Red Shirt Leader Jatuporn To Reveal 'Solid Evidence' Of Abhisit's UK Citizenship

[rixalex]

I heard yesterday that Seh Daeng's daughter, who interestingly is herself a yellow shirt, saying her father was shot by red militants because of what he knew about Thaksin.

I just thought to myself if she truly believes that there's no hope for this country.

My understanding was that a number of years ago she attended a PAD rally. I don't think that act alone makes someone a yellow shirt. Pledging allegiance or support might.

She attended many PAD rallies. In her social class it was quite fashionable to be seen at PAD rallies at the time, and to support the PAD. When she came out as a Red Shirt she has lost many former friends, which was very difficult for her.

Interesting. Thank you.

[nicknostitz]

Seeing as the security forces were useless in terms of controlling the red protesters, what makes you think they were capable of controlling any other group?

Because the soldiers stationed at Silom have not even attempted to block the protesters - on the opposite - the have mingled with the PAD protesters, have encouraged them, and have hindered the police in arresting some of the PAD protesters after the slingshot battle between both groups occurred, which was stopped after police managed to get between the lines in a lull.

[nicknostitz]

I heard yesterday that Seh Daeng's daughter, who interestingly is herself a yellow shirt, saying her father was shot by red militants because of what he knew about Thaksin.

I just thought to myself if she truly believes that there's no hope for this country.

My understanding was that a number of years ago she attended a PAD rally. I don't think that act alone makes someone a yellow shirt. Pledging allegiance or support might.

She attended many PAD rallies. In her social class it was quite fashionable to be seen at PAD rallies at the time, and to support the PAD. When she came out as a Red Shirt she has lost many former friends, which was very difficult for her.

Interesting. Thank you.

If it is of further interest - she is a very charming, friendly, and intelligent young woman.

If i would not be that married and ten years younger i would develop a serious crush on her.

[whybother]

The incident of the "non-red bystanders" was a grenade lobbed at PAD protesters under the mantle of "multi-coloreds", or "Silom People", yet with an overwhelming strong presence of hardcore PAD guards and protesters at Silom (i have photos, and have photos of the same people during PAD rallies). You should ask the question why for three days these protesters were let through the military lines by the soldiers so they can protest directly at the Red Shirt barricades. In every such situation security forces should attempt to keep protesters of opposing sides away from each other. Why did this not happen then and there?

Yes, amazing how the military let them through to protest. They deserved to have grenades thrown at them.

The military should have done better keeping people away from the BTS too. It's not the red shirts fault that an innocent by-stander got hit when they launched their grenades.

[whybother]

If it is of further interest - she is a very charming, friendly, and intelligent young woman.

If i would not be that married and ten years younger i would develop a serious crush on her.

It's Thailand. When does marriage or age have anything to do with crushes??

[elshaheen]

Where did the native Thai people come from in the first instance

China

Yes, and they didn't even have a proper visa to come and stay. Which means, massive overstay.

[nicknostitz]

The incident of the "non-red bystanders" was a grenade lobbed at PAD protesters under the mantle of "multi-coloreds", or "Silom People", yet with an overwhelming strong presence of hardcore PAD guards and protesters at Silom (i have photos, and have photos of the same people during PAD rallies). You should ask the question why for three days these protesters were let through the military lines by the soldiers so they can protest directly at the Red Shirt barricades. In every such situation security forces should attempt to keep protesters of opposing sides away from each other. Why did this not happen then and there?

Yes, amazing how the military let them through to protest. They deserved to have grenades thrown at them.

The military should have done better keeping people away from the BTS too. It's not the red shirts fault that an innocent by-stander got hit when they launched their grenades.

The sarcasm is quite misplaced, and your manners are lacking.

I do not think i have either pointed out or hinted at that "They deserved to have grenades thrown at them". I have stated what has happened, and that there was a clear collaboration between military and PAD at Silom occurring, and that the military has clearly failed in their duty and through this exaggerated a already volatile situation.

[rixalex]

Seeing as the security forces were useless in terms of controlling the red protesters, what makes you think they were capable of controlling any other group?

Because the soldiers stationed at Silom have not even attempted to block the protesters - on the opposite - the have mingled with the PAD protesters, have encouraged them, and have hindered the police in arresting some of the PAD protesters after the slingshot battle between both groups occurred, which was stopped after police managed to get between the lines in a lull.

I recall the same sort of behaviour happening at certain barricades with reds turning up and soldiers who were there to prevent passage, simply stepping to one side. Whether that was because they were supporting the reds or because they were useless at their jobs, i'm not sure.

Point is, why would you expect professionalism when we were where we were at?

[Buchholz]

In public the government and the military have never admitted that a single dead protester, journalist or bystander was on account of shootings by the security forces. Their inane line of argumentation is that all dead were killed by Red Shirt militants.

Unbelievable.

I heard yesterday that Seh Daeng's daughter, who interestingly is herself a yellow shirt, saying her father was shot by red militants because of what he knew about Thaksin.

I just thought to myself if she truly believes that there's no hope for this country.

Sae Daeng's daughter hasn't been a yellow shirt for quite some time. After her father's death, she began to support the Red Shirt movement, and was yesterday for the first time on a UDD stage, where she briefly addressed the crowd.

As there seems not to be much chance of the discussion reverting back to on-topic-ness...

Has she assumed the Party Leader position of her father's political party, Khattiyatham Party, or is the red shirt party still headed by Red Shirt Surapat Chanthima, who is a fugitive from justice with an outstanding arrest warrant for terrorism?

[nicknostitz]

If it is of further interest - she is a very charming, friendly, and intelligent young woman.

If i would not be that married and ten years younger i would develop a serious crush on her.

It's Thailand. When does marriage or age have anything to do with crushes??

Well, it's a question of self-respect and -awareness, and that i prefer not having a important body part fed to the chickens.

[nicknostitz]

I recall the same sort of behaviour happening at certain barricades with reds turning up and soldiers who were there to prevent passage, simply stepping to one side. Whether that was because they were supporting the reds or because they were useless at their jobs, i'm not sure.

Point is, why would you expect professionalism when we were where we were at?

It depends on the particular incidents. Often it is strategy of the security forces to have several consecutive blocks that are only meant to slow down the protesters, also to assess their level of aggression, but not to block protesters.

At other times there were blocks where security forces where simply overwhelmed by protesters.

The situation on Silom was quite different though.

[whybother]

The incident of the "non-red bystanders" was a grenade lobbed at PAD protesters under the mantle of "multi-coloreds", or "Silom People", yet with an overwhelming strong presence of hardcore PAD guards and protesters at Silom (i have photos, and have photos of the same people during PAD rallies). You should ask the question why for three days these protesters were let through the military lines by the soldiers so they can protest directly at the Red Shirt barricades. In every such situation security forces should attempt to keep protesters of opposing sides away from each other. Why did this not happen then and there?

Yes, amazing how the military let them through to protest. They deserved to have grenades thrown at them.

The military should have done better keeping people away from the BTS too. It's not the red shirts fault that an innocent by-stander got hit when they launched their grenades.

The sarcasm is quite misplaced, and your manners are lacking.

I do not think i have either pointed out or hinted at that "They deserved to have grenades thrown at them". I have stated what has happened, and that there was a clear collaboration between military and PAD at Silom occurring, and that the military has clearly failed in their duty and through this exaggerated a already volatile situation.

You seemed to be excusing the grenade launches as the military not doing their job of keeping other protesters away.

[nicknostitz]

As there seems not to be much chance of the discussion reverting back to on-topic-ness...

Has she assumed the Party Leader position of her father's political party, Khattiyatham Party, or is the red shirt party still headed by Red Shirt Surapat Chanthima, who is a fugitive from justice with an outstanding arrest warrant for terrorism?

As far as i am aware she indeed has assumed the leadership of her father's party. Don't mistake her though - she loves her father, naturally, but she herself is not a violent person.

[nicknostitz]

You seemed to be excusing the grenade launches as the military not doing their job of keeping other protesters away.

I don't.

Nevertheless, this was a very complex situation leading up to the incident. But i won't go into this here right now, but i will later on in my book on this whole mess. It is important to see what happened then in context, and for this the space on this forum is just not enough.

[rubl]

Does that include the 60+ grenades lobbed on army, police and innocent non-red bystanders, Pathetic for sure.

Shooting peaceful protesters with live rounds and they respond using weapons of their own complete non-shock.

What came first the chicken or the egg?

Anyway, as said before back to the OP of 'Thailand ruled by British oppressor'

[rubl]

You seemed to be excusing the grenade launches as the military not doing their job of keeping other protesters away.

I don't.

Nevertheless, this was a very complex situation leading up to the incident. But i won't go into this here right now, but i will later on in my book on this whole mess. It is important to see what happened then in context, and for this the space on this forum is just not enough.

Well, vanderGrift forgave those who caused him harm. Even said to have seen only a single M16 being assembled. Totally off topic by now, but watch this from him about all those 'peaceful protesters'.

http://nationsstate.blogspot.com/

Back to the OP 'Thailand ruled by British oppressor'

[Oberkommando]

Does that include the 60+ grenades lobbed on army, police and innocent non-red bystanders, Pathetic for sure.

Shooting peaceful protesters with live rounds and they respond using weapons of their own complete non-shock.

What came first the chicken or the egg?

The order to disperse protesters with live ammunitions came first.

[Buchholz]

The incident of the "non-red bystanders" was a grenade lobbed at PAD protesters under the mantle of "multi-coloreds", or "Silom People", yet with an overwhelming strong presence of hardcore PAD guards and protesters at Silom (i have photos

Do you have any photos of this small sampling of Red Shirt bombers, shooters, grenaders?

Suksan Rangwiren

The police have interrogated the man suspected of illegally possessing assault rifles and rocket propelled grenade launchers recently found in an apartment in Bangkok.

Wanlop Pitheeprom

Samai Wongsuwan

[Buchholz]

If it is of further interest - she is a very charming, friendly, and intelligent young woman.

If i would not be that married and ten years younger i would develop a serious crush on her.

whatever floats your boat...

[nicknostitz]

You seemed to be excusing the grenade launches as the military not doing their job of keeping other protesters away.

I don't.

Nevertheless, this was a very complex situation leading up to the incident. But i won't go into this here right now, but i will later on in my book on this whole mess. It is important to see what happened then in context, and for this the space on this forum is just not enough.

Well, vanderGrift forgave those who caused him harm. Even said to have seen only a single M16 being assembled. Totally off topic by now, but watch this from him about all those 'peaceful protesters'.

http://nationsstate.blogspot.com/

Back to the OP 'Thailand ruled by British oppressor'

I don't know why you address this to me. I have never stated that the Red Shirts are entirely peaceful protesters. Fact is that the majority of Red Shirts are peaceful, or try to be peaceful, but that within the Red Shirts is a hardcore militant underground existing.

And additionally to this, the state has clearly used disproportionate violence against Red Shirts, also previous to last year's protests, such as the use of the Blue Shirts (never investigated even though more than ample evidence exists of who they were and led by whom), or the early morning attack against the Red Shirts at Samliem DinDaeng in April 2009 - where guns were fired directly at Red Shirt protesters (and at me as well). Again - never any investigations over that incident.

The only violence that is properly investigated is violence committed by Red Shirts, violence committed by the state is either not, or insufficiently investigated. Violence committed by the PAD is sluggishly investigated (expect speeding up of the cases now, as the PAD is now seemingly thrown away by their former backers as they outlived their use and purpose).

[rubl]

Does that include the 60+ grenades lobbed on army, police and innocent non-red bystanders, Pathetic for sure.

Shooting peaceful protesters with live rounds and they respond using weapons of their own complete non-shock.

What came first the chicken or the egg?

The order to disperse protesters with live ammunitions came first.

The shooting by MiB came first, the grenade attacks before that already. Maybe you refer to the April 2009 clip with PM Abhisit saying 'kill them all' ? A wee bit doctored, but nice try.

Anyway, as I try to keep reminding people the OP is 'Thailand ruled by British oppressor'.

[nicknostitz]

If it is of further interest - she is a very charming, friendly, and intelligent young woman.

If i would not be that married and ten years younger i would develop a serious crush on her.

whatever floats your boat...

Personally, i find it quite disturbing that you have to select an image of Sae Daeng's daughter in front of her father's coffin shot during his funeral, and try to indicate with a sloppy remark that she may not be up to your standards of beauty.

I do not think i want to know what "floats your boat" - manners obviously not...

[nicknostitz]

The shooting by MiB came first, the grenade attacks before that already. Maybe you refer to the April 2009 clip with PM Abhisit saying 'kill them all' ? A wee bit doctored, but nice try.

Anyway, as I try to keep reminding people the OP is 'Thailand ruled by British oppressor'.

Actually - no. What came first on April 10, before the "Men in Black" appeared on the scene was the death of a Red Shirt protester via sniper.

[rubl]

begin removed ...

And additionally to this, the state has clearly used disproportionate violence against Red Shirts, also previous to last year's protests, such as the use of the Blue Shirts (never investigated even though more than ample evidence exists of who they were and led by whom), or the early morning attack against the Red Shirts at Samliem DinDaeng in April 2009 - where guns were fired directly at Red Shirt protesters (and at me as well). Again - never any investigations over that incident.

The only violence that is properly investigated is violence committed by Red Shirts, violence committed by the state is either not, or insufficiently investigated. Violence committed by the PAD is sluggishly investigated (expect speeding up of the cases now, as the PAD is now seemingly thrown away by their former backers as they outlived their use and purpose).

'disproportionate violence' against 'peaceful protesters' ? Surely you are talking about October 1976 now.

Forget it, we can argue till the cows come home and still not be done.

The OP is much more interesting 'Thailand ruled by British oppressor'

[Buchholz]

If it is of further interest - she is a very charming, friendly, and intelligent young woman.

If i would not be that married and ten years younger i would develop a serious crush on her.

whatever floats your boat...

Personally, i find it quite disturbing that you have to select an image of Sae Daeng's daughter in front of her father's coffin shot during his funeral, and try to indicate with a sloppy remark that she may not be up to your standards of beauty.

I do not think i want to know what "floats your boat" - manners obviously not...

Nothing untoward in the phrase.

It just means whatever one prefers.. aka up to you

[rixalex]

I don't know why you address this to me. I have never stated that the Red Shirts are entirely peaceful protesters. Fact is that the majority of Red Shirts are peaceful, or try to be peaceful, but that within the Red Shirts is a hardcore militant underground existing.

How underground can it be when you have the very leaders of the movement standing up on stage urging violent acts, with the red mass before them - majority of whom you tell us are peaceful people - cheering and applauding?

[Buchholz]

Has she assumed the Party Leader position of her father's political party, Khattiyatham Party, or is the red shirt party still headed by Red Shirt Surapat Chanthima, who is a fugitive from justice with an outstanding arrest warrant for terrorism?

As far as i am aware she indeed has assumed the leadership of her father's party. Don't mistake her though - she loves her father, naturally, but she herself is not a violent person.

I suppose that's progress to no longer have a terrorist fugitive acting as Party Leader.

It'll be interesting to see how many Red Shirts go with the Khattiyatham Party and how many will go with their standard Pheu Thai Party in the next election.

[nicknostitz]

begin removed ...

And additionally to this, the state has clearly used disproportionate violence against Red Shirts, also previous to last year's protests, such as the use of the Blue Shirts (never investigated even though more than ample evidence exists of who they were and led by whom), or the early morning attack against the Red Shirts at Samliem DinDaeng in April 2009 - where guns were fired directly at Red Shirt protesters (and at me as well). Again - never any investigations over that incident.

The only violence that is properly investigated is violence committed by Red Shirts, violence committed by the state is either not, or insufficiently investigated. Violence committed by the PAD is sluggishly investigated (expect speeding up of the cases now, as the PAD is now seemingly thrown away by their former backers as they outlived their use and purpose).

'disproportionate violence' against 'peaceful protesters' ? Surely you are talking about October 1976 now.

Forget it, we can argue till the cows come home and still not be done.

The OP is much more interesting 'Thailand ruled by British oppressor'

Actually i have not used the term "peaceful protesters". I have stated "protesters".

You, by the way, have completely ignored my comment regarding the use by the state of the Blue Shirts (no red shirt militants present then), or the early morning attack at Samliem Dindaeng in which rounds were fired by the military directly into the protesters, and the lack of investigations into those incidents.

Yes, i stand by my comment of disproportionate use of violence. If you have any questions regarding the definition - it does not say that certain levels of violence by the state were not required, but that the levels chosen were - disproportionate - to threats and dangers faced in the given situations.

Armed protesters were a legitimate target, i do not argue over this point. Nevertheless - unarmed protesters, ambulances, journalists and bystanders were not a legitimate target, and against the set rules of engagement. The majority of the dead of 2010 were though of the aforementioned categories.

[rubl]

The shooting by MiB came first, the grenade attacks before that already. Maybe you refer to the April 2009 clip with PM Abhisit saying 'kill them all' ? A wee bit doctored, but nice try.

Anyway, as I try to keep reminding people the OP is 'Thailand ruled by British oppressor'.

Actually - no. What came first on April 10, before the "Men in Black" appeared on the scene was the death of a Red Shirt protester via sniper.

A quick search doesn't give me a clear time line and I'm reluctant to accept what you write here. Total death toll that day was five soldiers and 13 civilians, including a Japanese cameraman. No info on sequence of deaths (at least i haven't yet).

What happened with the OP stuff, not interesting enough ?

"The protesters, called Red Shirts for their garb, see the Oxford-educated Abhisit as a symbol of an elite impervious to the plight of Thailand’s poor and claim he took office illegitimately in December 2008 after the military pressured Parliament to vote for him."

Edited February 20, 2011 by rubl

[nicknostitz]

I don't know why you address this to me. I have never stated that the Red Shirts are entirely peaceful protesters. Fact is that the majority of Red Shirts are peaceful, or try to be peaceful, but that within the Red Shirts is a hardcore militant underground existing.

How underground can it be when you have the very leaders of the movement standing up on stage urging violent acts, with the red mass before them - majority of whom you tell us are peaceful people - cheering and applauding?

Your are building a strawman.

First of all - in no speech on the stage has any UDD leader urged anyone to take up rifles and shoot people. The two speeches in question are two speeches by Nattawut and Arisaman, in which the use of petrol and the burning of city halls was mentioned, in case of dispersal respectively of a military coup (as far as i am aware, as the important part regarding a coup in nattawut's speech has been cut out by in infamous youtube video).

There is nevertheless a vast difference between this and the actions of militants (whose existence i have never denied). On now stage though has ever been the use of underground militants been advocated.

In Egypt and Tunesia, for example, have protesters set many more places aflame, but i do not see here anyone now stating that these protester's demands were not legitimate, and that the ousted Strongmen/Dictators should therefore be allowed to shoot all those protesters, and that it was legitimate to kill those protesters.