Deputy PM Suthep Denied He Would Shine Thaksin's Shoes

[animatic]

"The MP's should reflect not some hazy concept of a party,

but instead the will of the voters that placed THEM in office."

Worth repeating.

People rarely vote for a person - they vote for a party - same in UK most people don't know the names of their MP's but vote Labour or Conservative (and occasionally Liberal) and that's why they have big political televised debates - not about the individual MP it's about the party and it's policies. Many 'more famous' MP's have gone independent in the past and been kicked out - people vote for parties and mostly for the PM. This is obvious.

Most people vote fore the local guy they know in the party that purports to have a platform they prefer. If the two main parties different consistently they then tend to vote for the party closets to their feelings, but only because of that.

The " and occasionally liberal" comment explains this,

if the liberal party guys seem more to their liking than either Con or Lab they vote for him. It's always about the person, but that person has aligned himself with a philosophy or a plan.

Edited April 7, 2011 by animatic

[phiphidon]

"The MP's should reflect not some hazy concept of a party,

but instead the will of the voters that placed THEM in office."

Worth repeating.

So it's Ok to form a coalition with these MP's that reflect some hazy concept of a party? I mean you (not you personally) couldn't really trust them could you? Even though they shore up your coalition you couldn't tell what would happen when the next party turns up and flashes a few baht or a promise of a lucrative position that they wouldn't be off like a robbers dog. Thai politics - To Bowdlerise the late great Derek and Clive, you've got to ask yourself, "Is this a way to run an <deleted> Ballroom?"

Read the quote again ..... Focus on the second line

Wow! I was quoted!

Possibly for the first time I agree with you. What I question, is the ethics of political parties of all shades that allow this to happen i.e I'm questioning the supposed ethics of thai politics. Personally I think that once a politician decides to jump ship and join another party this should immediately trigger a by-election in the affected constituency - then the voters have a chance to vote again for either the party or the politician whichever they deem would serve their interests best. In an Ideal World............

[ballpoint]

"The MP's should reflect not some hazy concept of a party,

but instead the will of the voters that placed THEM in office."

Worth repeating.

People rarely vote for a person - they vote for a party - same in UK most people don't know the names of their MP's but vote Labour or Conservative (and occasionally Liberal) and that's why they have big political televised debates - not about the individual MP it's about the party and it's policies. Many 'more famous' MP's have gone independent in the past and been kicked out - people vote for parties and mostly for the PM. This is obvious.

I'd go as far to say that many rural Thais neither know the name, nor the party, of the person they are voting for. The ballot papers assign every candidiate a number, for the illiterate, and a pattern of dots, for the inumerate. Take a look at the campaign posters when they appear next. The local vote buyer gives the voter a piece of paper with the corresponding pattern of votes to put their cross against. Think of the mayhem that would ensue should the patterns be mixed up on the ballot papers, imagine the power that someone able to do that would have.

[jayboy]

"The MP's should reflect not some hazy concept of a party,

but instead the will of the voters that placed THEM in office."

Worth repeating.

People rarely vote for a person - they vote for a party - same in UK most people don't know the names of their MP's but vote Labour or Conservative (and occasionally Liberal) and that's why they have big political televised debates - not about the individual MP it's about the party and it's policies. Many 'more famous' MP's have gone independent in the past and been kicked out - people vote for parties and mostly for the PM. This is obvious.

I'd go as far to say that many rural Thais neither know the name, nor the party, of the person they are voting for. The ballot papers assign every candidiate a number, for the illiterate, and a pattern of dots, for the inumerate. Take a look at the campaign posters when they appear next. The local vote buyer gives the voter a piece of paper with the corresponding pattern of votes to put their cross against. Think of the mayhem that would ensue should the patterns be mixed up on the ballot papers, imagine the power that someone able to do that would have.

I'm not clear exactly what you are saying here.When you speak of "many rural Thais" are you suggesting a majority or a sufficient minority to nullify the rural voting process?

There is as you know a middle class mainly urban element which claims the rural majority is essentially owned by local patrons, subject to vote buying and insufficiently literate or educated to participate in or understand the democratic process.I'm not sure if you're implying this so will keep my powder dry.Suffice it to say it is a view that can be demolished with ease.

[hammered]

I would strongly advise anyone who has the chance and is interested in Thai politics to spend a few months before and up to an election in a rural area if you dont live in one. It also helps if the local people trust you. Then you can form your own opinions. Very few of those you read in news columns are made from a background of actual knowledge. It is in my experience a lot more complicated than people think and also varies if an area is competetive or not

[ballpoint]

I'd go as far to say that many rural Thais neither know the name, nor the party, of the person they are voting for. The ballot papers assign every candidiate a number, for the illiterate, and a pattern of dots, for the inumerate. Take a look at the campaign posters when they appear next. The local vote buyer gives the voter a piece of paper with the corresponding pattern of votes to put their cross against. Think of the mayhem that would ensue should the patterns be mixed up on the ballot papers, imagine the power that someone able to do that would have.

I'm not clear exactly what you are saying here.When you speak of "many rural Thais" are you suggesting a majority or a sufficient minority to nullify the rural voting process?

There is as you know a middle class mainly urban element which claims the rural majority is essentially owned by local patrons, subject to vote buying and insufficiently literate or educated to participate in or understand the democratic process.I'm not sure if you're implying this so will keep my powder dry.Suffice it to say it is a view that can be demolished with ease.

I used the term "many" because it is not the majority, but it is more than a few. Certainly, in the village I've been living in for close to two decades, the majority of those over 50 have very poor reading skills, as do many (there's that term again, but, unless a poll were conducted to get absolute figures, it must serve to represent a moderate to significant minority) under that age. Even amongst those who decide for themselves who to vote for, which I agree is more than many of those who make the "too poorly educated to vote" claims make out to be, I'd say there are more than a few who never the less still rely on the numbers and dot patterns when making their mark on the ballot sheet. Most Western elections, well illustrated by the infamous Bush win of 2000, show that it doesn't pay to over estimate the intelligence of the electorate. Based on all that, I'd say, yes, for sure, any rearranging of the numbers and dot patterns between the ballot papers and the campaign posters / voting instructions, would have a significant effect on the outcome of the election. I'd like to see my view demolished with ease, as all I've said, apart from that last statement, which is an educated opinion based on everything else I've said, is a fairly easily proven fact. I'll also endeavour to get hold of one of the voting instruction papers and post it here. Of course, then I'll be up for accusations of forging the thing. It would be an interesting exercise for someone to come into a rural village with a written list of candidates and their parties, ask the people who they will be voting for and then have them select the name from the list. Or do the same thing as they are leaving the polling booth - ask them who they just voted for, and have them point it out on the sheet. Anyone interested in doing so in a typical village, or indeed, just asking the residents about their opinion on Thaksin, the reds, Newin and Abhisit are welcome to do so here. You may be in for a nasty surprise if you have any preconceived notions of all Isaan being a giant red shirt breeding ground.

Edited April 7, 2011 by ballpoint

[jdinasia]

I would strongly advise anyone who has the chance and is interested in Thai politics to spend a few months before and up to an election in a rural area if you dont live in one. It also helps if the local people trust you. Then you can form your own opinions. Very few of those you read in news columns are made from a background of actual knowledge. It is in my experience a lot more complicated than people think and also varies if an area is competetive or not

Good post, but not practical for most posters. Having lived in various areas in Thailand, hell, even various areas in BKK alone! Will show a different aspect of Thai politics on a local level. What goes on in suburban BKK, is not the same as what goes on in industrial Samut Phrakhan, and what goes on in an army compound in Chiang Mai is not the same as what goes on just outside of that compound in central Chiang Mai.

On Jan 1 this year I moved to a small soi outside of where one of our offices are located. The difference in the people just on the soi is pretty incredible. Some average Thai, some rural Thai working in the city, and some students makes it quite diverse. My next door neighbor listens to Red radio (loud! but I think he is actually a little deaf. The neighbors across the street from him share similar political positioning, but only on a practical level, while the neighbors across from me own a house and an apartment block and are broadly behind the government, but wouldn't discuss this with the people living next door to them.

I can't say that I have ever really lived in a truly rural environment in Thailand, but I have lived around people who are from a truly rural background.

[metisdead]

One post removed for altering the quote:

30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

And from Thai Visa Forum Netiquette:

2. Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording. Such posts will be deleted and the user warned.

Then a bunch of other off topic posts were removed.

Removed posts (and responses) that claimed others were paid to post. If you have any actual evidence please forward it to support. If it's just a lame debating tactic, further references like that may find you without posting rights.

[supaprik]

Suthep has a lot of serious work in the Kingdom, but to deal with any personality.

Whence comes that his so sick obsession? is it something what he learned at the Faculty of Political Sciences, or is it his personal hate?

Whence the necessity for full mouth of Mr. Thaksin, so many stories about Mr.Thaksin?

He as a deputy in chief of the government so he should be first to have trust in institutions, system. To leave to the system and it's institutions, the judiciary, to deal with the future of Mr. Thaksin.

Is this a result of his personal assumption that he should not believe to the judiciary system , in the case of Mr. Thaksin return?

or is it just plain fear of possible come back of Mr. Thaksin?

He is very interesting with his obsession as no one else in Thailand talk in public about Mr. Thaksin any more.

Or is it customary tactics of a dictators?

Or just a manner of Goebbels, to make enemies of the Kingdom all around, so to establish necessity for fighting?

You ask a few good questions there Step

[whybother]

Suthep has a lot of serious work in the Kingdom, but to deal with any personality.

Whence comes that his so sick obsession? is it something what he learned at the Faculty of Political Sciences, or is it his personal hate?

Whence the necessity for full mouth of Mr. Thaksin, so many stories about Mr.Thaksin?

He as a deputy in chief of the government so he should be first to have trust in institutions, system. To leave to the system and it's institutions, the judiciary, to deal with the future of Mr. Thaksin.

Is this a result of his personal assumption that he should not believe to the judiciary system , in the case of Mr. Thaksin return?

or is it just plain fear of possible come back of Mr. Thaksin?

He is very interesting with his obsession as no one else in Thailand talk in public about Mr. Thaksin any more.

Or is it customary tactics of a dictators?

Or just a manner of Goebbels, to make enemies of the Kingdom all around, so to establish necessity for fighting?

You ask a few good questions there Step

Really? You understand what he's saying?

[metisdead]

Many of the other posts made here do not seem to address the topic at hand, off topic posts and replies have been removed. I think this topic has ran it's course.

Closed