The Buddha’S Ontology: A World Without Nouns

[Xangsamhua]

Looking through the philosopher-theologian Don Cupitt's recent survey* of the origins of consciousness, self-awareness and projection of divinity, I see that he says that our early ancestor, for survival, had to identify from the formless and undiscriminated external world before his eyes the appearance as objects of the things that mattered most to him – things that might threaten him; things that might provide food; things that he could deal with in some way.

In fact, he had to form the concept of a noun – something that is, in distinction from something that is not or is different.

He also had to gain the idea of events and their causes and effects – an awareness of causation leading to the concept of a verb.

So the formation of noun- and verb-concepts was the critical first step in the evolution and development of homo sapiens from homo erectus.

And if the development of awareness of nouns and their importance is so crucial to humanity, where does an ontology that denies the essentiality of the noun, as in the doctrine of anatta, come in?

Some possible responses come to mind.

1. The idea of an objective nominal reality, i.e. the objects and the words we use to name them is really not all that important. Objects, e.g. animals to be hunted, creatures to be avoided, others with whom we can have congress – in motion, doing things – are what count. Without doing anything – having a cause and effect – objects cannot be distinguished from the visual and mental field in which our senses locate them. What we then name are the moving objects, identifiable by their movement.

2. The standard Buddhist response to our intuitive and necessary (for survival) sense of self and otheris that this intuited self, essence, subjectivity or "thing-in-itself is just a construct – relative, not absolute. There is no essence, no self – just a convenient, but artificial holism to integrate in our minds the different aggregates that constitute objects or persons.

3. The relativization of the holistic "self" or "essence" is itself a reduction too far. There being no cohering force or element in any component or aggregate (that which itself is caused cannot step outside the process and become an uncaused cause), one can reasonably be led to conclude that there is an intellectually and perhaps physically inaccessible force or element that transcends phenomena. Over the years this has been called "God" – a monarchic, wholly other, objectifiable and willful force. This concept was most suited to the Bronze age through to the declining years of the monarchic era in Europe. In India it is Brahman; in Gnosticism, the Pleroma or Godhead. It might also be called "natural law", "reason" (Logos, the Word) or "spirit". It can be identified with Dharma,Torah, or Qur'an in their universal, uncreated forms. But, whatever it is, it is both universal and particular, the latter being its manifestation within the noun-objects, the phenomena that make up our cosmos.

I suspect the third option is found in some Mahayana schools, especially Yogacara, or the "Mind-only" school, but I would need to go back and read up again.

In denying any permanent essence or self, the Buddha radically rejected the linguistic construction of the world in which he was raised and in which, in effect, all mankind has believed from the earliest times of human development until now. He taught that, really, there are only verbs, no nouns. The noun – subject or object – is an illusion, a vortex of cause and effect that only has the appearance of being grounded in anything permanent or enduring. Do Buddhists really believe this or is it something they can only bring themselves to believe with a lot of effort. Do Buddhists really believe that there is nothing that provides stability and cohesion in the cosmos; nothing on which the laws of causation are based? Or do they just say that's what they believe (hoping it's right, because it's in the canon)? Or that the nothing, the absence of any underpinning ground, is the "nothing" of the medieval and early renaissance mystics and the Sufi mystics; that is, the absolute and real heart of things –the Mystery beyond all human conception.

* Don Cupitt A New Great Story. Polebridge, 2010

PS. The above is not a critique of the Buddha's teachings or of Buddhist thought, though toward the end it may appear adversarial (for rhetorical purposes). It's really just some thoughts that occurred to me on reading Don Cupitt's book, and expressing them helps to clarify and organize one's ideas. Cupitt is an atheist in the non-realist vein, i.e. he does not believe in an objective divinity external to ourselves. He draws on Christian, Mahayana Buddhist, postmodern French and linguistic philosophy, which he brings together in a non-realist, "solar" (expressive, outreaching) philosophy of living.

[Sarathi]

Ajahn Jayasaro recently mentioned that there are only verbs in the Pali .... although common pali grammar courses say there are four parts of speech:

naama - noun

aakhyataa - verb

Upasagga - prefix

nipaata - indeclinable particle

I wonder where this idea cmoes from ? Nouns and verbs are treated very differently in the pali - verbs have tenses, nouns have cases.

[lungmi]

Ajahn Jayasaro recently mentioned that there are only verbs in the Pali .... although common pali grammar courses say there are four parts of speech:

naama - noun

aakhyataa - verb

Upasagga - prefix

nipaata - indeclinable particle

I wonder where this idea cmoes from ? Nouns and verbs are treated very differently in the pali - verbs have tenses, nouns have cases.

Thai Pali is a cultural modified Pali, it not fits 100 % with the internationial standard.

Don Cupitt modifies modern linguistics (semiology and semiotics) in the same way.

Edited February 24, 2011 by lungmi

[Xangsamhua]

Ajahn Jayasaro recently mentioned that there are only verbs in the Pali .... although common pali grammar courses say there are four parts of speech:

naama - noun

aakhyataa - verb

Upasagga - prefix

nipaata - indeclinable particle

I wonder where this idea cmoes from ? Nouns and verbs are treated very differently in the pali - verbs have tenses, nouns have cases.

Thai Pali is a cultural modified Pali, it not fits 100 % with the internationial standard.

Don Cupitt modifies modern linguistics (semiology and semiotics) in the same way.

Sorry, Lungmi. I'm not questioning your judgement re semiology and semiotics at all, but need to check if you've read Cupitt separately or are judging from my post above.

My post doesn't quote from Don Cupitt's work at all - just refers to it.

Any errors or weird points of view in the post are entirely my own.

Having said that, I'm not sure what you mean in saying that "[Don Cupitt] modifies modern linguistics ... in the same way."

Would you mind giving an example to clarify?

[lungmi]

Ajahn Jayasaro recently mentioned that there are only verbs in the Pali .... although common pali grammar courses say there are four parts of speech:

naama - noun

aakhyataa - verb

Upasagga - prefix

nipaata - indeclinable particle

I wonder where this idea cmoes from ? Nouns and verbs are treated very differently in the pali - verbs have tenses, nouns have cases.

Thai Pali is a cultural modified Pali, it not fits 100 % with the internationial standard.

Don Cupitt modifies modern linguistics (semiology and semiotics) in the same way.

Sorry, Lungmi. I'm not questioning your judgement re semiology and semiotics at all, but need to check if you've read Cupitt separately or are judging from my post above.

My post doesn't quote from Don Cupitt's work at all - just refers to it.

Any errors or weird points of view in the post are entirely my own.

Having said that, I'm not sure what you mean in saying that "[Don Cupitt] modifies modern linguistics ... in the same way."

Would you mind giving an example to clarify?

Sorry, first I wanted to say that the topic is at a too high level to be discussed.

Then I wanted to give special information about modern linguistic (the same information I gave to Dr Martin Seeger for his PhD about P.A. Payutto). http://leeds.wreac.org/staff/martin-seeger

I stopped, University degree needed for the readers.

I went the middl way and give some explanations.

"Thai Pali" is a reduced system, culturally caused. Only some scholars (P.A.Payutto, Tan Buddhadasa with restrictions and some others) have the international Pali standard (Prof.Lambert Schmitthausen, doctorfather of Martin Seeger in Hambourg belongs to the Top Ten of Pali experts actually in the world..)

Example: Ask high ranked Thai monks about the meaning of Kamma;

1. Utuniyama: the natural law pertaining to physical objects and changes in the natural environment, such as the weath­er; the way flowers bloom in the day and fold up at night; the way soil, water and nutrients help a tree to grow; and the way things disintegrate and decompose. This perspective emphasizes the changes brought about by heat or tempera­ture.

2. Bijaniyama: the natural law pertaining to heredity, which is best described in the adage, “as the seed, so the fruit.”

3. Cittaniyama: the natural law pertaining to the workings of the mind, the process of cognition of sense objects and the mental reactions to them

4. Kammaniyama: the natural law pertaining to human be­havior, the process of the generation of action and its results. In essence, this is summarized in the words, “good deeds bring good results, bad deeds bring bad results.”

5. Dhammaniyama: the natural law governing the relation­ship and interdependence of all things: the way all things arise, exist and then cease. All conditions are subject to change, are in a state of affliction and are not self: this is the Norm.

Most forget 1. and 5. because they don't have enough Knowing of the

Authentical Buddhism in the coherant semantic deep structure of the Pali-Canon.

(The Thai workers have bad luck in Libya as result of bad deeds in a former physical life?)

About Don Cupitt I see from your posting the same limited understanding of modern linguistics.

I am ready to explain more about this, but I think it will be dialogue. (I can provoke some others of the forum to take part?)

[lungmi]

zigzagliquidstronghappy.

No verb, no noun.

Translation:

I go over the lake in my canoe to see my friend.

Indian Tribe language

Whorf/Sapir Thesis

http://en.wikipedia....stic_relativity

One part is accepted, but the thesis cannot explain all.

-------

An Inuit has more than 40 names for snow, me only 5.

Edited February 25, 2011 by lungmi

[Xangsamhua]

Ajahn Jayasaro recently mentioned that there are only verbs in the Pali .... although common pali grammar courses say there are four parts of speech:

naama - noun

aakhyataa - verb

Upasagga - prefix

nipaata - indeclinable particle

I wonder where this idea cmoes from ? Nouns and verbs are treated very differently in the pali - verbs have tenses, nouns have cases.

Thai Pali is a cultural modified Pali, it not fits 100 % with the internationial standard.

Don Cupitt modifies modern linguistics (semiology and semiotics) in the same way.

Sorry, Lungmi. I'm not questioning your judgement re semiology and semiotics at all, but need to check if you've read Cupitt separately or are judging from my post above.

My post doesn't quote from Don Cupitt's work at all - just refers to it.

Any errors or weird points of view in the post are entirely my own.

Having said that, I'm not sure what you mean in saying that "[Don Cupitt] modifies modern linguistics ... in the same way."

Would you mind giving an example to clarify?

Sorry, first I wanted to say that the topic is at a too high level to be discussed.

Then I wanted to give special information about modern linguistic (the same information I gave to Dr Martin Seeger for his PhD about P.A. Payutto). http://leeds.wreac.o...f/martin-seeger

I stopped, University degree needed for the readers.

I went the middl way and give some explanations.

"Thai Pali" is a reduced system, culturally caused. Only some scholars (P.A.Payutto, Tan Buddhadasa with restrictions and some others) have the international Pali standard (Prof.Lambert Schmitthausen, doctorfather of Martin Seeger in Hambourg belongs to the Top Ten of Pali experts actually in the world..)

Example: Ask high ranked Thai monks about the meaning of Kamma;

1. Utuniyama: the natural law pertaining to physical objects and changes in the natural environment, such as the weath­er; the way flowers bloom in the day and fold up at night; the way soil, water and nutrients help a tree to grow; and the way things disintegrate and decompose. This perspective emphasizes the changes brought about by heat or tempera­ture.

2. Bijaniyama: the natural law pertaining to heredity, which is best described in the adage, "as the seed, so the fruit."

3. Cittaniyama: the natural law pertaining to the workings of the mind, the process of cognition of sense objects and the mental reactions to them

4. Kammaniyama: the natural law pertaining to human be­havior, the process of the generation of action and its results. In essence, this is summarized in the words, "good deeds bring good results, bad deeds bring bad results."

5. Dhammaniyama: the natural law governing the relation­ship and interdependence of all things: the way all things arise, exist and then cease. All conditions are subject to change, are in a state of affliction and are not self: this is the Norm.

Most forget 1. and 5. because they don't have enough Knowing of the

Authentical Buddhism in the coherant semantic deep structure of the Pali-Canon.

(The Thai workers have bad luck in Libya as result of bad deeds in a former physical life?)

About Don Cupitt I see from your posting the same limited understanding of modern linguistics.

I am ready to explain more about this, but I think it will be dialogue. (I can provoke some others of the forum to take part?)

Thanks Lungmi. I couldn't download the Seeger article about PA Payutto and the Pali Canon, but will try at home this evening. I see the Thai word นิยม in the five "natural laws" you've listed and defined. I alway think of this word as "-ism" or a model.

Xang.

[lungmi]

Pariyaya language = diskursiv language in the Suttas: I go down to the auditors, their language world is mine.

In their language world I explain my Teaching.

The semantic deep structure in every sutta is the same (the basic Teaching of the Buddha) , the semantic surface structure in the Suttas is different. This is why a lot of "contradictions" in the Suttas has been detected and exploited.

I just had a conversation with my kalyanamitta, the Pali and Thai Teacher of Dr Martin in Wat Umong. Strict statement: "You understand one Sutta (deep structure), you understand the others. If not you have to study the Abidhamma (non-discursiv language, nippariyiya) "

When I read the works of P.A.Payutto, I sometimes get euphoric, in my lonely studies about modern linguistics I found someone who confirmed me.

• 1994 UNESCO Prize for Peace Education
• 1995 Appointed to a post of Tipitaka Archaraya, a scholar well versed in Pali Canon, by Nava Nalanda Institute^[4]
• 2005 Awarded the Most Eminent Scholar as a guru of Theravada Buddhism by The World Buddhist University^[4]

RATIONALE BEHIND THE NOMINATION In proposing the candidature of the Venerable Prayudh Payutto, the Department of Teacher Education ( Office of Rajabhat Institutes Council ) took into consideration the following :

1. His scholarship and competence

2. His works in Peace Education

3. Impact of his works and teachings

4. Personal qualities

1. Scholarship and Competence

The Venerable Prayudh Payutto is widely known and respected for his profound knowledge in the fields of Buddhism, education, and languages : Thai, Pali and English. His interest extends to such disciplines as science, social science, philosophy and ethics. A great teacher and public speaker, he is admired for his profound understanding and analyses of problems in education as well as his theory on a more balanced educational development. In his analyses of educational development, he advocates educational philosophy based upon Buddhist teachings and a wise application of modern science and technology which will lead to better quality of life.

His talent and abilities have been evident in his success in completing the highest grade of Pali Examination while still a novice. Furthermore, he graduated with first class honour and has been awarded honorary doctorate degrees by several universities. His books in Thai and English number more than 150. Over the years, he has been inundated with invitations to teach, lecture and deliver addresses from both within Thailand and abroad.

Furthermore, the Mahidol Varanusorn Prize in 1989 and the Silver Conch Award in 1990 were bestowed on him for his work in the propagation of Buddhism.

2. Works in Peace Education

Over the past 30 years, the Venerable Prayudh Payutto has Produced a great volume of works of an educational nature in all forms such as actual teachings, lectures, addresses, discussions, exchanges of opinion of sermons. He has served as an adviser to a number of committees attached to government bodies. Most important of all, his written works have been extensively studied and put in practice over a long period.

His application of the four Nobel Truths of Buddhism is evident in all his works. He has endeavoured at all times to instill in all people, regardless of race, religion, or sex, the importance of intellectual freedom and reasoning in decision making and problem solving without losing sight of self-discipline and the common goodness. He has also always emphasised that material development must be in conjunction with moral development and has given invaluable suggestions on how to deal with many aspects of life in order to attain true happiness which, in turn, will lead to peace in the minds of men, in the community and, ultimately, in the world.

Among his important writings are Buddhadhamma, A constitution for living, Education : A Tool for Development Awaiting Development, Towards Sustainable Science, A Buddhist Solution for the twenty-first Century and Buddhist Dictionaries. An important foundation for the advancement of Buddhist studies, Buddhadhamma has been acclaimed as “jewel of the first order” on account of its elegant style and language.

Possibly the greatest Buddhist work ever produced in Thailand: it presents the essential teachings of Buddhism, the Four Noble Truths, and elaborates on them, guiding the readers to an understanding and analysis of the truth of natural reality in order to devise a way of life that is harmonious with natural truth, leading to happiness and peace for both oneself and the community. The book is divided into five parts with the following headings : “What Is Life?”, “How Is Life”? “How Does Life Proceed?” How Should Life Be?”, and “How Should Life Be Lived?” as well as a concluding chapter. The 1,100 page book is in the process of being translated by Mr.Bruce Evans.

At the international level, his best known work is the text of his address to the 1993 Parliament of the World’s Religions, convened in Chicago, U.S.A., read by Dr.Jim Kenney, chairman of the programme committee in the absence of the Venerable Prayudh Payutto due to illness. The Address entitled “A Buddhist Solution for the Twenty-First Century” propounds the use of Buddhist doctrine to solve social problems of the world, the importance of reasoning in planning for the future and the need to create peace in the minds of men. In less than a year, the text of the address was reprinted more than six times in both Thai and English.

The above mentioned is only a small part of his work, but suffice to say that each of his works emphasises the use of reasoning and the intellect to attain personal happiness which is a pre-condition for peace in the community.

3. Impact of His Works and Teachings

The Venerable Prayudh Payutto’s works and thoughts have influenced the thinking and behaviour as well as actions of people in all walks of life ranging from administrators, academics in all disciplines, media men, the public, monks, school-children, students at all levels as well as leaders and educators abroad.

He has been invited to teach and address a number of institutions, both governmental and private, including the University of Pennsylvania, Harvard University, and Cambridge University, not to mention a number of international gatherings.

His books in Thai and English have been in great demand and have been reprinted many times. Often, it is not possible to determine the number of copies circulated because the books are copyright-free. The United Nations University in Japan has specifically asked him to write a book entitled ‘Buddhist Education.”

His audience and followers have been influenced by his thoughts and code of conduct resulting in their contribution to the community. As his influence grows his workload increases, but he is never discouraged even in the face of ill health.

His life and works have inspired interest among Thai and foreign scholars alike, A Cornell scholar has written a dissertation on his life and work entitled “A Person-centered Ethnography of Thai Buddhism” : The Life of Phra Pajavaramuni (Prayudh Payutto)

4. Personal Qualities

The Venerable Prayudh Payutto has been acclaimed as a scholar monk of impeccable conduct and behaviour. He leads a simple and modest life. His disciples and co-workers are all agreed that he has purity of heart and sincerity of purpose. A meticulous worker, he is humble in demeanour. He accords equal importance and interest to all who come to see him, regardless of race, religion or social status. He is above all a monk who has given unmatched contribution to the study of Buddhism and to mankind. He serves as a model not only to monks, but to all men.

[Sarathi]

First - the four parts of speech are not a Thai invention, 'culturally modified' or not. Prof. Buddhadatta lists them in his 'new pali course', and he is from Sri Lanka. These four parts are definitely treated differently - nouns are declined according to case, and verbs according to person and tense.

Second - practially every Thai monk I know can tell you about the 5 niyama - even if they have not studied Pali at all. It is standard stuff - but how is knowing the 5 niyama an indicator of "Knowing of the Authentical Buddhism in the coherant semantic deep structure of the Pali-Canon." ?

I honestly cannot make sense of your statement there.

I can tell you that the Niyama are not 'Authentic' original Buddhism in that they appear as a list only in the commentaries, and not the suttas. An arguement can be made that within the suttas you can find examples of each of the five, but that is all.

Again - while it's an interesting concept, I have yet to see any evidence at all that Pali nouns were considered as verbs in any way. I would certainly be interested in seeing such though.

I also could not make sense of the comment : "I stopped, University degree needed for the readers."

I met Martin ... but anyway in Thailand we have Dr Peter - one of the PTS translators. I will ask him about this issue.

Ajahn Jayasaro recently mentioned that there are only verbs in the Pali .... although common pali grammar courses say there are four parts of speech:

naama - noun

aakhyataa - verb

Upasagga - prefix

nipaata - indeclinable particle

I wonder where this idea cmoes from ? Nouns and verbs are treated very differently in the pali - verbs have tenses, nouns have cases.

Thai Pali is a cultural modified Pali, it not fits 100 % with the internationial standard.

Don Cupitt modifies modern linguistics (semiology and semiotics) in the same way.

Sorry, Lungmi. I'm not questioning your judgement re semiology and semiotics at all, but need to check if you've read Cupitt separately or are judging from my post above.

My post doesn't quote from Don Cupitt's work at all - just refers to it.

Any errors or weird points of view in the post are entirely my own.

Having said that, I'm not sure what you mean in saying that "[Don Cupitt] modifies modern linguistics ... in the same way."

Would you mind giving an example to clarify?

Sorry, first I wanted to say that the topic is at a too high level to be discussed.

Then I wanted to give special information about modern linguistic (the same information I gave to Dr Martin Seeger for his PhD about P.A. Payutto). http://leeds.wreac.o...f/martin-seeger

I stopped, University degree needed for the readers.

I went the middl way and give some explanations.

"Thai Pali" is a reduced system, culturally caused. Only some scholars (P.A.Payutto, Tan Buddhadasa with restrictions and some others) have the international Pali standard (Prof.Lambert Schmitthausen, doctorfather of Martin Seeger in Hambourg belongs to the Top Ten of Pali experts actually in the world..)

Example: Ask high ranked Thai monks about the meaning of Kamma;

1. Utuniyama: the natural law pertaining to physical objects and changes in the natural environment, such as the weath­er; the way flowers bloom in the day and fold up at night; the way soil, water and nutrients help a tree to grow; and the way things disintegrate and decompose. This perspective emphasizes the changes brought about by heat or tempera­ture.

2. Bijaniyama: the natural law pertaining to heredity, which is best described in the adage, "as the seed, so the fruit."

3. Cittaniyama: the natural law pertaining to the workings of the mind, the process of cognition of sense objects and the mental reactions to them

4. Kammaniyama: the natural law pertaining to human be­havior, the process of the generation of action and its results. In essence, this is summarized in the words, "good deeds bring good results, bad deeds bring bad results."

5. Dhammaniyama: the natural law governing the relation­ship and interdependence of all things: the way all things arise, exist and then cease. All conditions are subject to change, are in a state of affliction and are not self: this is the Norm.

Most forget 1. and 5. because they don't have enough Knowing of the

Authentical Buddhism in the coherant semantic deep structure of the Pali-Canon.

(The Thai workers have bad luck in Libya as result of bad deeds in a former physical life?)

About Don Cupitt I see from your posting the same limited understanding of modern linguistics.

I am ready to explain more about this, but I think it will be dialogue. (I can provoke some others of the forum to take part?)

[sabaijai]

As a former student of Pali at a western university, I can confirm that the language contains nouns and the Pali canon uses them.

Also there is no "Thai Pali" as far as I know. Pali can be written in any alphabetic script, and the Thai transcription of Pali appears to be as authentic as, say, the Sinhalese or Burmese.

Although I don't think the principle is directly reflected in Pali or most other languages, the notion that Buddhist ontology has no "nouns" sounds valid in the sense that since all is in flux, the existence of things is stative rather than nominal. In that case, only "nibbana" would be a noun.

I'm reminded of this passage from the novel The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet, by David Mitchell:

Jacob thinks about Abbot Enomoto’s questions at their one meeting.

“Doctor, do you believe in the soul’s existence?”

Marinus prepares, the clerk expects, an erudite and arcane reply. “Yes.”

“Then where” —Jacbon indicates the pious, profane skeleton— “is it?”

“The soul is a verb.” He impales a lit candle on a spike. “Not a noun.”

[lungmi]

Give me time, I try to resolve the "contradiction" with modern linguistics and P.A. Payutto. No need for university degree.

[sabaijai]

Give me time, I try to resolve the "contradiction" with modern linguistics and P.A. Payutto. No need for university degree.

Perhaps next time without the long hagiographical details

[lungmi]

Give me time, I try to resolve the "contradiction" with modern linguistics and P.A. Payutto. No need for university degree.

Perhaps next time without the long hagiographical details

I'm not sure if a have time. We have a new internet line and all people of my village and around want to have news from their husbands in Libya.

They phone, but no answer, but they are billed thousends of baht. I check American, English, French, Italian, Spanish and German nerws papers, not forget Al Djaasira to give informations.

Hard work, I'm happy to do it, my people needs me. The three life theory and modern linguistics can wait.

The "soul" is not a noun, yes in Pali, but not in the Buddha Teaching,