"the American Soldier"

[The_Moog]

Doesn't it bring a tear to your eye.

.....someone pass me a hanky.

(& a sick bag)

(& a subscription form to buy 52 issues of Time at Xmas discount rates)

- weren't there a few soldiers from other countries there too?

[The_Moog]

Who will be Thaivisa's man of the year.

I nominate Syd and Kevin.

Moog

ps That last post was my 100th post.

[Boon Mee]

Time put the American soldier on it's cover 'cause there's more Americans dying over there and, the left-wing rag is published in the States.

[JemJem]

Boon Mee.....your point doesn't make sense...supposing Time is left-wing, why would it get nationalistic and nominate 'American soldier' as ''Man of the Year'' ?

I myself would nominate Senor Fidel Castro as 'Man of the Year', for completing yet another year, leading a proudly socialist nation successfully with little resources.

Just kidding.......I've just wanted to annoy/tease the right-wingers here But one cannot help but admire Senor Castro in some aspects....seriously.

By the way I am hoping to see another ''Butterfly versus Membrane'' fight in this thread

Regards,

Jem

[Indo-Siam]

I like what one US President had to say about armchair critics:

Man in the Arena

Choice excepts:

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face in marred by dust and sweat and blood.....

and

Still less room is there for those who deride of slight what is done by those who actually bear the brunt of the day; nor yet for those others who always profess that they would like to take action, if only the conditions of life were not exactly what they actually are.....It is war-worn Hotspur, spent with hard fighting, he of the many errors and valiant end, over whose memory we love to linger, not over the memory of the young lord who "but for the vile guns would have been a valiant soldier."

I just wish they'd put Pat Tillman and his brother on the cover -

A Real American Sports Hero

Indo-Siam

[Guest IT Manager]

The cynic in me asks where the US Government advertises in Time, or perhaps where they don't. Didn't they used to adverise Air America?

[Boon Mee]

They used to own Air America - trying to keep the Pathet Lao from taking over. Didn't do too good a job but it enabled lots of US soldiers to get high.

As far as man of the year why not George Bush? What he's done to piss off 1/2 of Europe and elsewhere gains him great esteem in many circles...

[bartender100]

Did you see that Trink was also mentioned in this issue,under retiered.

[mbkudu]

Indo Siam, spare me the bull sh#t. You as well as I know that the American soldier is one of most used and abused commodities America has at its disposal.

A lot of American military families are really discusted with the present U.S. administration and the callous manner in which they have treated

americas soldiers. Our UPS driver where I work is in the reserves and was waiting to be sent to Iraq but was held up because one of the guys in his group "bitched"

because they were going to be sent over without flak jackets! The protest delayed their trip by four weeks. Finally the local sherrifs department donated enough flak jackets for them to go. The government doesn't give a flying f##k about them, and neither does Time magazine. It's all for their own publicity. Who really owns Time magazine, Mr. Indo Siam? I guarantee most of the shareholders have interests in the Defense department or government contracts that are feeding off the suffering of the Iraqi people.Spare me the patriotic fist shaking, please.

[Indo-Siam]

Mbkudo -

In case you don't grasp this, the issue was "American Soldier" as man of the year. Not "US Government" or "US Defense Department" or "Pentagon" or "GEN John Abizad." They put a grunt on the cover. The grunt doesn't make the policy, he doesn't pick the place to fight. He goes where he is told to go, and does what he is told to do. Your whining complaints are about political and civilain issues. You know what, I agree with you. Career civilians are worthless. Thank god they didn't end up on the cover.

The world has a long history of warfare. For thousands of years, conquering armies have reaped the spoils of war. The losers have always been in for a rough time. World War II was pretty uniqiue - when Japan and Western Germany were occupied, the victors didn't ravage the losers - compare that to what happened in the Russian sector of Germany.

By Vietnam time, the US Army was a mess - an organization truly screwed up by a generation of bad policies. And "the American soldier" - an Army of conscripts - was typically not particularly noble.

Now - somehow, between 1972 and 1992, the US Army mananged to turn iteself back into a professional, disciplined fighting force. An all-volunteer force. It was partly the leadership that pulled this off - not the ever-changing political hacks at the top, but the professional officer and NCO corps. But it was - and still is - the underlying quality of the American people that allows them to continue running an all-volunteer force that performs well.

Every compliant you voiced was against civilian decision-makers - not against "The Aerican Soldier."

What are your qualifications to disparagingly discuss "the American soldier" anyway? Have you been one? Have you parachuted into Pananma with a planeload of them? Have you commanded a company of US Infantrymen? Have you buried any soldiers? I've done all these things. I've also sat in front of the U.S. Armed Services Committee in Washington, and testified before the Subcommittee on Military Manpower, about soldier retention issues - as an expert on "The American soldier."

Now - I tell you what - you want to see what the bottom line is - you think it's all a phony act - go look at Soldier Funeral - Iraqui Freedom - then come back on here and tell me how its all just a phony act. Look at every photo - do you see the UPS driver?

Note - there are plenty of other nation's soldiers pulling duty honorably alongside US soldiers - no question about it. The British and Canadian soldiers are performing valiantly. And even countries like Spain, Thailand, and Estonia have all paid the blood price in Iraq. And you know what - if some Thai magazine, or an Estonian magazine - wants to put one of their soldiers on the cover to honor their role, I won't be standing by to belittle the decision - or the soldiers.

As Kipling's "Tommy" said, long ago - "And makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep, is cheaper than them uniforms, and they're starvation cheap".

Indo-Siam

[mbkudu]

Indo Siam, I am not mocking or trying cheapen the efforts of soldiers, Quite the opposite actually. My main point is that soldiers, US in particular are being used as propaganda machines for corporations to make billions of dollars. I am 36 years old and have never been a soldier and am in no way trying to disrespect or downplay their work. I just think Time's cover and Bush's appearance in full costume on the aircraft carrier as examples are used almost as publicity stunts.

War is a losing battle, Sir, and it always will be. Peace is fine and dandy for some but for others it is bad business.

[Indo-Siam]

I am utterky unable to look into the hearts of men. And I certainly have no vision into the "heart" of AOL Time Warner. I am as suspicious as any (or more so) of the noble intentions of Big Bucks Media.

But - I will hazard a guess that Time putting the American solder on the cover, and naming them collectively as "Man of the Year" was a reasonably sincere gesture - albeit one that was also intended to win broad favor. I would think very differently if George Bush Jr. was on the cover - or Rumsfeld.

The fact that 500+ US soldiers have died, and well over 2,000 have been wounded - and that lots of Reserve and National Guard troops have served - that means that almost everyone back home knows someone who's had to answer the call - and probably many know someone who has left some blood behind. Whatever people think of the war, I think most Americans are treating the returning soldiers with honor (if not as heros).

My guess is that - in general - civilians around the world who live in war-torn places look up to American soldiers these days as the preferred national armed force to have descend upon you - if you have to be occupied by someone. There are always bad apples, but in general, the US Military these days - right down to thev littlre guys - is about as honorable a military as you are going to find.

Indo-Siam

[Boon Mee]

You as well as I know that the American soldier is one of most used and abused commodities America has at its disposal.

A lot of American military families are really discusted with the present U.S. administration and the callous manner in which they have treated

Try going down to Fort Polk in Louisiana and telling the families of the men who are serving in Iraq that crap! These families are proud of what the American soldier is doing there and in Afganistan. It's those w/out a clue about what they're talking about spouting the above drivel!

[mbkudu]

The title of this forum is food, fun, entertainment ect.. so I think readers have probably had enough, so I'll leave you boys now so you can have fun with your war toys, Bye now!