Freelancer Working Abroad, Living In Thailand

[fatfather]

I posted this topic already to Sunbelt, but due to an insufficient answer I try it here again, maybe someone is in a similar situation. My question to Sunbelt was:

I'm on the way to quitt my employment and change over to freelance work. I'll work abroad but live in Thailand. How to manage this here in Thailand without running in problems with tax authorities here? I'll need a tax number for billing my customers. Do I have to found a company even no money is made here in Thailand, does a tax number require a work permit how to establish my freelance job legally?

Sunbelt answers:

You don't state what kind of work you will be doing? If your work is done online but inside the Kingdom of Thailand then that is considered working in Thailand and you will need to set up a company with the usual 2 million baht capital and Thai employees to obtain a work permit.

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I'm working as a service engineer in the oil/gas fields and I'm not going to do any work inside Thailand. The customers are spread all over the world and will contract me for projects. As far as I know I will need a tax number for billing. How to manage this without running in troubles with Thai tax authoriyies.

fatfather

[Naam]

I'm working as a service engineer in the oil/gas fields and I'm not going to do any work inside Thailand. The customers are spread all over the world and will contract me for projects. As far as I know I will need a tax number for billing.

why would you need a Thai tax number for billing? there's no reason for that if your work is outside Thailand.

[rebbu]

Base your self out of Thailand (tax wise).

www.ocra.com

[meom]

I'm working in the Middle East and we frequently hire freelance service engineers.

We don't care whether they have a tax number or not. They get paid either in cash upon job completion or we transfer the amount to any account they wish.

[Soutpeel]

I'm working as a service engineer in the oil/gas fields and I'm not going to do any work inside Thailand. The customers are spread all over the world and will contract me for projects. As far as I know I will need a tax number for billing.

why would you need a Thai tax number for billing? there's no reason for that if your work is outside Thailand.

My thoughts exactly...

Are you a UK citizen who will be working freelance for UK based companies, operating overseas by any chance ?

Edited April 8, 2011 by Soutpeel

[REM]

In my opinion, since you are not working in Thailand, and you are not working for a Thai company, why would you need a Thai tax ID? Any company or person with a vested interest will tell you to get one and pay taxes, but this seems unnecessary to me. I would keep a bank account in your home country or hand your payments however you do, and just wire transfer the money into a Thai bank account. You can open one up if you have the cash in hand, no need for the papers depending on what bank you go to and who you talk to.

You will have to do your visa runs like anyone else without a work permit, but since you will be going in and out of the country anyway, that does not seem like it will be a problem. Or you could open up a bank account with no ATM fees, like a Charles Schwab checking account that refunds the ATM fees back to you each month, and viola! You can stay in Thailand, work abroad, and don't have to worry about the Thai banking system except when you pay bills!!!!!

But the Thai tax number seems like a waste, you're not working here, so why get it?

[guzzi850m2]

I work for a off-shore company based in Singapore (world wide) and never paid any tax in Thailand (I am married and got a house here). I moved permanently out of Denmark some 7 years ago for same reason.

[KTD]

I need a change, you guys need any wellsite supervisors? workover/completion? Cheers,

[thedistillers]

Given your situation, you cannot legally work in Thailand. You will either have to work illegally on a tourist or ed visa, or choose another country.

[Soutpeel]

Given your situation, you cannot legally work in Thailand. You will either have to work illegally on a tourist or ed visa, or choose another country.

Try reading the post.... ....the OP is not working in Thailand

[thedistillers]

I know how to read, thanks. You can't be a freelancer, live in Thailand and not work at all in Thailand.

He will never reply to a work-related email while in Thailand? He will never accept contracts while in Thailand? He will never discuss upcoming projects while in Thailand? Really?

[Naam]

I know how to read, thanks. You can't be a freelancer, live in Thailand and not work at all in Thailand.

He will never reply to a work-related email while in Thailand? He will never accept contracts while in Thailand? He will never discuss upcoming projects while in Thailand? Really?

who cares or knows what exactly he's doing within his four walls? next beancounting things you might come up that require a work permit?

-washing his dishes

-shaving

-having sex with his girl/boyfriend

-switching channels on his TV

-inserting a CD in his music system

-writing an e-mail to his old mother

-poking his nose

[fatfather]

Thanks a lot for all the replies, very intresting. I've not been a freelancer yet, so I thought that a tax number is mandatory. I'm a German and in Germany you cannot get a freelance job without a tax number. Any tax number will do it, doesn't matter where it's from. Till up now I'm working as an employee, living in Thailand since eight years and I like to get rid of the situation of being sent to jobs I not really aprecciate. There are lots of jobs in this field and after 25+ years on the sites I do not fear to run out of job opportunities.

Again thanks for your input, it seems that the tax number is no issue.

fatfather

[thedistillers]

I know how to read, thanks. You can't be a freelancer, live in Thailand and not work at all in Thailand.

He will never reply to a work-related email while in Thailand? He will never accept contracts while in Thailand? He will never discuss upcoming projects while in Thailand? Really?

who cares or knows what exactly he's doing within his four walls? next beancounting things you might come up that require a work permit?

-washing his dishes

-shaving

-having sex with his girl/boyfriend

-switching channels on his TV

-inserting a CD in his music system

-writing an e-mail to his old mother

-poking his nose

I don't care about what he does between his 4 walls, I'm giving factual informations. Do you have issues with reality?

None of the things you listed can be called "work" by any reasonable person, though that the law in Thailand is written in such an idiotic and ambigious way that none of us can provide a clear definition of work. And limits are being tested, as we saw recently in the Chiang Mai forum.

However, there is no doubt that being in contact with clients IS work. Or maybe he's gonna go to Cambodia each time he checks his work email. The law is entirely clear you cannot work on a tourist or ed visa.

[Naam]

maybe he's gonna go to Cambodia each time he checks his work email[/quote}

you are asking me whether i have issues with reality?

according to your beancounting theory thousands of expats living in Thailand who check every day their "work" e-mail because they gainfully "work" when they issue instructions to their banks or brokers how to handle their investments and are therefore required to hold a work permit.

case closed, reason frivolous and ridiculous allegations.

Bailiff next!

[McFarang]

I know how to read, thanks. You can't be a freelancer, live in Thailand and not work at all in Thailand.

Oh yes you can! I am a consultant and have been doing so for nearly six years, have 2 houses, 2 Cars a motorbike and a boat all legaly registered in Thailand in my name.

I work in the Oil Industry all over the world but live in Thailand because this is where I spend my time off and it is my base and home.

You may know how to read but you do not know what you are talking about.

My advice to the OP is to invoice as a Sole Trader have your Bank Account in Hong Kong, Singapore or the UAE and just trickle feed your Thai Bank Account and class the transfers as Living Costs Thailand.

Enjoy living in LOS and concentrate on earning your money elswhere it's a nice situation to be in and I know dozens of people that do it.

[Nawtier]

Get a Hong Kong company then.....cheap and no tax to pay I am lead to believe on monies earned outside of the country.

[fatfather]

I know how to read, thanks. You can't be a freelancer, live in Thailand and not work at all in Thailand.

Oh yes you can! I am a consultant and have been doing so for nearly six years, have 2 houses, 2 Cars a motorbike and a boat all legaly registered in Thailand in my name.

I work in the Oil Industry all over the world but live in Thailand because this is where I spend my time off and it is my base and home.

You may know how to read but you do not know what you are talking about.

My advice to the OP is to invoice as a Sole Trader have your Bank Account in Hong Kong, Singapore or the UAE and just trickle feed your Thai Bank Account and class the transfers as Living Costs Thailand.

Enjoy living in LOS and concentrate on earning your money elswhere it's a nice situation to be in and I know dozens of people that do it.

I live in Thailand and also work worldwide, no problem so far. Why would I have to class transfers? Till up now I just send money to my Thai account, as much as I need or like. Nobody ever asked me what it is for...

fatfather

[chiang mai]

I worked on a Freelance basis internationally for many years whilst living in Thailand and in other countries. I always used an umbrella company in Hong Kong to do my billing and collect my fees and the price paid for this service was negligible - once the company collects the fees they will deposit them wherever you wish thus taxation is not an issue. All legal and above board and run by one of the Big Four, PM for details if needed.

[maprao]

I thought the thread was about a beach road freelancer working overseas

[chiang mai]

Since I've had three PM's asking for details I'll post the info on the HK umbrella company here:

The company is called Seamex and it's run by Nelson Wheeler who are well known chartered accountants in Hong Kong and are partnered by Price Waterhouse, there's no joining fee and it can be used on an ad-hoc basis whenever needed. Simply contact Nelson Wheeler and tell them you want to use Seamex, provide them with your details and the details of your client, provide them with time sheets and invoicing details at the end of each period and they will: invoice the client, collect the funds, deduct their fee, transfer the funds to your account (anywhere) and send you the accounting details. Note: Seamex can be used for clients in any country worldwide EXCEPT Hong Kong.

http://www.rsmnelsonwheeler.com/

[tracker]

i have a company in thailand and work abroad as a freelancer. contracts are signed up between my thai company and the foreign company. I did this because certain countries hold companies accountable for the tax the freelancer need to pay. the Netherlands being such a country. So my taxes are payed in thailand.

Since you're not working in thailand, a work permit is not needed. If you work under 180 days a year, your tax is also quite low... (but then you also have to stay in thailand over 180 days)

Edited April 15, 2011 by tracker

[muratremix]

Singapore has no income tax for revenues made outside of Singapore and you may choose to use a bank account in Singapore to receive / send payments.

In that case, you will have no problem with Thai tax authorities because you are a tourist with no money traffic in Thailand.

Singapore is very close to Thailand and you can withdrawal hard cash every time you visit your bank. You can bring as much as $20,000 usd to Thailand everytime you visit Singapore and return.

[fatfather]

Singapore has no income tax for revenues made outside of Singapore and you may choose to use a bank account in Singapore to receive / send payments.

In that case, you will have no problem with Thai tax authorities because you are a tourist with no money traffic in Thailand.

Singapore is very close to Thailand and you can withdrawal hard cash every time you visit your bank. You can bring as much as $20,000 usd to Thailand everytime you visit Singapore and return.

I have no issues with "tax free bank accounts". I'm still an employee of a German company and get my money still to a German account, tax free. What ever I need I transfer to Thailand to my accounts here. The question was how to claim my customers as a freelancer without running in troubles with the Thai authorities....

chiang mai provided already the perfect answer.....

Fatfather