14 Dead, At Least 20 Injured As Bus Plunges Into Ravine In Nan

[agord]

BKKJames:

Oh and speaking of stats - how many killed in car accidents in the west (USA) last year? Check the USA rates over the last decade - and then come back with ignorant thoughts. All the regulation in the world won't change a thing unfortunately except create a few new industries for those concerned.

In TH, the number was around 11,000 of which motorcycles made up 6,000. Too many - yes but throwing more government controls / laws when the existing one's dont get enforced is pointless.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

:lol: having a laugh? compare US stats with Thailand?? seriously get a grip. Everyone owns a car in the US if not 2. Having served as an officer for the US DOT and a grad from the CHP academy I'm not going to indulge you in a debate in something you know little if anything about. nice try

Yes you're right no point to have any highway patrol officers on the roads, commerical vehicle checkpoints... yeah those things wouldn't make a positive impact. you win

[cougar52]

The laws and to Police need to enforce the law, the country needs to have proper Driving Tests.

I am reminded of the attitude of these drivers, about 3 years ago I lived in Korat and spent a lot of time at a local

restaurant. The cook was a friend as well as the owner. I remember being in one evening and the cook's husband was

with a couple of his friends and I counted at least 7 or 8 bottles of empty beer on the table. He appeared to be

slightly drunk. He motioned to me and said do you want to go to Bangkok tonight. I asked why he asked and he told me

that he is driving the Bus there tonight at 2:00 A.M. After that revelation, I decided to never use the bus. And it

was one of the double decked VIP blue buses that run daily between Bangkok and Korat.

[bbradsby]

I feel so sorry for those teachers , once again those bus drivers really need to receive proper training for road safety and how to use a bus. You cannot wake up in the morning and pretend to be a bus driver like this .

RIP for those who died .

[snip]... Ending with some pleasant news,if you like a good laugh,go to the driverlicence centrum

near Regent School,Whatch them do practicle exam ! Some of them never saw a car in their life

and try to do the exam.....and they pass !! lol

Thai wife, a degreed professional, states that Thais often don't take any exam at all to receive a drivers license - just pay some tea money to skip the inconvenience. Same for the minibus or even private tour bus drivers! NO FORMAL TRAINING OR TESTING IS REQUIRED. Corruption costs lives, and is no joking matter.

For anyone making excuses for the driver in a single vehicle accident, there IS no excuse - unless he's been hit by a meteor, its his JOB to scan for, analyze & always have an out for any & all road risks including road conditions & others' stupid behavior. BTW, for motorcyclists, this is mandatory for one's longevity.

[bangkockney]

This is what you get when a country's bus drivers come from the most reckless segment of drivers, unlike in developed countries where they usually come from the most careful segment of drivers, and are carefully chosen for the job by their employers.

Clearly you haven't been on a bus in a Western country for some time! London's bendy buses have killed numerous people.

The difference is proper training, nothing to do with what segment of society potential drivers come from.

[bangkokcitylimits]

Bus drivers' duties and responsibilities vary depending on the type of vehicle they operate and the type of service. However, in general, bus drivers:

• operate vehicles in a safe and courteous manner
• follow established routes and time schedules or drive to charter destinations
• inspect vehicles before and after trips
• submit simple reports at the end of each shift
• submit collision reports when necessary.

Personal Characteristics

Bus drivers need the following characteristics:

• good health and vision
• good communication skills
• the ability to be diplomatic and courteous in dealing with the public, from the first passenger to the last passenger each day
• the ability to remain alert and maintain a high level of concentration
• good judgment and the ability to react quickly in emergency situations.

They should enjoy driving, taking a methodical approach to recording information and inspecting vehicles, and talking to people.

Educational Requirements

There are no standard education requirements for bus drivers. However, individual employers may require applicants to:

• be able to read maps
• have knowledge of basic traffic laws and regulations pertaining to local bylaws and the Traffic Safety Act
• have Grade 11 or an equivalent combination of training and experience
• be at least 21 years of age and have at least five years of driving experience
• pass a criminal record check and a vulnerable sector search
• pass a pre-employment medical or physical demands check (drivers must be physically able to do inspection checks, perform minor maintenance duties and be able to do shoulder checks when driving)
• be able to enter the United States (for motor coach drivers).

Employers prefer to hire bus drivers who have:

• good customer service skills
• experience dealing with the public
• experience driving larger vehicles
• emergency first aid certification
• a clear driving record.

http://alis.alberta.ca/occinfo/Content/RequestAction.asp?aspAction=GetHTMLProfile&format=html&occPro_ID=71001566

[bkkjames]

:lol: having a laugh? compare US stats with Thailand?? seriously get a grip. Everyone owns a car in the US if not 2. Having served as an officer for the US DOT and a grad from the CHP academy I'm not going to indulge you in a debate in something you know little if anything about. nice try

Yes you're right no point to have any highway patrol officers on the roads, commerical vehicle checkpoints... yeah those things wouldn't make a positive impact. you win

Good idea, debating with 'beuro-crats' is not my strong suite

Anyways, like I said before, sad news regardless of the cause of the accident.

[bangkockney]

I feel so sorry for those teachers , once again those bus drivers really need to receive proper training for road safety and how to use a bus. You cannot wake up in the morning and pretend to be a bus driver like this .

RIP for those who died .

[snip]... Ending with some pleasant news,if you like a good laugh,go to the driverlicence centrum

near Regent School,Whatch them do practicle exam ! Some of them never saw a car in their life

and try to do the exam.....and they pass !! lol

Thai wife, a degreed professional, states that Thais often don't take any exam at all to receive a drivers license - just pay some tea money to skip the inconvenience. Same for the minibus or even private tour bus drivers! NO FORMAL TRAINING OR TESTING IS REQUIRED. Corruption costs lives, and is no joking matter.

For anyone making excuses for the driver in a single vehicle accident, there IS no excuse - unless he's been hit by a meteor, its his JOB to scan for, analyze & always have an out for any & all road risks including road conditions & others' stupid behavior. BTW, for motorcyclists, this is mandatory for one's longevity.

There really is no difference between the two. The driving "test" is a few exercises in a car park. Obtaining a licence legitimately does not mean you will be a better driver because of it!

[IanForbes]

What a terrible waste of life that could have and should have been prevented. Road conditions can be a factor but in no way can be blamed unless there was a sudden change in the environment... rock slide or washout. The police didn't mention there being one. That makes the cause one of two choices... either a driver error or mechanical failure. Unless we find out which then we can't come to the conclusion of the cause. It's most likely a bit of both, but none of us know. A few years ago in the same general area a bus went into a ditch and burst into flame, causing the death of many passengers. The brakes had been failing for many miles and smoke was coming out of the back, and yet the driver continued to drive. He should have stopped. This might have been a similar situation.

I drive steep logging roads all the time in Canada and commercial drivers take loaded longing trucks down them every day. There are no barriers and the switch-backs are very tight, and yet the drivers have no trouble negotiating the corners. I can't recall the last time there was a bad accident in the past 40 years. But, the trucks are well maintained and the drivers are skillful.

[bkkjames]

What a terrible waste of life that could have and should have been prevented. Road conditions can be a factor but in no way can be blamed unless there was a sudden change in the environment... rock slide or washout. The police didn't mention there being one. That makes the cause one of two choices... either a driver error or mechanical failure. Unless we find out which then we can't come to the conclusion of the cause. It's most likely a bit of both, but none of us know. A few years ago in the same general area a bus went into a ditch and burst into flame, causing the death of many passengers. The brakes had been failing for many miles and smoke was coming out of the back, and yet the driver continued to drive. He should have stopped. This might have been a similar situation.

I drive steep logging roads all the time in Canada and commercial drivers take loaded longing trucks down them every day. There are no barriers and the switch-backs are very tight, and yet the drivers have no trouble negotiating the corners. I can't recall the last time there was a bad accident in the past 40 years. But, the trucks are well maintained and the drivers are skillful.

sorry Ian but quite common apparently all over the world - http://www.google.co.th/search?q=logging+truck+accidents&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=f6m&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivns&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:y&sa=X&ei=USliTYDMD8qJrAeOmoXpAg&ved=0CA4QpwUoBQ

[diehard60]

I feel so sorry for those teachers , once again those bus drivers really need to receive proper training for road safety and how to use a bus. You cannot wake up in the morning and pretend to be a bus driver like this .

RIP for those who died .

How can they? There are no ligit driving school in Thailand. And the ones that say they are do not have any kind of a driving manual. I have asked?

[el jefe]

"They are also quite narrow and very, very dangerous especially if the weather's bad, or it's foggy."

There are NO dangerous roads in the world- not one.

Its all down to : lack of driver skill, lack of common sense, lack of experience, lack of professional training, lack of pride in driving well, lack of fast good reactions, lack of correct response to a threatening situation.

I would say 99% of all Thai drivers fall into the category of one or all the above.

Note: I am an ex-rally champion and when I went off into the scenery on a forest track on several occasions, I nor anyone else would blame the road or conditions, one would say I was trying too hard, I was not concentrating enough, or just plain old... I am not good enough.

Why don't people recognize the fact its always the drivers fault no matter what the situation.

I stand steadfast on my opinion and challenge anyone to point out any occasion where it was not the drives fault.

I keep reading this here and on other threads. If "99% of all Thai drivers" are so bad, then I assume that despite you being a "rally champion", you have not figured out that there are different rules of the road in Asia than in your western country. The vast majority of Thai drivers are predictable. Western drivers, when presented with a situation they are unfamiliar with here in Asia, sometimes do weird things.

In this case, it's hard not to blame the driver, but I'd like to hear the rest of the facts, especially since I've been on that road.

And if you want another case where it's not the driver's fault:

Bus driver is driving safely. Driver of oncoming vehicle falls asleep and turns into bus's path. Bus driver's first reaction is to swerve to avoid hitting oncoming vehicle with disastrous results. Or should the bus driver have plowed right through the oncoming vehicle.

RIP.

[webfact]

13 dead, 20 injured, as bus plunges into ravine in Nan

NAN, Feb 21 – Thirteen bus passengers were confirmed dead and at least 20 others were injured when a bus carrying teachers plunged into a ravine in the northern province of Nan on Monday morning, according to police.

Currently, rescue workers have already retrieved five of 13 bodies while all the casualties were sent to Song Kwae and Tha Wang Pha Hospitals and nearby hospitals for medical treatment. Rescue and search operations are still under way, said Pol Lt-Col Kiattiyot Suwankatsri of Song Kwae police station.

A preliminary investigation reported that the bus carried 30 teachers from Chiang Rai’s Mae Sai district to send off their colleague who moved from the school in Mae Sai to work at a school in Thung Chang district of Nan.

The accident scene had sharp curves and the roadway zigzagged. Police said the bus driver may not have been familiar with the high mountainous road and that he lost control of the vehicle, causing the bus to fall off the roadside into the 100-metre deep ravine. (MCOT online news)

-- Tan Network 2011-02-21

[brahmburgers]

Also; Thais learn in uturo never to complain - .....wouldn't want someone to lose face would we?

Well, those unlucky teachers lost a lot more than face on the side of that hwy.

And if a farang was on board, he/she probably wouldn't complain to the driver either, as most farang learn to be like Thais (when in Thailand).

I'm not Thai, and yes I do complain to drivers sometimes. Admittedly, my usual complaint is about too-loud amplified noise, but sometimes I've complained about erratic driving. Sometimes I get met with a snarl, or sometimes a chuckle (at my poor handle on Thai) or a scolding by some younger person shielding the driver from the rude farang. Invariably the response is always 'don't worry' 'everything is fine.' ....same response when I start putting on a seatbelt in a taxi, or if I'm sitting next to a van driver.

"Not familiar with the road" .....what a load of hogwash. Drivers travel on unfamiliar roads all the time. Is that an excuse to kill a score of people? When I drove to Pai and back, on that intensely convoluted road, at night, I drove a safely slow speed. No problems. If I was driving with passengers, I would have driven even more carefully.

The van driver, if he's still alive, should be thrown in jail for criminal behavior - for a very long time.

Edited February 21, 2011 by brahmburgers

[InseeDaeng]

So sad! R.I.P

[a99az]

Today AIN"T a good day to ride in a bus or van!

In reply to your foot note.

Odd that !! I thought I spoke English because I was an Englishman. From that very small island, that at one time ruled the WORLD. ALL that was worth something to us any way.

Edited February 21, 2011 by a99az

[Misterwhisper]

And the second report about a horrific traffic accident involving a minivan/bus in one single day! All you can do is only shake your head in resignation, because nothing will ever change in this country. Road safety and driving instruction are foreign concepts.

Do a little test with your taxi driver: As he whizzes you to your destination at breakneck speed, ask him about individual traffic signs and what they mean. You'll be lucky if he gets 1 out of 10 right. Traffic signs are just there to decorate roadsides and serve no tangible purpose.

[gohmer]

When Thai people stop using words like "saddened" and start using words like "F'ing Outragged" and have the balls to demonstrate that in the streets regarding the highway safety in Thailand, then more people will die and the boneheads on this forum saying crap like RIP, just promote the same lame, non-action that the Thais do. Instead of RIP, how about CBFTDAR (Come back from the dead and riot).

[bkkjames]

When Thai people stop using words like "saddened" and start using words like "F'ing Outragged" and have the balls to demonstrate that in the streets regarding the highway safety in Thailand, then more people will die and the boneheads on this forum saying crap like RIP, just promote the same lame, non-action that the Thais do. Instead of RIP, how about CBFTDAR (Come back from the dead and riot).

A bit too much CNN this last couple of weeks?

[starcatcher]

For sure it is a tragic. But isn't it just the other side of the coin, why most foreigners like to stay in Thailand?

Easy-going life, not too much rules and regulations etc.

For sure this accident was not necessary. If the rules and laws were similar like in most European countries, maybe this accident never happend. Like most other accidents - especially with motorbike drivers involved.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Hired a bus for a staff trip a few years ago. He drove like hi was from a looney bin! Scared the shit out of everyone.

A year later we hired another bus and I pulledthe driver to one side and said if any of my staff complain of bad driving you will not get this 1000 Baht I was showing him. that worked.

Isn't it ashame they can only do things for money! Not coz it was his job or anything.

Better to be 10 minutes late than 30 years early.

I think you're quote " Isn't it a shame they can only do things for money! Not coz it was his job or anything" is wrong and unjustified!!! You can't offer such an incentive as this and claim that the only reason the driver drove sensibly was because of the money offered up. How do you know he wouldn't have driven sensibly anyway and was just grateful for the bonus money?? If it had been the SAME driver who "drove like he was in a looney bin" the first time round - then fair enough, it probably would have been because of the money. I hope you can see the distinction between the two situations.

[Tokay]

Hey Porn, I know you can drive a paint a house, pour concrete, drive a motobike, and fly a jet, but how about a bus?

[GeorgeO]

I feel so sorry for those teachers , once again those bus drivers really need to receive proper training for road safety and how to use a bus. You cannot wake up in the morning and pretend to be a bus driver like this .

RIP for those who died .

There's 19 deaths in 2 seperate minivan accidents within 24 hours. How many did the hi so brat kill on the toll way,,,, 7-9?...for a total of 3 seperate minivan accidents and what 26+ deaths?

Come on Bureau of Land Transportation,

Come on traffic police,

Come on politicians, clean it up;

Or is this thai way of population control?

This clearly was a full size tour bus, not a minivan, given the number of passengers on board.

However, It still doesn't alter the fact that the drivers of these vehicles are grossly unqualified to take responsibility for the safety of their passengers, as the two incidents have shown today!

[softgeorge]

We drove from Chiangmai to Chiangrai and back last weekend and if anyone knows the road it is not the best in Thailand. Very winding over the mountains. In our two days we almost had 5 headon collisions with buses. They seem to have total disregard for other road users. They overtake on bends in narrow strips of road and simply have the attitude of "Get out of my way I am comming through and they will not budge or slow down. They have the attitude that is they flash thier headlights then that gives them automatic right of way even when they are travelling on the wrong side of the road. I know of one guy who drives a mini bus transporting school children. He doesn't even have a driver licence never mind a passenger vehicle licence.

[onnut]

Hired a bus for a staff trip a few years ago. He drove like hi was from a looney bin! Scared the shit out of everyone.

A year later we hired another bus and I pulledthe driver to one side and said if any of my staff complain of bad driving you will not get this 1000 Baht I was showing him. that worked.

Isn't it ashame they can only do things for money! Not coz it was his job or anything.

Better to be 10 minutes late than 30 years early.

I think you're quote " Isn't it a shame they can only do things for money! Not coz it was his job or anything" is wrong and unjustified!!! You can't offer such an incentive as this and claim that the only reason the driver drove sensibly was because of the money offered up. How do you know he wouldn't have driven sensibly anyway and was just grateful for the bonus money?? If it had been the SAME driver who "drove like he was in a looney bin" the first time round - then fair enough, it probably would have been because of the money. I hope you can see the distinction between the two situations.

Sure you could be right! But there is truth in my post as well. I remember my staff were very grateful for me doing that. So I think I was correct in doing it.

[hungryhippo]

Indeed a terrible waste of life, and teachers into the bargain.

However I must comment on the above and other posts.

I dont know how many of these posters actually travel on buses in Thailand but I do, as I have no use for a car therefore dont drive.

I have used buses over most of the country except the far north for the last 6 years and have never been in a bus that has even had a scratch.

Lots of people have died in busses and minivans over the years, your anecdotal evidence means nothing to the very real reality of preventable deaths in Thailand.

Simply having working seat belts in minivans and taxis would be a start. Let the people who do want to live have a chance.

[harleyclarkey]

This is dreadful slaughter which could and should have been avoided. Caused no doubt by a totally incompetent ill trained idiot who was stuck behind the wheel of a bus by an owner who could not give a toss. Did the company even bring him on a training course, like putting him for a few weeks beside a driver with experience of these roads? Not likely. Over 30 innocent souls dead and injured. I, for one, would like to see the bus company boss in jail. Some damm hope.

[lee68]

I drove from chaing mai to doi intanon on saturday,and i had the same problem.i was doing about a 100-110 and i had mini buses either tailgating me or trying to go round 1 side or the other or through me.all these buses are loaded with tourists who must be shitting themselves the way these guys drive,but alas most of the passengers are Thai and im sure wont say anything to the driver, because thats not done .i would never get in a mini bus ever. from c

RIP to all victims.

I was driving last week end heading North. I was doing 120 - 130 km / h, with a very good and perfectly maintained car. I know that my speed was already over the limit. You can not imagine how many loaded minibus passed me. And how many buses tried to pass, some staying on my side, forcing me to let them go...!!!!!!!! Scary.

These lunatic drivers are definitely not trained for this kind of job, and they do not care about other people lives...

I feel really bad for all those people who have no other choice than using those minibus and buses...

[Robby nz]

Indeed a terrible waste of life, and teachers into the bargain.

However I must comment on the above and other posts.

I dont know how many of these posters actually travel on buses in Thailand but I do, as I have no use for a car therefore dont drive.

I have used buses over most of the country except the far north for the last 6 years and have never been in a bus that has even had a scratch.

Lots of people have died in busses and minivans over the years, your anecdotal evidence means nothing to the very real reality of preventable deaths in Thailand.

Simply having working seat belts in minivans and taxis would be a start. Let the people who do want to live have a chance.

On a subject like this I can only post on what I know from my own personal experience.

It would be great if those laying blame and calling names could do the same.

Reading some of the posts makes me wonder just who the incompetant idiots are.

[Thunder26]

And the second report about a horrific traffic accident involving a minivan/bus in one single day! All you can do is only shake your head in resignation, because nothing will ever change in this country. Road safety and driving instruction are foreign concepts.

Do a little test with your taxi driver: As he whizzes you to your destination at breakneck speed, ask him about individual traffic signs and what they mean. You'll be lucky if he gets 1 out of 10 right. Traffic signs are just there to decorate roadsides and serve no tangible purpose.

Most of taxi drivers are drunks, who have no basic education, who cannot read the map, or even worse the road signs. Also they think they are very cool by driving fast, pushing the cars around. I haven't taken a taxi for years and not looking forward to taking one.

[Robby nz]

And the second report about a horrific traffic accident involving a minivan/bus in one single day! All you can do is only shake your head in resignation, because nothing will ever change in this country. Road safety and driving instruction are foreign concepts.

Do a little test with your taxi driver: As he whizzes you to your destination at breakneck speed, ask him about individual traffic signs and what they mean. You'll be lucky if he gets 1 out of 10 right. Traffic signs are just there to decorate roadsides and serve no tangible purpose.

Most of taxi drivers are drunks, who have no basic education, who cannot read the map, or even worse the road signs. Also they think they are very cool by driving fast, pushing the cars around. I haven't taken a taxi for years and not looking forward to taking one.

Now we have an expert on taxis and their drivers who hasent been in one in years.

Yes I use then in BKK also.