Volunteer Farang Police

[HeavyDrinker]

The bottom line for me is that they are not fully trained in law enforcement or even dealing with members of the public. The training they receive seems minimal at best.

Dress them up any way you like but I don't like the idea of my potential safety and that of my loved ones in the hands of people untrained in such matters. Were there a major incident I doubt they would have the skills to cope or even be of any value to the police themselves.

I don't buy this 'I want to give something back' BS either. If you want to 'give something back' (to a country most have probably given more than enough to already) then why not organise impromptu neighbourhood litter clean ups, go teach English for free or similar?

Whatever next? Volunteer surgeons to assist local doctors in operations? Volunteer taxi drivers to ease the burden on the local drivers....?

[ukfriend]

I have to agree i've never quite thought of it in them terms but it makes sense, to put the cat amongst the pigeons, do people volunteer as doctors, lawyers, teachers, driven instructors etc, not so easy as just the logistical and legal side instantly raises issues,

The bottom line for me is that they are not fully trained in law enforcement or even dealing with members of the public. The training they receive seems minimal at best.

Dress them up any way you like but I don't like the idea of my potential safety and that of my loved ones in the hands of people untrained in such matters. Were there a major incident I doubt they would have the skills to cope or even be of any value to the police themselves.

I don't buy this 'I want to give something back' BS either. If you want to 'give something back' (to a country most have probably given more than enough to already) then why not organise impromptu neighbourhood litter clean ups, go teach English for free or similar?

Whatever next? Volunteer surgeons to assist local doctors in operations? Volunteer taxi drivers to ease the burden on the local drivers....?

[BangTaoBoy]

The bottom line for me is that they are not fully trained in law enforcement or even dealing with members of the public. The training they receive seems minimal at best.

Dress them up any way you like but I don't like the idea of my potential safety and that of my loved ones in the hands of people untrained in such matters. Were there a major incident I doubt they would have the skills to cope or even be of any value to the police themselves.

I don't buy this 'I want to give something back' BS either. If you want to 'give something back' (to a country most have probably given more than enough to already) then why not organise impromptu neighbourhood litter clean ups, go teach English for free or similar?

Whatever next? Volunteer surgeons to assist local doctors in operations? Volunteer taxi drivers to ease the burden on the local drivers....?

Don't agree that they could do more harm than good. Can't see how that could possibly be the case.

Do agree however, that if they truly wanted to do good in the community, there would be 100 better ways to do it. Ways, that don't involve public attention, uniforms, and a smidgen of power. But I guess that's why those things don't appeal as much.

What's the old addage, about there being no such thing as a selfless act. I would be more inclined to believe it of police volunteers, than people picking up litter, or teaching kids for free!

[terak69]

Don't agree that they could do more harm than good. Can't see how that could possibly be the case.

Do agree however, that if they truly wanted to do good in the community, there would be 100 better ways to do it. Ways, that don't involve public attention, uniforms, and a smidgen of power. But I guess that's why those things don't appeal as much.

What's the old addage, about there being no such thing as a selfless act. I would be more inclined to believe it of police volunteers, than people picking up litter, or teaching kids for free!

All comments are all well & good, but it would appear some voluntary work requires work permits & it would appear that some not. There was a bloke cleaning toilets and got into trouble so that may eliminate picking up litter. Schooling I not know, but it would appear that the policing jobs do not need WP's.

[ukfriend]

A valid point, as i understand it, anything that does not receive payment is not classed as work so doesn't need a work permit, ah before anyone says it, what about the home owner doing his own maintenance and was fined and i even think deported, as far as i know the only voluntary job that falls under the work permit radar is the police. so beware if your banging a nail in at your own home, it's classed as work

[petercallen]

Name a few things you can do here if you cannot speak excellent Thai even working for nothing and supplying your own gear without a work permit, and why you should need a work permit for voluntary work.

I help Thai neighbors to learn english.

There are doctors, nurses, social workers etc who work for nothing in third world countries. Thailand is not a third world country, i am not so sure about some of the farangs living here.

[terak69]

A valid point, as i understand it, anything that does not receive payment is not classed as work so doesn't need a work permit, ah before anyone says it, what about the home owner doing his own maintenance and was fined and i even think deported, as far as i know the only voluntary job that falls under the work permit radar is the police. so beware if your banging a nail in at your own home, it's classed as work

Maintenance should be OK in own house as per link fro PG - If you do work unpaid for someone else you still need WP !!! Only ones that seem to not need are police areas as discussed

http://www.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1038

Mabey maintenance man was working on someone else's house or had more sinister agenda's

[terak69]

Name a few things you can do here if you cannot speak excellent Thai even working for nothing and

supplying your own gear without a work permit, and why you should need a work permit for voluntary work.

I help Thai neighbors to learn english.

There are doctors, nurses, social workers etc who work for nothing in third world countries.

Thailand is not a third world country, i am not so sure about some of the farangs living here.

I agree with you but....................

Why do you need WP for voluntary work - cos the rules say you do !!!

Help Thai neighbours to speak english - Excellent community spirit, but technically you require WP - cos the rules say so !!!

Farangs & third world country - deffo

At the end of the day we have to remembet TiT and probably always will be

[HeavyDrinker]

Thailand is not a third world country, i am not so sure about some of the farangs living here

Yawn. Firstly you are incorrect. Thailand IS a third World country, and secondly please keep your personal insecurities out of what is an interesting thread.

Don't agree that they could do more harm than good. Can't see how that could possibly be the case

Well look at Hillsborough for an example of what can happen when even real coppers don't have to tools for the job.

Would you like to be caught up in a major incident with your family around you with only poorly trained 'officers' on hand?

I'm not having a pop at them here. I just think the whole thing was poorly thought out and poorly managed throughout. It's a nice idea on paper but that's where it should have stayed. In addition to that there are also now many cases of abuse of 'office' coming through as well which don't help the image of the scheme.

I'm sure that between the resident expatriate communities and the 'Powers that Be' we could indeed put our own skills at their disposal and pay something back into the community, sorting out WP hassles along the way of course....

[terak69]

Thailand is not a third world country, i am not so sure about some of the farangs living here

Yawn. Firstly you are incorrect. Thailand IS a third World country, and secondly please keep your personal insecurities out of what is an interesting thread.

Don't agree that they could do more harm than good. Can't see how that could possibly be the case

Well look at Hillsborough for an example of what can happen when even real coppers don't have to tools for the job.

Would you like to be caught up in a major incident with your family around you with only poorly trained 'officers' on hand?

I'm not having a pop at them here. I just think the whole thing was poorly thought out and poorly managed throughout. It's a nice idea on paper but that's where it should have stayed. In addition to that there are also now many cases of abuse of 'office' coming through as well which don't help the image of the scheme.

I'm sure that between the resident expatriate communities and the 'Powers that Be' we could indeed put our own skills at their disposal and pay something back into the community, sorting out WP hassles along the way of course....

According to the Nations Online Countries of the Third World, Thailand is not a third world family. According to its website, "The term 'Third World' was originally coined during the Cold War to distinguish those nations that are neither aligned with the West (NATO) nor with the East, the Communist bloc. Today the term is often used to describe the developing countries of Africa, Asia, Latin America and Oceania. Many poorer nations adopted the term to describe themselves

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2092994

Edited March 4, 2011 by terak69

[KarenBravo]

First world countries are westernized, fully developed countries economically.

Second world countries the USSR and it's satellite countries.

Third world were the rest.

Korea and Singapore were both colonized, but, they are not third world countries.

Since the Soviet Union's collapse, these terms are now obsolete.

Developed, or, developing is now the correct nomenclature.

Edited March 4, 2011 by KarenBravo

[BangTaoBoy]

Thailand is not a third world country, i am not so sure about some of the farangs living here

Yawn. Firstly you are incorrect. Thailand IS a third World country, and secondly please keep your personal insecurities out of what is an interesting thread.

Don't agree that they could do more harm than good. Can't see how that could possibly be the case

Well look at Hillsborough for an example of what can happen when even real coppers don't have to tools for the job.

Would you like to be caught up in a major incident with your family around you with only poorly trained 'officers' on hand?

I'm not having a pop at them here. I just think the whole thing was poorly thought out and poorly managed throughout. It's a nice idea on paper but that's where it should have stayed. In addition to that there are also now many cases of abuse of 'office' coming through as well which don't help the image of the scheme.

I'm sure that between the resident expatriate communities and the 'Powers that Be' we could indeed put our own skills at their disposal and pay something back into the community, sorting out WP hassles along the way of course....

I'm fairly sure Thailand is classed as a developing country, not third world?

What you are saying is different to what I said.

You are talking about replacing trained staff for un trained staff, which is obviously a recipe for dissaster.

I was talking about having aditional, less trained people, on top of what is already there. I can't think of one example they could make things worse.

What you're doing is saying an untrained person, won't deal with an emergency as well as a trained person, which is pretty obvious. The point is, if there was no trained people on site anyway, then it's their reaction compared to a non volunteer that needs to be compared. Comparing them to the profesionals who aren't there, isn't fair.

[stevenl]

A valid point, as i understand it, anything that does not receive payment is not classed as work so doesn't need a work permit

Paid or unpaid, work requires a work permit.

[KarenBravo]

Paid or unpaid, work requires a work permit.

True. One needs to look no further than the tsunami volunteers.

[terak69]

Paid or unpaid, work requires a work permit.

True. One needs to look no further than the tsunami volunteers.

I thought they gave out hundreds of volunteer visa's for Tsunami volunteers/workers. Then they didn't extend them when they (the volunteers) were not required any more ?

[HeavyDrinker]

Developing World is just a PC term for Third World which some organisations feel is a dated term.

Thailand certainly does tick all the recognised boxes for it to be a Third World Country.

Nations Online are not the best source of info when it comes to getting a balanced picture. Frankly, if it suits their agenda then a spade is a bucket.

However we are digressing and I'm off to the pub.

[KarenBravo]

After the tsunami, when most of the essential work was done, the government said the volunteers couldn't continue work without a work permit. These were mostly tourists and resident expats.

These were Westerners that were already IN the country at the time of the tsunami.

They gave out the visas you are talking about to professional organizations that were not in the country at the time, but, wanted to help ie. professional search and rescue teams and NGOs.

Edited March 4, 2011 by KarenBravo

[petercallen]

First world countries are westernized, fully developed countries economically.

Second world countries the USSR and it's satellite countries.

Third world were the rest.

Korea and Singapore were both colonized, but, they are not third world countries.

Since the Soviet Union's collapse, these terms are now obsolete.

Developed, or, developing is now the correct nomenclature.

What has westernized to do with first, second or third world countries.

How well is the economy of the country you were born in doing compared to Thailand's economy

I no its of topic but it does not take long for things to run of the rails in this forum

[KarenBravo]

KB blows raspberry.

[katabeachbum]

Hi KBB, regarding the highway police volunteers what powers do they have, is it just in a passive and help the traffic move on way or can they actually stop and ask to see licences or pull someone over for non helmet wearing, could they go as far as to inspect a vehicle for road worthiness, of coarse it would have to be a spluttering shed on wheels.again i can see this being a grey area and open to abuse by the vehicle owner not the volunteer police, i.e you know a certain vehicle shouldn't be on the road but you are powerless to in pound it. puts another slant on the issue

Tourist Police Volunteers, more foreigners than Thais, to assist and guide tourists/foreigners

Marine Police Volunteers, more Thais than foreigners

Highwaypolice Volunteers, more Thais than foreigners

Local Police Volunteers, not many around

Immigration Police Volunteers, foreigners assisting at Immigration offices

Different Police forces, different tasks.

I was a student at Big Bike Highwaypolice Volunteer class 5 in Phuket April 2010. Approx 160 students, 2/3 Thai nationals, 1/3 foreigners. The course was 2 days, and we recieved training on bike related road accident and how to behave, mostly in Thai. All class 5 students have ID HW5xxx.

We are to be supervised by a Thai national payed Police. This officer does not need to be present, but can give instructions on what to do while being in another place. We do not wear uniforms, but some of us wear orange Highwaypolice reflecting vests when marshalling, and most of our vehicles are marked Highwaypolice in English and Thai. When marshalling we direct all vehicles regardless of riders/drivers nationality.

We do not issue fines, but at an accident scene we can withold involved by taking their vehicle keys and ID. Tasks so far have been accident scenes and marshalling. On accident scene local Police have sometimes prefered me to take command, even they have arrived before me, if foreigner in accident probably due to language problems. Marshalling can take place with or without payed Thai Police present, and we stop all traffic we find needed

Among the 160 Police ID card holders from class 5, there seem to be a handfull of rotten apples. All Police ID cards are valid for one year only, and its left to see who will get to renew their Police ID this April. There are also some Highwaypolice pretenders around, flashing an ID card holder looking like a badge, but containing no Police ID card. These topics are being discussed on Thai language websites

Police all over Thailand, and especially Phuket, is understaffed. They recruit volunteers to help increase the Policeforce to improve safety. Arriving an accident scene Highwaypolice can rapidly call for Ambulance, organize traffic flow and provide simple first aid. Anyone being involved in an accident scene know how little the general population knows about first aid and their fear of getting involved. Most of us speak 2-5 languages, can ask about their insurance situation, can guide them to a hospital according to their insurance and budget, and on occasions kick them alive again while spectators and local Police believe they are dead. Sometimes a kick in the heart or getting patient out of shock is all it takes to survive

[terak69]

Developing World is just a PC term for Third World which some organisations feel is a dated term.

Thailand certainly does tick all the recognised boxes for it to be a Third World Country.

Nations Online are not the best source of info when it comes to getting a balanced picture. Frankly, if it suits their agenda then a spade is a bucket.

However we are digressing and I'm off to the pub.

PUB !!!! best idea of all posts

[simon43]

These discussions about the foreign volunteer police crop up regularly on ThaiVisa, and always draw strong feelings and comments.

An important reason cited for the existence of foreign volunteers in tourist locations such as Phuket is that the salaried Thai police officers (of which there are woefully few), are unable to provide an acceptable level of service to both Thai citizens and foreign tourists. The number of salaried police officers is allocated according to the number of registered voters in the province. Phuket has a huge number of unregistered voters, as well as many foreign tourists. So volunteers - both Thai and foreign are invited to assist the police.

Any volunteer operation is open to abuse by those who volunteer for all the wrong reasons, and from my 5 years of police volunteer work in 3 different Thai cities, I know that there are some foreign police volunteers who have morals and ethical standards lower than a very low snake.

I also know that there are many honest and dedicated volunteers, and some who no longer work as volunteers, due to frustrations about the lax attitude and manner in which the volunteer system is operated and abused.

A police volunteer is in the public eye, and therefore it is vitally important that there is a strict code of conduct, a defined system to investigate complaints against volunteers, a defined training, monitoring and assessment system.

Simon

[katabeachbum]

These discussions about the foreign volunteer police crop up regularly on ThaiVisa, and always draw strong feelings and comments.

An important reason cited for the existence of foreign volunteers in tourist locations such as Phuket is that the salaried Thai police officers (of which there are woefully few), are unable to provide an acceptable level of service to both Thai citizens and foreign tourists. The number of salaried police officers is allocated according to the number of registered voters in the province. Phuket has a huge number of unregistered voters, as well as many foreign tourists. So volunteers - both Thai and foreign are invited to assist the police.

Any volunteer operation is open to abuse by those who volunteer for all the wrong reasons, and from my 5 years of police volunteer work in 3 different Thai cities, I know that there are some foreign police volunteers who have morals and ethical standards lower than a very low snake.

I also know that there are many honest and dedicated volunteers, and some who no longer work as volunteers, due to frustrations about the lax attitude and manner in which the volunteer system is operated and abused.

A police volunteer is in the public eye, and therefore it is vitally important that there is a strict code of conduct, a defined system to investigate complaints against volunteers, a defined training, monitoring and assessment system.

Simon

yepp

The registered population is 350.000 people in Phuket. Many factors, including sales and registering of new cars in Phuket to out of Province residents and foreigners (10% of all new reg vehicles in Phuket are on a foreigner), establish the population at approx one million people. In addition there a re a few tourist here on occasions. But all budgets are for 350k people. Including number of payed Police, only 1.000 in Phuket. They need Volunteers. We need Volunteers

[terak69]

Tourist Police Volunteers, more foreigners than Thais, to assist and guide tourists/foreigners

Marine Police Volunteers, more Thais than foreigners

Highwaypolice Volunteers, more Thais than foreigners

Local Police Volunteers, not many around

Immigration Police Volunteers, foreigners assisting at Immigration offices

Different Police forces, different tasks.

How many 'divisions' of TPV are there ???

1. some left over from when Thai Immigration used to patrol the streets in Patong ?

2. Section 8 - work from Kathu Police Station - Patong coverage ?

3. Chalong Police Station - splinter group - Kata & Karon areas ?

I also heard that many farangs signed up as they were expecting Volunteer Visa's & hugely disappointed as non were issued

Which group do we listen to please ????

ALL VERY CONFUSING FOR US MERE MORTALS

[simon43]

Not too sure what the current volunteer organisations are. Bear in mind that the volunteers who work for Thai immigration and from Kathu police station do not fall under the responsibility of the Thai Tourist Police.

My personal view? Too many splinter groups, no common standard applied nationally to all volunteers, too much 'my pet police team' for local police bosses, too little volunteer continuous assessment/monitoring, too little relevant and ongoing training, too few Thai speakers - too little commitment by Thai authorities to invest in and support a professional team of foreign volunteers - and so on and so on...

I am maybe one of the very few who held a police volunteer visa, but it was a hassle to obtain

Apart from that - it's all fine Every Saturday night, I relished the opportunity to get my nose broken (or worse), as I tried to separate drunken tourists who were fighting...

There are some very dedicated and good people working as police volunteers. There are also some who should perhaps be wearing the handcuffs that they carry.

Simon

[brieno1955]

I was a student at Big Bike Highwaypolice Volunteer class 5 in Phuket April 2010. Approx 160 students, 2/3 Thai nationals, 1/3 foreigners. The course was 2 days, and we recieved training on bike related road accident and how to behave, mostly in Thai. All class 5 students have ID HW5xxx.

We are to be supervised by a Thai national payed Police. This officer does not need to be present, but can give instructions on what to do while being in another place. We do not wear uniforms, but some of us wear orange Highwaypolice reflecting vests when marshalling, and most of our vehicles are marked Highwaypolice in English and Thai. When marshalling we direct all vehicles regardless of riders/drivers nationality.

We do not issue fines, but at an accident scene we can withold involved by taking their vehicle keys and ID. Tasks so far have been accident scenes and marshalling. On accident scene local Police have sometimes prefered me to take command, even they have arrived before me, if foreigner in accident probably due to language problems. Marshalling can take place with or without payed Thai Police present, and we stop all traffic we find needed

Among the 160 Police ID card holders from class 5, there seem to be a handfull of rotten apples. All Police ID cards are valid for one year only, and its left to see who will get to renew their Police ID this April. There are also some Highwaypolice pretenders around, flashing an ID card holder looking like a badge, but containing no Police ID card. These topics are being discussed on Thai language websites

Police all over Thailand, and especially Phuket, is understaffed. They recruit volunteers to help increase the Policeforce to improve safety. Arriving an accident scene Highwaypolice can rapidly call for Ambulance, organize traffic flow and provide simple first aid. Anyone being involved in an accident scene know how little the general population knows about first aid and their fear of getting involved. Most of us speak 2-5 languages, can ask about their insurance situation, can guide them to a hospital according to their insurance and budget, and on occasions kick them alive again while spectators and local Police believe they are dead. Sometimes a kick in the heart or getting patient out of shock is all it takes to survive

At last KBB you have confirmed what i said in the BBQ post..Thank you Volunteer Highway Police, so obviously no have absolutely no power to act as real police at the BBQ if the El Queda situation does occur.Your power is strictly limited to acting in a very minor role, as in giving assistance and directions and such to motorists who have been stopped by a real copper and/ or as instucted to you directly by a real cop.Even simp;y directing traffic on ride days, you cannot do so without direct supervision from a real cop.Your assurance that you and other Volunteer cops will be present for security at thr BBQ means nothing as you have zero power.Ziltch

[brieno1955]

Not too sure what the current volunteer organisations are. Bear in mind that the volunteers who work for Thai immigration and from Kathu police station do not fall under the responsibility of the Thai Tourist Police.

My personal view? Too many splinter groups, no common standard applied nationally to all volunteers, too much 'my pet police team' for local police bosses, too little volunteer continuous assessment/monitoring, too little relevant and ongoing training, too few Thai speakers - too little commitment by Thai authorities to invest in and support a professional team of foreign volunteers - and so on and so on...

I am maybe one of the very few who held a police volunteer visa, but it was a hassle to obtain

Apart from that - it's all fine Every Saturday night, I relished the opportunity to get my nose broken (or worse), as I tried to separate drunken tourists who were fighting...

There are some very dedicated and good people working as police volunteers. There are also some who should perhaps be wearing the handcuffs that they carry.

Simon

All of you saying that volunteers cops dont need a WP are wrong...You are in fact breaking the law whilst being the law enforcers!! Because. to make life easier it is not enforced,,this is also illegal!! How bl--dy ironic is that.

We were watching at the police roadblock on last Monday night on Siriraj RD...We were actually upstairs in a guesthouse videoing the goings on. Remember the Thai guy comming from the south,without a helmet..YES?? sees the cops and does a quick U-turn and heads back to the south again..yes? NEXT THING A FARANG WEARING THE "G....... RIDER" PATCH ON A KAWASAKI TAKES OFF LIKE A MANIAC IN PERSUIT AND GET THIS....THIS PRETENDER HAS A SIREN AND FLASHING LIGHTS GOING OFF!!!! FAR FROM LEGAL HUH! Anyway im telling the thai guys i'm with "i'll post this on youtube [both the club and the police will enjoy that, but i think simons advice to report this is going to have more effect in removing this guy as he is obviously "one of the bad eggs!!" Come April "solly we not want you play police more"

Edited March 4, 2011 by brieno1955

[terak69]

I am maybe one of the very few who held a police volunteer visa, but it was a hassle to obtain

I would like top see a copy of 'volunteer visa' as I have been told non have ever been issued for police volunteers. There may of been a few 90 day extensions which do not count. A volunteers visa has to be initiated outside country and extended by Thai immigration inside the country. A scanned copy will suffice.

[simon43]

Terak - you are correct. My stamp was a 90 day extension based on being a police volunteer, and this was obtained quite a few years ago. But it was rather a hassle to obtain this every 90 days, (since the issuing was at the whim of the police boos who might/might not have got out of the wrong side of bed that morning...)

The extension stamp has 'police volunteer' written in Thai language across it

Simon

PS - concerning the need for a WP, this has always been the case, but obtaining a WP for police volunteer work proved to be impossible since any request by me for a supporting letter from my Thai bosses was responded by 'you are police - you don't need WP'

Edited March 4, 2011 by simon43

[BangTaoBoy]

Developing World is just a PC term for Third World which some organisations feel is a dated term.

Thailand certainly does tick all the recognised boxes for it to be a Third World Country.

Nations Online are not the best source of info when it comes to getting a balanced picture. Frankly, if it suits their agenda then a spade is a bucket.

However we are digressing and I'm off to the pub.

Regardless of where the term came from ( I believe the cold war era is correct, as somone mentioned) we all know what we mean by it today. It basically implies the country is on the very bottom rung of the development ladder. To say Thailand is on that rung, puts it on par with african countries, that are quite obviously less developed than here.

If you think developing country is too PC, then how about second world, because third world it isn't.