Policy On Thai Residency Should Not Be Secret

[Arkady]

The islands absolutely awash with long term expatriates, lifers some of them, all living on whim and a prayer of annual visa extensions, to the degree that during the low season perhaps there's more visalites than tourists.

The vast majourity will spend twenty, thirty perhaps even forty years on a temporary extension in a land where they have established a physical, emotional, and financial attachment and commitment.

So long that the notorious British Inland Revenue, might even concede that they had changed their domicile of birth to that of a domicile of choice.

A couple of years ago I made some enquires from the head of the Immigration Department in Phuket town, casually inquiring if they could provide me with some statistics, regarding how many applicants had actually been granted residency and Thai nationality during the past year. They were not forthcoming, or to put it all into context how many of them have ever been declared in the Phuket Gazette.

A combination of factors should be established over a period of time, to meet some kind of default criteria whereby ones rank could be elevated from a paying guest to that of an officially welcomed resident.

A lot of us have come here to retire, and lets be perfectly honest about this, to die to.

We have brought our chattels and our wealth, and even for those that have requested to be buried, it's hardly as if they are going to take their plot with them.

Anybody who has spent the last ten years here, kept their nose clean, has a financially secure back ground, invested in the country through land or a business, supports a family, should automatically be considered.

PR was originally given to foreign workers (mainly Chinese) coming to Thailand without quota, if they could prove they had a profession (coolie was acceptable) that would enable them to earn a living. The wording of the current 1979 Immigration Act still contains references to the need to be able to earn a living and the interpretation is still very much that PR is something for working foreigners who are able to provide some kind of benefit to Thai society through their work and payment of tax. Retirement and having Thai dependents are not mentioned in the Immigration Act as criteria for permanent residence. In fact they are not mentioned even as justifications for granting temporary leave to remain in the Kingdom. Given PR status to retirees would require amendments to the Immigration Act which is unlikely to be a government priority in the near future. So don't hold your breath. The best that could be hoped is a longer term retirement visa, say 10 years renewable, but that would come with the higher financial hurdles and would probably tempt them to raise the bar on 1 year retirement extensions at the same time.

The immigration law on permanent residence is actually quite reasonable, even though retirees might not agree with the requirement to be working in Thailand and to have paid 3 full years' worth of salaries tax. The problem is that the law has never been administered in a very fair and transparent way and, since 2006, has effectively not been administered at all.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Arkady

[TechnikaIII]

"Permanent residency applicants, many of them from Phuket, represent the best and brightest of Thailand's expatriate community."

Not sure that's saying much. Most foreigners I've seen working here are pretty incompetent (I doubt anyone would employ them in the West, which I suppose is why they are here) and anyone retired here presumably doesnt need to bother about permanent residency anyway.

Maybe there's some other group of sparkling expats that I have yet to encounter.

>> "Most foreigners I've seen working here are pretty incompetent" ... What are you crapping on about ?!

For anyone to say such a thing, especially hidden by forum anonymity, is just a waste of space. You have no authority, and present no data. So, .. get lost.

[Richard4849]

Thailandadam, you are wrong.

You do not need to read or write Thai. You don't even have to speak well. Language makes up just a few of the points that go into your overall rating.

And no under-the-table is required. Just determination and patience.

[kinmaew]

Meanwhile my local Thai shop is run 100% by Thais (For 30 years), they own their own house and land and doing very well thanks in western country.

I also know Thais who come here as "Students" and work for cash full time, and get away with it.

Can any Thai out there tell me why your country is so anti-foreign? What are you scared of?

Why cant I own my own house and land in Thailand like Thais do in my country, answer me that!

[p_brownstone]

I was not referring to Income tax clearance which was done away with a long time ago. As a resident of Thailand you do have to pay tax and submit tax form declaring your income. If you have not being doing this you might get into trouble,

Anyone who works in Thailand has to pay Income Tax - there is absolutely no special requirement for those who have Permanent Residency.

Patrick

[avalonmick]

Thanks Mario, but I disagree that it was off-topic.

The subject matter is highly germaine to the discussion but perhaps it was a bit facetiously expressed. I was attempting to explore the sociological and psychological reasons for this policy existing in the context of Thai culture and economics. As other posters have pointed out, it actively discriminates against foreign males without actually giving a reason for this discrimination. It can't be economic because most incoming male residents would want to ensure they were economically self-sufficient. If the government is worried about a tsunami of poor, post menopausal foreign males it can adjust the system to ensure each individual is healthy and self funding, as is done in Australia. The policy as it stands is, after all, complementary to that other unwritten but widely followed Thai policy of exploiting Thai women and treating them as an export commodity, and the two policies work together create a supply/demand situation that works in the government's favour financially, but is clearly morally bankrupt.

You were right to delete my facetious post and I apologise for it, but here is a link to an article that makes fun of Australian males in the same way: http://bit.ly/fhdMOM

Off topic comment deleted.

[avalonmick]

Thanks Arkady. Those are very useful and insightful points.

Why has processing stopped? No-one seems to know.

The islands absolutely awash with long term expatriates, lifers some of them, all living on whim and a prayer of annual visa extensions, to the degree that during the low season perhaps there's more visalites than tourists.

The vast majourity will spend twenty, thirty perhaps even forty years on a temporary extension in a land where they have established a physical, emotional, and financial attachment and commitment.

So long that the notorious British Inland Revenue, might even concede that they had changed their domicile of birth to that of a domicile of choice.

A couple of years ago I made some enquires from the head of the Immigration Department in Phuket town, casually inquiring if they could provide me with some statistics, regarding how many applicants had actually been granted residency and Thai nationality during the past year. They were not forthcoming, or to put it all into context how many of them have ever been declared in the Phuket Gazette.

A combination of factors should be established over a period of time, to meet some kind of default criteria whereby ones rank could be elevated from a paying guest to that of an officially welcomed resident.

A lot of us have come here to retire, and lets be perfectly honest about this, to die to.

We have brought our chattels and our wealth, and even for those that have requested to be buried, it's hardly as if they are going to take their plot with them.

Anybody who has spent the last ten years here, kept their nose clean, has a financially secure back ground, invested in the country through land or a business, supports a family, should automatically be considered.

PR was originally given to foreign workers (mainly Chinese) coming to Thailand without quota, if they could prove they had a profession (coolie was acceptable) that would enable them to earn a living. The wording of the current 1979 Immigration Act still contains references to the need to be able to earn a living and the interpretation is still very much that PR is something for working foreigners who are able to provide some kind of benefit to Thai society through their work and payment of tax. Retirement and having Thai dependents are not mentioned in the Immigration Act as criteria for permanent residence. In fact they are not mentioned even as justifications for granting temporary leave to remain in the Kingdom. Given PR status to retirees would require amendments to the Immigration Act which is unlikely to be a government priority in the near future. So don't hold your breath. The best that could be hoped is a longer term retirement visa, say 10 years renewable, but that would come with the higher financial hurdles and would probably tempt them to raise the bar on 1 year retirement extensions at the same time.

The immigration law on permanent residence is actually quite reasonable, even though retirees might not agree with the requirement to be working in Thailand and to have paid 3 full years' worth of salaries tax. The problem is that the law has never been administered in a very fair and transparent way and, since 2006, has effectively not been administered at all.

[Darrel]

What are you crapping on about ?!

For anyone to say such a thing, especially hidden by forum anonymity, is just a waste of space. You have no authority, and present no data. So, .. get lost.

And your authority for telling others what to do comes from where? This place is full of opinions, and I gave mine just as you gave yours. The only difference being that I didnt tell anyone what to do, nor did I launch into any name-calling of anyone here.

Didn't notice any "data" being presented about these brilliant expats either. I doubt that there is any, as of course that post was just opinion without authority also. I suppose you didn't notice that.

[DoctorD]

"Permanent residency applicants, many of them from Phuket, represent the best and brightest of Thailand's expatriate community."

Not sure that's saying much. Most foreigners I've seen working here are pretty incompetent (I doubt anyone would employ them in the West, which I suppose is why they are here) and anyone retired here presumably doesnt need to bother about permanent residency anyway.

Maybe there's some other group of sparkling expats that I have yet to encounter.

This is really insulting. My husband and I have both applied for PR - he in 2006, I in 2007. We both teach computer engineering at a Thai university. I have PhD and he has a Masters degree. We are definitely contributing to Thai society. Furthermore, we want to stay and retire here. We have both made the effort to learn Thai. It's extremely frustrating that after nearly 8 years we still need to get new visas every year.

We didn't move here because nobody would employ us, but because we find Thai people and Thai values more conducive to a happy life. Also we wanted to be doing something other than helping U.S. corporations make more money.

I know other equally qualified individuals who are waiting for PR approval.

In fact, I don't think that anyone who wasn't serious about staying here, and had valid reasons for doing so, would go through the effort and spend the money to apply.

Sincerely,

Doctor D

[Darrel]

This is really insulting.

No, it isn't. To be insulting to you I would have had to say "all expats working in Thailand", which is not at all what I said or meant. If you choose to put yourself in the group I mentioned (working expats I have seen) that is your business, but as I have never met you at all you would be quite wrong to do so.

My husband and I have both applied for PR - he in 2006, I in 2007. We both teach computer engineering at a Thai university. I have PhD and he has a Masters degree. We are definitely contributing to Thai society. Furthermore, we want to stay and retire here. We have both made the effort to learn Thai. It's extremely frustrating that after nearly 8 years we still need to get new visas every year. ........ We didn't move here because nobody would employ us, but because we find Thai people and Thai values more conducive to a happy life.

I am similarly qualified but I dont think that makes me a jewel in the crown of farangs in Thailand, or anywhere else for that matter. It just makes me a bit above average. It certainly doesn't make me the "best and brightest of Thailand's expatriate community" which was what caught my eye in the original post and inspired my comments. It would be pretentious in the extreme to think that way.

Nearly 100% of my yearly expenditure goes into the Thai economy, and all of it is generated overseas rather than being recycled local money. This is a significant gain to Thailand. I dont expect any favours for this though, nor will I get any.

I have learnt a fair bit of Thai over the 30+ years I have been coming here, and I expect to be learning a lot more now that I am here permanently and can sign up for lessons. This however will be for my benefit not Thailand's, and I expect no favours for doing this either.

I want to stay and retire here, and indeed I am doing that right now. But that also is for my benefit.

LIke you, I want to live here because I like it here. But again that means nothing to Thailand. It is reasonable to suppose that most people wanting long visas want them because they like it here.

As for being frustrated about needing a visa: get used to it. Thailand doesnt want to give you permanent residency any more that it wants to give me a permanent retirement visa waiver. It will renew my permission to stay every year for exactly as long as it wants my money for, and it will give you the same every year for exactly as long as it wants your teaching skills for. When the day comes that it no longer needs either of us, we will get our marching orders and our respective paperwork will not be renewed. I accept that for the simple fact that it is. I have right of residence by birth in the UK (and by extension in the EU) and that is the only place where I cannot be prevented from living. You presumably have right of residence in your country of origin. Everything else is temporary and dependent on someone else's say-so.

[Arkady]

Good question but the reason for halting the process is a closely guarded secret of the Interior Ministry. The staff of the PR applications office at Immigration would like things to get back to normal, as they are sick of fielding the enquiries from people who applied from 2006 to 2009 and must be worried that their department could get axed, since they now have no real work to do at all. Nevertheless, they genuinely don't seem to have a clue what is going on at the ministry. Last year they gave a spurious sounding reason to some enquirers to attempt to explain why the window for applications failed to open at all. That was that there was a change of their department head that made it too inconvenient to open for 2010 applications with only a couple of weeks to go till year end. However, the real reason must have come from the top level of the Interior Ministry. The minister never proposed the PR quotas to the cabinet for publication in the Royal Gazette, a formality required by the Immigration Act.

In an opaque and unaccountable system like this anything could happen, including: 1) a sudden freeing of the logjam without any explanation of why it occurred in the first place; 2) a new ministerial regulation or even a new Immigration Act radically changing the ground rules for PR, probably making it much harder than it already was; 3) a new law eliminating the granting of any more PRs; 4) continuing of the current limbo status quo indefinitely. I guess that 3) is unlikely, since it would involve a lot of work in coming out with a new Immigration Act and would raise eyebrows from other countries, particularly ASEAN ones in view of AEC, that grant PR to Thai citizens. Personally I think 2) is the most likely but we will have to wait for a new minister after the elections.

Thanks Arkady. Those are very useful and insightful points.

Why has processing stopped? No-one seems to know.

The islands absolutely awash with long term expatriates, lifers some of them, all living on whim and a prayer of annual visa extensions, to the degree that during the low season perhaps there's more visalites than tourists.

The vast majourity will spend twenty, thirty perhaps even forty years on a temporary extension in a land where they have established a physical, emotional, and financial attachment and commitment.

So long that the notorious British Inland Revenue, might even concede that they had changed their domicile of birth to that of a domicile of choice.

A couple of years ago I made some enquires from the head of the Immigration Department in Phuket town, casually inquiring if they could provide me with some statistics, regarding how many applicants had actually been granted residency and Thai nationality during the past year. They were not forthcoming, or to put it all into context how many of them have ever been declared in the Phuket Gazette.

A combination of factors should be established over a period of time, to meet some kind of default criteria whereby ones rank could be elevated from a paying guest to that of an officially welcomed resident.

A lot of us have come here to retire, and lets be perfectly honest about this, to die to.

We have brought our chattels and our wealth, and even for those that have requested to be buried, it's hardly as if they are going to take their plot with them.

Anybody who has spent the last ten years here, kept their nose clean, has a financially secure back ground, invested in the country through land or a business, supports a family, should automatically be considered.

PR was originally given to foreign workers (mainly Chinese) coming to Thailand without quota, if they could prove they had a profession (coolie was acceptable) that would enable them to earn a living. The wording of the current 1979 Immigration Act still contains references to the need to be able to earn a living and the interpretation is still very much that PR is something for working foreigners who are able to provide some kind of benefit to Thai society through their work and payment of tax. Retirement and having Thai dependents are not mentioned in the Immigration Act as criteria for permanent residence. In fact they are not mentioned even as justifications for granting temporary leave to remain in the Kingdom. Given PR status to retirees would require amendments to the Immigration Act which is unlikely to be a government priority in the near future. So don't hold your breath. The best that could be hoped is a longer term retirement visa, say 10 years renewable, but that would come with the higher financial hurdles and would probably tempt them to raise the bar on 1 year retirement extensions at the same time.

The immigration law on permanent residence is actually quite reasonable, even though retirees might not agree with the requirement to be working in Thailand and to have paid 3 full years' worth of salaries tax. The problem is that the law has never been administered in a very fair and transparent way and, since 2006, has effectively not been administered at all.

[ericthai]

What are you crapping on about ?!

For anyone to say such a thing, especially hidden by forum anonymity, is just a waste of space. You have no authority, and present no data. So, .. get lost.

And your authority for telling others what to do comes from where? This place is full of opinions, and I gave mine just as you gave yours. The only difference being that I didnt tell anyone what to do, nor did I launch into any name-calling of anyone here.

Didn't notice any "data" being presented about these brilliant expats either. I doubt that there is any, as of course that post was just opinion without authority also. I suppose you didn't notice that.

What do yo do? Just sit in a bar? I assume you don't work here in any top professional field. For myself I have met some very good engineers in Thailand, some are here just for one project 6-12 months others 1-2 years, I have met some other ex-pats living here for a long time such as myself. I started a company here in Thailand about 5 years ago and in doing so I have also met a very good group of ex-pats owning their own companies which are not bars but companies such as engineering, power, marketing etc etc. To group all ex-pats as being the same is a very stupid comment, and I'm not name calling I'm saying your comment was stupid, opinion or not!

As for PR, my friend received is PR back in 2004, I was going to apply in 2007 after being in Thailand for 8 years and qualifying, but decided it was just not worth the time, effort and cost. My friend with all the fees cost him over 300,000B, hell i could re-new my work permit for 40+ years and still not reach the cost of PR, given there is no drastic changes in the cost to re-new a work permit and non-B visa. There are no real benefits other than not worrying about getting a new visa.

Edited April 1, 2011 by ericthai

[Darrel]

What do yo do? Just sit in a bar? I assume you don't work here in any top professional field. For myself I have met some very good engineers in Thailand, some are here just for one project 6-12 months others 1-2 years, I have met some other ex-pats living here for a long time such as myself. I started a company here in Thailand about 5 years ago and in doing so I have also met a very good group of ex-pats owning their own companies which are not bars but companies such as engineering, power, marketing etc etc. To group all ex-pats as being the same is a very stupid comment, and I'm not name calling I'm saying your comment was stupid, opinion or not!

No, I haven't set foot in any sort of bar in nearly 20 years. I don't like them, or the people one finds in them.

And no, I don't work here. I'm over 50 and retired, thank you. When I did work I was self-employed and I did well enough to be retired now with no worries about the future at all.

And you appear to have misread what I wrote. I didn't group all expats into anything at all. Go back, have another look and try again.

[ericthai]

What do yo do? Just sit in a bar? I assume you don't work here in any top professional field. For myself I have met some very good engineers in Thailand, some are here just for one project 6-12 months others 1-2 years, I have met some other ex-pats living here for a long time such as myself. I started a company here in Thailand about 5 years ago and in doing so I have also met a very good group of ex-pats owning their own companies which are not bars but companies such as engineering, power, marketing etc etc. To group all ex-pats as being the same is a very stupid comment, and I'm not name calling I'm saying your comment was stupid, opinion or not!

No, I haven't set foot in any sort of bar in nearly 20 years. I don't like them, or the people one finds in them.

And no, I don't work here. I'm over 50 and retired, thank you. When I did work I was self-employed and I did well enough to be retired now with no worries about the future at all.

And you appear to have misread what I wrote. I didn't group all expats into anything at all. Go back, have another look and try again.

Darrell sorry you are correct I realized that you did not group all expats into one category until after I posted. So if you don't go to bars and you don't work here then your interaction with expats is very limited. So you are making a comment on a very very small portion of the expat population. I know guys working for large companies such as GE capital, GM, etc transfered here from the USA and Australia who are top notch, and as stated before I have met many expats with their own companies who are pretty sharp.

Glad you did good for yourself and retied here. Still no plans to get a PR, just not worth it with little to no benefits, being from the USA I own my company 100% and have my work permit which is easy to get.

Anyway sorry for not clearly reading your post.

[stbkk]

What do yo do? Just sit in a bar? I assume you don't work here in any top professional field. For myself I have met some very good engineers in Thailand, some are here just for one project 6-12 months others 1-2 years, I have met some other ex-pats living here for a long time such as myself. I started a company here in Thailand about 5 years ago and in doing so I have also met a very good group of ex-pats owning their own companies which are not bars but companies such as engineering, power, marketing etc etc. To group all ex-pats as being the same is a very stupid comment, and I'm not name calling I'm saying your comment was stupid, opinion or not!

No, I haven't set foot in any sort of bar in nearly 20 years. I don't like them, or the people one finds in them.

And no, I don't work here. I'm over 50 and retired, thank you. When I did work I was self-employed and I did well enough to be retired now with no worries about the future at all.

And you appear to have misread what I wrote. I didn't group all expats into anything at all. Go back, have another look and try again.

Darrell sorry you are correct I realized that you did not group all expats into one category until after I posted. So if you don't go to bars and you don't work here then your interaction with expats is very limited. So you are making a comment on a very very small portion of the expat population. I know guys working for large companies such as GE capital, GM, etc transfered here from the USA and Australia who are top notch, and as stated before I have met many expats with their own companies who are pretty sharp.

Glad you did good for yourself and retied here. Still no plans to get a PR, just not worth it with little to no benefits, being from the USA I own my company 100% and have my work permit which is easy to get.

Anyway sorry for not clearly reading your post.

I've no interest in entering this particular argument, but have a few comments on the original article.

1. Obviously it's entirely up to the Thai government who they give permanent residence to, and/or what other visa types they allow - no issue with that at all.

2. However, having applied for PR in 2006 under the rules that were applicable at that time, I don't think its unreasonable for me to expect an answer one way or another by now?

3. I can then make a decision as to how best to plan my families future, whenever my employment/work permit extension of stay ends (as the rules stand currently, I could choose either the Thai wife/family or retirement routes, if I wanted to stay in Thailand). The only reason I applied for PR way back in 2006 was that it seemed like a good way to avoid having to keep up with and meet the continually changing requirements for either of the above options. Not the first time I've been completely wrong, and probably not the last either!

4. One final comment. I have been in Thailand long enough to understand that fairness and logic take a very second place to self-interest and the path of least resistance/effort in most things here. I'm therefore not at all surprised to see the big pile of 'pending' applications being still stuck in a corner somewhere. As has been speculated on several times in the above postings, if there is nothing in it for them, very few of the Thai 'political classes' seem to have any have any interest in doing anything, IMHO.

5. I lied about the last comment. Not that it means anything, but If my wife and I had decided to return to the UK early in 2006, which was one of our options at the time, she would have her UK passport by now. I never thought that I would be able to put a UK government agency above anybody else in terms of efficiency!

STBKK (although who knows for how much longer).

[hardy1943]

Agreed! This is our #1 reason for possibly leaving Thailand, our family unit is held hostage by immigration lack of any real permanent residency. My country will allow our entire family unit to immigrate and not treat us as third class citizens.

Very true,permanent residency I am all for it but giving up my USA citizenship NEVER

[reason1]

Will the 10 long term working expats who are not language teachers or working on a rig/oil please identify themselves?

[asiawatcher]

I can't understand why anyone wants to pay a lot of money and go through all the hassle to get Permanent residence. You still have to go to immigration once a year to get a re-entry permit which is only valid for one year. About 12 years ago, mine was cancelled because I could not get back to Thailand in time. I could have applied for a new one, instead I opted for a retirement visa which I have had since then. Getting a yearly extension for my retirement visa is far less hassle than going to the Income Tax department every year to submit an income tax return which obligatory for permanent residents. I had to get papers to prove that I had paid tax on my overseas income and submit to many questions and fill in forms etc.

Nowadays it seems that getting a retirement visa and re-entry takes only a few minutes. If you can afford to get a permanent residence, instead you could get a lawyer to get your retirement visa renewed and re-entry permit without going to immigration. He can do your 90 day reporting as well.

If you are not eligible for a retirement visa then you could apply for permanent residence.

That may be a waste of money because in time to come when many retirees get very old the law is bound to change for humanitarian reasons. I am sure they will be able to get long term retirement visas eventually.

It is a matter of perspective. I never bothered for all the reasons of compliance to their ridiculous requirements. I have sat on Non Imm B for the last 10 years as simpler than Non Imm O/marriage. I am married and have two great kids and I employ hundreds of Thai's but that is not good enough. I promote the country internationally and am responsible way back for increasing income to Thailand in my industry of 600M Baht in three years, none of which counts. If we have a PR document it gives no benefit other than at the airport and with an APEC card, it negates that and is far faster! So why bother to pay a lot of money, be tested by people with less intelligence and EQ? Thailand is what it is - basically grossly incompetent in so many ways, and we would not have it any other way! My home...

[reason1]

Thank you asiawatcher you are one so far out of 10 I hope for.

I agree with you I have had dozens of different visas over last 30 years in 7 countries SE Asia where I have lived or worked and I have yet to see value of PR

[Mario2008]

1 post with very negative view points deleted.

[lopburi3]

And one reply.

[Lite Beer]

And another negative post.

[ericthai]

Will the 10 long term working expats who are not language teachers or working on a rig/oil please identify themselves?

Where do you get there is only 10? I have been living here for 12 years and do not work as a teacher or in the oil industry, nor have I owned a bar. I have done some consulting for biomass power plants, plant automation etc. and now have a company with some domestic sales to but mostly exports. Im sure there is way more than 10...

[samran]

Will the 10 long term working expats who are not language teachers or working on a rig/oil please identify themselves?

Personally know at least 6 to 8 people either with PR or who natualised as Thai's.

And I don't even get out very much. Suspect there are a few around.

[Lite Beer]

Off Topic Post Deleted.

[reason1]

Will the 10 long term working expats who are not language teachers or working on a rig/oil please identify themselves?

Where do you get there is only 10? I have been living here for 12 years and do not work as a teacher or in the oil industry, nor have I owned a bar. I have done some consulting for biomass power plants, plant automation etc. and now have a company with some domestic sales to but mostly exports. Im sure there is way more than 10...

Just a bit of revenge for all the 1st April rubbish posted

[OZinBKK]

The option is not for there for a reason

[Arkady]

Thank you asiawatcher you are one so far out of 10 I hope for.

I agree with you I have had dozens of different visas over last 30 years in 7 countries SE Asia where I have lived or worked and I have yet to see value of PR

PR in Thailand in fact turns out to be extremely useful if you: 1) are on a WP and suddenly lose your job; 2) are on an extension based on marriage and suddenly lose your wife; 3) are on an extension based on retirement and the financial requirements are suddenly raised to realistic levels from the current token amounts. It also comes in handy, if you want to work for a small company, as no Thai employees are required and the WP is granted almost automatically by the Labour Ministry with no input from the spoilers at Immigration. The annual endorsements in the certificate of residence, if you wish to travel abroad, are a formality to make sure you are still in Thailand at least once a year and only require you to present your passport, alien book and certificate of residence - no bank statements, proof of income or employment or similar BS.

Of course, if you are only in Thailand to work and plan to move on as soon as the job comes to an end, then there is clearly no point. If you continue to stay an average of 4.3 years in each Asian country, you are unlikely to ever want or be eligible for PR. Anyway no need to worry about it, as it is currently unavailable and may well never again be available.

Edited April 4, 2011 by Arkady

[Arkady]

Will the 10 long term working expats who are not language teachers or working on a rig/oil please identify themselves?

Personally know at least 6 to 8 people either with PR or who natualised as Thai's.

And I don't even get out very much. Suspect there are a few around.

I know one guy who works on an oil rig and two or three English teachers. The other 100 or more long term expats I know in Thailand are all in business or retired from business. I can count at least 10 who have become naturalized Thais and 20 whom I know have PR. Many of those who don't have PR are now regretting that they put off the hassle and expense of applying when they would have got it easily.

[jazzbo]

from Post #58: " ... are on an extension based on retirement and the financial requirements are suddenly raised to realistic levels from the current token amounts." ... and what is the actual word used for 'Token amounts'' in the Thai-language original document?