Red-Shirt Leader Weng 'Turned Crisis Into Opportunity'

[Emptyset]

Emptyset - Thaksin was ousted through 5 criminal charges.Which included hiding share ownership after denying it and embezzling tax money into Shincorp. If there is alternative funding available why has the red shirt movement depended on handouts from Shinawatra for its entire existence? if the present Government took away the current handouts it would face massive unpopularity. the 30 baht health scheme and other incentives bought in by Khun T are kept although the Government is cutting some public hospitals who offer it. You see i admit facts even though i feel the present Government is far and away the best choice for Thailand right now - pity the reds cant. throwing money at people makes them loyal to you even when youre a criminal if they are poor.

No, he was ousted by a coup. Yes, on share ownership but I've never heard about the embezzling tax money thing... the charge against him seemed to be that he'd caused state owned companies losses because of policies designed to benefit Shin. Anyway, no doubt he was corrupt and a murderer, but what does that have to do with what I was saying? I didn't know the government was cutting hospitals that offered the now free health care scheme, shame if true because making sure the scheme is well-funded and widely available is much more important (imo) than many of their other schemes.

[Emptyset]

In fact I think Weng is perhaps lying or to some degree in denial to himself about the role of the MiB and who they were, but I don't think he's purposefully lying or manipulating people as part of some dark plot, which is what you seem to think he's doing (an opinion apparently based on the fact that he's ex-CPT).

Had to laugh when I read that bit.

So in the posters opinion Weng is lying by accident or possibly he just does not know what the truth is.

Or there might be another explanation I dont see.

Possibly he suspects the truth but can't admit it to himself, that was my point. However, I'm arguing against the suggestion, not that Weng is not deceiving himself or even lying to himself and in consequence others, but the notion that he has been deliberately employing CPT influenced propaganda in order to mislead people so that he could carry out his anterior motive of restoring Thaksin. As I said I rather suspect that Weng has his head in the clouds and is driven by ideals rather than hard facts, others think he's deliberate & precise in his actions, deceitful and cunning.

[jdinasia]

More cherry-picking and altering posts (through deletion) by Jayboy.

Thaksin has been found guilty in criminal court for political office holders AND civilly with the assets seizure case .. so neither he nor ianbaggie seem to be correct. Thaksin has not been present to answer the other charges against him in court due to him being a fugitive from justice.

[sbk]

Posts have been deleted.

It IS possible to have a reasonable and civil discussion without resorting to personal attacks. Give it a try guys, you might find you actually enjoy it. Because if it continues i am happy to hand out suspensions.

Cheers

[rubl]

begin removed ...

I'm just saying in this single instance, nothing has been conclusively proven. Once again, the usual straw man, trying to discredit my argument by attributing to me a position I've never held, in this case, that of a delusional foreign red shirt supporter. In fact I think Weng is perhaps lying or to some degree in denial to himself about the role of the MiB and who they were, but I don't think he's purposefully lying or manipulating people as part of some dark plot, which is what you seem to think he's doing (an opinion apparently based on the fact that he's ex-CPT).

What single instance? k. Therdpoum?

As for Dr. weng (as part of the OP) anyone who is in possible denial of himself is at least lying to himself and most likely others. That's part of the denial. Others seem to think Dr. weng may be purposefully manipulating people and I tend to agree. In my case though not because of his ex-CPT status, more because of documented statements of him and his fellow UDD leaders during the last two years. Your previous description of 'ideologically driven' also suggest even you would not be surprise by accusations of propaganda and indoctrination. Fits ex-CPT-ers amongst others.

Edited March 10, 2011 by rubl

[rubl]

EDIT: Incidentally - I used to consider anyone that posted that Infowars page as anything other than a joke instantly discredited and not worth listening to again. But I suppose these days I'm willing to give even Jatuporn another chance...

Thank you for this vote of confidence. Structures nicely with the previous. To (partially) agree and oh by the way ....

Just a minor suggestion that none of the posters remarks should be taken serious, not really.

May I ask where you studied and under whome ?

Edited March 10, 2011 by rubl

[rubl]

Emptyset - if the red shirts reject Thaksin there will be no more finance at rallies and no more handouts from his stolen tax money IF he comes back to power. There will also be no more policies as he has the only ones. Will the red shirt movement make that brave step and TRULY campaign for democracy??? - Personally I doubt it. When a puppet cuts its own strings it usually rolls over limply.

There are other sources of finance and definitely other people quite capable of coming up with policies, I'm sure. What do you mean by "stolen tax money" anyway? This govt is giving out more-or-less the same "handouts" now, so I doubt that's the primary issue. Although I agree with your implied point that simply throwing money at people isn't going to solve things longterm.

Valid movements will always find resources like money and policy makers. Some may attract less respectable financiers who need tools for their own purpose.

The rest is a bit mixed, difficult to understand and relate. 'stolen tax money' followed by 'this government hand-outs' suggests a relation which isn't there. 'doubt it's the primary issue' doesn't say what part of an issue it is?

A rewrite with clearer structure may be in order, young master Emptyset

[timekeeper]

Second, I practiced music, particularly guitar. This will be used in the future struggle.

presumably he will use it as a weapon to attack police, army and anyone else he wants to intimidate to further the red revolutionary's cause

Your unsubstantiated attacks on this man tend to indicate that you dislike he and the red shirt movement. I shared your view at one time just because they caused me inconvenience by blocking streets in Bangkok. Later, I realized that this is a selfish and unthoughtful position and I have come 180 degrees. What these people want is a chance to vote in an honest election. I may not care for the man they support for prime minister but a democracy lets people elect the those they want to get into government. This is a basic tenet of democracy.

This man appears to be clear and well thought in his responses. He deserves more respect than what you have afforded him.

not in my opinion to which i am entitled

just as you are entitled to yours and i respect that

however i do not give a fig about yours

for the record i particularly do not like reds or generally any bully boys of any race or creed who think they can intimidate people with the threat of violence to inflict their views upon them

i find it offensive and anyone who supports that kind of behavior to also be offensive

if you fall into that category, so be it.............