Cost Of A New Electricity Connection To A House

[haveaniceday]

I can not find anything in the search here unfortunantly, not looking for exact price of course, but a rough idea of what people paid to have a electrical connection installed to a new property. I am guessing, prob looking some 80m of line to be run to the house.

[timekeeper]

mine was pretty close to the existing post but it was 16.000 baht for install, deposit and meter

[Beetlejuice]

mine was pretty close to the existing post but it was 16.000 baht for install, deposit and meter

My connection about 20 metres plus meter was 1250 baht 2 years ago.

[mojaco]

One month ago in a small town in the Kamphaeng Phet province, we put in a pretty powerful transformer (maybe 5 times more power than a house would need.) The installation fee was 1,200 Baht and the deposit for the two phase transformer was 20,000 Baht. I would think that if you could simply tap off of an existing transformer in the area that all you would need would be the installation fee. But if you don't have a transformer anywhere near, you would probably also need a deposit . . . but surely MUCH less than the 20,000 Baht. It would help to take a "significant person" from the area you live in to go talk to the electrical authority. Could save some cost.

edit to add: The electric authority also said the deposit for a single phase was 10,000 Baht and a three phase was 30,000 Baht

Edited April 3, 2011 by mojaco

[haveaniceday]

OK, some of the replies are a little over my head, single phase, 3 phase, I admit, I dunno what is needed .

It is for a house with about 8 aircons, pool pump and just house stuff. (most AC will be small for bedrooms, study etc, couple of big boys in the living room area.

Hot water system will be run on gas hot water.

There are other houses near by, the house would be up to 80m from the current cables along the road.

thankyou

[mojaco]

OK, some of the replies are a little over my head, single phase, 3 phase, I admit, I dunno what is needed .

It is for a house with about 8 aircons, pool pump and just house stuff. (most AC will be small for bedrooms, study etc, couple of big boys in the living room area.

Hot water system will be run on gas hot water.

There are other houses near by, the house would be up to 80m from the current cables along the road.

thankyou

The motors (pool pump) will need two phase as will the air conditioners I think. And the transformer would have to be sized as if all eight air conditioners, pool pump, and some kitchen things (refrig, toaster, etc) were being used at the same time. Otherwise you might blow the fuse on the transformer if the house main breaker fails and be without power until the electric authority can come out and replace the fuse. You will need a pretty large transformer. Just make a list of the electrical things you have and go to the local government electric authority. They should be able to estimate what size transformer you need. Or spend 500-1,000 Baht and have an electrician (or electrical engineer) create a list of expected loads. I would guess you are going to need somewhere in the neighborhood of a 100 amp two-phase transformer (equivalent to what a modern home in the USA would need.) That's going to probably cost you the 20,000 Baht (most of which is deposit.)

It's easy for someone to make such a load list and total them up since you already know what you are building.

Edited April 3, 2011 by mojaco

[longball53098]

Mods need to move this post over to the DIY forum and someone with proper knowledge and info should provide the answers.

Meter sizes and pricing can be found at the local MEA/PEA office usually posted on a wall for all to see.

[haveaniceday]

Thanks mojaco to the reply

[kamalabob2]

Certainly the OP can simply take his "electric plan" from his approved building permit paperwork to the appropriate PEA office. They will do a calculation on what the PEA determines is your minimum electric meter size and if you must have 3 phase installed. At the PEA office will be a large sign on the wall showing the exact prices of "new electric service" with all five fees posted. But probably in Thai. There is a labor charge, a materials charge, a charge for the actual meter, a REFUNDABLE deposit, etc. It is all listed on the wall. For a simple 5 amp "village" service is is very affordable, even a sensible size home with a 15 amp single phase service it is reasonable, but once you have a "load factor" that demands 3 phase service for your home then the smiles stop on your part.

It gets a tad complicated if YOU provide your own 3 phase TRANSFORMER and who does the labor for any mandated transformer. If your "projected possible peak" electric demand is over a certain amount, they the PEA for safety reasons will demand you have certain size cable, meters and perhaps 3 phase electricity. To make matters more "fun" if you have three phase required then you have to have a much larger specific size and height of electric poles installed. They look at the size of your home, count up the a/c units, number of lights, sockets, etc on your approved electric plan that was submitted for your "permission to build" plan and they come up with a reasonable requirement of what you as a customer of the PEA need to provide on your part. You can't have a home with 8 a/c units and expect them to approve a 15 amp single phase meter. Fires often happen in Thailand in homes with too small meters, incorrect undersized wiring and after the fact more electric usage items such as appliances and a/c units were added, well after the first small meter was installed.

To be candid I was shocked at what we were required to install, but we saved significant money by having a licensed large electrical contractor handle the 3 phase transformer and all the poles, cables and host of other items one needs to purchase for 3 phase electric service. In our specific case we built a home on a private shared access road, but NOT on a government road. No existing PEA owned poles or wires were near our home. We were five pole lengths from the nearest PEA pole where fortunately they did have 3 phase wires to connect with.

"Next house" will not be so large and will not have as many a/c units. That 300,000 baht or so for getting electricity was no fun to pay. I have personally seen how an expat lived in a small two bedroom home near our former rental home and because he had two water pumps, two a/c units and an oven he "blew out" the electric meter at the street and caused electric troubles for dozens of other PEA customers. We had a 10 amp meter in our rental home, he had a 5 amp meter at his home which was originally built as a rental, so he never had to show any plans when he obtained PEA service in his girlfriends name.

The PEA service can 100% be in your name, as long as the building permit is in your name.

[Delight]

OK, some of the replies are a little over my head, single phase, 3 phase, I admit, I dunno what is needed .

It is for a house with about 8 aircons, pool pump and just house stuff. (most AC will be small for bedrooms, study etc, couple of big boys in the living room area.

Hot water system will be run on gas hot water.

There are other houses near by, the house would be up to 80m from the current cables along the road.

thankyou

Just a little technical explanation.

Electricity is produced at a power station by a machine known as a alternator. This machine produces 3 independent electrical supplies -These supplies are 'out of phase ' with each other -hence the term -3 Phase supply.

For reasons practical they leave the power station at a very high voltage

Supply of electicity can be compared with the supply of water .ie the higher the pressure (voltage) the higher the flow (amp age).

This voltage is reduced in stages using a series of step -down Transformers. The final step down transformer is near your house-to 240v

VOLTS X AMPS = WATTS or moving that about

WATTS divided BY VOLTS= AMPS

Wattage is a measure of electrical power.

So for example the water heater in my condo demands 6000 watts (6 Kw)

applying the aforementioned formula

6000/240 = 25 AMPS

For that device a 25 amp is required Typically a 30 amp supply is provided via a

distribution board. Usually referred to as a circuit breaker.The device simply takes in a feed capable of suppliyng your energy needs total and splits into several independent circuits . 30 amps circuits are required for higher power devices(water heaters- cookers and air con. 15 (I think) amp circuits are used for lighting and general power outlets. If the stated amp age is exceeded -then that particular circuit will 'Trip -Out'

With a high domestic consumer such a yourself .The 2 of the available 3 independent supplies are brought into your house. This is a form of back -up. If one phase goes down -then the second is available to you.

No device with require that both phases are used at the same time.

I am not clear about the purpose of the deposit. I suspect that it is there as deposit in case your transformer fails. Other say the deposit is essentially a bond to cover unpaid bills.

Perhaps somebody can clarify

Edited April 4, 2011 by Delight

[InterestedObserver]

The installation fee was 1,200 Baht and the deposit for the two phase transformer was 20,000 Baht. The electric authority also said the deposit for a single phase was 10,000 Baht and a three phase was 30,000 Baht.

Ok I'll bite, as used in this context what is a two-phase transformer?

[Delight]

The installation fee was 1,200 Baht and the deposit for the two phase transformer was 20,000 Baht. The electric authority also said the deposit for a single phase was 10,000 Baht and a three phase was 30,000 Baht.

Ok I'll bite, as used in this context what is a two-phase transformer?

Are we going off -topic or what!

The best man to explain this is one Michael Faraday . Regrettably he died (in 1867) So I 'll have to do.

A 2 Phase transformer takes 2 of the 3 electrical supplies available (see my earlier post) and transforms them -High volts to Lower volts.It is essentially a single phase transformer -twice

See attached JPEG which explains how a transformer works.

(Note : PRIMARY is in - coming voltage SECONDARY is out-going voltage. The voltages in the JPEG are step down . The type that the OP needs

Edited April 4, 2011 by Delight

[InterestedObserver]

Thanks, but in electrical power systems that is known as a single-phase transformer.

[Delight]

Thanks, but in electrical power systems that is known as a single-phase transformer.

Thanks to you also

So is my statement -'a 2 Phase transformer is essentially a single phase transformer - twice' in correct ?

[InterestedObserver]

Thanks, but in electrical power systems that is known as a single-phase transformer.

Thanks to you also

So is my statement -'a 2 Phase transformer is essentially a single phase transformer - twice' in correct ?

Incorrect, google two-phase electric power - wikipedia. Two-phase systems use 90⁰ phase displacement between windings and are obsolete as far as electrical power systems are concerned. The windings shown on your transformer are essentially in phase, 0⁰ phase displacement.

Edited April 4, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[Delight]

Thanks, but in electrical power systems that is known as a single-phase transformer.

Thanks to you also

So is my statement -'a 2 Phase transformer is essentially a single phase transformer - twice' in correct ?

Incorrect, google two-phase electric power - wikipedia. Two-phase systems use 90⁰ phase displacement between windings and are obsolete as far as electrical power systems are concerned. The windings shown on your transformer are essentially in phase, 0⁰ phase displacement.

Thanks again for your response

However I think you are talking Apples and I am talking Oranges

Indeed the 2 -Phase general power transmission system was made obsolete over a hundred years ago with the introduction of 3-Phase.

Perhaps you could detail a modern domestic transformer for a dwelling(such as that detailed by the OP) that is better suited to having 2 separate phases.

Maybe we are only talking semantics.

[InterestedObserver]

'a 2 Phase transformer is essentially a single phase transformer - twice'

Using that logic I would be interested in what a single-phase transformer is, a ¹/₂ phase transformer - twice, half a primary winding plus half a secondary winding = a whole single-phase transformer. A two winding transformer is not a two-phase transformer.

However, from Wikipedia:

Idealised single-phase transformer showing path of magnetic flux through the core.

Edited April 4, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[kamalabob2]

The "deposit" you must give to the PEA office is refundable upon clearing your final bill, such as when you move out of the province. You must have the paper receipt to obtain the refund. 3 phase costs significantly more to have connected in Thailand than single phase service. The prices are on the wall in most PEA offices. If they insist you have your own 3 phase transformer, then the size of the transformer and ALL THE OTHER COSTS associated with the transformer are a rude awakening. It did not seem to matter if you bought a transformer from the PEA or a private contractor, you the customer had to maintain your own transformer. Then the issue of who pays the 10 men from the PEA and local government office to remove a wasp nest if you own the electric poles and electric wire. All part of the "joy of home ownership" in Thailand.

[Delight]

'a 2 Phase transformer is essentially a single phase transformer - twice'

Using that logic I would be interested in what a single-phase transformer is, a ¹/₂ phase transformer - twice, half a primary winding plus half a secondary winding = a whole single-phase transformer. A two winding transformer is not a two-phase transformer.

However, from Wikipedia:

Idealised single-phase transformer showing path of magnetic flux through the core.

We agree' A two winding transformer is not a two-phase transformer.'

Returning to my question :

-Perhaps you could detail a modern domestic transformer for a dwelling(such as that detailed by the OP) that is better suited to having 2 separate phases.-

or is the concept impossible ?

Edited April 4, 2011 by Delight

[Delight]

The "deposit" you must give to the PEA office is refundable upon clearing your final bill, such as when you move out of the province. You must have the paper receipt to obtain the refund. 3 phase costs significantly more to have connected in Thailand than single phase service. The prices are on the wall in most PEA offices. If they insist you have your own 3 phase transformer, then the size of the transformer and ALL THE OTHER COSTS associated with the transformer are a rude awakening. It did not seem to matter if you bought a transformer from the PEA or a private contractor, you the customer had to maintain your own transformer. Then the issue of who pays the 10 men from the PEA and local government office to remove a wasp nest if you own the electric poles and electric wire. All part of the "joy of home ownership" in Thailand.

Thanks for the clarification in respect of the deposit

I notice that one of your photos displays a transformer that may a have a slight technical hitch i.e.Its ablaze

Can you get your local handy man to fix it ,or do the PEA send out the cavalry?

Also what does PEA stand for?

[kamalabob2]

PEA is the upcountry version of the "Government Electric Utility" formally known as the Provincial Electricity Authority. They have a good web site sometimes with English. They "smoke" out the wasps, and we paid for the PEA staff to safely disconnect quite a bit of service in our area, then on a proper utility truck a government "sub contractor" did the actual killing of the wasps. It was no walk in the park, took about ten men a few hours and had to be after dark. Then they safely hooked our power and several neighbor's power back up. Money well spent as the wasps have not come back to that pole. check out PEA.co.th

[InterestedObserver]

A 2 Phase transformer takes 2 of the 3 electrical supplies available (see my earlier post) and transforms them -High volts to Lower volts.It is essentially a single phase transformer -twice. Perhaps you could detail a modern domestic transformer for a dwelling(such as that detailed by the OP) that is better suited to having 2 separate phases.-

There are single-phase and three-phase, but no two-phase power transformers. There are single-phase and three-phase, but no two-phase electrical loads that use power supplied by said transformers. You could be thinking about two of the three electrical phases (A,B or B,C or C,A) that are connected to the high-voltage primary winding of a single-phase power transformer to supply low-voltage 230 volts for residential dwelling loads.

Edited April 4, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[Delight]

A 2 Phase transformer takes 2 of the 3 electrical supplies available (see my earlier post) and transforms them -High volts to Lower volts.It is essentially a single phase transformer -twice. Perhaps you could detail a modern domestic transformer for a dwelling(such as that detailed by the OP) that is better suited to having 2 separate phases.-

There are single-phase and three-phase, but no two-phase power transformers. There are single-phase and three-phase, but no two-phase electrical loads that use power supplied by said transformers. You could be thinking about two of the three electrical phases (A,B or B,C or C,A) that are connected to the high-voltage primary winding of a single-phase power transformer to supply low-voltage 230 volts for residential dwelling loads.

Thanks for this interesting and detailed response

On reflection I was thrown by a statement in a earlier post

I would guess you are going to need somewhere in the neighborhood of a 100 amp two-phase transformer (equivalent to what a modern home in the USA would need.)

Thanks for your effort

[happyjune]

300k

[Delight]

300k

Well done' happyjune'

Apologies to' haveaniceday'

[gregb]

A 2 Phase transformer takes 2 of the 3 electrical supplies available (see my earlier post) and transforms them -High volts to Lower volts.It is essentially a single phase transformer -twice. Perhaps you could detail a modern domestic transformer for a dwelling(such as that detailed by the OP) that is better suited to having 2 separate phases.-

There are single-phase and three-phase, but no two-phase power transformers. There are single-phase and three-phase, but no two-phase electrical loads that use power supplied by said transformers. You could be thinking about two of the three electrical phases (A,B or B,C or C,A) that are connected to the high-voltage primary winding of a single-phase power transformer to supply low-voltage 230 volts for residential dwelling loads.

Thanks for this interesting and detailed response

On reflection I was thrown by a statement in a earlier post

I would guess you are going to need somewhere in the neighborhood of a 100 amp two-phase transformer (equivalent to what a modern home in the USA would need.)

Thanks for your effort

If I understand where the "2 phase" power is coming from, I think it is in reference to the US market. There, the power is 120V. 240V outlets are created by a neutral center tap, with the two phases 180 degrees out of phase with each other. Therefore, you get 120V phase to neutral, and 240V phase to phase. This isn't done anywhere except the US to my knowledge.

Similarly, with 3 phase 120V power, where the phases are 120 degrees shifted from each other, you get 120V phase to neutral, and 208V phase to phase. You'll find alot of industrial equipment in 120V countries marked 208V. I've seen more than 1 person import this stuff into Thailand, and think they could simply connect it to 220v 3 phase power because the voltages looked close and they didn't understand how it was calculated. Needless to say, when they hit it with 380v the equipment blew up.

To the OP, in Thailand you only have 2 choices. Single phase or 3 phase. 3 phase power can be thought of as 3 single phase circuits as far as you are concerned. The electric poles always carry 3 phase. If you order single phase service, they simply tap 1 of the phases off the pole. They try and balance which phase they tap with the other houses near you so that they don't overload any particular circuit. If you order 3 phase, they tap all 3. I would strongly recommend with 8 air conditioning units that you do not even consider single phase service. If you try to run them all at the same time, you will likely experience severe voltage drops, or at the very least cause severe voltage drops for your neighbors at the end of the circuit that happen to be unlucky enough to be on your phase.

A friend of mine did single phase on his house. When he started turning too many things on, his voltage dropped from 223v down to about 180v. Not good at all. Lots of things stop working when it gets down this low.

Pay the extra money, get 3 phase service, and be happy. Your install fee will be higher, your monthly bill will be higher, but you'll have all the power you need.

[mojaco]

Thanks for the education! Now I wonder what was lost in translation when the Electricity Authority seemed to quote "1 phase = 10K deposit, 2 phase = 20K deposit, 3 phase = 30K deposit"?

Anyway, that was in another district. Here where we are at, 8 years ago the contractor put in a 3-phase 60 Amp transformer for 126,000 Baht (deposit for the transformer, meter, 70 meter wire to the main lines.) After that transformer blew up during construction (see next paragraph) we now have all three phases being brought in to the buildings, and the main breaker says it is 125 Amp at 220 Volts. I understand that would be equivalent to a 250 Amp service at 110 volts in the USA?

As an anecdote, and note of caution? When we were building, The contractor was using the 60 Amp transformer they had the government put in for construction purposes (the one we put a deposit on and had installed), but because the transformer fuse blew 2-3 times when 2 or more welders turned on their machines at the same time, the construction foreman simply put in a 100 Amp fuse. So the transformer blew up instead, and we had to buy a new one. The contractor should have had a larger transformer put in! But a "mai ben rai", "it will be OK" sort of philosophy seems to prevail.

This time we RENTED a 125 Amp 3-phase transformer from the government costing 33,000 deposit (refundable if we remove the transformer - when would that ever happen?) plus a 12,000 installation fee (I think we got "took" on that one unless that also included the additional cost of the original transformer over the deposit originally made? Who knows?), and we are paying 600 Baht per month rental on it.

We are in a small town of about 1000 people or so, and the City Mayor said we use more electricity than his entire town! I know we have an electric bill of about 12,000 Baht per month whereas most Thai homes here pay only about 300 Baht per month.

[InterestedObserver]

If I understand where the "2 phase" power is coming from, I think it is in reference to the US market. There, the power is 120V. 240V outlets are created by a neutral center tap, with the two phases 180 degrees out of phase with each other. Therefore, you get 120V phase to neutral, and 240V phase to phase. This isn't done anywhere except the US to my knowledge.

The correct terminology for the US 120/240 volt connection is split-phase, although center tapped single-phase is sometimes used. Two-phase is never correct when used to describe a modern electrical power system.

Edited April 5, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[katabeachbum]

OP the cost depends on what you need.

Looks like if your house is 3 phase, you need 3x45A meter at approx 15k baht pluss cabels and installation

or

one phase 30/100A meter at approx 13k baht pluss cabels and installation

If 230 Volt is present in poles outside your house

if not, ad cost for transformer

PEA can give you an estimate