Fidel Castro says US ready to order NATO invasion of Libya

[mark45y]

Is there any oil or gas there? If not then they won't invade nothing to be gained.

Perhaps you could list the gas and oil reserves of France, North Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan.

[flying]

How ever negligible the amount of oil from Libya to US is............

Problems in Libya is enough to now drive the price per barrel to $100USD

Oil is priced in USD It is not important where oil goes

When price is affected all feel it.

Edited February 24, 2011 by flying

[Jingthing]

I'd like to clarify my position a little bit. I think Ghadafi is insane, like Hitler was insane. He has probably already murdered thousands already in his last stand to hang on to power, so the world is on notice. Will he need to murder a million before the world takes any effective action? Maybe he won't go that far, but he certainly shows signs that he might. I see each of these situations differently, and Libya is a specific case with an especially insane leader. I don't see the rationality of a blanket policy for all countries and all situations.

Do you mean Ghadafi is sort of like Saddam Hussein was?

I figured someone would ask that. As far as I can tell, Ghadafi is insane and Hussein was evil but not insane. Of course sane people also kill people, sadly. There are so many differences between these historical situations. In Iraq there wasn't an active revolt/civil war going on already when the US invaded.

[Steely Dan]

Not sure how many people will read this, but here's my two baht worth:

It will be a huge mistake for any western country to interfere in the north African/middle east unrest - it will ultimately lead to resent and (justified) suspicion of motives.

This is an opportunity for the Egyptian people to show their support for their Libyan neighbours and send their army in to liberate Tripoli. I am pretty sure the Libyan army will shrink away from a real threat and Gadaffi will be vanquished. Once order has been restored, the Egyptians pull out and suddenly there is a clear message to all these despots - listen to your people; use force on them and we will intervene (and by the way, our Libyan, Tunisian allies will join us)...

Gadaffi has already given the go-ahead for foreign soldiers to fight on Libyan soil, so I see no need for six months deliberation by UN, EU, USA, NATO before a resolution is passed. Invade now Egypt!

Western powers are already complicit in the length of tenure enjoyed by various middle eastern despots, and history does tend to show that every time we intervene it's for an alterior motive, namely oil. A shocking example of how little the west really cares is demonstrated by the Hama massacre; In 1982 president Assad of Syria violently put down a rebellion in the city of Hama, the death toll was estimated between 17,000 and 40,000. Syria has no oil. I'm not sure how many hundreds have already died in Libya but I think outside intervention would be forthcoming before we get anywhere near the Hama level.

Incidentally I would love nothing better than for Gaddafi to stand trial for his crimes though preferably in Libya rather than the Hague.

I am very sorry to intrude, but you are so wrong on this one.

Syria does have Oil, quite a lot of it actually, why else would the likes of Shell and countless other OC's be imbedded in Damascus.

There has been much more exploration in Iraq, hence more proven reserves. But look at Iraqi Kurdistan.....loads of oil right on the border with Syria.

I would be curious to know just how much oil Syria was thought to have back in 1982 when the Hama massacre occured. As the world was in a recession early 80's I doubt peak oil was even a consideration then and my point remains that Syria was not deemed important then.

[luckizuchinni]

The USA doesn't need Libyan oil, but western Europe does. Without Libya, Italy, and its neighbours are going to feel the pinch on oil supplies.

Oh pooh! We don't want reasonable discussions; give us great stories and the facts be damned!

How is it a story? Here are the facts;

- 85% of Libya's exports of crude oil go to Europe

- Libya supplies 22% of Italy's crude oil

- 8.5% of UK's crude oil supplies come from Libya

- China gets 3% of its crude oil from Libya

Source: International Energy Agency

10% of Italy's natural gas supplies come from just the one underwater pipeline from Libya.

The USA's energy imports from Libya are negligible. I've said it before and I'll repeat it: as long as the USA has Canada and Mexico as its two major energy suppliers, it can withstand upheaval in the energy markets. It will be painful, but unlike other countries, the USA has guaranteed energy supplies that can keep the country's key sectors functioning. Russia can do the same. Unfortunately, Asia and especially economies like China, South Korea and Japan along with the EU need middle eastern energy supplies to survive.

There you go, having to throw in facts to back your argument!

Don't you know it is rude and cruel to crumble others' absolute certainty that they know all merely based on their feelings? If you aren't careful, some of them might have to admit that they are wrong in a few areas.

[powderpuff]

The USA has no legal basis to attack Libya. .

Wow you went far afield in a hurry. F Libya with a capital F. It's a European problem - just like Bosnia, Serbia & the genocidal maniacs over there.

If Europe want to solve it - let them. Serious lack of nads in most circumstances.

I said -- not to Invade Somalia. But to shell the country till they hand over the pirates & any & all hostages held by them.

GK - by your statement you put credence into what Fidel Senor Big Big Communist has to say. I think he is suffering from advanced syphilis.

Believe me when I say I would not put one American life at risk over that lawless country. I would close any Embassies they have in USA & confine their UN reps & surveil them 24x7. I would not let any Somali gov't officials run around anywhere without FBI right beside them. I would be ready to declare them PNG for visiting a whorehouse or a bar & deport them.

What I said was that Teddy Roosevelt would have known how to deal with Somalia - unlike Obama who does not.

Edited February 25, 2011 by powderpuff

[tw25rw]

Did Ghaddafi throw his enemies off buildings and video it for his own pleasure.

I bet all kinds of stories will come out once he's gone.. I'm not sure he's quite as psychopathic as Saddam, but he's cruel and ruthless. Would surprise me somewhat if he's taken alive.

[TAWP]

It's amusing for me to be to the right of the right wing guys on the board for a change. I will savor the moment.

That is because in American political terms, both major political are into using force against countries without a declaration of war, meddling in other nations affairs, enforcing high import-tariffs and treat with the use of violence if things are not going their way.

Atleast the classical republicans wasn't so hungry for wars but that all changed when the neo-cons came over from the Dems and took over.

Now only alternative parties are against wars and expansionist intervention into situations not fully understood.

[craigt3365]

It's amusing for me to be to the right of the right wing guys on the board for a change. I will savor the moment.

That is because in American political terms, both major political are into using force against countries without a declaration of war, meddling in other nations affairs, enforcing high import-tariffs and treat with the use of violence if things are not going their way.

Atleast the classical republicans wasn't so hungry for wars but that all changed when the neo-cons came over from the Dems and took over.

Now only alternative parties are against wars and expansionist intervention into situations not fully understood.

Name one country that doesn't meddle in other countries affairs? Or deal with trade in nationalistic ways?

Check out this article. It's a breath of fresh air:

Warning Against Wars Like Iraq and Afghanistan

WEST POINT, N.Y. — Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates bluntly told an audience of West Point cadets on Friday that it would be unwise for the United States to ever fight another war like Iraq or Afghanistan, and that the chances of carrying out a change of government in that fashion again were slim.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/26/world/26gates.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=globasasa22

[Hawaiian]

It's amusing for me to be to the right of the right wing guys on the board for a change. I will savor the moment.

That is because in American political terms, both major political are into using force against countries without a declaration of war, meddling in other nations affairs, enforcing high import-tariffs and treat with the use of violence if things are not going their way.

Atleast the classical republicans wasn't so hungry for wars but that all changed when the neo-cons came over from the Dems and took over.

Now only alternative parties are against wars and expansionist intervention into situations not fully understood.

Name one country that doesn't meddle in other countries affairs? Or deal with trade in nationalistic ways?

Check out this article. It's a breath of fresh air:

Warning Against Wars Like Iraq and Afghanistan

WEST POINT, N.Y. — Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates bluntly told an audience of West Point cadets on Friday that it would be unwise for the United States to ever fight another war like Iraq or Afghanistan, and that the chances of carrying out a change of government in that fashion again were slim.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/26/world/26gates.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=globasasa22

Gates is right. If the U.S. had waited long enough the rebellion virus circulating in the Middle East today would probably be caught by the Iraqis. Better only Iraqi lives lost than wasting the lives of American men and women. America should have let the Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds fight it out. Bush, Cheney and Rummy Inc. thought all of the American lives sacrificed were enough to turn Iraq into a western style democracy. In return the Iraqi people would reward America with oil. What a sad fairytale.

[neverdie]

Let them fend for themselves. Everyone thinks America has self serving motives and is trying to rule the world.

F em. I for one am tired of being ridiculed for being a good samaritan.

Thats a very good point Mark. IMO the USA is in a difficult situation these days, damned if they do damned if they don't.

I think only one thing is for certain in this day & age: "Nothing is for certain".

Having said that, someone definately needs to turn the light out on this savage & that would best be done by someone close to him & someone that can take immediate control and liberate these people. In many respects we have come along way from the dark times & in others not. How can a man like this come to be in power & remain there for so long in this day & age? Anyway enough about Obama, Gaddafi needs to go too & the sooner the better.

[metisdead]

It is perfectly acceptable to report on events and give opinions, it is not acceptable to post in a manner in which to bash any specific country. One post removed.

[LaoPo]

Name one country that doesn't meddle in other countries affairs? Or deal with trade in nationalistic ways?

Check out this article. It's a breath of fresh air:

Warning Against Wars Like Iraq and Afghanistan

WEST POINT, N.Y. — Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates bluntly told an audience of West Point cadets on Friday that it would be unwise for the United States to ever fight another war like Iraq or Afghanistan, and that the chances of carrying out a change of government in that fashion again were slim.

http://www.nytimes.c...emc=globasasa22

That was said after the Vietnam war also.

And, further up in the article he said:

“In my opinion, any future defense secretary who advises the president to again send a big American land army into Asia or into the Middle East or Africa should ‘have his head examined,’ as General MacArthur so delicately put it,” Mr. Gates told an assembly of Army cadets here."

and: <snip>

"“The odds of repeating another Afghanistan or Iraq — invading, pacifying, and administering a large third-world country — may be low,” Mr. Gates said....."

...hmmm...what about Iran ?

Is Mr. Gates so sure that the odds of repeating another war "may be low" ?

LaoPo

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted and a quote to it. It would appear that the poster had the wrong thread.

[Hawaiian]

Bush Cheney & Rumsfeld knew what to do when they found a nest of snakes.

Afghanistan as headquarters of Al-Queida & the Taliban was unacceptable.

The Somali situation right now is unacceptable.

We need a multi-national force to go in there & kill every last pirate. Shoot first no questions asked. Not a law enforcement action.

Barack has no stomach for that. To him everyone deserves a lawyer.

[Hawaiian]

People who are so convinced that this is the right thing to do should lead the troops into battle and put their own precious lives on the line. If there is one specific target this is what armed drones and short range missiles are for. Another strategy would be to offer Ghaddafi's hired guns a hefty reward to turn against him. Mercenaries' only loyalty is to the paymaster that provides the highest wages.

Edited February 26, 2011 by Hawaiian

[EnSvenskTiger]

The wise old man is proven more ”fidel” every hour.

UN and HATO have served out their old role as world and peace protectors. They are now in the hands of the mega companies working for mega dollars.

Tiger

[ParadiseLost]

From the BBC News website:

Libya declares an immediate ceasefire to protect civilians in accordance with a UN Security Council resolution, the foreign minister says.

Gadaffi is no fool, he can still achieve what he wants without using the big toys. He has, by accepting this resolution effectively taken the wind out of the UN's sails...

I think the Egyptians missed the opportunity to add momentum to the idealistic 'revolutions' taking place. Unfortunately it now seems Libya has shown that the uprisings can be overthrown by the use of force.

Bahrain has kicked sand in the USA's face and Yemen is kicking off as well.

How long before this becomes a Sunni vs Shia 'holy war'?

[mark45y]

The wise old man is proven more ”fidel” every hour.

UN and HATO have served out their old role as world and peace protectors. They are now in the hands of the mega companies working for mega dollars.

Tiger

Dear EnSvenskTiger. I am confused on this one. Do you favor intervention in Libya and Bahrain by other countries to protect civilians or are you in favor of seeing the current dictators sort things out themselves?

[EnSvenskTiger]

http://rianovosti.com/world/20110324/163177047.html

Amazing! How did he know so early? Must have some direct line to Wikileaks or something.

"The United States has started the deployment of more than 4,000 marines and sailors to the Mediterranean Sea to support the ongoing military operation in Libya, the U.S. Navy news service said.

The decision to deploy servicemen from the Bataan Amphibious Ready Group (BATARG) and 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit was made "based on continuing urgent needs in Libya and the region," said the report, which was distributed on the DVIDS website.

"Amphibious ships are optimally suited for executing a wide range of missions, from humanitarian assistance to theater and maritime security operations," BATARG commander Capt. Steven J. Yoder was quoted as saying"

Humanitarian assistance! My @ss!

Tiger

[geriatrickid]

http://rianovosti.co.../163177047.html

Amazing! How did he know so early? Must have some direct line to Wikileaks or something.

"The United States has started the deployment of more than 4,000 marines and sailors to the Mediterranean Sea to support the ongoing military operation in Libya, the U.S. Navy news service said.

The decision to deploy servicemen from the Bataan Amphibious Ready Group (BATARG) and 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit was made "based on continuing urgent needs in Libya and the region," said the report, which was distributed on the DVIDS website.

"Amphibious ships are optimally suited for executing a wide range of missions, from humanitarian assistance to theater and maritime security operations," BATARG commander Capt. Steven J. Yoder was quoted as saying"

Humanitarian assistance! My @ss!

Tiger

A large part of US humanitarian aid being delivered to Japan is via its amphibious ships. There is a refugee crisis in Libya and sooner or later aid will have to be delivered.

I am still opposed to a US presence, but it was dragged into it by its European and Arab allies. I give the US credit for looking to minimize it involvement. This should be left with the EU. Germany should put its non involvement position into full action and stop importing Libyan oil.

[metisdead]

Troll posts removed.

[bangkokeddy]

Is the USA involved or not? I am little bit confused about this issue now.