Tourism Entrepreneurs Ask Thai Govt To Scrap Visa Fees

[bitterbatter]

I disagree, Thailand needs quality tourists, not more of them. We don't need a bunch of dredlock wearing Chinese Backpackers.

Honestly though, think about how many distant chinese relatives would tell each other, come work here. Thais already complain about how Thailand is becoming too Chinese. I can' see this going through.

[Jayroo]

My first time in Thailand back in 1987, I felt very welcome indeed. It was truly the land of smiles. Polite, friendly people everywhere I went. Now, 24 years later, it is a very different place; occasional friendliness, occasional hostility, for the most part just indifference.

Annual tourist arrivals were 3 million in 1987, now it is 15 million. Yet, the tourist industry still whines.

Have you considered the rest of the world??

Granted, in rural areas things may be different, but as for most of the bigger cities in Australia:

I rarely even feel welcome, and im a (minority) Aussie citizen

friendliness: rarely, if non existent

More often than not, hostility

I would add to that...you cant be going walking around the streets at night with certain "ethnic" groups of youths roaming around in gangs.

Actually,even if you walk around the streets in the daytime, smiling at someone Thailand style, you will probably get punched in the nose or approached by some tool asking " What the f^ck are smiling at d!ckhead?

Oh, did i forget indifference...errr....luxury in Australia

haha yeah I agree, Australia is getting worse each year, I can't wait to get out and make my permanent move to Thailand, wayyyy better country.

Why compare Thailand with all kinds of countries in other parts of the world, just compare it with Thailand like it was 10+ years ago, that's much more interesting.

I compare it because I want to, I wouldn't have a clue how Thailand was 10 years ago, jeez I'm not that old thank goodness, I only started traveling there through work 3 years ago, and moving mid-year.

[Jayroo]

I wonder why Thailand can't allow tourists 90-day visa-free stays, just like Malaysia, S.Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong..............

I can choose, I have dual citizenship with another country that allows 90day visa free stay, wooohooo!!!

[duncanb]

Surprise surprise, an interested party is trying to lobby a government- it happens everywhere, what's the big fuss all about?

As for other points raised in this topic

Visa fees

Scrap the fees, keep the fees, raise the fees- it's a cost of being here. my water bill in the UK was about £800 a few years back, my bill here in bangkok was about £30, there are many examples of how relatively cheap it is to live in Thailand, so if the cost/inconvenience of this is a visa or a visa run every 90 days then so be it. That said, If the authorities do not want long term tourists then introduce a limit on the lengh of stay and remove all loopholes. If the authorites want long term tourists then issue a suitable visa- simple , convenient and dignified for eveyone removing uncertainty?

Dual Pricing

It exists elsewhere in the world. Its not nice, its not really fair. Its not the ammount, in many circumstances its the principle, hense I avoid such places if possible.

Crime

I have been here for about 2 years and never been witness to any crime (with the exception of criminally insane driving :-))I am afraid to say that if you are doing undesirable things, or associating with undesirables, you are more likely to be affected by criminality (not to say this is mutually exclusive, you can also just be unfortunate), so avoid undesirable things if it bothers you. Define undesirable? If you are not proud to tell your Mother, brother, sister, daughter, son about them, then its probably undesirable.

Racism

Yes, some if not many Thais, British, American, Australian, Chinesse............ are racist, but some, if not many are lovely genuine caring upstanding people. Why people choose to generalise and call an entire nation of people racist is beyond me.

High v Low end tourism

As for targeting high end tourists, :

Before targeting a tourist type, one should define a Low end and High end tourist? One should also consider that high end (assuming wealthy) do not necessarily spend like there was no tomorrow, and low end (assuming less wealthy) do not necessarity keep their walets and purses shut, this is often the holiday of a lifetime and they often plan to enjoy it. Take away all the backpackers and a lot of Thais lose income and indeed jobs. Where does the income from the big hotels and resorts (assuming high end tourists stay there) end up? (I am betting a good percentage leaves the country). Where does the income from street stalls, guest houses, small hotels end up? (I am guessing the majority stays in Thailand).

Have fun whoever you are and remember life is too short.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I disagree, Thailand needs quality tourists, not more of them. We don't need a bunch of dredlock wearing Chinese Backpackers.

Honestly though, think about how many distant chinese relatives would tell each other, come work here. Thais already complain about how Thailand is becoming too Chinese. I can' see this going through.

OK, I accept that chinese can sport dreadlocks but I don't consider this to be the norm. To be fair, I suppose that there would be more Chinese with dreadlocks than there are West Indian rastafarians with yellow skin and slanted eyes!!!

On your second point - I think that maybe the ethnic Chinese you refer to are already here and I'm not sure how many would want to come and work in Thailand whilst there economy and economic growth is so supercharged and China as a nation is prospering!!

[ginjag]

reply to dunkin2012--#120,

You asked me where I got my info from. Compare Sri Lanka-Thai---easy I have been here 30 years---and travelled there....so much, Where the hell did you think I got it from.............???/----- You love it here Good------hope you can stay away from the sharks--they do bite hard. live alone and rent whatever --you will have no problems. Thats not to say that you cant meet up with a partner, it's provided for you here---and luck could be on your side.

You tell me in 30 years time what you then have experienced here---5555555555 it may be a different story---you keep dunkin IT don't forget your rubber !!!

[oldsailor35]

So how do i understand this? people don't come to Thailand because the visa is too expensive? is this for real? Wow, Now, Thailand has no visa fees,everybody is going to come here and spend lots and lots of money,they saved on the visa fees............PUKE...

This is part of the the attract a better class of tourists plan.

It would be nice to meet a "better class" of tourist operator when the tourists get here. e.g. Put all those thieves in the Jet ski hire and taxi /tuk tuk industry in jail to start. But no! they obviously do not appear to be a problem and as the Phuket mayor recently said.......the jet ski people are not rich like the tourists. Which appears to me that he was saying "just cop it mate" you can all afford it.

[visawalker]

Free visa BAD IDEA!

Edited March 11, 2011 by visawalker

[coralia]

OK Jayroo, so you are Korean... Good for you. If I could choose between Korea and Thailand, I would choose Korea... it's a much better place.

[brahmburgers]

To those who first visited Thailand decades ago, as I did, let me say this;

Three reasons why it was cheerier back then was:

>>>> it was all new to you at that time. I can remember first seeing the amazing roofs on the temples, and the beautiful girls and children smiling - at an older guy - wow, great - we sure didn't get as much of that in farangland.

>>>> you were younger then, and probably higher and less cynical

>>>> it was cheerier back then.

I made a conscious decision, when I moved to reside in Thailand, an eighth of a century ago, to reside in a place which was not too touristy - far from Bkk, and far from Pattaya, Phuket, Samui, and Chiang Mai. I don't regret it. All the touristy places are getting more gridlocked, and their people are getting increasingly jaded towards tourists.

Perhaps it's time to move further afield from the noise, crime, and cynical people (farang & Thai). Where to? Recently, I took a drive through beautiful uninhabited hills in upper Shan State, NE Burma. Perhaps that's a future place, along with the still pristine islands of southern Burma, where humans will yet bring their trash and misery? ...but not too soon, I hope. Maybe there's a silver lining to having the Burmese 'farang-hating' junta in power.

Edited March 12, 2011 by brahmburgers

[Bakseedaa]

The way I understand this plea is for the fees to be eliminated for Chinese Tourist Visas.

Do Chinese have to pay to enter Thailand unlike the majority of other nations who are automatically given a 30 day Tourist Visa on first arrival?

The 30 day tourist pass, is NOT a visa....

[Bakseedaa]

To those who first visited Thailand decades ago, as I did, let me say this;

Three reasons why it was cheerier back then was:

>>>> it was all new to you at that time. I can remember first seeing the amazing roofs on the temples, and the beautiful girls and children smiling - at an older guy - wow, great - we sure didn't get as much of that in farangland.

>>>> you were younger then, and probably higher and less cynical

>>>> it was cheerier back then.

I made a conscious decision, when I moved to reside in Thailand, an eighth of a century ago, to reside in a place which was not too touristy - far from Bkk, and far from Pattaya, Phuket, Samui, and Chiang Mai. I don't regret it. All the touristy places are getting more gridlocked, and their people are getting increasingly jaded towards tourists.

Perhaps it's time to move further afield from the noise, crime, and cynical people (farang & Thai). Where to? Recently, I took a drive through beautiful uninhabited hills in upper Shan State, NE Burma. Perhaps that's a future place, along with the still pristine islands of southern Burma, where humans will yet bring their trash and misery? ...but not too soon, I hope. Maybe there's a silver lining to having the Burmese 'farang-hating' junta in power.

Unluckily Bhram, we are not allowed onto those islands as yet... Have you been to Mergui, difficult enough to get a pass to travel there, but worth the trouble..!

[Shurup]

And of course more discrimination about other nationalities ... what about the other tourists ?

How about a double fee for the Russians? Even though they don't actually need a visa...

Are you trying to be funny or something? How about a double visa fee for Brits, or Americans, or Australians, or... wherever you came from? Do they personally bother you except for the fact that they are here? If you don't like it so much then leave and find another place/country where there is no Russians.

People living in the Northern countries DO like to go on holidays somewhere nice and warm to get away from -30C weather. For Russians it is Thailand. If you would travel to Mexico or Cuba or anywhere in the Caribbean would you complain about the number of Canadians/Americans out there? Probably not and that would make you a racist, not any better than those racist Thais that are being mentioned all over TV.

[Ulysses G.]

If I could choose between Korea and Thailand, I would choose Korea... it's a much better place.

If you like freezing your butt off for much of the year.

[coralia]

Oh, but they have the best heating system...

Anyway, please leave my butt out of this, if you don't mind.

[TAWP]

But people with money from the US won't come here because Thailand has a reputation in our country of being a total scam and extremely racist, both of which are true.

What BS, being from the States myself, 99% of the Americans you talk to, don't know that Thailand is even a country. They confuse Thailand with Taiwan...... they do not associate Thailand with scams, that is Nigeria and they associate racism with Alabama.

I think the poster was referring to people that actually is educated enough to have decent jobs so they can travel - and then implicitlyu has some knowledge about the surroundings above the average Joe.

[TAWP]

My calculations, the key number is how many MORE come because of the no fee.

let's say for every 100 tourist you gain 10 extra from no visa fees. that means Thailand lost 100*1,900 baht or 1,900,000 baht from the missing visa fee.

So the 10 extra tourist would have to make up the total loss, (1900000/10 = 190,000 each) in VAT fees.

Now for the government to get 190,000 in VAT fees from each tourist, each of the 10 would need to spend 2,714,286 on their vocation to Thailand.

I think we all know that will not happen.

You calculate like a politician.

The truth in spending is that the original Visa-fee was taken out of the travelers saved up vacation-amount. By not taking out this fee they will still spend it - on location in Thailand.

The fee isn't big enough so people start setting up a separate savings-account to make sure they now don't spend the amount when they don't have to pay it -- they let it remain in the wallet and by a nice dinner one more day during their short vacation.

[ding]

Subsidize international flights, that will do it. All else is for show... just licking it around the edges. Get to the ice cream!

[MAJIC]

They need the visa fees to cover all the stamps, paper, files, employees, paper, folders, paper, more stamps, paper ... did I forget to mention... paper?

Ah never mind Asia,the photocopies will cover all the Visa expense.

It amazes me that in the computer age, photcopies and passport photos are required by thai consulates when you apply for a visa. Just how hard would it be for consulate staff to slap your passport onto a scanner and record the data, or if you have a new chip-type passport, to download this data from the chip.

Going back to oz is now a snap - insert passport, smile at the camera, done and dusted. Even bloody Myanmar can do it, and Cambodia has on-line visa service.

Ah yes,I remember the advent of Computers well,the "Paperless Office"

What went wrong? its all been the biggest waste of Paper in history.Most people don't trust Computers not to crash,thus the backup in print,and Printers that dont work properly,and mangle up paper,and spew out garbage,not to mention,a final look at an important letter,that has a mistake,and needs reprinting. Receiving the same Bill twice in the same Post, and on and on it goes,unecessary photo copies being one of the main culprits.

Edited March 21, 2011 by MAJIC

[tropo]

I wonder why Thailand can't allow tourists 90-day visa-free stays, just like Malaysia, S.Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong..............

Malaysia, for example, does not allow 90 day visa-free stays for all nationalities. A Thai person would only get a month, same for most ASEAN member countries.

Don't automatically assume all posters come from the same countries (i.e. America, Western Europe, Australia). It is very difficult for many nationalities to get visas for Japan.

[cdnvic]

Deleted one flame and several posts that inexplicably quoted it. If someone is blatantly flaming, don't respond or quote it please. You time is just being wasted when the post winds up getting binned.

[Emster23]

I would rather go to Thai immigration any day of the week than have to deal with the US embassy and immigration, and I'm an American.

90 day reporting is not too much imho. We are aliens, remember.

A visa fee would not stop me from going most places, unless it was huge, such as to the USA. My guess is that what puts off travelers is the never ending scams, corruption and shake downs that make visiting a lovely country like Thailand too much like running a gauntlet.

The idea that backpackers are somehow not worthy is in error. They are more likely to use local guest houses, eat at locally owned food outlets, use local transportation. They may spend less, but the money goes to the local people, not some corporation like Hyatt.

[dunkin2012]

I would rather go to Thai immigration any day of the week than have to deal with the US embassy and immigration, and I'm an American.

90 day reporting is not too much imho. We are aliens, remember.

A visa fee would not stop me from going most places, unless it was huge, such as to the USA. My guess is that what puts off travelers is the never ending scams, corruption and shake downs that make visiting a lovely country like Thailand too much like running a gauntlet.

The idea that backpackers are somehow not worthy is in error. They are more likely to use local guest houses, eat at locally owned food outlets, use local transportation. They may spend less, but the money goes to the local people, not some corporation like Hyatt.

Yep and local touting taxis............ at swampie

[Awohalitsiktoli]

I would rather go to Thai immigration any day of the week than have to deal with the US embassy and immigration, and I'm an American.

90 day reporting is not too much imho. We are aliens, remember.

A visa fee would not stop me from going most places, unless it was huge, such as to the USA. My guess is that what puts off travelers is the never ending scams, corruption and shake downs that make visiting a lovely country like Thailand too much like running a gauntlet.

The idea that backpackers are somehow not worthy is in error. They are more likely to use local guest houses, eat at locally owned food outlets, use local transportation. They may spend less, but the money goes to the local people, not some corporation like Hyatt.

Good points, especially about backpackers. Waiving a visa fee, IMHO, is not really the issue; the issue is convenience. It makes sense to waive the need to obtain a visa before traveling to Thailand. And, upon arrival, perhaps charging nothing or a small entry fee (similar to Cambodia). That makes the entire process more convenient for travelers, especially spur-of-the moment travelers. Waiving the need for a flight ticket out of the country also makes sense. Make it easy on travelers! It is not about money, it is about convenience. And give travelers a 90 day stamp upon arrival!

Edited April 17, 2011 by Awohalitsiktoli

[Tomtomtom69]

All the cynacism about China and it's influence in Thailand is well founded, but these days the Chinese are proud and definately aware of the differences between their country and Thailand. I don't have any recent statistics, but I don't think large scale immigration from China to Thailand is occurring anymore; there are a number of reasons why this is not taking place anymore (including China improving its living standards). Also, China and Thailand are two different societies and I don't see any reason why they [the Chinese] should be treated better than other foreigners. Remember that the Chinese have very different social habits to the Thais. Spitting, speaking loudly, getting visibly upset and other annoying habits are common amongst the Chinese, but looked down upon by the Thais. Ask any Thai person what they think about China and most will be happy to comment on the culture and the excellent food, but other aspects of China are not well appreciated by Thais.

On the other hand, many Chinese aren't too happy about living under the auspicies of the Chinese Communist Party with all it's restrictions on freedom, but most would rather live in the USA than Thailand, given the chance. Just ask them and see what they'll say.

BTW Chinese people usually don't apply for 15 day on arrival visas because their authorities won't let them leave without a Thai visa in their passport! The PRC government basically overrides the Thai law then. So every Chinese person shows up with a Thai visa in their passport despite being eligible for a VOA. I've witnessed this myself...at the Thai consulate in Kunming there were plenty of tourist visa applicants despite most Chinese visitors staying only a few days on average. I don't know who found out that Chinese passports are not stamped. This is illegal and can't possibly be true. Chinese people travelling on PRC passports are foreigners and as such must be treated the same way as all other foreigners when in Thailand; I have personally seen Thai stamps on Chinese passports. Also, Thais still need visas in advance for travelling to China, but it's an easy process to procure one. However, it's not anymore difficult for westerners or other nationalities to get a Chinese visa. Therefore, I don't think the Thais are respected more than other foreigners in China, or vice versa.

In terms of the visa fee being scrapped to increase tourism, i think it's a dumb idea that won't really increase tourism as many nationalities can get a VOA anyway, plus most people don't have enough time to stay for 60 or 90 days. A better idea would be to scrap dual pricing, but it may be a long time before that occurs. If anything, make the application process for a Thai visa easier, or just allow VOA available for more nationalities and/or allow 60 or 90 day visas to be available on arrival, rather than the current 30 days (if flying in). Thailand has enough tourists already with 15 million a year they really don't need more. Better focus on quality not quantity. Focus on bringing in more high spending tourists. I mean, how many tourists will it take before Thailand becomes satisfied? I've heard claims of 30 million or so. 30 million? God...that's nearly half the population of the country already.

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind seeing 10 million of those tourists being Chinese; maybe that would improve things given the ever increasing spending power of the Chinese. Most of them come for things like bird's nest soup, shopping and also for the tropical weather and beaches, both of which are uncommon in China except parts of the far south (Hainan for beaches and Sipsongbanna for the weather). One day it may be possible to see relatively few falang tourists in Thailand and instead see masses of Chinese tourists. Give it 10 or 20 years I'd say.