaya Naklua bars don't like Thai music yet how many times do you see such bars having Thai music in their establishments at such loud volume levels that conversation becomes practically impossible? They do it for their bar girls, not for their customers. So I really don't find this incident that happened at Super Girls to be so unusual given the overall value system here which far too often puts its customers well beneath its own staff.

Edited February 13, 2011 by jackcorbett

[Nisa]

I'd say most Westerners visiting the Pattaya Naklua bars don't like Thai music yet how many times do you see such bars having Thai music in their establishments at such loud volume levels that conversation becomes practically impossible? They do it for their bar girls, not for their customers.

A happy Bar Girl makes for a happy customer

[mark45y]

I'd say most Westerners visiting the Pattaya Naklua bars don't like Thai music yet how many times do you see such bars having Thai music in their establishments at such loud volume levels that conversation becomes practically impossible? They do it for their bar girls, not for their customers.

A happy Bar Girl makes for a happy customer

Nisa you are like a bulldog. Persistent and I give you an “A” for that.

A good friend of mine runs a bar in Pattaya and he lets the street sellers show their wares to customers sitting at his bar stools. They pickpocket people daily. They got my cell phone one evening. I told him to please keep these people out of his bar. He said he couldn't do anything about it.

His girls play Thai music loud enough to chase away the customers and then wonder why there are no customers in the bar. I asked them to turn the music down, I asked him too. No response. I went somewhere else.

Customer service in Pattaya is well below any international standard. I had a friend who owned a vocational school that taught hotel and restaurant administration. She insisted the students turn off their cell phones before class. The whole class quit.

Taken as a whole Thailand does not have a clue about hospitality or tourism. If it did it would lead the world in tourism. I don't mind. I would not want to live here if it was that popular. I liked Singapore in the 60's but it got civilized so I moved to Thailand. I liked Saigon too but not anymore.

Nisa I applaud your Thai defense. I don't know why you choose to see it in such an unrealistic light but good for you for being consistent.

I don't think you have ever been to America. If you go, try Orlando. Visit the hotels and theme parks. Or try Vegas. 50 million people go to those two cities every year. Thailand has 15 million tourists a year. Orlando and Las Vegas two medium sized American cities 50 million. Thailand 15 million. Wake up Nisa. More people go to see Mickey Mouse yearly in Orlando than the whole country of Thailand. Thailand does an awful job in customer service and tourism in general. If they did a good job I wouldn't be here too many people. I don't like crowds.

[Humphrey Bear]

If those women were truly hiso, then the staff at the gogo bar had better head back to Isan, shave their heads, and become a monk for a while

Could indeed go bad for the bar IF daddy is a someone.

Yep, don't go to Pattaya.

Super Dolls (I can't recall it being called Super Girls, but maybe that's the Alzheimers kicking in) and Super Baby were owned by the police when I lived in Pattaya.

Nothing goes bad for those bars, although some of the other bars in Soi Diamond get a lot of hassle.

Why should that be?

Edited February 13, 2011 by Humphrey Bear

[Nisa]

I don't think you have ever been to America. If you go, try Orlando. Visit the hotels and theme parks. Or try Vegas. 50 million people go to those two cities every year. Thailand has 15 million tourists a year. Orlando and Las Vegas two medium sized American cities 50 million. Thailand 15 million. Wake up Nisa. More people go to see Mickey Mouse yearly in Orlando than the whole country of Thailand. Thailand does an awful job in customer service and tourism in general. If they did a good job I wouldn't be here too many people. I don't like crowds.

I am LOL right now as you now have changed the subject completely (now being proven absolutely wrong) about violence in Pattaya/Thai bars vs the US to now wanting to talk about foreign tourists who come to Thailand vs. ALL (US residents included) who visit two of some of the largest tourists attractions in the world. And even here you are talking out your a@@ as the very polite France (with Disney Land) is the top International Country for Tourism and Thailand (not long ago a 3rd world country) rates 18th out of 60 countries globally and 4th in the Asia/Pacific including above Australia and Singapore.

As for me never being to America ... I am an American and have lived in numerous states there throughout my life.

And by the way ... Southern Nevada has less than 3 Million foreign tourists passing through a year according to last data I have seen. As for all of the US. they had 55 Million foreign arrivals.last year. The US has about 4.5 times the population and near 20 times the Geography of Thailand. Yet the US only had about 3.3 times the number of foreign tourists.

Why not just admit you like to complain about how Thailand and its people are worse than other places even though you have chosen Thailand above these other places.

[Wallaby]

Nisa I think you are confusing bar fights between patrons when we are really talking about bar fights between farangs and the bar employees.

Here in Oz you are very unlikely to be bashed for aguing with bar staff, you'll be tossed out the door but that will be it. The law won't allow them to bash you outside and they take that very seriously as some have been jailed for doing it.

In Thailand, I have no problem with other customers, but I am afraid of an altercation with staff. There IS a difference.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Wallaby

[geriatrickid]

Accurate crime statistics REQUIRE accurate reporting. Police would need to be objective, open, transparent, ethical, honest and report ALL crimes, not just the ones that cannot be concealed, or bought. Is there anyone at police entering data from alll those handwritten papers? I don't know.

Secondly the data police supply to the next government agency would need to be reported in the same transparent, honest ethical manner.

Comparing crime from a country of 250 million with higher rate of reporting to one of 65 million with UNKNOWN rate of reporting is not objective.

You'd need REAL and COMPLETE crime stats for Pattaya to figure out the incidence (% per pattaya population) in order to objectively compare it with another similar sized city in a G7 country.

I agree with you. Crime is under reported in Thailand, especially sexual assaults and child abuse. In order to manage these crimes, one needs specially trained credible law enforcement personnel and they just aren't around in large numbers.

One should not reference statistics unless the comparison one is making is fair. Pattaya is marketed as a tourist destination. Wichita is not. Who goes to Wichita Kansas for a vacation? Even the example given referencing an argument in Mashpee Cape Cod is spurious. The stabbing cited wasn't against a tourist, since the tourist trade in Mashpee in the middle of February is non existant. If people want to play the game of stats, then make fair comparisons. Compare Pattaya to tourist zones of similar size. I can't think of any incidents of staff attacking clients in the entertainment zones of Miami Beach, or Cape Cod or Barbados or Penang.

[TAWP]

If you didn't find anyone murdered in Pattaya during the past month then you haven't read the news/this forum/newspapers at all...

[Nisa]

If you didn't find anyone murdered in Pattaya during the past month then you haven't read the news/this forum/newspapers at all...

You are right .. I meant this month (February) and I also see now a few "Google News" articles coming up now. I likely misspelled Pattaya when searching and was also trying to find the number of murders per year there but cannot.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Nisa

[atyclb]

http://s4.hubimg.com...090135_f520.jpg http://www.nationmas...iland/cri-crime http://hubpages.com/...d-Risks-2-Crime

If you look at the "demographic" of pattaya one would absolutely not be surprised to find a significant crime rate.

It also seems there is a mandate to not discourage potential tourists

Edited February 13, 2011 by atyclb

[canine79]

Sun is shining weather is cool. What a day!

Why not go out , enjoy the sun, get some vit-D???

<deleted> some of you lot trying to prove by google-ing crime statmyasstics??? As we all know most of the time crime here in the land of smileys goes under reported but if you really wanna .. Try murder per capita?

And why so defensive???? I don't remember pdn saying ' it only happens here in Th' or did it? I musta missed it ... Some people got HURT, hi so or lo so.

Waka waka.

[mark45y]

I don't think you have ever been to America. If you go, try Orlando. Visit the hotels and theme parks. Or try Vegas. 50 million people go to those two cities every year. Thailand has 15 million tourists a year. Orlando and Las Vegas two medium sized American cities 50 million. Thailand 15 million. Wake up Nisa. More people go to see Mickey Mouse yearly in Orlando than the whole country of Thailand. Thailand does an awful job in customer service and tourism in general. If they did a good job I wouldn't be here too many people. I don't like crowds.

I am LOL right now as you now have changed the subject completely (now being proven absolutely wrong) about violence in Pattaya/Thai bars vs the US to now wanting to talk about foreign tourists who come to Thailand vs. ALL (US residents included) who visit two of some of the largest tourists attractions in the world. And even here you are talking out your a@@ as the very polite France (with Disney Land) is the top International Country for Tourism and Thailand (not long ago a 3rd world country) rates 18th out of 60 countries globally and 4th in the Asia/Pacific including above Australia and Singapore.

As for me never being to America ... I am an American and have lived in numerous states there throughout my life.

And by the way ... Southern Nevada has less than 3 Million foreign tourists passing through a year according to last data I have seen. As for all of the US. they had 55 Million foreign arrivals.last year. The US has about 4.5 times the population and near 20 times the Geography of Thailand. Yet the US only had about 3.3 times the number of foreign tourists.

Why not just admit you like to complain about how Thailand and its people are worse than other places even though you have chosen Thailand above these other places.

In one post you say you are in the US in another you say here in Thailand. Where are you?

Me proved wrong by a few googled headlines?

Sure.

I like Thailand. The fact that I know enough not to complain in a bar about my bill is a consequence of understanding Thailand. Cash out, every round and never run a tab. Yup I know Thailand. Don't ask a cop for help. Thailand.

A woman was trying to kill me once with her shoe. Thai cop, “beat her up.” Me, “I don't want to beat her up. You beat her up.” Cop, “not me. Your problem.”

Nisa my dear, I know this will come as a complete surprise to you but Thailand is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Corruption pervades all levels of Thai society. Thailand ranks 84th in the world. NZ is number 1. How much do you think it costs for a Thai cop to be assigned to Pattaya? And why?

I can't discuss bars in Thailand or the US with you because you simply don't know anything about them. It is pointless for me to relate reality while you substitute Google news stories for experience.

Thai police are dishonest and on the take. Ask any bar owner in Pattaya who he pays every month.

American police are honest and not on the take ask any bar owner if he pays the cops to ignore closing times or any other laws.

Nisa, at least 4 different Thai law enforcement agencies request money from Pattaya go go bar owners monthly.

A waiter of mine spilled a cup of coffee on a lady because his hands were slippery from cleaning butter plates. He didn't mean to do it. It was a slip. It cost me $30,000. Do you really think a bar manager in the US would accost a woman in a bar? Get real.

[jackcorbett]

Even if we were to get statistics just remember, statistics lie. Furthermore some of you (listening up Nisa) cannot get it through your heads that we are not talking about violence in one city in the U.S. versus Pattaya, we are comparing something totally different-----group beatings perpetuated against customers by bar employees. I doubt if any of us can google that and get a meaningful statistical database. And even if we could I sure as hell would not rely on anything I got from the Pattaya police or other authorities. When I was farming in the United States many of us would rely on statistics supplied by the University of Illinois for making our seed corn purchases. Incidentally we have on our farms one of the finest Pioneer seed corn test plots in Illinois. Now, I've seen a lot of databases that have excluded our test plot and others when it's been convenient to push brand X over brand Y. Needless to say we now give the greatest weight to our own test plot results. And cashed in big time. So I'm going to do the same. Only once in all my bar hopping in the U.S. have I witnessed a general bar fight involving a relatively large group of people and this was strictly between customers. That was forty years ago. Been in a few bar fights myself and seen a few more I was not in. As for Pattaya......let's see.....there's the German I mentioned earlier who managed to get beaten up by the entire bar, there's the Irish fellow condo co owner I bailed out of jail who was beaten up by at least three guys, and there's another condo co owner, a Norwegian who was jumped by two lady boys after he protested the bar charging him for beers that he never received. In this last incident, the Norwegian won largely due to the fact that there weren't enough Thais to make it an equal fight. That is a scorecard of three to zero from a database where I personally was pretty close to the victims or in the case of my Norwegian pal, an example of the victim turning into the predator. And this is from just a four year time span. Put into the mix the fact that in the U.S. there are both civil and criminal penalties for a bar beating up its customers whereas in Thailand the police could care less (because they are not getting paid a commission) and there is a lack of concern for customers in general and we have a case closed situation here as far as I am concerned.

Edited February 13, 2011 by jackcorbett

[Nisa]

In one post you say you are in the US in another you say here in Thailand. Where are you?

Now you are going to result in blatant lying????? Please show me were I stated I am in both Thailand and the US.

[random]

I think our resident expert on everything NISA seems to be missing some understanding between assaults and reported assaults. The figures from Thailand will be very skewed considering the polices desire to not take any reports from victims of crime unless palms are crossed with silver, whereas in the UK, US and Australia reports are taken by the police for every report made.

[random]

In one post you say you are in the US in another you say here in Thailand. Where are you?

Now you are going to result in blatant lying????? Please show me were I stated I am in both Thailand and the US.

I wrote "I don't think you have ever been to America."

You wrote "I am LOL right now "

You wrote a few minutes later

"I would guess people actually probably report assaults at about the same since here in Thailand you can get easily financially compensated "

You level of dishonesty is only matched by your inability to admit your are wrong or made a mistake. What I wrote in post 238 was "I am LOL right now as you now have changed the subject completely... " I later went on, in this same post, to address the comment of never being to America in a completely different paragraph that starts: "As for me never being to America ... '

Forgive me if it is not dishonesty and ignorance that leads you to believe "LOL" somehow relates to a geographic location in America.

If you want to take words completely out of context then you should at least do it so the accuracy stays in tact such as your comment above regarding you lack of thought process when you say "I don't think"

still trying to make friends I see, I would suggest that as soon as your realize that other posters have just as much, if not more knowledge than you on various matters, and many posters have more experience than you on different matters, you might get a little more respect on here. However your patronising tone and inability to understand that others are correct at times means you will always be treated on here like something one has just trodden in.

Now lets see that ability to admit you have made a mistake that you are so keen to see from other posters, your post about reported crime figures means nothing as reported crime figures are very different from actual crime figures, so your post showing thailand figures as compared to the figures from UK, US and Australia (et al) will be horribly inaccurate,

Edited February 14, 2011 by random

[animatic]

If you act like a stupid, arrogant, drunken ass,

you can get in trouble in any bar, anywhere in the world.

Sheboygan or Pattaya. Oshkosh or London.

End of story.

Edited February 14, 2011 by animatic

[Nisa]

If you act like a stupid, arrogant, drunken ass,

you can get in trouble in any bar, anywhere in the world.

Sheboygan or Pattaya. Oshkosh or London.

End of story.

Thank You!!

[Wallaby]

If you act like a stupid, arrogant, drunken ass,

you can get in trouble in any bar, anywhere in the world.

Sheboygan or Pattaya. Oshkosh or London.

End of story.

Thank You!!

But in Thailand you are more likely to be belted by the staff.

[Nisa]

If you act like a stupid, arrogant, drunken ass,

you can get in trouble in any bar, anywhere in the world.

Sheboygan or Pattaya. Oshkosh or London.

End of story.

Thank You!!

But in Thailand you are more likely to be belted by the staff.

I am not into that stuff (whips, belts & chains ...) but am sure you are right.

[Wallaby]

Ahhh, come to the dark side.

[Orac]

Ahhh, come to the dark side.

Hmmm - do tell.

I only know The Castle and Secret Motions and they are both on the lightside????

[mark45y]

Ahhh, come to the dark side.

I walked in a bar a while back and there were two Texans and a Thai cop smoking a substance that smelled like burning oregano, drinking beer and talking business while three women polished their shoes or something like that. A porn video was playing on the TV as I ordered a drink and contemplated life. Someone mentioned in this thread that I was negative about Thailand. Not true. Recently in an ABAC poll, “According to the Poll director, Noppadol Kannikar, the survey was conducted among 3,971 persons in 28 provinces nationwide to determine their perspective whether they could accept corruption in the government. Results showed that Thais who can accept government corruption still remains high at 64 percent.”

I find the environment acceptable. I don't try to change it. I try to adapt to it. I would like to drive my own car here but I don't because it is too much hassle. I would like t drive a motorcycle but I don't because it is too dangerous. I would like to go to Walking street at 2 AM but I don't because I am old but not brain dead.

[mark45y]

If this is true Mark then there really is no sense in debating with you since you don't even read the parts of my posts to you where I am responding to a question you ask of me. I have already answered this. I think it is just best to part on the fact we both agree to disagree. And as I have stated previously, I am an American currently residing in Thailand.

I am going to ask you the same direct question, Nisa....where do you live? And I'm asking this for the same reason Mark is asking---your answer will most likely explain why you express the views you do.

If you want to know my opinions and the answer to your question then read my posts here. I have answered it a number of times. It seems silly that you want to figure out where my opinions come from if you don't even read or comprehend my posts. And I don't mean this to be dismissive of you or disrespectful but instead I guess I am just feeling a little disrespected (lack of a better word) that you want to understand where my opinions come from but haven't even clearly read my opinions/posts. And by the way, I have also clearly and directly explained in this thread where my opinions come from just as I have for where I live and where i am from.

I guess I should apologize for asking you twice. I was writing while you posted the previous answer. If you didn't know it I like having you post. I find your answers interesting and using news articles instead of experience is one way of responding to an issue that you believe in but don't have the experience to back up your beliefs. Your style is a bit harsh but no need to be overly polite. We are all used to Western women here. Fire away.

As you get older and accumulate more experiences it is easier to relate them instead of relying on the media to back up what you say.

I like personal anecdotes because I like reading a posters thoughts instead of some news man's thoughts that I don't know.

I know Thai people that I have worked in the last five years and their parents that I worked with 40 years ago. That may make some things I say more valid, some not. If you have been in Thailand for a year and confined to a family atmosphere never venturing out by yourself you would have a different opinion of the late night bar scene in Falang ghettos than a person who lived that life daily.

I know Pattaya pretty well because I lived and worked there for three years. I know the Thai bar scene pretty well because I don't go to Falang bars much anymore. I like coyote dancers better than go go dancers.