Thai Probe Says Army Did Not Kill Japan Cameraman

[anterian]

Muramoto took a single bullet in his left chest, which severed his heart and went out the back.

So which way was he facing, chest towards the army forces, or the Red protesters?

In other words the bullet was not recovered.

As several have clearly pointed out it is not possible to definitively say what type of bullet round caused a wound, also I can tell you from my own experiences many soldiers modify their ammo.

As for Porntip, I have followed her career for many years, she has made many impulsive, irrational mistakes, starting with a botched enquiry into a leakage of radioactive material. She is pro government, pro PAD.

[rubl]

Muramoto took a single bullet in his left chest, which severed his heart and went out the back.

So which way was he facing, chest towards the army forces, or the Red protesters?

In other words the bullet was not recovered.

As several have clearly pointed out it is not possible to definitively say what type of bullet round caused a wound, also I can tell you from my own experiences many soldiers modify their ammo.

As for Porntip, I have followed her career for many years, she has made many impulsive, irrational mistakes, starting with a botched enquiry into a leakage of radioactive material. She is pro government, pro PAD.

Nice post, could agree with it. Unfortunately the last sentence diminishes the value of all the rest. Heaps of people were pro-government, pro UDD, only a few years ago as well. Totally irrelevant though.

[YoghurtLX]

Muramoto took a single bullet in his left chest, which severed his heart and went out the back.

Shouldn't an M-16 do exactly not that ?

M-16 bullets tumble and shouldn't make it out of the body to cause more damage.

So which way was he facing, chest towards the army forces, or the Red protesters?

Does it matter where he was facing ?

There where clearly shoots fired from the roofs, you can see a car that shows bullets hit straight from above the hood and windows in some videos. Not to mention many people did mention that someone shoots from the roofs.

Soldiers also been shot, far behind that line where the fighting took place.

My conclusion was always that this was an ambush, crowd in front and shooters placed on roofs in the back and side.

As several have clearly pointed out it is not possible to definitively say what type of bullet round caused a wound, also I can tell you from my own experiences many soldiers modify their ammo.

Modifying the ammo of an M-16 doesn't make the characteristics of a bullet completely disappear or behave different in the flight path.

I was in military too and we NEVER did modify bullets. Bullets mostly are handed out when needed and they don't stay with the soldier until he may need them.

The modified bullet theory is very unlikely.

[jlfh33]

A 7.62mm caliber for Ak 47 is a assault weapon but range is limited to 300 meter (almost same as M16 5.62mm caliber range) and target is not so accurate. But if you put it on a sniper rifle it can go as far as 1000 meter, don't you all think it is little fishy to say it is report he was killed by a AK 47 rifle?

[TAWP]

As for Porntip, I have followed her career for many years, she has made many impulsive, irrational mistakes, starting with a botched enquiry into a leakage of radioactive material. She is pro government, pro PAD.

Thank you for pointing out just how red supporters see her and why it is so important to attack her.

[zthyadat]

So 12 'high profile' (whatever that is supposed to mean) doctors say that a M16 was the weapon that fired the fatal bullet while 'a respected doctor' says it was an AK47 - and his opinion was based on looking at photographs! No credibility problem there then - well no more than a lot.

My mind would be comforted if Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunand M.D. had been involved in the investigation process. This formidable lady lives by a mantra of 'the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth'. In spite of not being part of the Establishment she has risen to the top of her tree and few, apart from the Police, would question her credibility.

For those not familiar with this ladies career, the following are extracts from Wikipedia.

Pornthip is presently Director of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, Ministry of Justice, in Bangkok. During the Thaksin Shinawatra government, she repeatedly publicly accused the police of abuses.[2] During Thaksin's anti-drug campaign in early 2003, during which more than 2,500 people were killed in what most non-government observers cited as extrajudicial killings, Pornthip claimed that some of these deaths were caused by police.[3] Other sources claim that some of the killings were carried out to silence those who knew which police officials were involved in the drug trade.

n the aftermath of the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake, Pornthip took charge of the effort to identify victims of the tsunami in the Phang Nga region.[7] She and her team were widely praised for their hard work and dedication,[citation needed] but on January 13, 2005 Police General Nopadol Somboonsab complained that the police's identification centre in Phuket should have charge of all identification operations. Pornthip attributed the intervention to Nopadol's supposed personal vendetta against her.[8] Nopadol was ultimately successful, and the Phang Nga operation was closed down on February 3, 2005.[9

She also justified the purchase and use of the gt2000 bomb/drug/explosive/troll/ogre/druid/harrypotter detectors..........Thereby ensuring her credibility.

Yes, unfortunately, whether she liked it or not, she has had to take sides to survive - and that means bodily as well as professionally. Khunyings tend to end up on the military side, oddly enough.

It is interesting to note that in the course of supporting the GT2000 (which I think she initially did in innocence or gullibility), she trusted it as providing evidence in the death of a young yellow shirt protester (I believe that it was a case of "sophisticated equipment" proving she wasn't carrying a bomb). After the revelation that the GT2000 was a scam, that case and several others should have been reviewed from square one. After years of building up credibility in the face of a corrupt police force, she undermined it all in one stroke. A woman of science believing in divining rods....

[TAWP]

A 7.62mm caliber for Ak 47 is a assault weapon but range is limited to 300 meter (almost same as M16 5.62mm caliber range) and target is not so accurate. But if you put it on a sniper rifle it can go as far as 1000 meter, don't you all think it is little fishy to say it is report he was killed by a AK 47 rifle?

The AK47 fires a 7.62x39mm, not a 7.62x51mm NATO; .308 Winchester in civilian form, or just 7.62 for short. That is the caliber used by G3 and other rifles. The AK47 can not fire this longer bullet.

The 7.62x39 has a longer effective range than the M16's 5.56x45mm NATO/.223 and a very different wound-pattern. But no, never ever will the 7.62x39 be fired at target at 1000m, even if you use it in a bolt-action with a really good scope.

But distances is all moot, as most distances in urban warfare is under 200m.

[chachachacha]

How sad that people on here are trying to defend murder. I suppose the same it's not the PM or the armies fault mob will also defend Gaddaffi .After all it cannot be his or his armies fault that all those people are getting killed . It is the peoples fault because they should not be there to get killed .

[jayboy]

As for Porntip, I have followed her career for many years, she has made many impulsive, irrational mistakes, starting with a botched enquiry into a leakage of radioactive material. She is pro government, pro PAD.

Thank you for pointing out just how red supporters see her and why it is so important to attack her.

One could equally mention how yellow supporters see her and why it is so important to defend her.But that would be missing the point.

[jdinasia]

How sad that people on here are trying to defend murder. I suppose the same it's not the PM or the armies fault mob will also defend Gaddaffi .After all it cannot be his or his armies fault that all those people are getting killed . It is the peoples fault because they should not be there to get killed .

You seem to be reading things that have not been written. I don't think anyone has stated that the army didn't kill anybody at all. People are saying that there were armed men on both sides and that in many cases who did the killing will never be known. The evidence presented today would indicate that the army probably did not kill this particular reporter. You may choose to give that evidence whatever level of credence you think it should have.

Using stuff from the past, as some people are doing, doesn't make sense. What happened in the past is not necessarily what happened this time, so saying the army has covered up past abuses is irrelevant. The question here is what happened in this particular death. There is footage of Sae Daeng's ronin armed with AK's from that night. I assume that the Japanese have been kept apprised of the progress of the case, and would not be surprised if they were present at the autopsy. I assume we will know soon what they think.

[TAWP]

As for Porntip, I have followed her career for many years, she has made many impulsive, irrational mistakes, starting with a botched enquiry into a leakage of radioactive material. She is pro government, pro PAD.

Thank you for pointing out just how red supporters see her and why it is so important to attack her.

One could equally mention how yellow supporters see her and why it is so important to defend her.But that would be missing the point.

You fail again - most people here are not yellow supporters. Most don't even say whether they believe the journalist was shot by the army or demonstrators...unless they are red and 100% believe the army did it, even if they have no proof.

I am merely pointing out that the attacks about her 'destroyed' credibility is ridiculous. It is a typical ad hominid as it really doesn't really matter, it has no bearing on this case. Unless for a red supporter...

[chachachacha]

How sad that people on here are trying to defend murder. I suppose the same it's not the PM or the armies fault mob will also defend Gaddaffi .After all it cannot be his or his armies fault that all those people are getting killed . It is the peoples fault because they should not be there to get killed .

You seem to be reading things that have not been written. I don't think anyone has stated that the army didn't kill anybody at all. People are saying that there were armed men on both sides and that in many cases who did the killing will never be known. The evidence presented today would indicate that the army probably did not kill this particular reporter. You may choose to give that evidence whatever level of credence you think it should have.

Using stuff from the past, as some people are doing, doesn't make sense. What happened in the past is not necessarily what happened this time, so saying the army has covered up past abuses is irrelevant. The question here is what happened in this particular death. There is footage of Sae Daeng's ronin armed with AK's from that night. I assume that the Japanese have been kept apprised of the progress of the case, and would not be surprised if they were present at the autopsy. I assume we will know soon what they think.

Yes & I am sure that when Gaddaffi's police investigate the killing they will find that the people where to blame because they should not of been there . Are people on here that nieve as to believe the crap that is coming out ?

Edited February 28, 2011 by chachachacha

[jdinasia]

You seem to be reading things that have not been written. I don't think anyone has stated that the army didn't kill anybody at all. People are saying that there were armed men on both sides and that in many cases who did the killing will never be known. The evidence presented today would indicate that the army probably did not kill this particular reporter. You may choose to give that evidence whatever level of credence you think it should have.

Using stuff from the past, as some people are doing, doesn't make sense. What happened in the past is not necessarily what happened this time, so saying the army has covered up past abuses is irrelevant. The question here is what happened in this particular death. There is footage of Sae Daeng's ronin armed with AK's from that night. I assume that the Japanese have been kept apprised of the progress of the case, and would not be surprised if they were present at the autopsy. I assume we will know soon what they think.

Yes & I am sure that when Gaddaffi's police investigate the killing they will find that the people where to blame because they should not of been there . Are people on here that nieve as to believe the crap that is coming out ?

Completely skipping over what was said and comparing apples to pomegranates.

I am not naive at all, nor am I much of a conspiracy theorist. We are talking about ONE case here and that case, due to it involving a foreign national, will certainly be reviewed by people external to the Thai investigation (if it was not concurrently with the Thai investigation.)

As for people defending murder, I don't think that is happening. What does appear to be happening is that people are not agreeing with you.

[anterian]

Muramoto took a single bullet in his left chest, which severed his heart and went out the back.

So which way was he facing, chest towards the army forces, or the Red protesters?

In other words the bullet was not recovered.

As several have clearly pointed out it is not possible to definitively say what type of bullet round caused a wound, also I can tell you from my own experiences many soldiers modify their ammo.

As for Porntip, I have followed her career for many years, she has made many impulsive, irrational mistakes, starting with a botched enquiry into a leakage of radioactive material. She is pro government, pro PAD.

Nice post, could agree with it. Unfortunately the last sentence diminishes the value of all the rest. Heaps of people were pro-government, pro UDD, only a few years ago as well. Totally irrelevant though.

The relevance of my comment about Thorntip is that she is passionately Anti Thaksin or any who support him.

the reasons are nothing to do with politics, Thaksin was still in the police at the time. If you need more details do a search on missing hospital cobalt "bomb". Several people died because of her forensic "capability" and Thaksin removed her.

If you understand the Thai character you will know they carry a grudge to the grave. I would trust her in most forensic examinations that did not involve physics, but I would never trust her conclusions in any politically sensitive area.

[rubl]

Muramoto took a single bullet in his left chest, which severed his heart and went out the back.

So which way was he facing, chest towards the army forces, or the Red protesters?

In other words the bullet was not recovered.

As several have clearly pointed out it is not possible to definitively say what type of bullet round caused a wound, also I can tell you from my own experiences many soldiers modify their ammo.

As for Porntip, I have followed her career for many years, she has made many impulsive, irrational mistakes, starting with a botched enquiry into a leakage of radioactive material. She is pro government, pro PAD.

Nice post, could agree with it. Unfortunately the last sentence diminishes the value of all the rest. Heaps of people were pro-government, pro UDD, only a few years ago as well. Totally irrelevant though.

The relevance of my comment about Thorntip is that she is passionately Anti Thaksin or any who support him.

the reasons are nothing to do with politics, Thaksin was still in the police at the time. If you need more details do a search on missing hospital cobalt "bomb". Several people died because of her forensic "capability" and Thaksin removed her.

If you understand the Thai character you will know they carry a grudge to the grave. I would trust her in most forensic examinations that did not involve physics, but I would never trust her conclusions in any politically sensitive area.

When you complain about Dr. Pornthip and end with "she's pro-government, pro PAD", you suggest that the last explains it all. In an OP bound to get reactions from pro and anti government, pro UDD and pro PAD any suggestion like you give I can only see as such and therefore it diminishes the value of whatever else was written in that post.

PS not knowing forensics first hand I still think physics is involved in interpreting autopsy results.

[webfact]

Released Red-shirt Leaders Warned to Honor Bail Conditions

The Department of Special Investigation warns the recently-released red-shirt leaders against violating their bail conditions.

It also unveils results in the investigation into a Japanese journalist's death during the red-shirt rally last year.

Department of Special Investigation, or DSI, Director General Tharit Pengdit and gunshot wound and ammunition expert Police Lieutenant General Amporn Charuchinda held a press conference on the autopsy results of Reuters' Japanese journalist and 13 other individuals which witnesses said were shot by law-enforcement officers.

Amporn said the entrance wound of the bullet that killed the Japanese national measured 7.62 millimeters while the exit would was almost the same size.

The bullet entered through the left side of his chest, exiting via his right shoulder, and there were no fragments of the bullet in his body.

He believes the bullet was from an AK-47 as a weapon of smaller caliber would leave fragments of the bullet in the body.

Also noteworthy was the fact that the Japanese national's bullet wound is larger than those on other bodies.

Tharit said the police will have to continue their investigation as a witness has testified that the journalist was hit from bullets fired from the line of law-enforcement officers.

However, Tharit said it must not be ruled out that someone could be standing behind the law-enforcement officers, firing shots.

He added that he has been cooperating with the Japanese Embassy in updating the progress of the investigation and the embassy has never put pressure on the DSI about this case.

The DSI director general went on to warn the recently released red-shirt leaders against violating their bail conditions of not inciting chaos and not leaving the country as he said their presence on the red-shirt stage on March 12 may be considered a violation of their bail, particularly with the Internal Security Act invoked.

He said his department will monitor the red-shirt rally and will file a suit with the court to revoke bail if it is deemed that the leaders violate their bail conditions.

Tharit also clarified progress about anti-monarchy cases after criticism from MPs in Parliament on February 24 about the delay in the case.

He said the DSI has been collecting information from the internet, financial transactions and telephone records to make sure the suspects really committed wrongdoing, but since the cases are sensitive, the DSI cannot unveil progress on them to the public.

The DSI has found probable cause for 17 of those cases and arrest warrants have already been issued for five suspects.

It is collecting evidence to seek additional arrest warrants for at least 30 suspects.

-- Tan Network 2011-02-28

[Wombat6]

Doctors can only speculate as to what type of rifle fired a bullet that hit a body. And forensics can speculate on angle of entry/exit wounds and the victims position if the scene is not a static crime scene afterwards. This was not the case in this riot zone. No one without actual video footage of the actual shooting can determine definitively where it came from...........

An AK-47 is a 7.62 mm Calibre Rifle and an M16 rifle is 5.56mm calibre.......I should think that any qualified Forensics expert would be able to identify from the entry wound which calibre made the entry

[anterian]

Muramoto took a single bullet in his left chest, which severed his heart and went out the back.

So which way was he facing, chest towards the army forces, or the Red protesters?

In other words the bullet was not recovered.

As several have clearly pointed out it is not possible to definitively say what type of bullet round caused a wound, also I can tell you from my own experiences many soldiers modify their ammo.

As for Porntip, I have followed her career for many years, she has made many impulsive, irrational mistakes, starting with a botched enquiry into a leakage of radioactive material. She is pro government, pro PAD.

Nice post, could agree with it. Unfortunately the last sentence diminishes the value of all the rest. Heaps of people were pro-government, pro UDD, only a few years ago as well. Totally irrelevant though.

The relevance of my comment about Thorntip is that she is passionately Anti Thaksin or any who support him.

the reasons are nothing to do with politics, Thaksin was still in the police at the time. If you need more details do a search on missing hospital cobalt "bomb". Several people died because of her forensic "capability" and Thaksin removed her.

If you understand the Thai character you will know they carry a grudge to the grave. I would trust her in most forensic examinations that did not involve physics, but I would never trust her conclusions in any politically sensitive area.

When you complain about Dr. Pornthip and end with "she's pro-government, pro PAD", you suggest that the last explains it all. In an OP bound to get reactions from pro and anti government, pro UDD and pro PAD any suggestion like you give I can only see as such and therefore it diminishes the value of whatever else was written in that post.

PS not knowing forensics first hand I still think physics is involved in interpreting autopsy results.

My first comment was brief because I did not think the reasons were relevant to this thread. However, I explained my reasons in my follow up comment. I took an interest in Pornthip because I am also a scientist (howbeit many years retired).

My area was physics and medical research, I have been used as a consultant by the Police and the Home Office.

My daughter is an entomologist, an increasingly important aspect of forensic science, my niece is a pathologist, so I keep fairly abreast of developments. Physics, ballistics, the laws of motion, elasticity, stress and deformation, chemistry, residues, poisons, DNA etc are all part of forensic science. Forensics is a team effort, it covers many disciplines, no single person can be an expert at all.

Edit. Incidentally Reuters and the BBC are not impressed by the latest "finding".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12593729

Edited February 28, 2011 by anterian

[Buchholz]

An obvious question to ask, is was there any evidence that the reds had AK47s during the end of the Rajprasong mess? We know there were snipers around from both sides, but is there any video or picture evidence of AK47s being used? Anyone find a pic anywhere?

When Red Shirt Surachai was arrested (and he was amongst others caught over time with various weapons caches), he had four AK-47 rifles, two M-79 grenade launchers, and 37 grenades.

A photo of the arsenal and am article of it are in the other paper from July 20, 2010

A quotable article and quotable photo of him follows:

Phnom Penh has also recently handed over two red-shirt protesters, believed to have been involved in a bombing outside the Bhum Jai Thai Party headquarters.

In addition to Arisman, the Red Shirt Bomber Couple deported from Cambodia, Warisriya Boonsom (left) and Kobchai Boonplod (right), said that other Red Shirt fugitives such as Chulalongkorn Hospital Raiding Party Leader Payap Panket and Notorious Love Chiang Mai 51 Gang Leader Kanyapak Maneejak were in Cambodia.

Still more others referring to Arisman being in Cambodia:

Surachai Thewarat, a suspected red-shirt militant and a close aide to the deceased red-shirt Major-General Khattiya Sawasdipol, told the Thai press that he had met with Arisman in Cambodia and insisted that the red-shirt leader is still hiding out there.

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/tan/ViewData.aspx?DataID=1032432

Terror suspect Surachai Thewarat

[chachachacha]

You seem to be reading things that have not been written. I don't think anyone has stated that the army didn't kill anybody at all. People are saying that there were armed men on both sides and that in many cases who did the killing will never be known. The evidence presented today would indicate that the army probably did not kill this particular reporter. You may choose to give that evidence whatever level of credence you think it should have.

Using stuff from the past, as some people are doing, doesn't make sense. What happened in the past is not necessarily what happened this time, so saying the army has covered up past abuses is irrelevant. The question here is what happened in this particular death. There is footage of Sae Daeng's ronin armed with AK's from that night. I assume that the Japanese have been kept apprised of the progress of the case, and would not be surprised if they were present at the autopsy. I assume we will know soon what they think.

Yes & I am sure that when Gaddaffi's police investigate the killing they will find that the people where to blame because they should not of been there . Are people on here that nieve as to believe the crap that is coming out ?

Completely skipping over what was said and comparing apples to pomegranates.

I am not naive at all, nor am I much of a conspiracy theorist. We are talking about ONE case here and that case, due to it involving a foreign national, will certainly be reviewed by people external to the Thai investigation (if it was not concurrently with the Thai investigation.)

As for people defending murder, I don't think that is happening. What does appear to be happening is that people are not agreeing with you.

How do you figure the army was responsible. They may of fired the shot but they were not responsible for him being in a war zone or for creating the situation with the illegal seizure of the area.

From post 26 , Trying to justify murder with the HE SHOULD NOT OF BEEN THERE sad sad sad

So not skipping over (as you put it)

[jdinasia]

ChaCha --- that seems to be out of context of the totality of the post you are quoting from. The emphasis in that post is that the reds started the violence and thus are responsible for the results.

btw -- I disagree with the statement you quoted (not necessarily with the intent of the post you are quoting from.) This thread states that the weapon used to kill the reporter was NOT fired by the army. The follow-up from the news explains why there was a change in the preliminary findings (which were based upon an eye-witness, whose statement did not actually cast the blame on the army.)

[chachachacha]

ChaCha --- that seems to be out of context of the totality of the post you are quoting from. The emphasis in that post is that the reds started the violence and thus are responsible for the results.

btw -- I disagree with the statement you quoted (not necessarily with the intent of the post you are quoting from.) This thread states that the weapon used to kill the reporter was NOT fired by the army. The follow-up from the news explains why there was a change in the preliminary findings (which were based upon an eye-witness, whose statement did not actually cast the blame on the army.)

So given that logic you would or are suporting Gaddaffi on the grounds that it is the people that started it not the army . I am sure Gaddaffi & the powers that be will say that the arrny there has not killed anybody. Eye witness suddenly dear me

[TPI]

I am sure an amateur forensic scientist learns the difference between wounds caused by an AK 47 round and and M 16 round.

I am no ballistics expert, but a complete amateur should be able to tell the difference.

You don't have to be a ballistics expert to know that a M16 fires a .556mm (.223) projectile and a AK47 shoots a 7.62mm (.308) projectile. Usually the entrance and exit wounds with a .223 are vastly different from a .308, while both are full metal jacket the speed of the .223 (3200ft/sec) causes the projectile to fragment and spin inside the body whereas the .308 tends to make a clean hole.

An AK47 is only accurate over relativly short distances as is the M16, an FN rifle now (as issued to army snipers etc) is the same calibre as an AK47 but is much more powerful and has deadly accuracy over a far greater distance.

The Army should show courage, admit they did the shooting but plead that in all of the firing it would be impossible to identify individual shooters! The fact that the Canadian reporter can identify his shooter is beside the point of course??

[jdinasia]

ChaCha --- that seems to be out of context of the totality of the post you are quoting from. The emphasis in that post is that the reds started the violence and thus are responsible for the results.

btw -- I disagree with the statement you quoted (not necessarily with the intent of the post you are quoting from.) This thread states that the weapon used to kill the reporter was NOT fired by the army. The follow-up from the news explains why there was a change in the preliminary findings (which were based upon an eye-witness, whose statement did not actually cast the blame on the army.)

So given that logic you would or are suporting Gaddaffi on the grounds that it is the people that started it not the army . I am sure Gaddaffi & the powers that be will say that the arrny there has not killed anybody. Eye witness suddenly dear me

Nope --- again apples and pomegranates. I would however state that ANY journalist that puts himself in a conflict situation is taking a risk, and should be fully aware of that risk at the get-go.

[chachachacha]

ChaCha --- that seems to be out of context of the totality of the post you are quoting from. The emphasis in that post is that the reds started the violence and thus are responsible for the results.

btw -- I disagree with the statement you quoted (not necessarily with the intent of the post you are quoting from.) This thread states that the weapon used to kill the reporter was NOT fired by the army. The follow-up from the news explains why there was a change in the preliminary findings (which were based upon an eye-witness, whose statement did not actually cast the blame on the army.)

So given that logic you would or are suporting Gaddaffi on the grounds that it is the people that started it not the army . I am sure Gaddaffi & the powers that be will say that the arrny there has not killed anybody. Eye witness suddenly dear me

Nope --- again apples and pomegranates. I would however state that ANY journalist that puts himself in a conflict situation is taking a risk, and should be fully aware of that risk at the get-go.

Journalist do put themselves at risk but does that mean that they are fair game ? It seems that you won't afford Gaddaffi & his lot the same comforts that you are willing to give the Thai regime . Thai people demo army kill them . Libian people demo army kill them, Irainian people demo army kill them , China people demo army kill them. Burma people demo army kill them . Please tell why you believe the Thai junta but not the others . All the others have said they didn't do the killing.

[gemini81]

Of course it is a cover up, of course the army were responsible for the deaths of many unarmed people that day, people not posing an immediate threat were shot and killed by the army, only a fool would try and argue otherwise.

I

How many unarmed were killed that day many means more than one.

Only a fool would refuse to look at the evidence.

The evidence is surely going to be very suspicious coming this late.

How do you figure the army was responsible. They may of fired the shot but they were not responsible for him being in a war zone or for creating the situation with the illegal seizure of the area.

When if ever will the red shirts take responsibility for there actions.

Explain if you can why the army was there if there was nothing wrong. Yes I know because the police could not do there job. But why would the police have been there if they could have done there job?

You can babble on about the injustice of it all and the mishandling of the poor armed peaceful demonstrators. But ask yourself if they were in your back yard refusing to move turning it into a garbage dump and urging people to burn it down if you didn't give them what they wanted would you say that was OK.

You might want to take another look at where the responsibility for the whole mess really is.

I will give you a clue. There was a lot of money paid by a citizen of several other countries.

a war zone???? utter claptrap, for a war you need two armies, next you will suggest the IRA are a legitimate military organization and Northern Ireland was a war.

this was was it was, it was a slaughter, and many of the people that died did so at the hands of the Thai army whilst the person was unarmed and not posing any immediate threat (I have no doubt some reds were armed (with firearms) and deserved everything they got, but to suggest that everyone killed by the army was armed and posing an immediate threat is just pure <deleted>, you know it, I know it, however your hatred of all things red won't allow you to say it.

NOT a war zone? All you have to do is watch the video footage on youtube, since you were apparently far removed from it. The reds instigated the violence. I am sure you can't give an example of a more tolerant army anywhere.

The only one who sounds hateful and bitter on this post, is you my friend.

[transam]

ChaCha --- that seems to be out of context of the totality of the post you are quoting from. The emphasis in that post is that the reds started the violence and thus are responsible for the results.

btw -- I disagree with the statement you quoted (not necessarily with the intent of the post you are quoting from.) This thread states that the weapon used to kill the reporter was NOT fired by the army. The follow-up from the news explains why there was a change in the preliminary findings (which were based upon an eye-witness, whose statement did not actually cast the blame on the army.)

So given that logic you would or are suporting Gaddaffi on the grounds that it is the people that started it not the army . I am sure Gaddaffi & the powers that be will say that the arrny there has not killed anybody. Eye witness suddenly dear me

Nope --- again apples and pomegranates. I would however state that ANY journalist that puts himself in a conflict situation is taking a risk, and should be fully aware of that risk at the get-go.

Journalist do put themselves at risk but does that mean that they are fair game ? It seems that you won't afford Gaddaffi & his lot the same comforts that you are willing to give the Thai regime . Thai people demo army kill them . Libian people demo army kill them, Irainian people demo army kill them , China people demo army kill them. Burma people demo army kill them . Please tell why you believe the Thai junta but not the others . All the others have said they didn't do the killing.

Tell me, how many warnings did the red shirts,with their AK47 back up, given to go home before enough was enough. ?

Where enough was enough when Thai soldiers were shot at.

[jdinasia]

Journalist do put themselves at risk but does that mean that they are fair game ? It seems that you won't afford Gaddaffi & his lot the same comforts that you are willing to give the Thai regime . Thai people demo army kill them . Libian people demo army kill them, Irainian people demo army kill them , China people demo army kill them. Burma people demo army kill them . Please tell why you believe the Thai junta but not the others . All the others have said they didn't do the killing.

1) I never once said they were "fair game"

2) Libya has nothing to do with this thread.

3)Thailand is not operating under a Junta.

Put the blame where it belongs --- the people that escalated the violence on April 9th were the red shirts. Read the news reports in this thread to see how the report was generated. BTW --- in refutation of your examples (which are NOT pertinent) did the people in the other countries you are mentioning have people operating with impunity (Sae Daeng's Ronin) within their ranks?

[chachachacha]

Journalist do put themselves at risk but does that mean that they are fair game ? It seems that you won't afford Gaddaffi & his lot the same comforts that you are willing to give the Thai regime . Thai people demo army kill them . Libian people demo army kill them, Irainian people demo army kill them , China people demo army kill them. Burma people demo army kill them . Please tell why you believe the Thai junta but not the others . All the others have said they didn't do the killing.

1) I never once said they were "fair game"

2) Libya has nothing to do with this thread.

3)Thailand is not operating under a Junta.

Put the blame where it belongs --- the people that escalated the violence on April 9th were the red shirts. Read the news reports in this thread to see how the report was generated. BTW --- in refutation of your examples (which are NOT pertinent) did the people in the other countries you are mentioning have people operating with impunity (Sae Daeng's Ronin) within their ranks?

Double standards perhaps. I thought you said that you was not nieve ,do you really believe the the military are not pulling the strings here .

I would say the escalation started when a Army General was assinated on the stage of the red shirts.

Of course you will claim that it wasn't the army that did it . Dear me ,

[TAWP]

I would say the escalation started when a Army General was assinated on the stage of the red shirts.

Of course you will claim that it wasn't the army that did it . Dear me ,

Thank you for highlighting how badly informed you are about the events. (Sae Daeng was shoot towards the final act of the violence, not before it escalated. Most likely he was taken out in direct response to the level of problems he and his men caused -- even possibly by those that he was rallying against in the own team for being 'too soft' and 'traitors'.)