Relocation To Thailand - Living Expenses Inquiry

[Escondido]

I will be traveling to Thailand later this year to for a bit of R&R, as well as to figure out what town I want to end up living. My first trip will be 1-2 months and I'll be spending the majority of my time up north. Based on my research Chiang Mai is at the top of my list. Some things about me that might help.

- Single, 31 years old male

- Work from home as an Internet Marketer (I work about 100+ hours a week although I'm thinking about going down to 60 hours when I move)

- Have a male Jack Russell Terrier I plan on bringing over

- Prefer to live in a good neighborhood with similar demographics (age, income, low crime, etc.). I'm not one to flaunt money, so I prefer hanging out with people who are modest.

- Reliable internet service in neighborhood is a must. I need the best internet that money can buy and I will move anywhere to make sure I can get this requirement.

- Monthly Range of 60,000-100,000 baht (of course, cheaper is always better in my humble opinion)

- 2-3 bedroom house, 1.5+ bath, yard with fence are my basic housing requirements. 1500-2000 square feet is more then enough space for just my dog and I.

- Close enough to city, so I can walk around and explore. This isn't very important, but would be nice. I prefer my privacy, so I have no problem moving farther out of town if the house meets my basic requirements.

I'd appreciate any feedback the locals might have about my approximate budget listed below, as well as any neighborhoods that might be recommended. I prefer to work with other business people, so if somebody has recommendations for a local real estate agents who speak English/Thai please feel free to let me know. I assume they work on commission although I'm not sure entirely sure how flexible pricing is when it comes to rentals/commissions. Thus far, my approximate budget is as follows.

Baht US Requirements

House 15000 $500 1500 square feet

Electricity 2000 $67 air con/fans/computers, television,etc.

Water 1000 $33 estimated monthly average (does not include drinking water)

Gas 1500 $50 cooking

Telephone 3000 $100 estimated local telephone line/iphone

Internet 1500 $50

Food 4500 $150

Laundry unknown unknown need pricing on outsourcing laundry or doing in house

Car Rental 10000 $333 monthly car rental estimate

Health Insurance 2500 $83 buy annual-save money

Flight TBD TBD TBD

Motorcyle TBD TBD TBD

Car TBD TBD TBD

Misc 12000 $400 flexible

Monthly Total 53000 Baht or $1767 US

I apologize about the format of this post. There seems to be some discrepancies between the text editor and the final version. Thank your for your time and consideration.

Edited April 1, 2011 by Escondido

[New2LOS]

Don't wish to be a damper to your plans, but:

What type of visa do you plan to apply for? You are too young for a retirement visa (must be 50+).

Reliable internet? That's a real challenge here.

You can not work here (in Thailand) without a work permit.

Edited April 1, 2011 by New2LOS

[WinnieTheKhwai]

You can get good internet. If crucial I would apply for two separate connections; they're not expensive.

Work permit: I would personally not worry about it if your employer is outside Thailand, your customers are outside Thailand and you make money outside of Thailand.

Visa: That's indeed a point of attention.

[CPT]

Everybody has different consumption / spending habits so I can only answer using my own experience. Your results and those of other members might very well be different.

Your rental budget looks good.

If you are going to be using AC I would suggest increasing your electrical budget. 3000 would be more realistic and a good, conservative number for planning purposes would be more like 3500-4000. Having said that, I only use AC to get to sleep during the hot season and my electric bill is typically under 1000 baht so it all depends on your usage habits. I know other foreigners who easily spend 3000 baht a month.

You would be hard-pressed to use half as much water (500 bht) as you budgeted for.

You are unlikely, even cooking every meal at home, to use that much gas unless, perhaps, you use a gas oven a great deal. I have an electric oven for occasional use and cook a fair bit and spend slightly less per annum than your monthly budget of 1500.

Internet: 2 lines seems to be standard for those who rely on it for income. Pricing available online.

You might need to increase your food budget if you intend to eat much Western food. It is cheap to eat Thai food but Western food, even just the ingredients to cook it yourself, demand something of a premium. Even eating Thai food, there is a transition period when you are learning where to buy what and what a reasonable price is that will likely make your food budget a bit tight in the first months. For food alone (no beverages etc.) 2500 a month is certainly doable but twice that is far more comfortable. If restaurant trips are coming out of your "flexible spending" account then your number is likely right on in the longer run.

Not sure about health insurance. Medical care is very inexpensive here and a years worth of premiums like you listed (30,000) could easily cover a hospital stay. Since you are 31, if you are healthy and have savings, I would consider forgoing the insurance and simply pay out of pocket.

Motorcycles- If you are talking about the moped variety they cost around 40-65k new and I think they generally can be financed for 2 years (?) at very low interest rates. For larger bikes still under 250cc prices start from around 75k up. Anything over 250cc costs considerably more. The small mopeds (called motorbikes here) are probably most convenient when driving in traffic and compliments a car or pickup nicely. Fuel costs around 500 baht/month for me (buying the cheap stuff) and maintenance costs are negligible.

I hope this was somewhat helpful. Like I said, everybody's experience will be different. Taken as a whole, your 53,000 baht number should make for a rather comfortable lifestyle.

[assistthai]

Internet is cheap you can get 6mb for 590 baht per month, your other bills are within line.

In relation to a visa, a business visa would be your best option if you intend to work here you can always form a company and obtain your work permit that way.

It is always advisable to go the legal route, many will say its not needed but if you get caught the costs compared to what it would cost to do legally are huge.

[Asmerom]

Over one year my single elderly male expenses,living in a pleasant three bedroom house in a well run, out-of-town estate (15kms. !) work out as follows :

Baht per Month :

Rent ;10,500

TV : 1550

Internet : 520

Water : 150

Electric : 500

Gas : 100 One cylinder costs 300baht and seems to last forever.

Motor Bike Rent : 2,500 -- fuel extra @40baht a litre.

Car Rent : I think 10,000 is on the low side but searching around may yield more favourable results than the big guys.

I reckon a budget of 53,000 baht per month living in town will allow you a comfortable life style but by no means luxurious. You can't spread your wings on that. You have'nt included any allowance for entertainment in all its various forms and that item might be the costliest of all. After all you're only working maybe 60 hours a week and its unlikely you'll be content reclining in an armchair reading War and Peace

Edited April 1, 2011 by Asmerom

[Asmerom]

ESCONDIDO : " Monthly Range of 60,000-100,000 baht"

Reading your post again I can't make out what these figures refer to

[WtFugarwe]

A typical Thai service worker's monthly salary is 6000. A frugal farang can live on 30,000 baht/mo. On this forum there will be howls from those who say they can do it for less or it can't be done. If your monthly disposable income is 60,000-100,000 you will live large. What kind of visa do you plan to apply for?

[newbie001]

Your food budget will be double what you plan. Even eating Thaifood every single meal will run a minimum of 100 a day, add fruit a few bottles of water and what not a minimum of plain eating for 150 a day. So that is more like 4,500 a month eating simple. Not to mention your dog will cost another 1000 a month.

Your internet if you want dependable non busy traffic you will need to spend more like 3000 baht a month, but for average good download speed 1,500 baht is ok.

The rest of your budget seems about right. You could do it for half as much but only if you know the right people and the right places. But for convenience sake your higher budget is better. Don't have to spend days searching and looking and haggling.

I always get a chuckle about how people claim thai workers get paid 6k and we could live comfortably off 30k. Have you actually seen the slums those people live in. Come on no middle class person could live like that. Middle class Thais make at least 30 and the upper middles make a lot more than that. Think like this there are 4 private schools in CM that charge at least 5k baht a month for school each kid the international schools and the English programs are even more than that. There are over 20,000 kids at these four private schools so there are plenty of people living off a lot more than 6k a month. Stop comparing low income poverty lifestyle to what westerners are accustomed to. If you want to live like a dirt farmer than go ahead but most westerners couldn't do it for the long run.

50K + for what his needs are would do him well less than that if you know the language and the area.

[Schooner]

You didn't budget for a girl/boy friend. I don't see how anyone could live here without wanting one and the average cost of that will set you back about 10,000/mo. A hot, well educated one will be much more. If you find the right one you'll be happy to pay it.

Your biggest problem will be the visa/ work permit.

[silverhawk_usa]

The way I read your original post, it looks like you have never been to Thailand before. If this is true, you should first just come here and spend some time looking around the area. I have a feeling that you really have no idea of what living here is actually like. Don't worry so much about all the figures until you do more than just read other's experiences and suggestions.

This is in no way a slam at your idea. I did as you are suggesting and came here for vacations for a few years to get the lay of the land before retirement. I chose Chiang Mai and I have been here since 2002. I like it, others don't. Come check it out first and then re-do your budget after seeing how you really wish to live.

[Escondido]

A typical Thai service worker's monthly salary is 6000. A frugal farang can live on 30,000 baht/mo. On this forum there will be howls from those who say they can do it for less or it can't be done. If your monthly disposable income is 60,000-100,000 you will live large. What kind of visa do you plan to apply for?

The research I have conducted has indicated that there are a few types of visa's I can obtain each with pros/cons. A double entry tourist visa seems to be the best course of action initially, however, the type B multiple entry might be the way to go for the long term. I still need to do some research about the legalities/taxes of what direction to go. I own the companies I work for and all of my clients are in the United States. I have no desire to target the Thailand population as another revenue source, but that might change down the road if an opportunity presents itself and I get a good ROI.

Your food budget will be double what you plan. Even eating Thaifood every single meal will run a minimum of 100 a day, add fruit a few bottles of water and what not a minimum of plain eating for 150 a day. So that is more like 4,500 a month eating simple. Not to mention your dog will cost another 1000 a month.

Your internet if you want dependable non busy traffic you will need to spend more like 3000 baht a month, but for average good download speed 1,500 baht is ok.

The rest of your budget seems about right. You could do it for half as much but only if you know the right people and the right places. But for convenience sake your higher budget is better. Don't have to spend days searching and looking and haggling.

I always get a chuckle about how people claim thai workers get paid 6k and we could live comfortably off 30k. Have you actually seen the slums those people live in. Come on no middle class person could live like that. Middle class Thais make at least 30 and the upper middles make a lot more than that. Think like this there are 4 private schools in CM that charge at least 5k baht a month for school each kid the international schools and the English programs are even more than that. There are over 20,000 kids at these four private schools so there are plenty of people living off a lot more than 6k a month. Stop comparing low income poverty lifestyle to what westerners are accustomed to. If you want to live like a dirt farmer than go ahead but most westerners couldn't do it for the long run.

50K + for what his needs are would do him well less than that if you know the language and the area.

Thanks for the feedback. What is considered middle to upper class income in Chiang Mai?

You didn't budget for a girl/boy friend. I don't see how anyone could live here without wanting one and the average cost of that will set you back about 10,000/mo. A hot, well educated one will be much more. If you find the right one you'll be happy to pay it.

Your biggest problem will be the visa/ work permit.

Most definitely that would be a girlfriend at some point, although I very much enjoy being single and not tied down.

[TheFishman1]

So If I understand this with a girlfriend 50,ooo.-60,ooo. I should be O.K. I am planning around the end of April.I am 50 and been retired for 4 yrs. now I like reading about the maybe new law 50 and over can't get married LOL

[heybruce]

"- Reliable internet service in neighborhood is a must. I need the best internet that money can buy and I will move anywhere to make sure I can get this requirement."

What do you mean by "reliable internet service"? Keep in mind that Thailand ISP's are about ten years behind the ISP's in the best connected countries. If reliable means connected most of the time and download speeds in the tens of kbs during the day, and maybe hundreds of kbs in the very early morning hours, you'll be OK, though you'll still have to learn which ISP's work best in your neighborhood. If reliable means connected 99.99% of the time with blazing download/upload speeds, you're out of luck in Thailand.

[thaitot]

Escondido, I lived their for twenty five years. The biggest variables will be girls entertainment and beer.

Everything else is close food minimum 100- 150 baht per day

1500- 2000 us per month and you will be fine.

[sfokevin]

There are a couple Law firms that advertise here that can arrange a one year business visa from a US consul for about $5-600USD before you come here (This will not be useful for your business/work here - But as another poster said your customers are not in Thailand so the working thing is pretty much under the radar) (PM me for more info about visa)

For internet I have 3BB 6mb for 590 baht and it works fine but I am right in the city inside the Moat. I also Have an IPhone 4 and True Unlimited G3 internet for 599 Baht a month... This can easily be tethered to my MacBook or Windows laptop and the speed is great (Again I am right in the city)

You have 3,000 baht for a local phone line - those are not really needed or used here

[Semper]

A typical Thai service worker's monthly salary is 6000. A frugal farang can live on 30,000 baht/mo. On this forum there will be howls from those who say they can do it for less or it can't be done. If your monthly disposable income is 60,000-100,000 you will live large. What kind of visa do you plan to apply for?

The research I have conducted has indicated that there are a few types of visa's I can obtain each with pros/cons. A double entry tourist visa seems to be the best course of action initially, however, the type B multiple entry might be the way to go for the long term. I still need to do some research about the legalities/taxes of what direction to go. I own the companies I work for and all of my clients are in the United States. I have no desire to target the Thailand population as another revenue source, but that might change down the road if an opportunity presents itself and I get a good ROI.

Your food budget will be double what you plan. Even eating Thaifood every single meal will run a minimum of 100 a day, add fruit a few bottles of water and what not a minimum of plain eating for 150 a day. So that is more like 4,500 a month eating simple. Not to mention your dog will cost another 1000 a month.

Your internet if you want dependable non busy traffic you will need to spend more like 3000 baht a month, but for average good download speed 1,500 baht is ok.

The rest of your budget seems about right. You could do it for half as much but only if you know the right people and the right places. But for convenience sake your higher budget is better. Don't have to spend days searching and looking and haggling.

I always get a chuckle about how people claim thai workers get paid 6k and we could live comfortably off 30k. Have you actually seen the slums those people live in. Come on no middle class person could live like that. Middle class Thais make at least 30 and the upper middles make a lot more than that. Think like this there are 4 private schools in CM that charge at least 5k baht a month for school each kid the international schools and the English programs are even more than that. There are over 20,000 kids at these four private schools so there are plenty of people living off a lot more than 6k a month. Stop comparing low income poverty lifestyle to what westerners are accustomed to. If you want to live like a dirt farmer than go ahead but most westerners couldn't do it for the long run.

50K + for what his needs are would do him well less than that if you know the language and the area.

Thanks for the feedback. What is considered middle to upper class income in Chiang Mai?

You didn't budget for a girl/boy friend. I don't see how anyone could live here without wanting one and the average cost of that will set you back about 10,000/mo. A hot, well educated one will be much more. If you find the right one you'll be happy to pay it.

Your biggest problem will be the visa/ work permit.

Most definitely that would be a girlfriend at some point, although I very much enjoy being single and not tied down.

Yes, renting one on a daily basis is the way to doit.

[TacoBoy]

Main thigs to consider are living in a place where you can get a direct phone line so you can have ADSL. So house or apartment/condo rent, you will need to be abel to connect and not depend on wi fi.

Thailand still does not have 3G.

You could have a professional dedicated server line connected. Don't know the costs, but figure to be maybe $250 a month or more.

If you can live with pretty good service most of the time, then the 6MB lines are usually consistant with TOT phone company. But remember the line is shared, and speeds sometimes depend on how many people on your particular line are on at a certain time.

Weekends and early evenings and early mornings are susually a little bit slower.

As an example, I am usually streaming live tv from the usa and listening to radio and have a local tv box connected to the router.

Most times the tv streams without skipping, but on occassion it does. Radio often is not interupted, and my tv box never has any connection problems unless the whole system goes down (rare, but happens about once a week for an hour or two).

As others have said, you need to come check things out for yourself.

Housing is way cheaper than back home, as is electric and water.

No Gas lines, only LPG tanks for cooking or electric cooking.

Depending on your lifestyle and needs, you could live decent from about 20,000 up, plus food, clothing, and entertainment.

In Chiang Rai (I know Chiang Mai is a little more expensive for rent) for example I pay 5,000 for a nice (unfurnished) 3 bedroom 2 bath home with a yard and covered parking in a middle/high class security neighborhood. Furniture is mostly inexpensive here.

Electric runs from 1,500 to 2,000 with all the lights, computer, TV, A/C, space heater (yes it can get cool in the wintertime nites).

Water is about 150 and home association fees about 300 (includes trash pick up).

Internet and phone is 690 TOT telephone.

The rest of expences are for transportation, food and misc.

As for bringing your dog......... Probably more hastle than it is worth for the stress and problems bringing a pet into country and if you go home problems bringing you pet into the USA

Edited April 2, 2011 by TacoBoy

[sfokevin]

True has 3G!

[AJackson]

Double the electricity unless you're not going to use the a/c.

Forget about the phone line. Pay as you go for a cell phone. If you have an iphone you can get unlimited 3G for 590 or 690.

Basic internet can be had for 700 bt, but if you need good interent you have to go w/ 3BB premier for 2800/month. I have it and it's usually very good.

I can't see you renting a car for 10K/month, plus driving here is brutal. Just buy a bike. you can rent an automatic for 3500/month

Double the food budget unless you're eating 30bt street food every day.

By myself I could live well for 50K/month. WIth a gf I seem to spend closer to 100K even though our budget is 60K.

[matador11021965]

Hi

I want to ask you about chiang rai,

everybody is talking about chiang mai but how is live in your place how is chiang rai are there lots of entertainment and restaurants and how is the village you live in

please inform me about the life you living compared to chiang mai

please do it through a personal mail

thx

peter

Main thigs to consider are living in a place where you can get a direct phone line so you can have ADSL. So house or apartment/condo rent, you will need to be abel to connect and not depend on wi fi.

Thailand still does not have 3G.

You could have a professional dedicated server line connected. Don't know the costs, but figure to be maybe $250 a month or more.

If you can live with pretty good service most of the time, then the 6MB lines are usually consistant with TOT phone company. But remember the line is shared, and speeds sometimes depend on how many people on your particular line are on at a certain time.

Weekends and early evenings and early mornings are susually a little bit slower.

As an example, I am usually streaming live tv from the usa and listening to radio and have a local tv box connected to the router.

Most times the tv streams without skipping, but on occassion it does. Radio often is not interupted, and my tv box never has any connection problems unless the whole system goes down (rare, but happens about once a week for an hour or two).

As others have said, you need to come check things out for yourself.

Housing is way cheaper than back home, as is electric and water.

No Gas lines, only LPG tanks for cooking or electric cooking.

Depending on your lifestyle and needs, you could live decent from about 20,000 up, plus food, clothing, and entertainment.

In Chiang Rai (I know Chiang Mai is a little more expensive for rent) for example I pay 5,000 for a nice (unfurnished) 3 bedroom 2 bath home with a yard and covered parking in a middle/high class security neighborhood. Furniture is mostly inexpensive here.

Electric runs from 1,500 to 2,000 with all the lights, computer, TV, A/C, space heater (yes it can get cool in the wintertime nites).

Water is about 150 and home association fees about 300 (includes trash pick up).

Internet and phone is 690 TOT telephone.

The rest of expences are for transportation, food and misc.

As for bringing your dog......... Probably more hastle than it is worth for the stress and problems bringing a pet into country and if you go home problems bringing you pet into the USA

[TacoBoy]

Double the electricity unless you're not going to use the a/c.

Forget about the phone line. Pay as you go for a cell phone. If you have an iphone you can get unlimited 3G for 590 or 690.

Basic internet can be had for 700 bt, but if you need good interent you have to go w/ 3BB premier for 2800/month. I have it and it's usually very good.

I can't see you renting a car for 10K/month, plus driving here is brutal. Just buy a bike. you can rent an automatic for 3500/month

Double the food budget unless you're eating 30bt street food every day.

By myself I could live well for 50K/month. WIth a gf I seem to spend closer to 100K even though our budget is 60K.

Having electric service directly with and paying directly to EGAT for electricity is lot cheaper than paying a landloard their expected UP'd price. Common scam and rip off. An extra thousand or so from each tenant is not bad for no investment on their part.

Always ask to see the EGAT Bill and confirm it is for your address. If they refuse or say something differnet, you are being scammed.

Hapens all the time with apartments, condo's and rental properties where the landloard supplies you with their version of the bill which is often double or tripple the EGAT price.

The original poster needs a solid internet connection to do business. Doubt just i phone or similar would suffice the poster's needs.

Motorbikes are fine when not raining but can also be dangerous. If the OP or others want or need a car, their business.

Daily car rentals can be had for about 1,000 per day as needed also.

Monthly rates are many times acceptable given the cost of financing (a thai can finance, not a expat) and buying here in thailand.

[bangkokcitylimits]

You didn't budget for a girl/boy friend. I don't see how anyone could live here without wanting one and the average cost of that will set you back about 10,000/mo. A hot, well educated one will be much more. If you find the right one you'll be happy to pay it.

Your biggest problem will be the visa/ work permit.

Visa is not a problem at all, I know a local lawyer who gets you a non immigrant year visa for 35,000 baht (and extensible) and there seems to be cheaper version as well.

Just be aware of the rules very well but no reason to worry about your stay.

[uptheos]

By myself I could live well for 50K/month. WIth a gf I seem to spend closer to 100K even though our budget is 60K.

Does she like gold by any chance?

[newbie001]

"Monthly rates are many times acceptable given the cost of financing (a thai can finance, not a expat) and buying here in thailand."

That is not true at all. I know of several foreign nationals that live here that are not married to Thai citizens and they all have cars that they financed through banks here.

I definitely would look into buying your own car if you plan on staying a few years, but if it is just for a few months up to one year buying a second hand vehicle is quite reasonable and in the long run you will save a lot.

FYI there are plenty of women that do not require you to pay for them. The advice given seems to be coming from those that are slightly older. 30 year olds don't need to go to the lowclass houses of ill repute that some of the posters here talk about.

But you are better off being single anyway.

[BKK03]

You might want to consider that "dog" is on the menu here in Chiangmai and most of the North.

[TacoBoy]

What Bus did Newbie just get off of

what a crock and moutfull from that poster.

Guaranteed, you can not finance here in thailand and not have a thai to sign the finance note.

Also the crap about not having to pay a girl ha ha ha ha ha he he he he !

Thai girls do not need money same as foreign women

Give us a frikkin break............................................. The Yolks on Newbie

Yea, we have all been there and done that before Newbie was ever born

right, Money for nothing and the chicks for free Right dude ! Who TF you think your trying to fool ? Only yourself.

PSSS... seen many a young dude paying bar and frothing at the mouth over some ugly hag in a bar. Plus all the local fights over girls.... haaa Hummm give us a break. Think we were born yesterday

Edited April 2, 2011 by TacoBoy

[farangajarn]

Sorry but I must disagree a bit. I personally financed my new truck via Toyota dealership on Hang Dong Road. No Thai signer on any paper. My best buddies are a farang American who married a great Thai lady. No payment of any kind made at any point before marriage and she actually did a great of ensuring they saved well for the nice retirement they are now enjoying. So I guess it would say its not about being a newbie or an old hand, more like how you manage your life here.

[newbie001]

Taco boy.

There are plenty of men that live in Thailand that don't associate with low class gold digging women. There are even more that don't associate with pros.

I know of many younger men that have girlfriends or wives that make a decent wage and don't need nor want someone to take care of them. Unfortunately most foreigners here look for rural type women from some local village that need money. But there are many, many middle and upper middle class women that come from educated families that have a good income that will often pick up the tab for a date or at least split it. Some actually don't like when the guy pays.

your experiences are definitely different than mine. And no I don't have any allegories about young men frothing at low class whore since I have never been to a bar in my life, nor do I associate with people that chase whores.

I went to university here and I met a lot of nice women but 99% of the foreigners here are not looking for that. But for people of some kind of class that come here they can find women from equal backgrounds. They just aren't found where you and many others are looking. If the OP wants to whorechase and become a bottom feeder than that is his right. But I was just writing that they are many other options for men if they want something substantial from women of their equal or better.

As for financing automobiles, you know it all so everyone that I know that did it is either lying or actually Thai. You win that debate. Thanks for your helping this Newbie.

FYI foreigners can get credit cards, financing, and even cosign their wife's mortgage (have to deposit 50% though) Things have changed in the past 10+ consecutive years that I have lived here.

And no Dog is not on the menu. Thais have never had a tradition of eating dog. Yes, some of the local hill tribes might but it is not a part of the Thai diet. Korea and some parts of China still have restaurants but I have never seen one in Thailand ever.

[amexpat]

...I have never been to a bar in my life,

Speaks volumes. No doubt you avoid all places that you think might be frequented by your inferiors.