Crackdown On Backpack Teachers

[Ijustwannateach]

I think the primary purpose of the crackdown announcement is bring out the trolls on Thaivisa.

Eliminating the lower end of teacher supply is not much of a threat to me personally, though I feel sorry for those caught in the middle; however, pretending that the government has the wherewithal to regulate even further a market where most people are already working illegally (regardless of qualifications) is simply silly. This, too, will pass.

"Steven"

[sting01]

This is abject nonsense. In more than twenty years in international higher education, I have ALWAYS been provided with all of the above (apart from lesson plans, which I agree are the responsibility of the individual teacher) by my employers. Just like any other professional expatriate package. The only exception was Thailand, and this is the principal reason why so few professional educators are tempted in the first place, except perhaps to work for the handful of genuine international schools. Those who do venture there usually end up fleeing in horror from the atrocious working conditions, the xenophobia of the Thai ajarns and administrators, and the generally low standards and chaotic unprofessionalism of the Thai edutainment circus.

Despite all the hype and political posturing, professional foreign educators are not welcome, nor are they particularly wanted in the Thai education system. Thai teachers don’t want them because the pittance they receive is a little more than the pittance paid to the Thais, and the presence of competent foreigner teachers merely serves to underline the incompetence and ignorance of many of the Thai teachers. School owners and administrators don’t really want them because they are more expensive, more demanding and less likely to put up with gross ineptitude than Thais. And the Thai elite and their political mouthpieces certainly don’t want them, for fear that they might actually teach little Nit or Somchai to think, and then where would we be?

Anyone who believes that this latest pronouncement is going to have any effect whatsoever on the “quality” of education in Thailand, is living in cloud-cuckoo land. For one thing, such utterances are usually forgotten a couple of minutes after they are made. For another, the malaise afflicting the education system as a whole runs so deep, that it will take a huge investment of effort, time and MONEY to come up with solutions which will really work. I see no indication whatever that such planning is in progress. Instead we have the usual strategy of “blame the farang” and apply the cheapest band-aid you can find, because the Thai public will surely fall for it.

This post has been edited by Rumpole: Today, 2005-09-11 08:11:35

I agree.

Several posters seems to be qualified in english as I (I'm a frog), maybe yes there is a real problem with the quality of the foreign teachers?

About teaching, I taught (6 month) in Chayapum, taught english not french ... believe me, but the thai theachers of english language where (with the exception of 1 young lady) all less qualified as I. So do I am a qualified english teacher? No way, I speak english like a spanish cow,.... Did I elevated the level of english language in Chayapum and neiborough? I think I did, at least the kids (and the teacher also) have learned how to tell the time correctly, and it was excetionaly difficult, because the main teacher (with as credential the fact to have stay 6 month in new brunswick 13 years ago) stated only him knew how to tell the time ... if was necessary to get the online related course from Cambridge(U.K.) to stop to hear " it's twenty height minutes and six o'clock " ...

Easy to crack on one category, but roots of the problems are deeper , and more qualified people have explain them here, so I will not.

Roxanne

[Malice in Wonderland]

Good move,should make it easier to get to the bar during happy hours!!!!

[Scott]

There is a strong need for setting up qualifications for English Teachers in Thailand. I am not sure how anyone can dispute this fact. There needs to be some base lines established.

1. A native speaker must be just that a native speaker.

2. Non-native English speakers teaching English need to be tested to determine their proficiency. Native speakers aren't always necessary (or the best), but non-native speakers need to be qualified.

3. People must be qualified to teach--that qualification can be a specialized course in teaching English or a degree. It's not that a particular degree is needed, but some training, some understanding of the subject material and the process by which different age groups learn. Experience and workshops etc. can also count toward this "certification."

4. Remember, especially with young learners, they are impressionable and easily frustrated and scared. KG and Grade 1-2 students can be damaged by overly demanding and aggressive teachers. I've seen this happen. For this group, some training/experience in early childhood education is essential.

5. Money is a factor. You get what you pay for. Good teachers recruited to Thailand need to have a decent wage on which they can live more than just comfortably. They need to be able to have an enjoyable and motivating life here. Some also have bills to pay at home. Most expats in most countries are paid well because they have to live in one country, but may have obligations in their own country--their called bills. College recruits may have less bills, but a lot will still have a loan to pay. It is a relatively inexpensive country and wages don't have to be comparable to their own country, but certain things need to be present, visa costs, work permits, health insurance and housing (or housing allowance).

6. Standards of teaching need to be set. A lot of schools need the students to pass the national tests. This is easy. They can accomplish this without being able to carry on a conversation.

7. Last but not least, the biggest need is to upgrade the standard of the Thai English teachers. Where I work, the students often have to act as an interpreter for the English teacher and the Thai English Teacher. Many present an entire lesson in Thai, with only written English grammar on the board.

[jomama]

Those who do venture there usually end up fleeing in horror from the atrocious working conditions, the xenophobia of the Thai ajarns and administrators, and the generally low standards and chaotic unprofessionalism of the Thai edutainment circus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Basically fairly accurate, with some exceptions I've seen. On the other hand, Thai managers have a hard time with the sense of entitlement that many farangs bring to the job -- "I must have internet access at all times in my classroom so I can check my personal email and print out whatever voluminous personal stuff I want."

Foreigners work far shorter hours, create more overt tension and make far more demands than do the Thais, so it can be draining to deal with them. I find this true particularly with Brits. They seem to struggle with the notion that everything is not done everywhere exactly like it is in Britain.

Recently a part-time French teacher thought it normal to commandeer a computer, reformat it, install a new operating system and install his own email client..all in the first two days on the job. He then complained he didn't have his own office. He works eight hours a week.

However the vast majority are dedicated and attempt to do a good job. They certainly leave their students with far more than when the teacher arrived. Even a native English speaker who is a "backpacker" will enhance their students, both linguistically and culturally...far more than the Thai ajarn who has been teaching "English" for the past 15 years, yet cannot speak the language comprehensibly.

Those of you who denigrate teachers should note that the work day starts around 7 a.m., (for full-time teachers), so if they go home at 4 p.m., it has already been a normal work day. Also, dealing with students and their problems all day is more taxing than sitting at a computer and sending out emails on business quotations. And a good teacher worth his (or her) salt will be on their feet much of the day, lecturing or helping at students' desks.

One nice thing about Thailand is that they do value teachers, unlike the West, where it is thought that "those who cannot do, teach." Most of the foreigners I've known in Thailand who had full-time jobs have been far more dedicated than the teachers I had growing up in the U.S.

[kat]

The establishments would of course be able to hire better qualified teachers if they paid a decent salary + health care + visa + work permit + teachers license, and provided pre-prepared lesson plans and support materials.  All of which are minimum demand from professional teachers.

And I thought these expenses should be the workers' responsibilities? I have never seen any employers who want decent staff have to pay for all these!!

This is abject nonsense. In more than twenty years in international higher education, I have ALWAYS been provided with all of the above (apart from lesson plans, which I agree are the responsibility of the individual teacher) by my employers. Just like any other professional expatriate package. The only exception was Thailand, and this is the principal reason why so few professional educators are tempted in the first place, except perhaps to work for the handful of genuine international schools. Those who do venture there usually end up fleeing in horror from the atrocious working conditions, the xenophobia of the Thai ajarns and administrators, and the generally low standards and chaotic unprofessionalism of the Thai edutainment circus.

Despite all the hype and political posturing, professional foreign educators are not welcome, nor are they particularly wanted in the Thai education system. Thai teachers don’t want them because the pittance they receive is a little more than the pittance paid to the Thais, and the presence of competent foreigner teachers merely serves to underline the incompetence and ignorance of many of the Thai teachers. School owners and administrators don’t really want them because they are more expensive, more demanding and less likely to put up with gross ineptitude than Thais. And the Thai elite and their political mouthpieces certainly don’t want them, for fear that they might actually teach little Nit or Somchai to think, and then where would we be?

Anyone who believes that this latest pronouncement is going to have any effect whatsoever on the “quality” of education in Thailand, is living in cloud-cuckoo land. For one thing, such utterances are usually forgotten a couple of minutes after they are made. For another, the malaise afflicting the education system as a whole runs so deep, that it will take a huge investment of effort, time and MONEY to come up with solutions which will really work. I see no indication whatever that such planning is in progress. Instead we have the usual strategy of “blame the farang” and apply the cheapest band-aid you can find, because the Thai public will surely fall for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This post articulates the problem perfectly. Thai bureaucracy can try to eliminate the "problem" of unqualified foreign "backpacker" teachers all they want, but that will not change the deeply entrenched incompetence and utter idiocy of their education administrators, both at the lower and elite levels. The influx of unqualified, illegal teachers is just one symptom, not the cause, of a deeply flawed "educational" system.

Tell me, what "real" teacher is going to "teach" in a classroom of 40-50 kids, with no room to move, and where the teacher is mostly known as "farang", by both the students and adults? Where the same students can goof off and disrupt the classroom all semester, but will be given a passing grade even if it overides the teacher's evaluation? These are just two examples of a myriad of very serious, Thai-made problems at all levels of their educational system.

Like everywhere, education is linked to the cultural and political framework of a country. It is no coincidence that almost every branch of government and bureaucracy seems to be in dire need of a major overhaul. But, none of it will ever change until Thailand faces the fact that not a single institution in this society will change until there is a major cultural reformation; go ahead and flame me if it makes you feel better, but merely observing and stating the truth does not make you the culprit.

Let's look at cause and effect for a moment. Last month it was reported that Thailand ranked next-to-last in English throughout S.E. Asia. This result was across the board for both elite and government schools. Predictably, Thai society now has to search for a scapegoat, instead of examining the problem from all angles, including internally. That's what I think is the root cause of this current "crackdown".

Low test scores equal a loss of face, which means someone else's face has to make up for the loss. Otherwise, unqualified teachers would have been addressed a long time ago. However, this would have been of no benefit to anyone, especially the greedy Thai-owned language schools and the people they pay off.

[MyNameIsFarang]

I believe the retention of the Thai script is a contributing factor in holding back literacy - also, how many times have you observed a Thai child reading an english text ?  Africa and India are generally way ahead in the ability to speak reasonable  english.  I understand that the monks have over the years resisted any changes to

the present system, this challenge has meant that the government of the time has been unable (or unwilling) to bite on the bullet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you seriously suggesting that Thailand should convert to using the Roman alphabet??

There are already enough problems teaching that alphabet to those who relative few who want to learn English - imagine the chaos having to teach it to all native Thais so they can read their own language.

You have thought this through at all!

Patrick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not as ridiculous as it sounds. Drastic for sure, but not stupid.

It was done successfully in Turkey and Poland. In the case of Turkey it was part of a push to modernise the country.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well played and quite correct.

The original comment that "retention of the Thai script is a contributing factor in holding back literacy" made me wonder. Certainly Thais on average seem to manage with literacy in Thai. Well, cheap comic books anyway.

Did the commenter mean to say that the use of phonetic spelling in Thai characters to teach English is the problem? I would wholeheartedly agree with that.

[Buff-horns]

if they weed out all the incompetent ,lazy,drunken, leacherous pervert , unqualified english teachers with fake degrees wont there be a drastic shortage ? surely 1 of these cowboys is better than nothing ,so long as they are cheap??

[aqua4]

if they weed out all the incompetent ,lazy,drunken, leacherous pervert , unqualified english teachers with fake degrees wont there be a drastic shortage ? surely 1 of these cowboys is better than nothing ,so long as they are cheap??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that is the problem as it is don't you agree?

There is already a shortage of labour in the market. "Weeding" the market will only make it worst. How many Government schools will want to fork out 50K minimum per month for a teacher.

Now they talk about bringing in the Fillipinos and the Indians. Do you really think that will happen? I don't think so. How many adverts read --- NO ASIANS. Bringing in Asians would be a loss of face! They will not stand for it. As for Indians, they are the wrong colour. We know how colour works in Thailand, dont we?

[Rigger]

and they just relized this 

half the teachers in Australia are not Mentaly quilifiyed

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well thats a very intelligent quote Rigger --- I sure hope your not an Aussi --- let alone a teacher -- or what -- you fail high school and blame them

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes I am a Aussie and no I didn’t fail high school

I just don’t see how Thailand is going to clean up the standard of teachers when countries like Australia can’t even do it but I won’t go into that as what I would have to say will upset to many posters as the truth hurts but how do these parasites get in and stay in teaching

And many may think I hate teachers but I really don’t my sister is a qualified teacher and I dated two teachers a years ago and the three teachers I have meet in Thailand have all been decent people as far as I could tell.

And never try and judge someone’s intelligents by there education as some of the highly educated people I know have about as much comment sense as smashed crab

[JML]

I believe the retention of the Thai script is a contributing factor in holding back literacy - also, how many times have you observed a Thai child reading an english text ?  Africa and India are generally way ahead in the ability to speak reasonable  english.  I understand that the monks have over the years resisted any changes to

the present system, this challenge has meant that the government of the time has been unable (or unwilling) to bite on the bullet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you seriously suggesting that Thailand should convert to using the Roman alphabet??

There are already enough problems teaching that alphabet to those who relative few who want to learn English - imagine the chaos having to teach it to all native Thais so they can read their own language.

You have thought this through at all!

Patrick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not as ridiculous as it sounds. Drastic for sure, but not stupid.

It was done successfully in Turkey and Poland. In the case of Turkey it was part of a push to modernise the country.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well played and quite correct.

The original comment that "retention of the Thai script is a contributing factor in holding back literacy" made me wonder. Certainly Thais on average seem to manage with literacy in Thai. Well, cheap comic books anyway.

Did the commenter mean to say that the use of phonetic spelling in Thai characters to teach English is the problem? I would wholeheartedly agree with that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, this is getting off topic, but I just had to reply. Yes the use of Thai characters completely adds to the problem of Thai pronunciation. First, a little closer to home, this method of using roman characters has been completely implemented in Vietnam (and Vietnamese has more tones than Thai) ... the French abolished their writing (which I believe to be mainly Chinese, but I could be very wrong about that) and now they have a more english looking vocab. The english in Vietnam is better than it is here ... just look at these Vietnamese kids selling flowers in BKK. I am sure there are other factors as well, but the Thai script is surely one of them.

Furthermore, let's move down south to Malaysia. They have taken the roman character set and even perfected it a bit. Words are spelled exactly like they are pronounced, like Spanish. I can read every word on every sign, and everyone will understand what I am saying. Again, look at the quality of English in that country, bordering Thailand.

Have you ever said words like "computer" or "copy" to a Thai, and they don't seem to understand, even though they usually use the same words in Thai? This has to do with the way they use Thai script to spell the english words. This reinforces the use of tones and very poor proper english pronunciation.

A little back on track:

If the government is serious about improving the language level in Thailand, drastic steps need to be taken, along with real attraction for qualified foreign teachers.

They need to stop relying on the natural beauty of Thailand ... and its women ... to attract teachers. If there is no money to be had for this ... then there must be 1,000 out of the box ways to attract teachers with some kind of qualifications to come and stay for a bit.

But I don't see them really wanting to improve the level of english and real education in the provinces, except for the wealthy that they try to appease. Can you imagine Buriram girls being educated? Where would all the Thai ... um, entertainment industry workers ... come from? Oh, right, Khorat and Surin.

I am no teacher, but I taught for a day in Mukdahan ... the school was thrilled to have a foreigner come and speak to the kids. Those that have posted about the local teachers not being speak or understand english are completely correct. If I could not speak Thai, I would not have been able to talk to the teachers.

It seems the real point of this article (to me) is that rich Thais are not getting an appropriate education for the price they are paying. That is the "news worthy" point.

Trying to get rid of "backpackers" from the teaching industry in the provinces? 1) I don't see the gov really caring about that 2) ANYTHING is an improvement from the woman teaching English from a 10 year old cartoon book (they were kids after all) ... and struggling with the pronunciation herself.

Cheers all. Personal opinion ... no more, no less.

[dseawarrior]

Tidbits...

Gaz ChiangMai and Kat and a few others seem to have their thinking well put together here... Thank you!

Having taught for one year at an international school in Chiang Mai, I have seen a real "fear" of good, qualified teachers... The international school administration (both Thai and English bosses) seem most concerned about collecting their high tuition and "edutaining" their students. Little regard is put to actually measuring what students have learned or what those students may need to learn in the future. Much of this lack of accountability seems to stem from the fear of "losing face" where "bad" news might be reported. (Such as your 10th grade child is actually reading at a 4th grade level.) This is not really "bad news" or "losing face" but facing up to reality! This kind of news should be welcomed! The truth _does_ set people free!

Few changes will happen until Thai people and all people worldwide start to search for real honesty and truth! Weak teachers and teaching is a reflection of weak bosses and supervision. The same can be said of the Thai government and other governments around the globe (e.g. the USA's current failure in leadership -- can that guy Bush read or not???).

Truth is freedom and people in general seem afraid of both. The fear stems from the essential RISK that is necessary to really learn and think as a free person... (No one wants to rock the boat, but rocking the boat may be exactly what is needed!)

Feel free to contact me for more detailed comments on the state of education in Thailand, the USA and the world... Yes, it is a mess out there but a lot of good work is happening...

An editorial comment:

Language names are ALWAYS capitalized in writing:

English not english

Thai not thai

Chinese not chinese

Japanese not japanese

Is that clear? Why spell someone's name as "mary" or "john" when they deserve the respect of Mary and John?

In reviewing these posts, it seemed that the better thinkers and writing knew these basic capitization rules. Spelling counts too! Use your dictionaries or spell-checkers if you have trouble spelling -- otherwise your posts look and feel stupid!!! Oy jang loei!

These problems in education will continue -- it is up to us to develop out of these problems...

Kao jai mai?

Chok dee na...

dseawarrior

Chiang Mai and San Francisco

(and yes, I have a Ph.D. in education)

feel free to PM me as you like...

[dseawarrior]

Oops...

I wrote:

In reviewing these posts, it seemed that the better thinkers and writing knew these basic capitization rules

but meant to write:

In reviewing these posts, it seemed that the better thinkers and writers knew these basic capitalization rules.

Minor errors, but the devil is in the details...

dseawarrior

[A. BOOZER]

I AM AN ENGINEER AND NOT TEACHING ENGLISH.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

can you fix your caps button then? you also need to take an English class.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do wish that some people would realize that not everyone reading or contributing to this forum is a native English speaker. in my opinion their thoughts are quite welcome. How many of us would be able to reply in a forum in a language different to our own?

Going back to the original title of this thread, "Probe into complaints over backpack teachers "Teachers not properly trained or tested by ministry standards.

If I were a qualified teacher, with a work permit, I do not think that I would be happy with this situation. A regular influx of individuals working for a minimal salary, surely endangers the positions of those who, have, by their own academic achievements, managed to obtain regular employment within the Thai educational system.

[frenchFARANGbkk]

The establishments would of course be able to hire better qualified teachers if they paid a decent salary + health care + visa + work permit + teachers license, and provided pre-prepared lesson plans and support materials.  All of which are minimum demand from professional teachers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Free bargirls also?! ;-)

I don't understand the ones who complain about the bad teachers... what's the problem, do you really believe that Thai student will learn more with good teachers?! Even the good teachers tell how the Thai learn...

[fxe1200]

Yeah a great nice move by the government. I hope that this practice will eliminate the teachers with fake degrees and the real teachers will come to serve the education community.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fantastic government move, all REAL teachers have a degree in education(BEd), how many teachers in Thailand have that????!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I urge the government not to miss out Hat Yai in Songkla during their crackdown. There they can find teachers who are teaching English by reading substantives out of a picture book and have the pupils write them down. They lack a correct pronounciation, never heard anything about grammar or idioms and cannot speak English at all. Unfortunately they are no backpackers, they are just local Thai English teachers.

[RJJ]

This is slightly off topic, but I want to make a point here too.

Whilst reading these posts, I have become so annoyed, then ashamed at the quality of English here.

Even those large posts with the big words sound impressive, but there are mistakes there too.

No wonder English is dying; the native speakers cannot even write it correctly.

I urge every one of you to go back and read your posts.

It is embarrassing, both for the language and for yourselves.

This is directed at the people who's natural language IS English and even more so for the people that call themselves teachers.

[kat]

Tidbits... 

Gaz ChiangMai and Kat and a few others seem to have their thinking well put together here...  Thank you! 

Having taught for one year at an international school in Chiang Mai, I have seen a real "fear" of good, qualified teachers...  The international school administration (both Thai and English bosses) seem most concerned about collecting their high tuition and "edutaining" their students.  Little regard is put to actually measuring what students have learned or what those students may need to learn in the future.  Much of this lack of accountability seems to stem from the fear of "losing face" where "bad" news might be reported.  (Such as your 10th grade child is actually reading at a 4th grade level.)  This is not really "bad news" or "losing face" but facing up to reality!  This kind of news should be welcomed!  The truth _does_ set people free! 

Few changes will happen until Thai people and all people worldwide start to search for real honesty and truth!  Weak teachers and teaching is a reflection of weak bosses and supervision.  The same can be said of the Thai government and other governments around the globe (e.g. the USA's current failure in leadership -- can that guy Bush read or not???). 

Truth is freedom and people in general seem afraid of both.  The fear stems from the essential RISK that is necessary to really learn and think as a free person...  (No one wants to rock the boat, but rocking the boat may be exactly what is needed!) 

Feel free to contact me for more detailed comments on the state of education in Thailand, the USA and the world...  Yes, it is a mess out there but a lot of good work is happening... 

An editorial comment:

Language names are ALWAYS capitalized in writing:

English  not english

Thai  not thai

Chinese    not chinese

Japanese  not japanese

Is that clear?  Why spell someone's name as "mary" or "john" when they deserve the respect of Mary and John? 

In reviewing these posts, it seemed that the better thinkers and writing knew these basic capitization rules.  Spelling counts too!  Use your dictionaries or spell-checkers if you have trouble spelling -- otherwise your posts look and feel stupid!!!  Oy jang loei!

These problems in education will continue -- it is up to us to develop out of these problems... 

Kao jai mai?

Chok dee na...

dseawarrior

Chiang Mai and San Francisco

(and yes, I have a Ph.D. in education)

feel free to PM me as you like...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for your input dsea. Your point about spelling and grammar is well taken, but this is an internet forum where immediacy and fluency of thought is more important than perfect editing, don't you think?

Otherwise, I would stay home and write the academic papers which are behind schedule, rather than post opinion on a forum.

[daeng12]

Yeah, and I'm sure there will be a steady stream of legally qualified (Degree & TEFL) teachers, just queuing up to work for £100 a week in poor conditions, with long hours & little or no help from the Thai staff in a country where they have a shortage of teachers as it is.

Actually, in rural areas, it's more like 20 pounds U.K. per week. When I checked out teaching possibilities in Phayao (northern Thailand) 6 years ago, every school I visited told me that the starting salary would be 6500 ฿ per month. That's about $38 U.S. per week, or 21 pounds U.K. per week. That was the starting salary for a Thai teacher. The only way that Thailand is going to be able to bring in an adequate amount of qualified English teachers is if the government subsidizes it (as happens in other Asian countries). That the Thai government has not done this shows a genuine lack of commitment to having the Thai people become proficient in the English language. One of my students (I teach private classes, not in a school) showed me a Thai newspaper article recently which showed that Thai students scored lower than students in almost every other Asian country in English skills. (There were two parts to the test; I think overall Thai students finished 7th or 8th out of 9 countries; I wish I'd xeroxed a copy of that article so I could report the data accurately.)

[MikeRay]

To me Thailand would do better sending graduated and talented Thai teachers to spend two years in a country where english is a native language.They could do e.g some voluntary work at schools or pre-schools.Perhaps au-pair work could help also.

Young professional Thais ( and not the ones with connections & money ) should have the possibility to apply for scholarships, paid by Thai or foreign government or a combination of both.

I think that could help as it seems essential to me to experience a language where it is spoken.That´s the only way to get a feeling and a ear for a living language.

With this acquired knowledge they could tutor other teachers, an explanation in the mother tongue is clearer than in a foreign language.

Thailand is still a developing country, even they do better than their neighbours, the level of english is about the lowest in SE Asia ascertained just a few months ago and they should do something about it.

They still have a winning margin in comparison to their neighbours but it´s not overwhelming.

As that wouldn´t effect Thai enemy laws so much and wouldn´t boost the costs for english lessons at Thai schools it seems to be doable in nearly 5 years.

So come on, all helpful people of the UK and former Commonwealth, let´s do fundraising for this project.

[kamalit]

Yeah a great nice move by the government. I hope that this practice will eliminate the teachers with fake degrees and the real teachers will come to serve the education community- Ajarnmark

Yeah, and I'm sure there will be a steady stream of legally qualified (Degree & TEFL) teachers, just queuing up to work for £100 a week in poor conditions, with long hours & little or no help from the Thai staff in a country where they have a shortage of teachers as it is. 

That'll show 'em 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

£100 a week in Thailand can go a long way if these farangs don't spend it all on drugs, booze and kinky (not regular) sex with who knows what. It's annoying to hear the farang community complains about everything here but yet they keep coming and staying in droves. What's up with that??? Thailand is what it is, if it's so bad, move to Vietnam or better yet the UK.

[ajarnmark]

Can't say that the Thai teachers are up to much either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats true, However the Thai Teachers find it a little more difficult to buy thier on line T.E.F.L.E qualifications,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TEFLE.......

Is this me or this is a new qualification?

Plz let me update my knowledge and give me some more information about this

[ajarnmark]

The establishments would of course be able to hire better qualified teachers if they paid a decent salary + health care + visa + work permit + teachers license, and provided pre-prepared lesson plans and support materials.  All of which are minimum demand from professional teachers.

The Government's cop-out double standards in the 2003/04 visa rules rewrites regarding minimum salaries only applying to foreign investor/owner businesspeople, instead of all foreigners employed in the kingdom has been a license for usury of all but the very best overseas recruited teachers (i.e. those with Masters or Doctors degrees teaching conversational English recruited from home countries but delivering lesson plans barely as advanced as any BG can pick up while touting her body).

Professionalism in Thai Education - don't make me laugh - rarely exists and at the end of the day, the government big shots don't want it as it'll spoil the status quo.

However the blame doesn't stop there, a great deal of it must be laid at the door of the students parents - since when was 30 Baht per hour an exhorbitant fee .... unless you're an Isaan rice farmer or Chiang Rai hilltribe tea cropper?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

----------------------------------------->

Gaz, the best response so far - Having lived and worked in Thailand's sticksville for the last 6 years - I have yet to find a school , where the teacher of english is able to hold a decent conversation in english. A good Thai friend who has been teaching english for the last 25 years cannot SPEAK comprehensible english. I am willing to bet that this situation is duplicated in > 90% Thailand's schools.

I believe the retention of the Thai script is a contributing factor in holding back literacy - also, how many times have you observed a Thai child reading an english text ? Africa and India are generally way ahead in the ability to speak reasonable english. I understand that the monks have over the years resisted any changes to

the present system, this challenge has meant that the government of the time has been unable (or unwilling) to bite on the bullet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is English the matter of literacy? I just come to know this

If it is true then why China or Japan made the progress without English.

As far as Africa and India are concerned, they have been colonized by any of the european countries, which is not the case for Thailand.

Anyway, for me, language is just a medium of communication and we should not make it a matter of life or death.

[ajarnmark]

What do they consider a bilingual school? How many of these schools are there compared to other schools (public) of the same grade in Thailand? Is this only the rich complaining without consideration of the poorer schools in Thailand?

I think the parents have a valid complaint if they are paying for their kids to go to a private school. They should have a fully qualified teacher teaching English. I wouldn’t expect “coach” service in a “first class” institution.

But I don’t see a problem with backpackers helping in schools that don’t require high tuition fees. I have seen the English teachers in the village where I live and they usually have to have a translator to talk with me.

I think the backpacker teachers should be allowed to help in these schools because the quality of the teacher is less than the quality of the backpacker.

But I don’t think the backpacker should be left alone in the class. The teacher should use the backpacker as a tool to assist in teaching the lesson.

I don’t think the assistant backpacker teacher should be paid as much as the teacher either. If they want that benefit they should go to school, raise their qualifications, and be fully certified by the Education Ministry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice reply..... I really liked ur approach.

[ajarnmark]

  I don't usually bother with replying to much that I see and read in here but geez people. "A top rate teacher will draw 65,000 in Canada so how can they expect someone to work here for 25,000 thb?" You obviously don't teach Economics or your math just sucks, I'm not sure which. Let's start with something simple for you: ever buy a pack of cigarettes in Canada? "No decent teacher would work for 30,000thb unless they just loved living here." DUH! If you DON'T love living here, why are you here?!? If your respective counties were so great then why did you leave? Sit back and chew on that for a minute before responding. Yes, this country, like so many others, has it's issues but if you're not trying to be part of the solution then......well, you should know how that ends.  How much did whining and crying help where you left? Yes, there are poorly qualified teachers here and everywhere else for that matter. "A random check revealed 95 schools with poorly qualified teachers in BKK alone." Let's see, there are what, 5,000-8,000 schools in BKK alone. The "random check" was 95 out of how many checked? Where's the full report? This kind of drivel is why I don't turn on BBC or FOX news. I keep expecting them to hire "Sideshow Bob" to boost ratings because their reporting is, well, crap. "70,000thb + health + housing + benifits + visa + wp + preprepared lesson plans is what a truely professional teacher would demand." Gimme a break! Would you like them to follow to the toilet and wipe your butt or shake your 'dew drops' off when you finish or can you handle that much. Write your own d#@n lesson plans. Your mind and your command of the English language is why they hired you. I work for one of the top schools in Thailand but I had to rewrite the entire computer curriculum before teaching it. They were still using Pascal as an up to date programming language. Any IT people out there will know what I mean by this. Ok, I'm geting alittle long winded here. All I'm saying people is, take a bite of reality, calculate the percentages of income kept in your pockets, (not what it's worth 'back home') go out side and look back at the house you couldn't afford before and just smile and relax a bit. Sermon over, flame if you must.  ps. I don't own a backpack 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Another nice reply..... I totally agree with u.....

Also, they dont keep in mind the cost of living in both Canada and Thailand or for that matter any other country. I left my country bcoz I was sick and tired there and here I m earning half of what I used to earn back at home. But I love Thailand.

As far as pascal is concerned, if I remember correctly that my last program in pascal was in 1992.

I dont understand why a professional teacher needs the lesson plan as well. In my career, many times I made my own lesson plans, course outline and even suggested the textbooks as well.

I have taught in 2 countries in this region and I found Thailand better than the other country.

Anyway, cheerz for u.... ur post is worth reading

[RDN]

This is slightly off topic, but I want to make a point here too.

Whilst reading these posts, I have become so annoyed, then ashamed at the quality of English here.

Even those large posts with the big words sound impressive, but there are mistakes there too.

No wonder English is dying; the native speakers cannot even write it correctly.

I urge every one of you to go back and read your posts.

It is embarrassing, both for the language and for yourselves.

This is directed at the people who's natural language IS English and even more so for the people that call themselves teachers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couldn't have put it better myself. Shame on some - not all - of you "native English speakers". Double shame if you're actually English "teachers".

Please read your posts before hitting the "Add Reply" button and make corrections as necessary. In some of the earlier posts I could hardly understand the point that the writer was trying to make.

[ajarnmark]

**post edited... if you have something to say don't do it all in caps**

I AM AN ENGINEER AND NOT TEACHING ENGLISH.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its not his fault..... apparanetly he is from India.......

[sriracha john]

Posts: 1

Joined: 2003-07-11

Look forward to your next post in 2 years time...

[erikr_]

The funny thing is the Thailand is caught between  a rock and hardplace.  The fact is they need English speaking people to teach their young however they make it so hard for people to come to the Kingdom.

Not just for teachers, I.T, Sales, ETC...  The simple fact they say how much they someone has to be paid based place of origin is crazy.  I am from the US and they say I need 60 per month.. Well I lived there for 11 months on less than 40k No Problem.

Simple standard for teachers is a state run Class and test though an respectable origination. (yeah yeah if it can be found.)  Say 4 week of basic English to Thai teaching and curriculum, that also has basic Thai and how to live in the Kingdom. Make it expensive enough and strict standards to week out the bad apples.

Then biased on their test scores tell what level of English they can teach.

Also putting a rule of English must be the native Language of the teacher. (exceptions can be made) This would weed out all the white folks that can speak a little English.

Just ideas I know this will never come to reality  so I am just typing I know...

rk

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry? I know people from the so called native language countries that have such an accent that they should be forbidden to teach english conversation. I know many people here in the Netherlands with better comprehension of the language.

I just got of the phone with someone from Northern Ireland, I would not want my kid to learn english from him.

I think the idea of checking levels and a course a good idea, but if they want teachers you have to make sure that it is not highly priced. The salary in Thailand is not high enough to justify that.

So they want real teachers? Raise the earnings, improve the conditions and security.

[erikr_]

This is slightly off topic, but I want to make a point here too.

Whilst reading these posts, I have become so annoyed, then ashamed at the quality of English here.

Even those large posts with the big words sound impressive, but there are mistakes there too.

No wonder English is dying; the native speakers cannot even write it correctly.

I urge every one of you to go back and read your posts.

It is embarrassing, both for the language and for yourselves.

This is directed at the people who's natural language IS English and even more so for the people that call themselves teachers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I allways learned that it is either can not or can't? Since when they changed it to cannot?

What you seem to forget is that most people on a forum do type rather quick as it is not an official document and therefor do not concern to much about spelling and grammar.

And no I am not a native speaker