Schengen Visa Repeatedly Refused Without Reason

[jrmaanda]

My wife's only sibling, to whom she and our children are very close indeed, came to stay with us in our home in France, where we live half the year as EU citizens, every year for six years until suddenly two years ago he was refused a tourist visa without explanation. When the same happened again last year, TLS Contact (who handles tourist visas for the French Consulate) having confirmed that his paperwork was in order and the refusal was nothing to do with them, it looked as though he must have got onto some kind of blacklist and there was no point in going through the bureaucratic hassle and expense again, unless we could find someone who would listen to our reasons for believing the refusal was unfair. Presumably they suspected he wanted to work illegally or something like that, and as he did not, had never overstayed his visa or broken any law whatsoever, we reckoned that if only someone would listen, we should be able to prove his "innocence."

It is impossible to get through to the French Consulate by telephone, so my wife went to Bangkok all the way from Chiangmai, where we live the rest of the time, to try to find someone in the French consulate who would see her. No one would, but eventually she was put on the telephone to a lady who gave her brother an appointment to be interviewed there on 14th March, and said it was essential that one of us went too. So she came home, and when the day came, I flew with her brother, again all the way from Chiangmai. We were on a list of people expected, otherwise we would not have been admitted, but when the Thai receptionist handed our mountain of new paperwork to the man evidently in charge, he categorically refused to see us for even five minutes, despite the receptionist returning twice to plead our case with him. Finally, he claimed that no one had ever offered us an interview, an absurd lie considering that if our only purpose had been to present an application, it should have gone to TLS rather than them. I therefore withdrew the application, as it seemed obvious from the man's attitude that there was no hope, and no point in throwing more money after the huge expenses already pointlessly incurred.

My wife can still see something of her brother here, but sadly our children cannot, as they go to boarding-schools in Europe, so my whole family is very upset. We cannot make an appeal on the basis that he is family, as Schengen does not count a full brother as family, so I am pleading for information as to anything I might do: is it really true, as it looks, that one bloody-minded man like that can arbitrarily screw up people's lives with out one being able to make any kind of appeal? Also, is there no one to whom one can complain about the rude and deceitful way we were treated, or are "diplomats" immune from criticism?

[timekeeper]

i had problems getting a Schengan for France for my then girlfriend (now wife), they were complete <deleted> and declined the application

so we went to the Spanish embassy who were a delight and granted it in 2 days

so, we flew to Zurich with Swiss air then Barcelona with Iberia, stayed five days, three at Universal studios in Salou, then caught the night train from Barcelona and were in Paris for breakfast

we were very happy to offer an outstretched middle finger to the french embassy in Bangkok from the top of the Eiffel Tower in Paris

it may not help you but she wanted to see Mickey Mouse in person and where there's a will, there's often a way.............

good luck to you!

[VisasPlus]

As I understand it the applicant has a right of appeal against the refusal. This seems to apply : -

France

Grounds for refusal are not communicated unless the refusal concerns a person who is a family member of a EU national or for whom an alert was issued in the Schengen Information System for the purposes of refusing entry. The applicant may appeal before the Commission de recours contre les décisions de refus de visa d'entrée en France, which is instituted by the Minister of Foreign Affairs. The appeal must be lodged within 2 months of the notification of the decision. The Commission may either reject the appeal or recommend to the Minister of Foreign Affairs to issue the visa.

If the Commission rejects the appeal, the person concerned may lodge a petition for annulment with the Council of State within 2 months from the notification of the decision. The petition shall explain the facts and the legal means involved in the case. The Council of State is not entitled to order the issue of the visa. In the event of annulment of the decision taken by the Commission de recours, the Foreign Minister will have to make a new decision upon the visa application. An appeal may only be lodged with the Council of State if, beforehand, petitioner has unsuccessfully filed a motion with the Commission de recours.

The first paragraph applies at this stage. The information comes from this link :

http://www.mediavisa.net/schengen-visa-appeal.php

[Krungbin]

Although you describe your problem quite accurately, you did not mention if you are a French citizen or not. You only state that you are EU "citizens".

But if you are French, I would advise you to write a nice and polite letter to the Ambassador himself to explain the situation...

Ambassador : M. Gildas LE LIDEC

Address : 35 Charoenkrung Road - Soi 36 - Bangkok 10500

Tel : [66] (0)26 57 51 00

Fax : [66] (0) 26 57 51 11

Internet : http://www.ambafrance-th.org/

Courriel : [email protected]

And/or to seek help with the representative of "L'Union des Français de l’Etranger":

President : Michel CALVET

PO Box 1325 Nana Post Office

10112 BANGKOK

Tel : 00 66 2 630 72 60

Fax : 00 66 2 630 72 53

E-mail : [email protected]

If you are not French, as suggested by Timekeeper, I would seek entry into Europe through another country...

[jrmaanda]

Many thanks for three helpful replies.

Timekeeper, your way of resolving the problem is very appealing, but I'm worried it wouuld not work in this case because we are trying to have my brother-in-law to stay in our own home as one of the family, not take him on a tour. Please tell me if I'm wrong, but to get the visa from the Spanish Embassy, didn't you have to give them evidence of hotel bookings for all her stay in France as well as Spain, and didn't the stay in France have to be resticted to not much longer than the stay in Spain?

VisasPlus's infomation on visa appeals is very useful food for thought. We may well try that, though under the present circumstances I have related, we would have to start all over again with a new application to get refused. Has anyone heard of anyone who has actually tried this for non-family (as they consider a brother) member? It would be very encouraging if there was any iindication it might really work.

Unfortunately, we are British citizens, not French, though we've had our home in France for seventeen years.

[glegolo]

british citizen??????? You do not belong to Schengen!!!!!!

is that the problem??????

Glegolo

[cme]

british citizen??????? You do not belong to Schengen!!!!!!

is that the problem??????

Glegolo

No, it shouldn't be, I am a Brit. living in Europe and have never had a problem getting a Schengen Visa for my former GF, now wife.

[thejcb]

Rules have become so much stricter. Once again it is the dishonest traveller and/or the terrorist that makes life so much more difficult for the true appplicant. beecause of al the terrorism and the asylum seekers, all the rules have been tightened so that even a true visitor has problems now. Nb. I found the spanish embassy in Bangkok to be very unhelpful. There was one individual that was particularly unpleasant. They are all so arrogant now, that is both Thai's and citizens of the relevant embassy. You have no chance, maybe your wife's son is now older (an adult) different rules start to apply. Just give it up until he is able to travel under his own circumstances. Eg, Owns property, has a job in Thailand, that sort of stuff.

Edited April 3, 2011 by thejcb

[bangkockney]

You could well consider making a fresh application to find out why his application is being refused.

The 'Community Code on Visas' states that a standard refusal notice must be given to failed applicants. This rule becomes effective April 5, 2011.

[puipuitom]

My Thai business partner once had a problem to get a Schengen visa to enter Netherlands.

Simply needed: return ticket, health ( travel ) insurance, money to pay the stay, or invitation where to stay. That;s IT.

Only.. she wanted to go via Dubai, from an exhibition there. As purchasing a ticket in Thailand Dubai-NL-Dubai is very expensive, she wanted to buy the additional part of the ticket in Dubai.

So, was refused in Bangkok at the Dutch embassy.

Result: as Dutch national, with Dutch company importing tropical foods I complained at the head of the Dutch visa department of our government.

Next day she got the invitation to come to the Dutch embassy in Wireless road to collect her visa.

[eurozhongguo]

Schengen visa rules have been tighetned up recenrly. France is a particular victim of illegal immigration, That is the reason why.

[alina]

Hi

First of all, you stated this application for your wifes son has been a cost to you of a "Huge Expense", I do not see this, where is this huge expense. I see that your wife has gone to Bangkok from Chiang Mai and you then went to Bangkok with the applicant. Two trips to Bangkok, I fail to see the huge expense ??

They have told you that the plaintiff has been blacklisted, someone has stuck their neck out and given you this information, this is against procedure and bordering on illegal.

I suggest you sit down with the plaintiff and ask him if he has been convicted or charged with a criminal offence or belongs to an unofficial politiical party. If he swears blind that this is not the case you must get a court order to check the vetting of the palintiff as someone with the same name and birth date has some kind of record.

The receptionist that pleaded your case would have beed reprimanded, doubt she works their anymore.:jap:

Edited April 3, 2011 by alina

[ChoakMyDee]

Hi

First of all, you stated this application for your wifes son has been a cost to you of a "Huge Expense", I do not see this, where is this huge expense. I see that your wife has gone to Bangkok from Chiang Mai and you then went to Bangkok with the applicant. Two trips to Bangkok, I fail to see the huge expense ??

They have told you that the plaintiff has been blacklisted, someone has stuck their neck out and given you this information, this is against procedure and bordering on illegal.

I suggest you sit down with the plaintiff and ask him if he has been convicted or charged with a criminal offence or belongs to an unofficial politiical party. If he swears blind that this is not the case you must get a court order to check the vetting of the palintiff as someone with the same name and birth date has some kind of record.

The receptionist that pleaded your case would have beed reprimanded, doubt she works their anymore.:jap:

What are you talking about? His wife's son? He never said anything about his wife's son. He's talking about his wife's brother. Don't you holier than though types even read the posts before you start chastising people?

[7by7]

Two posts removed.

Please stick to the topic and remember; if you have nothing to say; say nothing.

Thank you.

[maprao]

My Thai wife's only sibling ........who she is very close to......

Where is that book that Stephen Leather wrote? Need it as a source reference.

[jokinha]

Hi there!

When quote

"France ...where we live half the year as EU citizens, every year for six years until suddenly two years ago he was refused a tourist visa without explanation"

correct me if I'm wrong but half a year is six months right?? According to Schengen rules that apply for all Schengen states anyone entering any member state using a "Tourist visa", even a multiple one, on every period of six months, IS NOT allowed to stay for more than 90 days in a row in Schengen territory ...during those stays did your wifes' sibling overstayed that maximum period of stay?? and if so have you ever applied locally for a Visa extension, that may granted by the local police or immigration authorities ( under certain cimcunstances of course depending on the Schengen state itself) and that allows the holder to remain in the country for some extra time??? If NOT and if that person overstayed quite a few times his Visa ( you say he came over to France a few times ) MAYBE this is a good REASON for him to be BLACKLISTED on the SIS computers( Schengen Information System i.e a governmental database used by most Schengen states and Switzerland to maintain and distribute information on individuals entering, staying and leaving Schengen states) to which member states Embassy officers NORMALLY acess before issuing any visas...

If he is already black listed I really doubt any of the Schengen States will issue any VISA within a FIVE year period counting from date of blacklisting....

Good luck

[jrmaanda]

Thanks for the suggestion, Jokinha, but overstaying is really not the reason. My wife and I stay in France for nearly half the year without visas as EU citizens, but her brother has never stayed more than six weeks a timeand never overstayed his visa by a single day. I would have thought the fact that he never did over six years should have been good evidence that he was unlikely ever to do so if the French embassy was reasonable. I reiterate that I believe this is a case of of one bloody-minded official, which is why I originally asked if one has any recourse against such arbitrary use of power by a single bureaucrat. During the years that my brother-in-law's visa application was presented through the very agreeable and helpful consul in Chiangmai, he had no trouble at all, but I understand entirely new people have taken over from the officials he treated with.

Hi there!

When quote

"France ...where we live half the year as EU citizens, every year for six years until suddenly two years ago he was refused a tourist visa without explanation"

correct me if I'm wrong but half a year is six months right?? According to Schengen rules that apply for all Schengen states anyone entering any member state using a "Tourist visa", even a multiple one, on every period of six months, IS NOT allowed to stay for more than 90 days in a row in Schengen territory ...during those stays did your wifes' sibling overstayed that maximum period of stay?? and if so have you ever applied locally for a Visa extension, that may granted by the local police or immigration authorities ( under certain cimcunstances of course depending on the Schengen state itself) and that allows the holder to remain in the country for some extra time??? If NOT and if that person overstayed quite a few times his Visa ( you say he came over to France a few times ) MAYBE this is a good REASON for him to be BLACKLISTED on the SIS computers( Schengen Information System i.e a governmental database used by most Schengen states and Switzerland to maintain and distribute information on individuals entering, staying and leaving Schengen states) to which member states Embassy officers NORMALLY acess before issuing any visas...

If he is already black listed I really doubt any of the Schengen States will issue any VISA within a FIVE year period counting from date of blacklisting....

Good luck