Transcendental Meditation

[SpoliaOpima]

Anyone thinking of getting involved should do their homework. Investigate all sides rather than blindly accepting the movement's claims. The same sort of critical thinking should be exercised before investing in any sort of self-help program.

Yes but what homework would that be exactly? Since TM is a practical thing you can go on endlessly "investigating" but without learning it you will never actually know what it is. I have no idea why you are an exTMer. Did you have regular checks to find out if you were practising correctly as it's a very subtle technique.

Yes, it is unashamedly based on the vedic yoga traditions of India. What is the issue here?

You do not understand what deity means in this context.. The various so called gods (deities) in the veda refers to states of consciousness. It is only in modern Hinduism that this idea has been corrupted to make the gods real. The veda is monotheistic. There is only Brahman. You will always find corruptions of pure teaching. I know many Thais here who go to the temple hoping to get lucky numbers for the lottery. But we know that isn't what Buddha taught.

Yes I had regular checks and proceeded to 'advanced' levels, where TM charged increasingly high fees for each level, merely to add one or two syllables to my original mantra. For example, taking the original deity name, then adding 'nama' to it for the first advanced level. 'Nama' merely means 'homage to' or 'praise.' In my opinion it's a scam, and that is the issue. These traditions are free in India, and to anyone anywhere who can read a book or two. It's the spiritual equivalent of snake oil.

What is your source for the claim that Brahmanist deities were 'states of mind'? Is Vishnu a state of mind in the Vedas? LIke all religious texts, the content comprises mythmaking and cosmology. Have you actually read any Vedic texts? Original citations please.

Either way, what is the point in chanting the mantra whether it's a deity or the name of a state of consciousness? Will chanting the name of a state of consciousness produce it? I remain sceptical, as do a large number of people who have been associated with the TM movement.

For me it's a moodmaking exercise, a relaxing moodmaking activity. Neurological studies at Harvard Medical School and elsehwere have found that the same results accrue to meditators using any silent repetition of simple words. In one classic study, the ECG/EKG readouts for meditators using the word 'one' as a mantra were the same as for those using 'Ianga' (one of the 'secret' mantras). The selection of mantras prescribed by the TM movmement over the years has been so inconsistent that any proprietary claims to a system that is being sold at quite high fees are rather dubious.

The stress-relieving benefits of meditation based on mantras or repeated syllables isn't in question. The ethics of selling mantras which the TM org claims are 'secret' (which they aren't, except in TM) is. The whole system of 'checking' and moving from one level to another is also questionable. Can a TM teacher really read or 'check' your meditative state by sitting together with you? The presumption of psychic power is a rather dubious and cultilike position.

There are reams of material on the web that go into great detail on the specifics of the scam/cult characteristics of TM. On the other hand there are also tons of positive claims from those inside. Anyone considering buying into the TM cult/movement should do some serious reading of both schools of thought before putting down their cash, in my opinion.

In other words, a simple caveat emptor applies, as in any financial commitment or transaction.

Edited May 23, 2011 by SpoliaOpima

[trd]

I'm really sorry you didn't transcend and experience samadhi. I assume that's the case as you have come to the conclusion that the practice of TM is mere "mood making". WIth all due respect, you seem to be beating yourself up over this. You spent money on something you had certain expectations about and they were unfulfilled and you are focussing the resulting resentment on the "cult aspects" of the TM organisation. I find your response baffling. Why would you go on to learn advanced techiniques if it wasn't working for you? You have to be meditating regularly and in a positive way for one year before you are allowed to do them. It is also somewhat confusing in the way that you refer to negative scientific studies. What are you trying to validate? Is not your own experience primary? And where did you get the idea that a TM teacher used some kind of psychic power to check your meditation. Very amusing.

There are two issues here. The first is the practice itself and the second is the organisation.

Let's deal with the organisation first. No organisation is without flaws, but to use the word "cult" which in popular usage implies sinister manipulation of some kind is to me absurd. Can you honestly say that you felt this at any time in your contact with your teacher or TM Centre? In thirty years of practice I have not had much to do with the organisation, but I'm not an organisation type of person. I did go on a few group meditation courses. Did I feel I was being drawn into a cult. That would be nonsense. There are cults of the kind you mention, but TM is not one of them.

However there are certain personality types who get very dependent on support structures in organisations. That dependency can become damaging if the individual feels wronged in some way. But that's not exclusive to TM. It can happen at your local golf club. Also the drug crazed hippy sixties did draw in many unstable people to TM. The organisation later admitted that it should have been more vigilant with the vetting procedures. Do you realise how many monks have mental problems in Thai temples. I read an article about that not so long ago in the Nation. But on that basis would anyone call Buddhism a cult?

The simple fact is that the vast majority of people who practice TM have nothing to do with the organisation. They practice twice day in the privacy of their own homes. Many of their friends may not even know about it. It is a yoga technique like many others based on the vedic teachings of India going back about three thousand years. It's a vast body of literature but for anyone interested I would recommend they read the Bhagavad Gita and Shankara's, The Crest Jewel of Discrimination.

I for one am extremely grateful for the benefits this precious knowledge has brought to my life. This is my my last post as I don't see any constructive reason to continue the discussion on a negative level, but if anyone has any life enhancing questions you can PM me.

Edited May 25, 2011 by trd

[peanutbutter]

Before I started meditating, I used to think that I have been living life mindlessly, doing things merely because it has been my routine for my whole life. I seriously enrolled in a meditation class aiming to change my perspective in life and be more aware of myself and thus improve the life I am living. I questioned whether I will be able to attain the state of “inner peace” by being mindful, but now I can say I am very close to living a life of balance and control. Through meditation, I am able to isolate emotion, and with practice I have been able to identify what triggers my emotions and judgment. Practicing mindfulness and meditation has allowed me to live a life of calmness and although I sometimes go astray, I always try to bring myself back to being focused and aware

[Hermes100]

I think we should separate between what is taught and the teacher.

We should not blame TM if some people have chosen to exploit it.

Its not the fault of TM that these people have perverted and brought a bad name to it.

I would suggest getting a good teacher. That in my mind is paramount .

[LoveT]

Seems you guys have different opinions.

No reason I decided on TM - I have read about it years ago, it stuck in my mind and was recommended by a friend recently. I am also considering Vipassana. Basically I suspect I suffer from somniphonbia (fear of hypnotism and sleep / loss of control). I fing normal meditation boring, I need a routine. I need to comfort and relax my mind.

I am not willing to pay $1500 though. I will pay, but Vipassana is based on donations, which makes more sense.

Any other advice will be appreaciated.

[schbang]

I would highly recommend TM. I've been practicing it for 30 years and without wanting to be critical of other techniques, as each has its value, I consider TM to be more effective than the mindfullness method taught in Buddhism.

totally agree. 25 years now. i tried 5 tech's before tm. the simplest and most successful.

[rellim]

I'm also interested in learning TM. Is there somewhere on Phuket or Bangkok where this practise is taught in English.

[Neeranam]

I learned the TM technique many years ago in my home country. The initial experience far surpassed the local Buddhist centre's mindfulness technique. I say 'initial' regarding TM as I've never experienced the same feeling since. In fact, a 'regular' practitioner/helper at the TM Centre exclaimed 'I wish I was learning this Technique - TM - for the first time, it's never the same after'. That stuck with me, and, apart from devoting one's life as an aesthete, understand what he was saying.

On the other hand, I find the 'mindfulness' technique of counting from 1-10 over and over, irritating and distracting.

If I can, emptying my mind completely does it for me. Difficult, but not impossible.

Download Eckart Tolles' ebook, Wonder of Now. Or hop over to Injah.

I'd love to go back to India, where I learned different types of meditation 23 years ago. You mean "The Power Of Now" and I agree it's a great book.

I went to Rishikesh once and saw the TM centre but there were so many other types of yoga/meditation which appealed to me more. I was attracted to the Hindu ones more than the Buddhist.

The best I ever found was actually available to me back home. This was Raja Yoga.

There are Brahma Kumaris centres in Bangkok and it is free to learn.

http://www.brahmakumaris.org//whereweare/center

This has been so beneficial to me over the years - I highly recommend it.

You can learn TM in Bangkok these days too, it's 15,000 baht for a 5 day course(2 hours a day)

[Sceptict11]

"This has been so beneficial to me over the years - I highly recommend it."

Please explain the specific "benefits"

[Neeranam]

Benefits include peace of mind, happiness, improved relationships/concentration/memory/emotional stability. Helped me quit smoking/drinking. INcreased health. Greater tolerance and compassion. Eradication of panic attacks and anxiety. There are so many more benefits but I thought I'd let you know some.

[hermespan]

TM - pros and CONS

I practiced TM for about ten years. I lived in its centre in Fairfield, Iowa. I learned the fraudulent 'TM-Sidhi' program. I quit the movement when the negatives outweighed the positives. However, no one put a gun to my head and forced me to sleep with my head east, avoid garlic and onions, listen to Sama Veda before bed and think uncritically.

Pro

1. Like Scientology, it is highly critical of big pharma

2. It kept me away from recreational drugs when I was a teenager

3. I had an incredibly enlightening mystical experience in my first meditation

4. Its members tend to be harmless.

5. It encourages health and ecology

6. I met many kind people

Con

1. Organization encourages very expensive priestcraft ceremonies (yagnyas)

2. It lies a lot (too many examples)

3. There is zero morality teaching

4. It is expensive to learn

5. Leadership is dictatorial like many cults

6. New worlwide and zonal leaderships were sold to a 'Maharaja' and 'Rajahs'

7. It has perverted traditional Indian medicine

8. It encourages astrology

9. Unless things have changed interest and participation in other self development techniques of a spiritual nature is prohibited.

[hermespan]

The technique itself I benefitted from and I have no fault with (it definitely is not contemplation or like Buddhist meditation of gently controlled thoughts and feelings). I would continue if a medical condition does not prevent me from practicing. Currently, I would be following the instruction to 'feel the body' rather than drift sweetly in between random thoughts and coming back gently to the mantra. The obvious Brahminical Hindu and yogic origins never bothered me. although I find the TM movement and Naharishi himself disingenuous. Better Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Yogannanda or so many other real teachers.

I have fond memories from the seventies of when TM was less of a religion - then came the embarrassment of. 'yogic flying', 'Vedic architecture' and perhaps worst of all Maharishi's grandoise projects.

[trd]

I never got involved with the TM movement as you did, but while I agree with you that I too found many aspects of the organization disagreeable, it shouldn't detract from that fact that the practice is extremely effective and has benefitted many people.

I don't mean to pry, but I am curious as to why a medical condition would prevent you from practising a technique that is after all just thinking.

[hermespan]

I never got involved with the TM movement as you did, but while I agree with you that I too found many aspects of the organization disagreeable, it shouldn't detract from that fact that the practice is extremely effective and has benefitted many people.I don't mean to pry, but I am curious as to why a medical condition would prevent you from practising a technique that is after all just thinking.

I have tinnitus 24/7. It is most noticeable when in a quiet place. For the benefit of those who have not bern initiated and practiced TM, the instruction for dealing with a distracting sensation (other than a fleeting one, in which case the instruction is to repeat the mantra as usual on the level of attention more than sound) is to focus on the location of the disturbance (leg wound source of pain or whatever). With TM I would spend my entire twenty minutes dwelling on the body if I practiced now.

I have considered other forms of meditation that are less passive (e.g. Loving kindnrss, walking and breathing meditations of Theravada Buddhism) , and indeed practiced ritual pujas (worship ceremonies) to Hindu deities (I was once a fan of South Indian Saivism - so I don't discredit religion so much as find the misrepresentation od cults unethical).

Another issue I have with TM is that unlike say joining a religious sect (regardless if it is Ortjodox Christianity, Mahayana Buddhism or whatever) is that one discovers as one goes what is expected of one. TH group did not tell me in advance. First it was twenty minutes twice a day, then plus hatha yoga, then plus vegetarian diet (one of the practices I continue), plus longer meditations in residence..... At one point in Iowa I was doing my 'program' 5 hours a day, while disliking the local TM leaders and seeing seekers told to stop attending lectures by renegade teachers or other gurus, and seeing Maharishi having built for his visit a security barricade. I left to meditate without any association with the movement. I find the TM movement moronic and now largely commercial. At one point while still a 'true believer' a Canadian leader who barred me from taking additional courses until I was 'one-pointed' told me, and I kid you not, to 'put all my booksvon philosophy, religion, Sanskrit and mythology - in a big bonfire and burn them.'

I recommend TM or any meditation. And unlike the Hare Krishnas there were no bizarre murders and meglomaniac lower level leaders. But now westerners pay big fees to support schools of very traditional (but not popular) Vedic Hinduism of the TM movement in India.

We were duped.

[trd]

Thank you for your reply. I hope my response is encouraging.

I started practicing TM over 30 years ago.

About 7 years ago I developed tinnitus 24/7

About 4 years ago while meditating, in an instant, I became established in permanent samadhi which has never disappeared even for a second. Maharishi called it cosmic consciousness.

[trd]

The tinnitus is just an object like any other object in the external world of name and form. My advice would be to try practicing without the mantra. Just turn the attention inwards to the silence and abide there. It is possible that the tinnitus is forcing you to put effort in thinking the mantra thereby causing some tension. If you have practiced for any length of time the mantra should have become very subtle by now. I am sure you can transcend without it. Give it a go.

[kuno]

Dear LOVE T

there are many TM Teacher in Bangkok Area. Just visit the local TM Center!

Ayurveda is also supported from the government.

And you will find that many schools, prisons, monstry, business are using TM for relaxation, success and enlightenment.

Enjoy,

Kuno

[Kitsune]

I have a friend in BKK who just been doing yoga paired with TM and is really happy about it.

Apparently her teacher is fantastic.

I could ask her for details if you wish

Edited January 24, 2015 by Kitsune

[Ebenweb]

On 3/15/2011 at 8:47 PM, sabaijai said:

Define 'effective.' If relaxation and stress reduction is the objective, Buddhism has a load of techniques described in the Visuddhi Magga that will have the same effect, for free.

Or check one of several websites that expose TM's 'personal mantras,' which in fact are shared with millions and defined only by gender and age group.

http://tmfree.blogspot.com/2007/01/mantras-part-1.html

http://minet.org/mantras.html

Mindfulness has a completely different objective, one that TM can't claim to fulfill. They are completely different contemplative methodologies.

The TM mantras have no intrinsic meaning--they're just a sound. Whether they're shared among practitioners without their knowledge is immaterial. 

[sabaijai]

On 7/20/2017 at 7:01 AM, Ebenweb said:

The TM mantras have no intrinsic meaning--they're just a sound. Whether they're shared among practitioners without their knowledge is immaterial. 

 

Not true. Every TM mantra has a meaning. Here's one source:

http://minet.org/www.trancenet.net/secrets/mantras.shtml