Teaching English Here In Chiang Mai

[mistakurtz]

So you are 100% legal but encourage others not to be because a shady TEFL company takes out a full page ad?

So now www.islandtefl.com is a "shady" company,because they took out an ad,plus several pages of participants experiences, in teaching, in a magazine which appeals to young people wishing to travel and earn some money. Well must be loads of "shady" companies out there, even in CM.

You are very big on accusations Planet X. For the umpteenth time I am not encouraging anyone to do anything illegal I am just trying to point out to you that SOME people, can and do, work in the education system in Thailand and other Asian countries without a degree That is the reality of the situation.How many times do you have to be told by myself and other posters? If you can't accept it you really have a problem.

This thread has over 1200+ views so if you dont think people are reading your comments and feeling encouraged you have a problem

Young people that want to travel and take advantage of the poor Thai educational system at the expense of young Thai children -- thats great

your a clown

What is your problem? What about young people who want to travel and make a contribution at the same time? What is that costing "young Thai children."????

[craigt3365]

So you are 100% legal but encourage others not to be because a shady TEFL company takes out a full page ad?

So now www.islandtefl.com is a "shady" company,because they took out an ad,plus several pages of participants experiences, in teaching, in a magazine which appeals to young people wishing to travel and earn some money. Well must be loads of "shady" companies out there, even in CM.

You are very big on accusations Planet X. For the umpteenth time I am not encouraging anyone to do anything illegal I am just trying to point out to you that SOME people, can and do, work in the education system in Thailand and other Asian countries without a degree That is the reality of the situation.How many times do you have to be told by myself and other posters? If you can't accept it you really have a problem.

This thread has over 1200+ views so if you dont think people are reading your comments and feeling encouraged you have a problem

Young people that want to travel and take advantage of the poor Thai educational system at the expense of young Thai children -- thats great

your a clown

Please abide by Thaivisa's rules:

Per forum rules:

In using Thai Visa I agree:

1) To respect fellow members.

Next member disrespecting a fellow member will be issued a warning. OK? :jap:

[Thighlander]

So you are 100% legal but encourage others not to be because a shady TEFL company takes out a full page ad?

So now www.islandtefl.com is a "shady" company,because they took out an ad,plus several pages of participants experiences, in teaching, in a magazine which appeals to young people wishing to travel and earn some money. Well must be loads of "shady" companies out there, even in CM.

You are very big on accusations Planet X. For the umpteenth time I am not encouraging anyone to do anything illegal I am just trying to point out to you that SOME people, can and do, work in the education system in Thailand and other Asian countries without a degree That is the reality of the situation.How many times do you have to be told by myself and other posters? If you can't accept it you really have a problem.

This thread has over 1200+ views so if you dont think people are reading your comments and feeling encouraged you have a problem

Young people that want to travel and take advantage of the poor Thai educational system at the expense of young Thai children -- thats great

your a clown

What is your problem? What about young people who want to travel and make a contribution at the same time? What is that costing "young Thai children."????

They are making a contribution to the crooked TEFL course providers--nothing else. The education system will not improve until the foreigners quit working illegally and start raising holy Hell, when they are not paid, as agreed.

[jdinasia]

They are making a contribution to the crooked TEFL course providers--nothing else. The education system will not improve until the foreigners quit working illegally and start raising holy Hell, when they are not paid, as agreed.

Ummm again, while I believe that quality education is vital MANY of these young and enthusiastic people are often better teachers than their thoroughly legal counterparts that are teaching here for almost exactly the same reasons. ie: to stay in Thailand. I understand that you may have an opinion based upon ideals, but let's be a bit more honest. Until the Thai teachers that are teaching English start teaching it using English then all the foreign English teacher will be able to accomplish is to,hopefully, get the young learners a bit more involved and interested in learning English. Most public schools have students meeting with the foreign teacher as little as once a week for 50 minutes and in a class size of up to 50 students. That is 1 minute a week per student 1:1 time with the teacher IF the teacher does nothing else.

Improving English language education in Thai schools will require a paradigm shift that starts with the Thai teachers.

[Throatwobbler]

wrong post replied to.

Edited February 26, 2011 by Throatwobbler

[Throatwobbler]

Sparkles -- I am slightly confused about your posts because you seem to be pretty confident about teachers getting jobs without degrees but your only experience is that your daughter used the Chaing Mai educational system to fund her holiday - am I wrong?

I am sure she worked very hard but at the end of the day the reason she did it was to fund her trip in thailand at the cost of the education of Thai children so she was part of the problem and not part of the solution

I agree that pay is low but the quality of life still beats unemployment in the West and if you look around you will see about 100,000 teachers having been laid off since 2009 so there are more and more real teachers available willing to work for less

I just find your comments woefully ignorant about the current situation and they are dangerous because many of the 1,000+ views of this thread will be interested in this and find your comments encouraging

"Teachers" without degrees will be working illegally because they cant get a work permit in a time that the Thai MOE is cracking down harder and harder on foreign teachers. Either these people will be set up for failure after a year or so or worse they will only be using it to fund extended holidays at the cost of the education of children. Is this really what you are encouraging?

The problem is that a lot of the teachers who are fully qualified are qualified in first language teaching and here we are dealing with teaching in a second language. Some of the worst demoes I've seen have been by fully qualified teachers. They were at the front of the class droning on and not realizing the kids were understanding nothing.

What I'm trying to say is that just because you are a qualified teacher from home doesn't mean you can cut it in a Thai school where you are dealing with kids with limited language.

[Throatwobbler]

So you are 100% legal but encourage others not to be because a shady TEFL company takes out a full page ad?

So now www.islandtefl.com is a "shady" company,because they took out an ad,plus several pages of participants experiences, in teaching, in a magazine which appeals to young people wishing to travel and earn some money. Well must be loads of "shady" companies out there, even in CM.

You are very big on accusations Planet X. For the umpteenth time I am not encouraging anyone to do anything illegal I am just trying to point out to you that SOME people, can and do, work in the education system in Thailand and other Asian countries without a degree That is the reality of the situation.How many times do you have to be told by myself and other posters? If you can't accept it you really have a problem.

This thread has over 1200+ views so if you dont think people are reading your comments and feeling encouraged you have a problem

Young people that want to travel and take advantage of the poor Thai educational system at the expense of young Thai children -- thats great

your a clown

A lot of them are not costing the Thai kids anything. A lot of them are giving them the chance to use what English they have with a native speaker. This helps a lot in helping kids over come their shyness in using English which is a major obstacle. It also helps build their confidence when they realize that native speakers do understand what they are saying to them. This is an incredible help to the Thai kid.

You yourself seem to be very bitter about something.

[PaulD]

"Some of the worst demoes I've seen have been by fully qualified teachers. They were at the front of the class droning on and not realizing the kids were understanding nothing.

What I'm trying to say is that just because you are a qualified teacher from home doesn't mean you can cut it in a Thai school where you are dealing with kids with limited language."

This might well have been true, but it illustrates that poor foreign teachers exist, as if we didn't know. I have difficulty accepting an argument based on a few personal examples, though they serve of course as illustrations or might show exceptions.

But the point that a "qualified" teacher - if said teacher has been trained in recent decades - will miss large scale incomprehension among students might illustrate that we are all human and have faults. But virtually all teachers have been trained to "check for understanding" almost every step of the way, to evaluate what has been received and if it was comprehended and can be applied. Retention as well, and review later. I don't speak about older generations.

We all will recall exceptions from our youth - teachers who "don't explain," and I gather that here such checks-as-you-go are not common, or questions entertained, or oral practice encouraged, or pupil interaction used as a strategy. That is, teacher training from the west may these days have great applicability here, and experienced or intuitive teachers will have taken advantage.

But nothing can replace energy, an alert intellect, an open minded willingness to learn, and great commitment. I say again that without these virtues, no candidate will succeed - or should indeed, apply, for that applicant is just hoping for a paid vacation in a nice foreign place. The issue is not "can I;" it is "should I?"

Or look at it this way: Full time, it's usually a lot of work with hours beyond 40 and the mind occupied much beyond that. It can be beautiful for what it is, but not because of Thailand - the goal and gold is succeeding with kids

Edited February 26, 2011 by PaulD

[Loaded]

The problem is that a lot of the teachers who are fully qualified are qualified in first language teaching and here we are dealing with teaching in a second language. Some of the worst demoes I've seen have been by fully qualified teachers. They were at the front of the class droning on and not realizing the kids were understanding nothing.

What I'm trying to say is that just because you are a qualified teacher from home doesn't mean you can cut it in a Thai school where you are dealing with kids with limited language.

Good point. For example, I see licensed teachers from the UK, USA or Australia starting their 'Colours' vocabulary lesson to Pratom 1 by introducing the lesson this way: "Today we will talk about colours. Can anyone name me a colour?" Remember, you are teaching basic vocabulary (red, blue, green etc) to students with a very limited lexis of possibly 30 words of English, but the teacher has used a verb tense (Future Simple) and a modal verb (Can) plus infinitive for ability in its interrogative form. Within 20 seconds the teacher has overwhelmed the students with language they do not understand, so they switch to something they do understand: games, chatting, eating, punching Somchai, going to the bathroom etc. The teacher then complains about their 'naughty' students who 'don't want to study'.

Lack of cultural awareness is another problem teachers coming straight to Thailand experience. They have no understanding of the hierarchy within a Thai school and how to communicate within this hierarchy. They can be loud, emotional and confrontational. All behaviours that will ensure that teacher is avoided by the Thai staff. They step over students' work and pat them on their heads. They tend to be inflexible and cannot cope with the lack of planning and communication typical of a Thai school.

Edited February 26, 2011 by Loaded

[PaulD]

The problem is that a lot of the teachers who are fully qualified are qualified in first language teaching and here we are dealing with teaching in a second language. Some of the worst demoes I've seen have been by fully qualified teachers. They were at the front of the class droning on and not realizing the kids were understanding nothing.

What I'm trying to say is that just because you are a qualified teacher from home doesn't mean you can cut it in a Thai school where you are dealing with kids with limited language.

Good point. For example, I see licensed teachers from the UK, USA or Australia starting their 'Colours' vocabulary lesson to Pratom 1 by introducing the lesson this way: "Today we will talk about colours. Can anyone name me a colour?" Remember, you are teaching basic vocabulary (red, blue, green etc) to students with a very limited lexis of possibly 30 words of English, but the teacher has used a verb tense (Future Simple) and a modal verb (Can) plus infinitive for ability in its interrogative form. Within 20 seconds the teacher has overwhelmed the students with language they do not understand, so they switch to something they do understand: games, chatting, eating, punching Somchai, going to the bathroom etc. The teacher then complains about their 'naughty' students who 'don't want to study'.

Lack of cultural awareness is another problem teachers coming straight to Thailand experience. They have no understanding of the hierarchy within a Thai school and how to communicate within this hierarchy. They can be loud, emotional and confrontational. All behaviours that will ensure that teacher is avoided by the Thai staff. They step over students' work and pat them on their heads. They tend to be inflexible and cannot cope with the lack of planning and communication typical of a Thai school.

A. All three nations named above have received large populations of immigrants. Urban teachers in particular must necessarily have learned ways to improve instruction to non-native speakers and non-speakers. There are workshops, uni classes and so forth, sometimes required. Still, most "experienced" teachers will not be prepared in this regard. Non-teachers will all be clueless, not to the concept, but as to how to instruct.

B. This selecting of "some" to prove points should be understood, I think, as examples of oblivious types. It is as if someone had a bias or a point to make - without studies or statistics.

C. Still, it might be argued that "trained" and "experienced" teachers who end up in Chiang Mai are dim-witted, rather more than Western teachers in general.

D. Cannot see that anything above suggests that an off-the-street candidate with no experience or training will intrinsically offer any merit except innocence (ignorance).

E. Obviously, an open mind knowing that improvement must be constant forever may well carry the day.

F. The idea that "a demonstration lesson" is anything more than a flash in the pan or jumping through a hoop in the style required by some institution is silly, like most tests.

[ELCata]

Some well taken points about 'qualified' teachers, although I don't understand the need for parentheses.

BTW a teacher, unqualified or not, should never 'drone on' in front of any class. A short introduction less than 10 minutes duration is more than enough & should be used to establish the current level of understanding of the students, in the absence of initial testing (or not actually). We NQTs know that students switch off after 10 minutes of teacher led presentations. What should follow, in EFL particularly, is fast paced, varied paired or group activities (preferably games), with the teacher observing & acting a facilitator when needed.

[notlogic]

What if you have a university degree, but no TEFL? How hard is it to find an English-teaching position then?

Does it matter what kind of degree you have?

(moving to Chiang Mai in a few weeks for at least 6 months, maybe longer)

[newbie001]

A TEFL is not required but sometimes asked for by schools that cater to young learners. The issue is that you will not be here for a year so no one will give you a contract knowing that you will quit on them. You can find part time work though but at most it pays around 300 baht (250 is more standard though) an hour unless you have special skills or contacts.

Finding a job is hit and miss in Chiang Mai. There are a lot of schools but most pay crap and work is crap and mismanagement is abundant. Good jobs will require experience and qualifications.

I love reading how people claim that they know someone without degrees making 50K plus a month. All I ever say is what school? I know a few of the directors and a few members of board of directors at many of the private schools in the area and I know for a fact that they don't hire people without degrees and they do not pay anyone 50K a month. Most academic directors are making 40-50K.

Unfortunately, someone with 20 years experience gets paid the same as someone fresh out of school. You do not get higher salary for experience or qualifications at the private schools in the area. The salary is capped and only increases for years dedicated to that school. So someone who works at Dara for 10 years and goes to Prince Royal will be paid the same as someone who never taught before. That is why people don't tend to leave their jobs here unless they leave Thailand. There is very low turnover at many schools that have proper management and don't hire transient backpackers.

And for Loaded's comments. I did not state 20-40K extra for government schools. That was at private schools like Dara, Prince Royal and Montfort. I know for a fact because I know what I pay for my son to study extra class and I know how many students are in his class.

[notlogic]

A TEFL is not required but sometimes asked for by schools that cater to young learners. The issue is that you will not be here for a year so no one will give you a contract knowing that you will quit on them.

Thanks for the info. The reason I said 6 months and maybe longer is that, if I don't find a job, I'll leave in August. If I find a job, I could see myself staying 2 years or longer, if allowed.

I'm currently going to Thailand on a renewable tourist Visa. If I find a job teaching English, is it possible to switch to a different Visa with a work permit, or would I have to leave the country again?

Sorry if these are newbie questions, but I'm a newbie and there's a lot of information to sift through.

[newbie001]

You can change a tourist visa to a Non B visa but only in Bangkok.

[Thighlander]

A TEFL is not required but sometimes asked for by schools that cater to young learners. The issue is that you will not be here for a year so no one will give you a contract knowing that you will quit on them.

Thanks for the info. The reason I said 6 months and maybe longer is that, if I don't find a job, I'll leave in August. If I find a job, I could see myself staying 2 years or longer, if allowed.

I'm currently going to Thailand on a renewable tourist Visa. If I find a job teaching English, is it possible to switch to a different Visa with a work permit, or would I have to leave the country again?

Sorry if these are newbie questions, but I'm a newbie and there's a lot of information to sift through.

you will need to go to Vientianne, and it's going to suck, and you will have to pay, and you still won't have a WP or a TL.

[jdinasia]

you will need to go to Vientianne, and it's going to suck, and you will have to pay, and you still won't have a WP or a TL.

He will indeed likely need to go to Lao or KL. He may get a WP. He will probably be able to get a waiver on the TL, or not need one at all.

[newbie001]

If he has a tourist visa and not just the 30 day entry permit, he can easily change the tourist visa to a Non B in BKK.

All legitimate schools will give him a work permit which he can then extend into the 1 year. He will get a waiver on the teacher's license as all new teachers with degrees do. Some government schools can get around this but private schools cannot that is why they don't hire without degrees.

[jdinasia]

BTW -----

When running your CV's around to schools/programs, DRESS APPROPRIATELY for an interview. I actually had someone in one of our offices today that came in wearing shorts, flipflops, and a sweat stained T-shirt. He wasn't happy when I told him he wouldn't be getting an interview.

If you are looking for work dress like you are looking for work- full-stop.

[Sparkles]

So you are 100% legal but encourage others not to be because a shady TEFL company takes out a full page ad?

So now www.islandtefl.com is a "shady" company,because they took out an ad,plus several pages of participants experiences, in teaching, in a magazine which appeals to young people wishing to travel and earn some money. Well must be loads of "shady" companies out there, even in CM.

You are very big on accusations Planet X. For the umpteenth time I am not encouraging anyone to do anything illegal I am just trying to point out to you that SOME people, can and do, work in the education system in Thailand and other Asian countries without a degree That is the reality of the situation.How many times do you have to be told by myself and other posters? If you can't accept it you really have a problem.

This thread has over 1200+ views so if you dont think people are reading your comments and feeling encouraged you have a problem

Young people that want to travel and take advantage of the poor Thai educational system at the expense of young Thai children -- thats great

your a clown

A lot of them are not costing the Thai kids anything. A lot of them are giving them the chance to use what English they have with a native speaker. This helps a lot in helping kids over come their shyness in using English which is a major obstacle. It also helps build their confidence when they realize that native speakers do understand what they are saying to them. This is an incredible help to the Thai kid.

You yourself seem to be very bitter about something.

Throatwarbler you have eloquently summed it up. Planet X having to resort to abuse ,albeit grammatically incorrect,to my knowledge and experience just confirms he is desperately out of touch. Not that he would ever contemplate doing it but I would suggest to him that he,or anybody else spend some time in a classroom as an observer with a young teacher interacting with young Thai children. It's a very rewarding experience.

[scorecard]

Need fully qualified and well experienced English teacher 6 hrs per day (3 groups X 2 hrs) x 2 days per week, company site 10 minutes from Lampung. Company will provide transport from CM or similar and return each day. Company will provide professional course materials, as recommended by teacher, probably 3 levels, small groups.

PM me if interested.

Thanks.

Edited March 3, 2011 by scorecard

[Thighlander]

Sounds like another Rip-off. Allow 25 minutes to get to the van, a 45 minute to "Lampung" (is that on the border of Lamphun and Lampang, by chance?), 6 hours of teaching, etc...You're looking at 10 hours door to door for maybe 1200 per day, if they actually pay you, which is doubtful. And then there is the working illegally aspect. You would be netting three times more picking lettuce in the US, as an illegal worker, and you would have a lot more rights if you didn't get paid.

Edited March 5, 2011 by sbk
sorry no name and shame

[scorecard]

Sounds like another Rip-off. Allow 25 minutes to get to the van, a 45 minute to "Lampung" (is that on the border of Lamphun and Lampang, by chance?), 6 hours of teaching, etc...You're looking at 10 hours door to door for maybe 1200 per day, if they actually pay you, which is doubtful. And then there is the working illegally aspect. You would be netting three times more picking lettuce in the US, as an illegal worker, and you would have a lot more rights if you didn't get paid.

Dear Thighlander,

I don't apprecaite your response with no information whatever to go on. And therefore why would you instantly compare this with copmany whatever that is? And on what basis do make a statement that it's doubtful the teacher will be paid?

Whether it's right or wrong, fair or not fair, teaching English in Thailand attracts a certain rate of pay. That's life.

In fact the company concerned is a very old established successful and large engineering company in the Lampung area with head office in Bangkok.

The company is highly respected locally, takes care of and cares for, and respects it's quite large operational staff. And it has no intent to rip off anybody. It is not a stingy organization, it pays promptly, my fees have never been one day late.

Travel time is about 1hr 10 minutes to 1hr 20 minutes from CM to the site, driver will pick up teacher wherever teacher nominates. Transport will be a car, new pick-up, or mini van with responsible reliable well experienced driver.

Yes total time per day will be about 9 - 10 hours, perhaps a little less. But is that really and different if you consider travel times to get to work and back in most large cities?

The hourly rate of pay is yet to be determined, however it will be according to what is needed to attract, maintain continuity, and well reward a professional experienced properly qualified teacher.

And I can assure you that it will be way above the 1,200Baht a day total that you suggest.

The company pays appropriate to the results it is looking for.

In fact a rough estimate would be that the monthly total would be roughly (for 2 days a week, six hours per day) just a bit short of what teachers at English language schools in CM earn for a full month of teaching.

I will make the decision of which teacher to employ and the teacher who quotes the lowest rate will not automatically get the job.

Classes will be twice a week for each group and the planning at the moment is for 3 classes x 2 hours each class, on two days of each week.

The company will pay for profesional testing materials, for professional course books, and reasonable costs for any additional materials the teacher requests. Classes will be small, best estimate is 10 to 12 students per group, mostly young engineers who are all very keen to learn English for their own future and because of likely company expansion.

The company is very realistic that it will take quite some time to develop the English levels desired, therefore there is also the likelyhood that the program will continue for quite some time, if the progress is good.

There will be an air-conditioned class room, lunch and coffee etc., provided at no charge. Photocopy facilities and whatever is needed will be available plus help, basically with no limits, no charge to the teacher.

There is a training co-ordinator on site, she is focused, friendly, proactive, and highly cooperative, she speaks about lower intermediate English.

Senior Thai management at the site are very supportive of this initiative and will be there for anything the teacher needs, they all speak English, are very approachable, good listeners, and will quickly take care of any concerns.

I am on site all week every second week, and I will monitor progress, and ensure any concerns, from teacher, students, or company are resolved quickly.

Several people have replied and I am meeting them in Chiang Mai tomorrow (Sunday 6th March) between about 12 noon to 2:30pm, the meeting place will be the BRIX restaurant at Montri Hotel, Pratu Tar Pear. Look for an old farang with grey hair.

I'm flying to CM early flight tomorrow morning Sun 6th. I will check for any PMs late this evening. If you would like to meet then please bring paper copies of CV, certificates etc.

I will also be in Chiang Mai the following Friday afternoon 11th March for several hours , If you would like to meet, then please PM to me, and I will give you my e.mail address so you can forward your CV, scans of certificates etc.

Requirements that are non-negotiable:

- Must be TEFL certified

- Must be well experienced, and references must be supplied

- Must have professional friendly approach, must be culturally aware

- Reliability

Qualifications and references will be checked.

Thank you.

[Loaded]

Scorecard

Thighlander doesn't need to substantiate his comments as he knows everything. When he posted 'what a rip off' and then supported his statement with silliness, I'm sure I wasn't the only person here to see through him. Thanks for your last post as I'm sure there will be many people interested in this opportunity. If they're not, they don't need to apply.

[Thighlander]

Ok, I sounded harsh...but you are clearly evading Non-Imm B issues, which you will need to get a WP, as Well as WP issues, which you may need to get a Non-Imm B.

Sound like Catch 22? It is.

Perhaps you are talking about Lampung, Indonesia?

[scorecard]

Ok, I sounded harsh...but you are clearly evading Non-Imm B issues, which you will need to get a WP, as Well as WP issues, which you may need to get a Non-Imm B.

Sound like Catch 22? It is.

Perhaps you are talking about Lampung, Indonesia?

Quote from Thighlander: "..........but you are clearly evading Non-Imm B issues, which you will need to get a WP, as Well as WP issues, which you may need to get a Non-Imm B.

Sound like Catch 22? It is. ......."

Again you make categoric statements without knowing the facts, without full information. I am talking about Lampung Thailand.

[scorecard]

Scorecard

Thighlander doesn't need to substantiate his comments as he knows everything. When he posted 'what a rip off' and then supported his statement with silliness, I'm sure I wasn't the only person here to see through him. Thanks for your last post as I'm sure there will be many people interested in this opportunity. If they're not, they don't need to apply.

Thanks loaded.

[Loaded]

Ok, I sounded harsh...

That's not the adjective I had in mind.

[Thighlander]

Scorecard, I can't blame you for not naming the engineering company, but you could at least name your company--It just might show that you have the authority to hire someone, or better yet, run an ad in a Help Wanted section. I would be very careful, who obtained a copy of my personal information. I typed "Lampung" into Google, and the first thing to come up was "did you mean Lampang"?

[jdinasia]

Scorecard, I can't blame you for not naming the engineering company, but you could at least name your company--It just might show that you have the authority to hire someone, or better yet, run an ad in a Help Wanted section. I would be very careful, who obtained a copy of my personal information. I typed "Lampung" into Google, and the first thing to come up was "did you mean Lampang"?

His company isn't any of your business. You attacked from the start based upon no knowledge. You compared him to people with a poor history/reputation (and thus named and shamed them) and insulting him in the comparison .. and are now focusing on a typo he has repeated. Why the animosity?

Your other stuff --- like needing a non-imm-B to get a WP is also flawed, since you don't need a non-imm-B to get a WP.