Tackling Graft In Thailand Can No Longer Be Seen As A Joke

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EDITORIAL

Tackling graft can no longer be seen as a joke

By The Nation

If Thailand does not start to combat the problem of pervasive corruption, public anger will boil over and politics will descend into more chaos

A recently announced joint effort by two government agencies responsible for combating corruption must not become another publicity stunt. On February 10, the Office of the Public Sector Anti-Corruption Commission and the Office of the National Anti-Corruption Commission signed an agreement to tackle graft, which is now a chronic problem in this country.

Corruption is widely recognised as one of the major issues disrupting the economic and social progress of Thailand. According to the latest ranking by the Transparency International Corruption Index, Thailand ranks 84th in the world, which is far from satisfactory. The kingdom scored only 3.5 out of 10 in the honesty ranking, which ranges from zero for highly corrupt to 10 for very clean.

Almost every poll conducted among business people and the general public comes up with the result that most people are disgusted at the level of chronic corruption in Thailand. But nothing is ever effectively done to fix it. Thailand cannot remain complacent about the widespread problem of corruption. Last year the kingdom hosted an international meeting to discuss efforts to reduce corruption, in which the National Anti-Corruption Commission came up with four resolutions to try to fix the problem.

These include: instilling desirable, ethical values and discipline in every section of society; making joint efforts to prevent and suppress corruption; enhancing the strength of anti-corruption agencies; and creating professionals to carry out anti-corruption measures. Failure to show the world the result of these efforts would be shameful.

But perhaps unsurprisingly, the effort made so far has not been promising. The anti-corruption agencies are faced with a great deal of red tape that prevents them from efficiently investigating cases relating to corruption. The relevant agencies must have full independence, flexibility and authority to carry out their duties, instead of being constantly pressured by politicians and people in power.

Although corruption-related news arises almost on a daily basis, very few cases are pursued satisfactorily to the end. Therefore, wrongdoers are not discouraged or deterred, and they continue to abuse their power. They steal public money and they continue to get away with it.

It is essential that the anti-corruption agencies cooperate and show that they will not let alleged culprits disappear until investigations are final and the guilty are brought to book.

They can start with the 300 cases currently under investigation by the Office of the Public Sector Anti-Corruption Commission. These cases must be pursued promptly to a final conclusion, free of interference from people in high positions. If the agency can show that it is serious about these allegations, there may be some hope for Thailand to end the shameless theft of taxpayers' money.

In addition, the anti-graft effort will need cooperation from the public and the government. The public and media should continue piling on the pressure to prevent and combat corruption at all levels.

The government, for its part, must demonstrate to the public that it will not tolerate further abuses. But this will be a thankless task. Politicians and people in powerful positions are more likely to succumb to the temptations of graft because their rulings and decisions can be translated into the loss or gain of millions or billions of baht for certain stakeholders.

If senior government ministers can show that they won't tolerate corruption, then their subordinates and public officials are more likely to be discouraged from committing the crime.

Combating corruption may sound like a meaningless cliche in Thailand because the issue has never been fixed. But the warning in the form of public anger is real. An increasing number of people are aware of the extent of the problem and they are disgusted by it.

The rise of the yellow-shirt movement stemmed from disgust at certain politicians who became unusually rich as a result of unfair concessions and monopolies being granted at the expense of the public purse. The rise of the red-shirt movement came from a growing discontent among the public over the inequity of wealth distribution - largely because of corruption and cronyism.

If we don't start to seriously address this cancer in our society, don't be surprised if more people form new colour movements that will rise and create further chaos to topple people in power.

-- The Nation 2011-02-17

[mark45y]

Recently in an ABAC poll, “According to the Poll director, Noppadol Kannikar, the survey was conducted among 3,971 persons in 28 provinces nationwide to determine their perspective whether they could accept corruption in the government. Results showed that Thais who can accept government corruption still remains high at 64 percent.

Mark45y to the Nation, "I don't think so."

[random]

I don't think it is acceptance of the corruption, based on most Thais I discuss this with it is just an acceptance that they can't do anything about it.

[Nisa]

I don't think it is acceptance of the corruption, based on most Thais I discuss this with it is just an acceptance that they can't do anything about it.

ABAC Poll: Thai people can accept govt corruption

BANGKOK, 6 February 2011 (NNT) - According to ABAC Poll, Thai society can accept government corruption if they can also make the country prosperous, people live happily and also receive some benefits

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/440383-abac-poll-thai-people-can-accept-govt-corruption/

[doggie888888]

I don't think it is acceptance of the corruption, based on most Thais I discuss this with it is just an acceptance that they can't do anything about it.

ABAC Poll: Thai people can accept govt corruption

BANGKOK, 6 February 2011 (NNT) - According to ABAC Poll, Thai society can accept government corruption if they can also make the country prosperous, people live happily and also receive some benefits

http://www.thaivisa....ovt-corruption/

But if you then ask: would you still accept government corruption if you can also be prosperous (perhaps even more so) without it? I think the answer would be a "no". If the answer is "yes", then there is something wrong with the entire system/culture that results in this because it means people are worried that they would somehow lose out if the $$$ are not given to grease the wheels.

[barka]

It cant work because corruption is INGRAINED in THAILAND from top to bottom from POLITICS,GOVERNMENT,POLICE, ARMY,CIVIL SERVICE ,etc,Show me anyone who can make this work and I WILL FLY THEM TO THE MOON..With..Richard Branson on his Virgin Spaceship....are you ready...PM ABIHSIT?

[Nisa]

I don't think it is acceptance of the corruption, based on most Thais I discuss this with it is just an acceptance that they can't do anything about it.

ABAC Poll: Thai people can accept govt corruption

BANGKOK, 6 February 2011 (NNT) - According to ABAC Poll, Thai society can accept government corruption if they can also make the country prosperous, people live happily and also receive some benefits

http://www.thaivisa....ovt-corruption/

But if you then ask: would you still accept government corruption if you can also be prosperous (perhaps even more so) without it? I think the answer would be a "no". If the answer is "yes", then there is something wrong with the entire system/culture that results in this because it means people are worried that they would somehow lose out if the $ are not given to grease the wheels.

Corruption is everywhere but in developing type nations it is much more prevalent and accepted. I believe Thais in their general attitude just accept corruption is part of the system and always will be and that is simply the way things get done ... and many times done more efficiently. I think your hypothetical question would be viewed as very unrealistic to most Thais. At least that is my opinion.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Nisa

[bitterbatter]

Unless, they start paying the police a better wage, then grafting in the police force will not be stopped any time soon.

[avalonmick]

Good social researchers know that you predetermine the results of polls by the way you frame the question. The answer here clearly says: yes I can tolerate corruption as long as I get my 30%.

I don't think it is acceptance of the corruption, based on most Thais I discuss this with it is just an acceptance that they can't do anything about it.

ABAC Poll: Thai people can accept govt corruption

BANGKOK, 6 February 2011 (NNT) - According to ABAC Poll, Thai society can accept government corruption if they can also make the country prosperous, people live happily and also receive some benefits

http://www.thaivisa....ovt-corruption/

[avalonmick]

The problem is that where corrupt activities are technically illegal but few are punished for it then the benefits always flow upwards - those at the bottom get nothing while those at the top get a lot. Corruption is simply a pyramid selling scheme where there is little or no option not to participate.

In Thailand the benefits flow so far up that nothing will ever be done about staunching the flow.

I don't think it is acceptance of the corruption, based on most Thais I discuss this with it is just an acceptance that they can't do anything about it.

ABAC Poll: Thai people can accept govt corruption

BANGKOK, 6 February 2011 (NNT) - According to ABAC Poll, Thai society can accept government corruption if they can also make the country prosperous, people live happily and also receive some benefits

http://www.thaivisa....ovt-corruption/

But if you then ask: would you still accept government corruption if you can also be prosperous (perhaps even more so) without it? I think the answer would be a "no". If the answer is "yes", then there is something wrong with the entire system/culture that results in this because it means people are worried that they would somehow lose out if the $ are not given to grease the wheels.

Corruption is everywhere but in developing type nations it is much more prevalent and accepted. I believe Thais in their general attitude just accept corruption is part of the system and always will be and that is simply the way things get done ... and many times done more efficiently. I think your hypothetical question would be viewed as very unrealistic to most Thais. At least that is my opinion.

[mark45y]

Unless, they start paying the police a better wage, then grafting in the police force will not be stopped any time soon.

I believe they pay the top cops a good wage and the top cops are the most corrupt. Methinks one should look to Singapore for an example. Singapore in the 1960's was very much like Thailand. What happened to change things?

[doggie888888]

I don't think it is acceptance of the corruption, based on most Thais I discuss this with it is just an acceptance that they can't do anything about it.

ABAC Poll: Thai people can accept govt corruption

BANGKOK, 6 February 2011 (NNT) - According to ABAC Poll, Thai society can accept government corruption if they can also make the country prosperous, people live happily and also receive some benefits

http://www.thaivisa....ovt-corruption/

But if you then ask: would you still accept government corruption if you can also be prosperous (perhaps even more so) without it? I think the answer would be a "no". If the answer is "yes", then there is something wrong with the entire system/culture that results in this because it means people are worried that they would somehow lose out if the $ are not given to grease the wheels.

Corruption is everywhere but in developing type nations it is much more prevalent and accepted. I believe Thais in their general attitude just accept corruption is part of the system and always will be and that is simply the way things get done ... and many times done more efficiently. I think your hypothetical question would be viewed as very unrealistic to most Thais. At least that is my opinion.

Sadly, half of me tend to agree with you. Is the acceptance because nobody has ever shown (or educated them to analyse) that things can still get done efficiently and effectively with minimal corruption? Is it acceptance or just despair/hopelessness about the state of affairs? The corruption I read in the BKK Post on a daily basis is BREATHTAKING, considering the poverty that exists. ANd the mickey mouse efforts to counter/punish such corruption is equally breathtaking in their sheer stupidity and lack of real substance. Can things get any worse without corruption?

[Nisa]

Unless, they start paying the police a better wage, then grafting in the police force will not be stopped any time soon.

I believe they pay the top cops a good wage and the top cops are the most corrupt. Methinks one should look to Singapore for an example. Singapore in the 1960's was very much like Thailand. What happened to change things?

50 years

If I am reading you right I do agree that "top' police make good salaries. But the current starting pay for a cop in BKK is about 7500 baht a month. They are afforded free housing if the live in the police barracks but I believe they also have to pay for their own gun in uniform and possibly in many cases vehicle. I am making an assumption on the gun & uniform because I still see BKK police wearing the outdated uniform as well as a variety of different guns where some look to be about 60 years old. I have also been told by numerous police that they need to actually pay if they want to be promoted.

Personally I like the model of that you only need to really pay for police if you need them. Yes it would be great if so many things here were more modern and followed western traditions but then what would be the point of coming here?

Edited February 17, 2011 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Corruption is everywhere but in developing type nations it is much more prevalent and accepted. I believe Thais in their general attitude just accept corruption is part of the system and always will be and that is simply the way things get done ... and many times done more efficiently. I think your hypothetical question would be viewed as very unrealistic to most Thais. At least that is my opinion.

Sadly, half of me tend to agree with you. Is the acceptance because nobody has ever shown (or educated them to analyse) that things can still get done efficiently and effectively with minimal corruption? Is it acceptance or just despair/hopelessness about the state of affairs? The corruption I read in the BKK Post on a daily basis is BREATHTAKING, considering the poverty that exists. ANd the mickey mouse efforts to counter/punish such corruption is equally breathtaking in their sheer stupidity and lack of real substance. Can things get any worse without corruption?

I agree with you 100% that it could happen but does it anywhere? I can only speak for the US but the whole political system is corrupt starting from big business running the country and it supposed to be a government for the people by the people. This has been the case for a long time but the US Supreme Court ruled a year or so ago that corporations are free to spend as much as they want on political and candidate advertising. We can argue as about the effects of advertising but the fact remains those who spend the most generally win and it is VERY common in the US to have completely untrue and misleading ads attacking the other candidate including what their views are.

My point is that you are right in that it can happen and people like us wish it would happen but since it doesn't seem to ever happen and hasn't through history ... maybe the Thais are being more realistic than us. But correct me if I am wrong as I do only know the US system first hand but a country like Sweden maybe does have a fairly non-corrupt system.

[Nisa]

Good social researchers know that you predetermine the results of polls by the way you frame the question. The answer here clearly says: yes I can tolerate corruption as long as I get my 30%.

Are you saying that the majority of people say in th US or UK would respond the same way basically saying corruption is okay as long as I get a cut?

[mark45y]

Unless, they start paying the police a better wage, then grafting in the police force will not be stopped any time soon.

I believe they pay the top cops a good wage and the top cops are the most corrupt. Methinks one should look to Singapore for an example. Singapore in the 1960's was very much like Thailand. What happened to change things?

50 years

If I am reading you right I do agree that "top' police make good salaries. But the current starting pay for a cop in BKK is about 7500 baht a month. They are afforded free housing if the live in the police barracks but I believe they also have to pay for their own gun in uniform and possibly in many cases vehicle. I am making an assumption on the gun & uniform because I still see BKK police wearing the outdated uniform as well as a variety of different guns where some look to be about 60 years old. I have also been told by numerous police that they need to actually pay if they want to be promoted.

Personally I like the model of that you only need to really pay for police if you need them. Yes it would be great if so many things here were more modern and followed western traditions but then what would be the point of coming here?

Singapore is not a western model. They used to have corrupt police. Now they don't. What took place in Singapore to change the situation? It is a close Asian model.

[Macmundi]

Unless, they start paying the police a better wage, then grafting in the police force will not be stopped any time soon.

Even if you don't give them wages, people will still want to join the police force. We all know why.

[Nisa]

Unless, they start paying the police a better wage, then grafting in the police force will not be stopped any time soon.

I believe they pay the top cops a good wage and the top cops are the most corrupt. Methinks one should look to Singapore for an example. Singapore in the 1960's was very much like Thailand. What happened to change things?

50 years

If I am reading you right I do agree that "top' police make good salaries. But the current starting pay for a cop in BKK is about 7500 baht a month. They are afforded free housing if the live in the police barracks but I believe they also have to pay for their own gun in uniform and possibly in many cases vehicle. I am making an assumption on the gun & uniform because I still see BKK police wearing the outdated uniform as well as a variety of different guns where some look to be about 60 years old. I have also been told by numerous police that they need to actually pay if they want to be promoted.

Personally I like the model of that you only need to really pay for police if you need them. Yes it would be great if so many things here were more modern and followed western traditions but then what would be the point of coming here?

Singapore is not a western model. They used to have corrupt police. Now they don't. What took place in Singapore to change the situation? It is a close Asian model.

Same answer I gave before ... 50 years.

Thailand will not be anything close to what it is in 50 years.

Singapore may also have the best quality of life in Asia but it is probably the most expensive too.

Don't want to get too far in debating about Singapore's influences of the west since I didn't claim such a thing but I could swear it was a British colony from the early 1800s until the 50's when the Britts set up a government and elections for them. Thailand was never colonized.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Nisa

[anterian]

Most people run their lives using a form of risk analysis, they weight the benefits of risks versus gains. People in the West are not less morally corrupt than Thais, it is simply the risks are very much higher. You don't need to change the Thai nature, you simply need to increase the level of risk.

[rheinwiese]

http://www.tdri.or.th/reports/unpublished/os_paper/auyeung.pdf

Presentation Paper for

The Seminar on International Experiences on Good Governance

and Fighting Corruption

Thursday, February 17, 2000

Pimarnmek Room, 3rd Floor,

The Grand Hotel, Bangkok

Hong Kong had the same problems as Thailand has today.

They started the clean up in 1974.

And....it worked.

Open the file. It,s a good read.

[jimbeam1]

Unless, they start paying the police a better wage, then grafting in the police force will not be stopped any time soon.

I believe they pay the top cops a good wage and the top cops are the most corrupt. Methinks one should look to Singapore for an example. Singapore in the 1960's was very much like Thailand. What happened to change things?

mark45y. I believe that what you say is very true. If they are really serious about putting an end to corruption. What they should do is bring in an outside agency, say from Singapore, give them total authority to carry out a full investigation and act on recommendations? Hey but watch the cost of living spiral.

jb1

[philhal2]

Recently in an ABAC poll, "According to the Poll director, Noppadol Kannikar, the survey was conducted among 3,971 persons in 28 provinces nationwide to determine their perspective whether they could accept corruption in the government. Results showed that Thais who can accept government corruption still remains high at 64 percent.

Mark45y to the Nation, "I don't think so."

Maybe the poll should have been conducted amongst the Europeans , the Americans , the English , The Asians , the Africans ,the Australians , the French etc etc etc etc and asked them if they would cease to participate in the payment of the bribes and the corruption which is their way of doing business in Thailand and how they currently maintain a cheap labour force . Most of these countries since the days of the Vietnam wars etc no longer have a cheap labour force to feed their greed , they have been ousted and thrown out of most places in the world or are being made to pay proper wages and taxes .

Thailand is perhaps one of the last places in the world that thinks they need the money so badly there is no other way to survive or to grow other than to accept the Bribry and Corruption to survive .

Reality is they dont need it any more , they have a wealth of opportunity in emerging markets and can survive and grow economically at a greater pace by dumping the parasites and leaches that feed from their society now .

This is why Singapore and Hong Kong are so different , they eliminated the foreign parasites feeding off their societies .

Edited February 17, 2011 by philhal2

[mark45y]

Time does not make any difference. Both Thailand and Singapore were corrupt 60 years ago and after WW II both in bad shape financially Dead Singapore 50,000 7% Thailand 7,700 .04%. Singapore's change had nothing to do with elections. A strong man took control and reformed the place. He realized education was key, and foreign investment and public safety among other things. The fact that Singapore had a British/Chinese work ethic helped.

Singapore people are boring workaholics. Thai people are lazy and fun loving. For fun Singapore imports Thai people.

50 years is not going to make any difference. Singapore and Thailand both were equal 60 years ago. If anything Thailand had an advantage. Compare GNP then and now.

In 50 years Singapore will be a financial giant and Thailand will still be Thailand. In the past 60 years Singapore was able to get rid of corruption, Thailand was not. I could tell you why but it is illegal even to discuss the reasons.

[IanForbes]

Time does not make any difference. Both Thailand and Singapore were corrupt 60 years ago and after WW II both in bad shape financially Dead Singapore 50,000 7% Thailand 7,700 .04%. Singapore's change had nothing to do with elections. A strong man took control and reformed the place. He realized education was key, and foreign investment and public safety among other things. The fact that Singapore had a British/Chinese work ethic helped.

Singapore people are boring workaholics. Thai people are lazy and fun loving. For fun Singapore imports Thai people.

50 years is not going to make any difference. Singapore and Thailand both were equal 60 years ago. If anything Thailand had an advantage. Compare GNP then and now.

In 50 years Singapore will be a financial giant and Thailand will still be Thailand. In the past 60 years Singapore was able to get rid of corruption, Thailand was not. I could tell you why but it is illegal even to discuss the reasons.

Bingo! Give Mark a kewpie doll from the top shelf.

But, like I've always said... BEWARE OF WHAT YOU WISH FOR! ... there are similar certain reasons why I spend half my life in Thailand

[doggie888888]

Unless, they start paying the police a better wage, then grafting in the police force will not be stopped any time soon.

I believe they pay the top cops a good wage and the top cops are the most corrupt. Methinks one should look to Singapore for an example. Singapore in the 1960's was very much like Thailand. What happened to change things?

50 years

If I am reading you right I do agree that "top' police make good salaries. But the current starting pay for a cop in BKK is about 7500 baht a month. They are afforded free housing if the live in the police barracks but I believe they also have to pay for their own gun in uniform and possibly in many cases vehicle. I am making an assumption on the gun & uniform because I still see BKK police wearing the outdated uniform as well as a variety of different guns where some look to be about 60 years old. I have also been told by numerous police that they need to actually pay if they want to be promoted.

Personally I like the model of that you only need to really pay for police if you need them. Yes it would be great if so many things here were more modern and followed western traditions but then what would be the point of coming here?

Singapore is not a western model. They used to have corrupt police. Now they don't. What took place in Singapore to change the situation? It is a close Asian model.

Lee Kuan Yew took place in Singapore.

[Steely Dan]

I know we are probably not allowed to give links but google transparency international map and the guardian newspaper as they have an interactive world map of relative corruption by Country. One thing that really does stand out is the stunning inverse correllation between a Countries wealth/social development and the degree of corruption.

For example using 2010 figures.

Singapore, New Zealand, Denmark 9.3

Somalia 1.1, Burma, Afghanistan 1.4

Thailand should not rest on it's laurels as 3.5 puts it below Montenegro 3.7, though I suspect one man may single handedly redress the balance there. The most depressing thing is the recent survey of Thai citizens which found 62% of people tolerate corruption providing the economy is ok - well okay relative to who, Laos/Cambodia or should Thailand at least aspire to close the gap with the likes of South Korea and Japan?

[gosompoi]

I see it happening everyday, you can not report it. My experience those who report it are persecuted and this the only thing that happens.

[Steely Dan]

Time does not make any difference. Both Thailand and Singapore were corrupt 60 years ago and after WW II both in bad shape financially Dead Singapore 50,000 7% Thailand 7,700 .04%. Singapore's change had nothing to do with elections. A strong man took control and reformed the place. He realized education was key, and foreign investment and public safety among other things. The fact that Singapore had a British/Chinese work ethic helped.

Singapore people are boring workaholics. Thai people are lazy and fun loving. For fun Singapore imports Thai people.

50 years is not going to make any difference. Singapore and Thailand both were equal 60 years ago. If anything Thailand had an advantage. Compare GNP then and now.

In 50 years Singapore will be a financial giant and Thailand will still be Thailand. In the past 60 years Singapore was able to get rid of corruption, Thailand was not. I could tell you why but it is illegal even to discuss the reasons.

Good post! Yes the British model of organization twinned with the Chinese work ethic made Singapore what it is. I have often noted an undercurrent in Thailand which seems to resent how the Thai Chinese are so relatively successful, but there is more to it than that - Perhaps a beneign dictator along the lines of Attaturk is needed to knock the place into shape, but at the end of the day I think the ruling elite benefit greatly from the status quo, which is why democracy here seems to be such a facade - Still, except on the days I have to drive a distance or deal with any organ of government I would rather live in Thailand than Singapore.

[cosmosis]

Let us not forget. Corruption was endemic to 18th Century and early 19th Century England, it was not until all Civil Servants of all stripes were paid a decent living wage and truly independent Civil Service examinations were introduced that corruption eventually fell away to become the the exception rather than the rule. To expect any other approach to work is whistling in the wind.

[gosompoi]

Time does not make any difference. Both Thailand and Singapore were corrupt 60 years ago and after WW II both in bad shape financially Dead Singapore 50,000 7% Thailand 7,700 .04%. Singapore's change had nothing to do with elections. A strong man took control and reformed the place. He realized education was key, and foreign investment and public safety among other things. The fact that Singapore had a British/Chinese work ethic helped.

Singapore people are boring workaholics. Thai people are lazy and fun loving. For fun Singapore imports Thai people.

50 years is not going to make any difference. Singapore and Thailand both were equal 60 years ago. If anything Thailand had an advantage. Compare GNP then and now.

In 50 years Singapore will be a financial giant and Thailand will still be Thailand. In the past 60 years Singapore was able to get rid of corruption, Thailand was not. I could tell you why but it is illegal even to discuss the reasons.

my point! I could tell you why but it is illegal even to discuss the reasons.