Buying Land But The Chanote Is In The Bank !

[haveaniceday]

Meant to be buying a block of land, well my wife actually, but we found out today that the daughter has put it in the bank for a loan.

The daughter has been trying to stop this sale with many ways of being difficult, the daughter rang us, saying that the mum doesn't know, and doesn't want us to tell she, we don't really get how the owner doesn't know, but TIT !!!

We are refusing of course to give money to the daughter to clear the debt, I read on this site in a thread I cant find, that in this case, the bank would send a staff to the land office at the same time the deal is done, eg, bank takes its portion, clears the debt off the back of the chanote, then land office transfers it.

Daughter saying no, banks don't send people, we know she is a lying bitch, I mean she waits till late the night before after we do a long drive but her antics is another thing, because she is a "teacher" she thinks she is awesome, anyone got any advice about how banks deal with this?

Thanks

[InterestedObserver]

As you already know the bank has to be paid before, or simultaneous with, chanote transfer at the land office. The real question is how the bank mortgage was signed without the landowner's knowledge and will the landowner complete the deal now. The bank will gladly send a representative to the land office to collect the check, but you need to confirm the amount before hand. Have you examined the actual chanote for any other encumbrances?

[haveaniceday]

Interested O, many questions we are asking our selves now as well.

We have not looked at the land office chanote yet as we thought this would all be done when all parties go to the lands office? we have a copy of the front page of it, but it also may be a copy before funny business ! Well it would be, the mum gave us it to get it photocopied. The mum and son has been straight with us, well, never caught them out as such. My wife think the mum is illiterate, so thinks how the daughter may have basically 'stolen' her own and land to mortgage it, or she just fakes some signatures. We really don't know. There is now the question, will the mum sell and not get what she was expecting due to the bitch daughter needing her debts settled first and the daughter hell bent on keeping all a secret.

The daughter is refusing to accept that the bank will send a rep to simultaneously clear the chanote and transfer. I think it has more to do with keeping it a secret from her mum. Unfortuntly her mum thinks she knows everything about everything, as she is a 'teacher', grrrrrr TIT again.

I do have a couple of queries though, kind of thinking out loud.

1.Can we got to the land office and see the back of the chonote without the owner before when ever we settle?

2.When paying the bank, I presume they will want a cheque and not cash, I read on here I think it was that they like cheque's drawn from the branch where the debt is held. What is the name of these cheque's in Thailand?

3.the Chanote is actually being split up, nearly cut in half, the chanote has to be cleared and released form the bank first before the land office can go make 2 new chanotes, how best to avoid a risk of after us now paying out the bank at the land office, of a 'shifty' being pulled before we actually get our chanote?

Very frustrating !!!!

[thaiwanderer]

General advice which consider or ignore as you choose - tread very carefully here as you are getting involved in a potential family dispute and depending on the personalities involved may make using the land (even if successfully bought) a pain.

Does the mother know how much she's going to get for her land after the bank is paid off?

Why is it being split? are you only meant to be getting one part?

You can and definitely should get the chanote from the land office to find out exactly what encumberances there are and not rely on anything the daughter tells you (since it appears she's already committed fraud?).

You should probably get good legal advice about this and how your investment is secured between paying off the bank and splitting the land.

[haveaniceday]

"You should probably get good legal advice about this and how your investment is secured between paying off the bank and splitting the land."

I agree, getting a legal contract drawn up is a safer path to go down. I am not really sure what happens in the limbo period, after we give money that in this case will go to the bank with everyone in the lands office, and the time between the gov staff to do the paper work and stake out the ground.

We believe the mum is still in the dark, hopefully not for much longer, but not our position to tell her, unless we get screwed around some more by the daughter. We have told the daughter what she needs to do, she has till tonight to make arrangements with the bank and tell her mum. Her problem.

Why we splitting it up? Basically, the mother wants some money to upgrade her home and do some things, is the story. We are buying about half her land, and also had to split it up to buy a long 4m wide driveway that we will own to the road. The mother has been more than reasonable with us, but lets her daughter look after her affairs is what her down fall is. We have just found out that the bank is owed just under what we are paying. So, time will tell what happens. Best to let them sort their internal issues out.

[InterestedObserver]

No money is to be paid, except perhaps a small deposit to the mother to seal the deal, until the land is surveyed/divided and land office ready to issue new chanote(s). The bank can confirm what is owed to them. You need to get a look at the back of the chanote to check for other encumbrances. The mother needs to be told at some point, perhaps everybody should go to the land office to get the preliminaries started - the survey will not get done overnight. Have you agreed on who is to pay what transfer fee/taxes? Having a lawyer handle the entire transaction, including attending the actual chanote transfer, is a good idea. Tread carefully, this could turn into a family dispute.

Edited April 11, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[Delight]

The mother has been more than reasonable with us, but lets her daughter look after her affairs

Are you sure that the 2 are not working as a team.?

Maybe they will agree to co-operate with each other -only if the price goes up.

(Confess I have not read the entire Post. But apparent family conflict when a Farang is involved is a regular trick.)

[gregb]

The daughter is refusing to accept that the bank will send a rep to simultaneously clear the chanote and transfer.

The daughter needs to be told in no uncertain terms that she is out of her mind. The bank will appear at the land office on the day the transfer is done, end of story. Only a fool would pay the note while the land is still in someone else's name. You have to stick to your guns here and let the chips fall where they may. If it means the sale falls through, then the sale falls through. This is not something there is any wiggle room on.

If she doesn't want this to happen, she needs to borrow the money from a loan shark and clear the note herself. Of course, this all assumes there really is a mortgage against the land. It could simply be a tactic by the daughter to get something extra. It is also possible the daughter got the mother to sign a document that she didn't read, and used some kind of power of attorney with an excuse like her mother was ill and couldn't appear in person to close the deal. Possible...but not likely. Sounds highly suspicious to me.

In any case, it is entirely possible to go to the land office and ask to see the note. You may have to make it worth someone's time to help you out, but there is nothing secret about these things. If there is a legitimate loan against the land, it will appear on the back of the chanote.

There is one more thing which you need to consider. The loan could be through a local loan shark. In that case, there would be no record, but one day some ugly thugs could show up demanding you pay. They'd probably also be giving her a hard time at the same time. When it comes to this kind of a situation, there are no rules. You say you've only seen a copy of the chanote. This could be because the actual chanote is being held by the local village loan shark.

Lots of things for you to think about, but I think you need to be upfront with the mother here about what you are hearing. Sounds to me like there is a very good chance this thing is not going to happen, and the mother needs to understand why.

If you are going through with this and it is a legitimate loan from a financial institution, best way to pay is with a cashier's check. They generally cost 20 baht. Just go to any bank where you have an account and request one. I've never had any bank not understand the English words "cashier's check". You surrender this check only when the bank surrenders the paperwork clearing all liens against the property. There is no circumstance where I would let this be done anywhere except at the land office, but that is just me.

You may want to take the risk, but this whole thing smells to me. If the daughter doesn't come to her senses, then I'd just let it go. No matter how good this deal is, there will be other opportunities.

[brabo2180]

My advice would be to walk away from this deal.

Everything sounds too fishy to me!!

I also almost lost money when trying to buy land in Ban Thon near Khon Kaen.

The owner and the land office guy even came to my hotel in KKC. All papers were signed but afterwards it turned out the chanote was held by the bank and the seller wasn't the only owner.

We got our 10.000 baht deposit back, but it took some effort.

As suggested by other BM's: there is a scam and/or family tragedy brewing here.

Do you want to live next door to these people? They are going to be your neighbours!!!

I am also worrying about the 4 meters "road" they would have to leave open. This can easily become a source of argument.

I would look for another piece of land with clean ownership. Should be enough around.

[thaiwanderer]

"You should probably get good legal advice about this and how your investment is secured between paying off the bank and splitting the land."

I agree, getting a legal contract drawn up is a safer path to go down. I am not really sure what happens in the limbo period, after we give money that in this case will go to the bank with everyone in the lands office, and the time between the gov staff to do the paper work and stake out the ground.

We believe the mum is still in the dark, hopefully not for much longer, but not our position to tell her, unless we get screwed around some more by the daughter. We have told the daughter what she needs to do, she has till tonight to make arrangements with the bank and tell her mum. Her problem.

Why we splitting it up? Basically, the mother wants some money to upgrade her home and do some things, is the story. We are buying about half her land, and also had to split it up to buy a long 4m wide driveway that we will own to the road. The mother has been more than reasonable with us, but lets her daughter look after her affairs is what her down fall is. We have just found out that the bank is owed just under what we are paying. So, time will tell what happens. Best to let them sort their internal issues out.

Unfortunately a contract only gives you a gateway to (likely protracted) litigation and probably major headaches.

Since the mortagage is just under the purchase price the mother won't have much for her improvements, will lose part of her land and all just to pay off a loan she (apparently) never knew about or benefitted from.

The more you post the more it stinks and as another says above even if you secure ownership for yor partner they will be your neighbours.

I'd walk away from it but of course its your call.

[brabo2180]

"We are buying about half her land, and also had to split it up to buy a long 4m wide driveway that we will own to the road.

Just another idea: you will have to bring water, electricity, phone and a sewage pipe to your house along this long driveway. This will cost you a lot of extra money.

I once had an electricity post moved 3 meters because it was blocking the drive-in for the car: cost me 20.000 baht.

Apart from the issues already discussed, I would prefer a piece of land on a road where water, electricity, phone and sewage are already available.