Uk 6 Month Visit Visa...

[BennyC]

If I go back to the UK with my wife and child on a 6 month visit visa and we decided we wanted to stay longer , would she be able to fly back to Thailand and apply for another 6 month visa or does she have to leave for 6 months before she can apply again?

Thx .....

[VisasPlus]

Your wife can apply again at any time, even immediately after arriving back in Thailand after a 6 month visit. The problem is that the visa may be refused. Guidance to ECOs tells them that normally no more than 6 months in any 12 months is the maximum for a visit. The guidance is designed like this as genuine visitors would not really be expected to spend more than 6 months in any one year in the UK on a visit. ECOs can, and often do, interpret requests to spend more time than the quoted guidance as an attempt to circumvent the settlement provisions ( and save money on a settlement visa application, of course ).

By doing what you suggest, your wife risks being refused the second visit visa unless you have a very good and compelling reason for asking for a period longer than the guidance suggests is the maximum for a visit.

[BennyC]

We don't intend to settle in the UK , just take a break from Thailand.

Would we really be expected to apply for a settlement visa to stay for a year ?

[Basil B]

The settlement visa is indeed intended for those seeking to live in the UK permanently.

And yes for the purpose of a basic visitor visa this is intended for a visit of no more than 6 months

Requirements for leave to enter as a general visitor

40. For the purposes of paragraphs 41-46 a general visitor includes a person living and working outside the United Kingdom who comes to the United Kingdom as a tourist. A person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom as a Business Visitor, which includes Academic Visitors, must meet the requirements of paragraph 46G. A person seeking entry as a Sports Visitor must meet the requirements of paragraph 46M. A person seeking entry as an Entertainer Visitor must meet the requirements of paragraph 46S. A visitor seeking leave to enter for the purposes of marriage or to enter into a civil partnership must meet the requirements of paragraph 56D.

41. The requirements to be met by a person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom as a general visitor are that he:

(i) is genuinely seeking entry as a general visitor for a limited period as stated by him, not exceeding 6 months or not exceeding 12 months in the case of a person seeking entry to accompany an academic visitor, provided in the latter case the visitor accompanying the academic visitor has entry clearance; and

(ii) intends to leave the United Kingdom at the end of the period of the visit as stated by him; and

(iii) does not intend to take employment in the United Kingdom; and

(iv) does not intend to produce goods or provide services within the United Kingdom, including the selling of goods or services direct to members of the public; and

(v) does not intend to undertake a course of study; and

(vi) will maintain and accommodate himself and any dependants adequately out of resources available to him without recourse to public funds or taking employment; or will, with any dependants, be maintained and accommodated adequately by relatives or friends; and

(vii) can meet the cost of the return or onward journey.; and

(viii) is not a child under the age of 18.

(ix) does not intend to do any of the activities provided for in paragraphs 46G (iii), 46M (iii) or 46S (iii); and

(x) does not, during his visit, intend to marry or form a civil partnership, or to give notice of marriage or civil partnership; and

(xi) does not intend to receive private medical treatment during his visit; and

(xii) is not in transit to a country outside the common travel area.

You could apply for an extension of stay but this probably would not be granted

Requirements for an extension of stay as a general visitor

44. Six months is the maximum permitted leave which may be granted to a general visitor. The requirements for an extension of stay as a general visitor are that the applicant:

(i) meets the requirements of paragraph 41 (ii)-(vii) and (ix)-(xii); and

(ii) has not already spent, or would not as a result of an extension of stay spend, more than 6 months in total in the United Kingdom or not more than 12 months in the case of a person accompanying an academic visitor as a general visitor. Any periods spent as a child visitor are to be counted as a period spent as a general visitor; and

(iii) has, or was last granted, entry clearance, leave to enter or leave to remain as a general visitor or as a child visitor.

The above information is from the UKBA website immigration rules part 2 : http://www.ukba.home...ionrules/part2/

Edited February 17, 2011 by Basil B

[BennyC]

So if she returned to Thailand alone and her child was in the UK she probably wouldn't be aloud to return to the UK on another tourist visa?

The child would be 14 months old..

[Basil B]

So if she returned to Thailand alone and her child was in the UK she probably wouldn't be aloud to return to the UK on another tourist visa?

The child would be 14 months old..

Really that question is for the people who make the rules.

I presume there reply would be why would she want to leave the child here in the first place?

Edited February 17, 2011 by Basil B

[BennyC]

I read that it can be extended for children in education . I have full custody of my 5 year old son , would that count?

The real thing here is I don't know whether we'll all stay for 6 months or 12.

If we chose 12 months then our family would have to be split up for 6 months??

[BennyC]

Make it a bit clearer....

I am married to a Thai national and we have 1 child together.

I have a 5 year old Thai/English son (full custody)

We want to go back to the UK for 6 months , maybe 12...

If we go for 6 months and want to stay longer what option will she have to stay longer.

I don't think we could apply for a longer visit visa from the start due to finances.

Thx ...Ben

[7by7]

If she enters the UK as a visitor the maximum she can stay on any one visit is 6 months.

That is what the immigration rules say, and only Parliament can change them.

There are some exceptions, none of which apply to your wife.

There is a convention that visitors should not normally spend more than 6 months out of 12 in the UK. This is not a rule and visitors can be allowed to spend longer than this in the UK if they have an acceptable reason; but in the circumstances as you have described I doubt that she would be allowed.

Even if she were allowed longer than 6 months out of 12, she still could only spend a maximum of 6 months per visit.

Although visit visas can be valid for various periods from 6 months up to 10 years, the above applies no matter how long the visit visa is valid for.

[BennyC]

So if I decide to stay in the UK for a year our family will have to be split up for 6 months.

That is crazy....What a stupid system...

I can't see where the problem is if we stay for 6 months have a break for a month back in Thailand and then return for another 6 months..

Is a year really too long a time to spend in the UK ?

[BennyC]

So what is the option to guarantee that she can stay for 1 year?

Thanks for all your help aswell...

[Basil B]

So what is the option to guarantee that she can stay for 1 year?

Thanks for all your help aswell...

You could go the settlement route, but it is only intended for those wishing to live in the UK permanently.

Costs 3750THB per application (win or loose).

She will also require the TB test and meet the new A1 English language requirement.

I am assuming both children have British passports or that will cost another 37500THB per application (win or loose).

Not sure whether the application could/would be refused if it was declared/found out her intention was only to stay a year, but telling an untruth about your/her intentions would almost certainly end in a refusal.

The question regarding your wife having a visa "Parent of a child at school".

Will it be a fee paying school as detailed below?

Will the child have a visa (leave) as detailed below?

Requirements for leave to enter or remain as the parent of a child at school

56A. The requirements to be met by a person seeking leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom as the parent of a child at school are that:(i) the parent meets the requirements set out in paragraph 41 (ii)-(xii); and

(ii) (1) if the child has leave under paragraphs 57 to 62 of these Rules, the child is attending an independent fee paying day school and meets the requirements set out in paragraph 57(i) to (ix), or

(2) if the child is a Tier 4 (Child) Student, the child is attending an independent fee paying day school and meets the requirements set out in paragraph 245ZZA (if seeking leave to enter) or 245ZZC (if seeking leave to remain); and

(iii) the child is under 12 years of age; and

(iv) the parent can provide satisfactory evidence of adequate and reliable funds for maintaining a second home in the United Kingdom; and

(v) the parent is not seeking to make the United Kingdom his main home; and

(vi) the parent was not last admitted to the United Kingdom under the Approved Destination Status Agreement with China.

The above information is from the UKBA website immigration rules part 2 : http://www.ukba.home...ionrules/part2/

I am sure your wife will not meet these requirements, I agree at times these rules seem unfair, but as 7by7 has said the rules are made by Parliament and the Home Secretary, UKBA have to follow them.

[BennyC]

Maybe I will go home with my 2 kids and demand a council house and live off benefits for a year if this is the way British nationals are treated when they want to return home with their family.

I'm definitely not paying 37,000 and waiting months for a settlement visa for a year in the UK either.

So, there is no visa for someone wanting to stay in the UK for 12 months without settling?

[Basil B]

Maybe I will go home with my 2 kids and demand a council house and live off benefits for a year if this is the way British nationals are treated when they want to return home with their family.

I'm definitely not paying 37,000 and waiting months for a settlement visa for a year in the UK either.

So, there is no visa for someone wanting to stay in the UK for 12 months without settling?

If you are making a claim for Income Support, Income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance, Housing Benefit or Council Tax Benefit you will need to pass the ‘habitual residence test’. The Habitual Residence Test checks to see if you have made the British Isles your normal home. This has to be in the UK, Ireland, Channel Islands or the Isle of Man.

The Habitual Residence Test:

http://www.parliament.uk/briefingpapers/commons/lib/research/briefings/snsp-00416.pdf

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch0703.pdf

Advice for british nationals returning to the uk from abroad:

http://www.heathrowtravelcare.co.uk/index.php/general-advice-for-british-nationals-returning-to-the-uk-from-abroad/

[paully]

So, there is no visa for someone wanting to stay in the UK for 12 months without settling?

In short, no. There is a student visa - but your wife would need to be studying and would need to show that she had the necessary funds to do so and an offer of a place at a recognised college. So, no.

[7by7]

As VP said earlier, the 6 months rule and 6 months out of 12 convention are to prevent people using visit visas to circumvent the settlement rules.

Unfortunately, a small minority of people in a similar situation to yourself fall between the two; want to stay for longer than 6 months, but don't want to settle.

If you want to blame anyone, blame those who in the past have abused the visit visa system which over the years has meant the tightening up of the rules.

As I see it, your wife has 4 options.

1) Apply for a long term visit visa.

As she is living with you in Thailand she obviously has a valid reason for making regular trips to the UK, so normally should not have a problem getting one. However were the Entry Clearance Officer to discover that you are returning to the UK for 12 months they may doubt her intention to leave the UK after 6 months, and so refuse. I would not recommend lying in the application, doing so could mean she faces a ban from visiting the UK for up to 10 years if the lie is discovered.

Assuming she does get her visa she then travels with you and after 6 months returns to Thailand. How long she remains there is up to her and you, but if she returns too soon she may fall foul of the 6 months out of 12 convention and, unless she can convince the Immigration officer she has a valid reason for returning so soon, be refused entry. Indeed, if the airline notice the dates in her passport when checking in they may even refuse to carry her!

Even if successful, she would still have to pay for flights to Thailand and back.

I would not recommend entering once and then staying for the full year. An overstay of that proportion is a serious offence and, again, could result in her being banned from visiting the UK for up to 10 years or even ever entering the the UK again in any capacity for life.

Remember, also, that if she is in the UK as a visitor she will not be able to work nor undertake a course of study.

2) Find a suitable course and apply for a Tier 4 student visa.

She would need to find an approved educational establishment to sponsor her and show that she has the money up front to pay the course fees and support herself while in the UK.

She would be able to work a maximum of 20 hours per week during term time, more in the holidays; but she could not use any potential income from working to satisfy the financial requirements of the visa.

See Tier 4 of the Points Based System – Policy Guidance.

3) Find a UK employer to sponsor her for a work permit.

See Links to points-based guidance for details of the various types and what is required.

There is also a non points based system for certain categories; but I doubt that she would be successful in any of these.

4) Applying for a settlement visa.

I know that there is no intention to settle in the UK at the moment; but this may change. Even if it does not, she is not bound to stay the full 27 months; she can leave at any time.

See SET03 - Spouses.

Whichever category she applies in she will, of course, have to satisfy the relevant Maintenance and accommodation requirements.

[BennyC]

Thanks for all your help.....will keep you updated on the outcome ...

[bangkockney]

As I see it, your wife has 4 options.

2) Find a suitable course and apply for a Tier 4 student visa.

She would need to find an approved educational establishment to sponsor her and show that she has the money up front to pay the course fees and support herself while in the UK.

She would be able to work a maximum of 20 hours per week during term time, more in the holidays; but she could not use any potential income from working to satisfy the financial requirements of the visa.

See Tier 4 of the Points Based System – Policy Guidance.

If she were to study a course of length longer than 1 year, she would only be required to demonstrate available funds for tuition and maintenance for the first year only.

If she was studying a course at degree-level or above, including foundation degrees, then she would be able to work the full 20 hours. Anything below, including English language courses, and work is limited to 10 hours per week term time, unless a WorkSkills course, which is essentially 6 months study and 6 months paid, full time work.

She would also have to demonstrate English at CEFR B1 minimum, either through a Secure English Language Test or placement test and Skype interview with her sponsor. The English language requirement would be waived if she came as a student visitor, and with the new extended student visitor category could come to the UK for 11 months.

A letter from a regulated financial institution confirming the approval and arrangement of a loan would be sufficient for the maintenance requirement if the required cash was not held.

I would add to your 4 options a fifth, in that she could apply under Tier 1 (General), with no need for an employer sponsor. The criteria are however tough, based on English proficiency, age, qualifications, earnings and previous UK based study. Minimum £2,800 cash to meet the maintenance requirement.

If your wife doesn't need the money from work, she could do voluntary work in the UK. She would need to be sponsored by a charity but could come for 12 months. An unusual scenario, but may be of interest none the less.

I'd also point out that you may be asked by an ECO about your 5 year old and your plans for their schooling if applying for visitor visas.

Edited February 19, 2011 by bangkockney

[bangkockney]

There is another option, which I forgot.

You could enrol your 5 year old in an independent school and have your wife apply for a visit visa as the parent of a child in school. She would get the 12 months you need.

Clearly dependant on what access to finance you have and assuming your wife is the mother of the child. Wasn't sure from your post. How old is the other child?

Edited February 19, 2011 by bangkockney