Farm Tractor

[Mobaan]

Please help me make a decision . I am no expert and hope you can point out what I am missing.

I try to decide to either buy a mid sized tractor with some implements ,say for 500000 THB , or hire the work out.

I assume a 20 year life of the tractor , so that would be an annual depreciation of 25000 TBH or 125 THB per hour ( if worked for 200 hours per year.)

Next I would count on about 3000 TBH every 100 hours for oilchange etc ,which would mean 30 THB per hour.

I assume an average of 2 liter diesel consumption per wrk hour , so that would be 60TBH

If I count for 5 % interest /opportunity cost on 500 000 THB that costs me another 125 THB per hour

for a grand total of 340 TBH per work hour.

Wages for the driver (that would be me are negated)

What did I miss in my calculations ?

Sure there will be some repairs , cost for parts etc , but I have a hard time putting a number to that -would 60 THB be enough to bring the grand total to 400 THB per hour?

Important ( to me ) will be the fact that I can get things done when and how I want them to be done .

I invite everybody to add ,correct or whatever . All input is welcome.

[glomp]

How much could you leverage that 500k by instead renting the tractor work?

Having that tractor collecting rust will be expensive unless you have a lot of land. Tractors with drivers seems to be renting cheapish?

Edit: do some searching in the forum. there are threads here and in other forums where owning tractors are discussed. it's hard to make ends meet even with an iron horse sometimes it seems.

Edited February 15, 2011 by glomp

[WatersEdge]

You will need more fuel than 2 liters per hour.

Variable with work load and size of tractor of course,

but 20 liters per hour will be a reasonable start.

I rented a Ford 6610 85 hp with disk plow and dozer blade,

fuel included in the price,

plus skilled operator for B600 per hour.

The work that he did was always a complete bargain.

I wondered the whole time how he could afford to work so cheaply.

He built a 2,200 m2 fish pond from a ridgetop / hillside in 90 hours

Another operator wanted generous money for a powerless tractor,

then ran an old disk over the ground barely breaking the surface,

still expecting to be paid.

If the area has plenty of tractor owners,

then owning your own tractor will not make sense.

If you are in an area with strong demand,

then you will have good business continually,

particularly if you are prepared to do the field work waiting for payment after harvest.

Low price carries the day,

but then the low price operators have no money to properly maintain equipment,

so you frequently find problems with tires, fuel pump, on and on the worn out issues mount.

[slapout]

How much land, number of crops/year, etc are you talking about?

As mentioned there are several topics that you can review on the subject, but unless you are looking at putting 1000 hours/year on a tractor for your own use, it is more a play toy/hobby.

[IsaanAussie]

I bought a 2nd hand tractor about 3 years ago. There was one 6610 in the area and work was easy to get at 350 to 400 per rai. My use was not for ploughing alone but as a wheelbarrow as well. I also didnt buy it to hire out, that was just icing. The tractor with FEL cost 200K and the plough, rotary and hill maker around 20-25 a piece. Mine is only a 1.3 litre 3 cylinder diesel and chews through about 3 litres per hour flat out. Today the scene is different, tractors everywhere, 250 per rai top dollar for anything. My tractor has a hydraulic pump problem that will cost 10K to fix. It can sit where it is at the moment.

If you have the hours for it to do, then buy it. But as Slapout says, else it is really a plaything. All hobbies have a cost, you be the judge.

If you want my opinion, hire first, do the maths, then if it makes sense, buy.

Isaan Aussie

[Gary A]

Years ago I wanted a little four wheel drive diesel tractor. I could never justify it. Now I am retired and living in Loei province. No way could I justify buying one of those little tractors. I bought one anyways. My Thai wife says I wasted my money but I wanted it and bought it. It is a four wheel drive 31 HP three cylinder Yanmar. It has a rototiller, dozer blade and disk plow. It will NEVER pay for itself but it my toy and I enjoy it. We hire one of the local 6610 Ford tractors for heavy work because I refuse to abuse my little Yanmar. If you want a toy, buy one. If you have serious work to do, hire a local with a bigger tractor.

[kwonitoy]

When I had 50Rai of rubber and less I rented all the tractor work I needed, 250Baht/Rai. They would come in with the old 6610 ford's and do a hurry up job that was ok but not really that good. Offers of more money to do extra thing here and there were refused. Now that I have more land I bought a 46hp Kubota with rototiller,front blade and disc plow. I can now do my work at my speed and to my satisfaction, like Gary it is my toy and it's one of the best thing I've bought in Thailand.

As for operating, when running the rototiller, (higher RPM and slower gear) for a 8 hr day I use max of 30L. When plowing (lower RPM and higher gear) I can get two full days from a 40L tank. I do some contracting out that the wife arranges but I bought it for my use and I don't like having her cousins drive the thing because

a. they don't know how,

b. they don't care about learning.

[Rinrada]

Sometimes we hire the one sometimes 2 but the going rate certainly up to last year in Mae-on was @ Bt400 an hour and the guys really work well...obviously get a bung afterwards but nothing too much trouble for them.

About 3 years ago I got them in to level a bit of a hill/wee mountain and no problem...like a billiard table...now overgrown again but at least it aint jungle any more and we can access.

Wifee wants one for Christmas.......gotta think what we could do if we were there for more than the odd week.

[Badboldie]

Is there not another farm in the area that you could buy together, and split cost pro rata on hours used.

[Badboldie]

duplicated post pls delete

Edited February 16, 2011 by Badboldie

[Foreverford]

I bought a 2nd hand tractor about 3 years ago. There was one 6610 in the area and work was easy to get at 350 to 400 per rai. My use was not for ploughing alone but as a wheelbarrow as well. I also didnt buy it to hire out, that was just icing. The tractor with FEL cost 200K and the plough, rotary and hill maker around 20-25 a piece. Mine is only a 1.3 litre 3 cylinder diesel and chews through about 3 litres per hour flat out. Today the scene is different, tractors everywhere, 250 per rai top dollar for anything. My tractor has a hydraulic pump problem that will cost 10K to fix. It can sit where it is at the moment.

If you have the hours for it to do, then buy it. But as Slapout says, else it is really a plaything. All hobbies have a cost, you be the judge.

If you want my opinion, hire first, do the maths, then if it makes sense, buy.

Isaan Aussie

Like I A says rent and observe. Then do the math. Is this a real money thing or do you want to play on a tractror, or do you have some custom stuff you want to have done your way. Otherwise rent rent rent for three years and see what you think with the equipment that is similar to what you want to buy. I assume you were talking new. IA can do work that a 6610 operator can't do because he knows his machine, the ground the moisture the final results he wants. the only problem with renting can be the inability to get someone to work when you really want something done. the other aspect is that you need to know how to operate or the rent rent rent idea will give you a chance to observe and learn. If you are a good mechanic and you can afford it i would recommend that after a few years of observing you would be ready to buy if you still feel it is prudent. Just a PS operating is and will always be rather dangerous, another reason to rent and observe first choke dee

[joker7]

Just returned from Phetchabun where I hired a tractor to plough 72 Rai for Sweetcorn prep.

3 stage disc - 350 baht / Rai

7 stage disc - 200 baht / Rai

Sow seed - 180 baht / Rai

Im guessing the wife's old man has also received a kickback as he usually does.

[WatersEdge]

Hi joker7

I'll be fascinated to hear the outcome

in terms of hourly Tractor rate

B350 Disk Plow

B200 Disk

B180 Seeding

=============

B730 per Rai.

x 72 Rai

===============

B52,560 Full Job

/ ?? Number of Tractor Hours

==================

B?,??? / hour

If you are able to observe the number of total hours to complete 72 rai,

then you can reach the hourly rate of the tractor.

At three successive passes over the ground,

on a relatively large field like this,

assuming long open runs,

it's a good field to work.

Having watched a similar job recently on 60 rai,

I'd guess from a distance that they were finished with the first two such passes in less than 20 hours.

If we ratio that estimate up to your 72 rai job and add a third planting pass,

It would be 36 hours,

which would come to B1,752 / hour

As I said above,

The rate here on a Ford 6610 85 hp Tractor is B600 / hour

including fuel and a good man in the seat.

That to me seems not worth the effort if I owned the tractor,

but I'm perfectly happy to be on the buying side of the deal.

A total job rate is a good measure of tractor capacity,

as the operator has no motive to go slow in order to rack up extra hours.

He will get it done as quickly as possible.

It's therefore important to have those numbers on record,

so that next time around you can bargain with reason accordingly.

Tractor men typically don't want to be confused with comparative numbers,

so don't expect a hearty welcome to your analysis.

There is probably an existing thread on this forum exactly describing tractor work parameters.

I admittedly did not search before responding here.

[joker7]

Yeh I was kinda suprised by the deal which was agreed. However this was by my wife's father rather than me. And of course he has a cut of the deal which is good for the family aswell. Most likely he will make between 5-10% on the deal so he is likely to walk away with 4,000 baht or so I reckon maybe more.

I just left yesterday and he must have racked up at least 10-12 hours already and was only 1/2 way through the first plow. With the rest of the land a lot dryer + all the roots he has been cutting up (due to the clearing we did) he is having to work out.

Have spoken to the wife see if I can get an estimate on the hours used.

Will let you know.

J

[Mobaan]

Thanks guys for your replies , keep them coming , so we can compare and help each other.

[jubby]

I've had a Kubota L3408 for a few years now.

I never thought it would pay for itself, never came into it.

Its not always possible to find good labour or a good tractor when you need it.

I mainly use it for cutting grass. I can cut as much grass in a couple of hours as my worker can cut with his brushcutter in 1 week. I do the bulk of the work and he tidies up where the tractor cant go. It also makes light work of making a fire break this time of year. I wouldn't be without it.

I've done quite a few other things with it too, mainly landscaping. Have an Idea in the morning and just go out and do it. back before my late breakfast.

[jubby]

double post

Edited February 20, 2011 by jubby

[Mobaan]

When I had 50Rai of rubber and less I rented all the tractor work I needed, 250Baht/Rai. They would come in with the old 6610 ford's and do a hurry up job that was ok but not really that good. Offers of more money to do extra thing here and there were refused. Now that I have more land I bought a 46hp Kubota with rototiller,front blade and disc plow. I can now do my work at my speed and to my satisfaction, like Gary it is my toy and it's one of the best thing I've bought in Thailand.

As for operating, when running the rototiller, (higher RPM and slower gear) for a 8 hr day I use max of 30L. When plowing (lower RPM and higher gear) I can get two full days from a 40L tank. I do some contracting out that the wife arranges but I bought it for my use and I don't like having her cousins drive the thing because

a. they don't know how,

b. they don't care about learning.

I send you a PM!!

[Mobaan]

Years ago I wanted a little four wheel drive diesel tractor. I could never justify it. Now I am retired and living in Loei province. No way could I justify buying one of those little tractors. I bought one anyways. My Thai wife says I wasted my money but I wanted it and bought it. It is a four wheel drive 31 HP three cylinder Yanmar. It has a rototiller, dozer blade and disk plow. It will NEVER pay for itself but it my toy and I enjoy it. We hire one of the local 6610 Ford tractors for heavy work because I refuse to abuse my little Yanmar. If you want a toy, buy one. If you have serious work to do, hire a local with a bigger tractor.

I send you a PM!!

[Foreverford]

Hi joker7

I'll be fascinated to hear the outcome

in terms of hourly Tractor rate

B350 Disk Plow

B200 Disk

B180 Seeding

=============

B730 per Rai.

x 72 Rai

===============

B52,560 Full Job

/ ?? Number of Tractor Hours

==================

B?,??? / hour

If you are able to observe the number of total hours to complete 72 rai,

then you can reach the hourly rate of the tractor.

At three successive passes over the ground,

on a relatively large field like this,

assuming long open runs,

it's a good field to work.

Having watched a similar job recently on 60 rai,

I'd guess from a distance that they were finished with the first two such passes in less than 20 hours.

If we ratio that estimate up to your 72 rai job and add a third planting pass,

It would be 36 hours,

which would come to B1,752 / hour

As I said above,

The rate here on a Ford 6610 85 hp Tractor is B600 / hour

including fuel and a good man in the seat.

That to me seems not worth the effort if I owned the tractor,

but I'm perfectly happy to be on the buying side of the deal.

A total job rate is a good measure of tractor capacity,

as the operator has no motive to go slow in order to rack up extra hours.

He will get it done as quickly as possible.

It's therefore important to have those numbers on record,

so that next time around you can bargain with reason accordingly.

Tractor men typically don't want to be confused with comparative numbers,

so don't expect a hearty welcome to your analysis.

There is probably an existing thread on this forum exactly describing tractor work parameters.

I admittedly did not search before responding here.

Boom Baby. Shock a lahkka. That's Sly and the Family Stone singing "Dance to the Music" I added the "Baby" part as man oh man I'll take the waters edge and 600 an hour but I'll take neither deal if I hit a root. tractor work is a too too bad situation if you go on a piece of land for the first time. issan Aussie will tell you about walking, I believe, his own piece of land to show the locaLS HOW YOU do it for the first time. Somewhere in the middle of it his tractor and plow (?) are one place laying on it's side and he is a long way off laying on the ground in another place. Tomasito was cleaqring some brush on a plot next to my farmm in Mexico and bulldozed a sleeping drunkard into another life. I hit a stump buried in a levee during a demo job near the Cambodian border in 6th gear on the 6610 and went stone dead stopped at near midnight and don't even have a clue how I remained on the rig. I have had D6 Cat Dozers buried in mud almost up to the cyclinder heads miles from nowhere in the Santa Cruz mountains of California. If your guys is using a "three" plow (sic) and pulling up roots I'd be mighty scared if i WAS OPERATING THERE. I think a Cat track layer with one or two huge rippers would be the first move on the land before putting any smaller stuff on it but obviously that's not the Thai way. My b-i-l brought me out to show me one of his first jobs after i got the old man the "new" ways that could be done when I BOUGHT THE fORD 6610. When i asked him the price he was going to charge i had to inform him at 300 baht an hour (supposedly the going rate) he wasn't going to even pay for fuel dam_n near. when i went out and saw the 10 rai in about 15 differnet plots with about 10-20 dead trees some cut down some to be cut down and the other 10-20 alive I had to explain that there was no price he could charge them to get the place ready for rice because he couldn't do the work and he would destroy the rig with all the hidden unknowns.

I got 1 1/2 inch diameter linked ship anchor chain and railroad tracks out of my farm in monterey california and the guuy that got stuck one year in the 10 wheeler bringing in the last load of refuse mushroom cuttings with his ten wheeler in early fall left an unseen hole that when i hit it the next spring with my rotary mower behind my 60 horse Ford it was Boom Shakka Lahkka Baby as it broke the entire rear lift arms completely off inside the differential of my bad baby. the repair for that don't even come close to being covered by your 55k baht deal to do your 72 rai. So I say go man go if he will wade into your root strewn mystery rais at a set price go for it and after it is all done and somebody has ahauled away or burned all your roots and there are big stakes whereever the mystery buried root stumps are from the Khmer era are you will then be able to feel good to put someone on the land at a certain price per hour then. To do our small farm when we first bought it leveees and all it would take my b-i-l more than a day to do the entire job and it was rough on the tractor. The "new" way now allows me to blow through the dam_n thing in a few hours and hardly touch the clutch. techniique, equipment and design are all factors that will afffect the job the cost and the performance and finished job. good luck and "roots rock and reggae" but that was said by another great singer. Fords Boom Baby Fords