Wallaby Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Not as simple as that. It depends which 'facts' you want to believe. http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/israel039s-gaza-blockade-continues-suffocate-daily-life-20100118 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuffki Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Not as simple as that. It depends which 'facts' you want to believe. http://www.amnesty.o...y-life-20100118 Actually in depends on footage Hamas had a chance to censor and decided to release and footage shot without Hamas interference(also called amateur video's) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Well whatever you want to call it makes no difference. It depends on what you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midas Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 What type of humanitarian aid will be on the flotilla? Well here is what the Jewish boat will be taking " In coordination with the medical, educational and mental health services in Gaza, the boat will take school bags and books, donated by German schoolchildren; musical instruments and art materials to support the Gaza Community Mental Health Program; nets and tackle for fishermen; and essential medicines and small medical equipment for the civilian population under siege. All participants will be trained in the principles of non-violence." http://www.ajjp.org/jewishboat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 The Palestinians real problem is lack of employment which is directly caused by their leader's suicide bombing campaign which restricted their movement inside Israel and accomplished nothing other than making their lives more miserable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 What type of humanitarian aid will be on the flotilla? Well here is what the Jewish boat will be taking I'm sure that it will be appreciated when legally delivered to the UN and Israeli authorities to be distributed inside Gaza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuffki Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 The activists on flotilla may want to rethink their journey once they learn of the faith of their comrade. Italian activist kidnapped in Gaza by extremists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuffki Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 What type of humanitarian aid will be on the flotilla? Well here is what the Jewish boat will be taking " In coordination with the medical, educational and mental health services in Gaza, the boat will take school bags and books, donated by German schoolchildren; musical instruments and art materials to support the Gaza Community Mental Health Program; nets and tackle for fishermen; and essential medicines and small medical equipment for the civilian population under siege. All participants will be trained in the principles of non-violence." http://www.ajjp.org/jewishboat All the more reason not to worry and have boats diverted to Cyprus for inspection or have it boarded for inspection. Innocent have nothing to hide, guilty of course will object Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 What type of humanitarian aid will be on the flotilla? Well here is what the Jewish boat will be taking " In coordination with the medical, educational and mental health services in Gaza, the boat will take school bags and books, donated by German schoolchildren; musical instruments and art materials to support the Gaza Community Mental Health Program; nets and tackle for fishermen; and essential medicines and small medical equipment for the civilian population under siege. All participants will be trained in the principles of non-violence." http://www.ajjp.org/jewishboat All the more reason not to worry and have boats diverted to Cyprus for inspection or have it boarded for inspection. Innocent have nothing to hide, guilty of course will object Innocents have nothing to hide but can still object, and do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 What type of humanitarian aid will be on the flotilla? Well here is what the Jewish boat will be taking I'm sure that it will be appreciated when legally delivered to the UN and Israeli authorities to be distributed inside Gaza. Why would they have to deliver anything to Israel authorities who have an illegal blockade. That is the whole purpose of the flotilla going to Gaza direct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 (edited) It is not illegal as long as Hamas keeps shooting those rockets and sending in suicide bombers. They are a "hostile entity" which makes the blockade legal. Edited April 15, 2011 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midas Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 What type of humanitarian aid will be on the flotilla? Well here is what the Jewish boat will be taking I'm sure that it will be appreciated when legally delivered to the UN and Israeli authorities to be distributed inside Gaza. i forgot that is ususal procedure... i.e. hand it over to the prison guards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 They would not be restricted to Gaza if they stopped attacking Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 It is not illegal as long as Hamas keeps shooting those rockets and seding in suicide bombers. They are a "hostile entity" which makes the blockade legal. I hope you don't mind if I don't take your word for it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%93present_blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 They would not be restricted to Gaza if they stopped attacking Israel. To make such a statement you must have a very important role in the Israeli govt? Perhaps psychic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 As I said, the defensive blockade is legal and necessary although the usual suspects try to debate the obvious. Even Goldstone admitted that the UN is full of bias against Israel. Palestinians were working in Israel every day before they started sending suicide bombers to blow up cafes and school busses. It is only common sense that this is why they are restricted to their own areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 What type of humanitarian aid will be on the flotilla? Well here is what the Jewish boat will be taking I'm sure that it will be appreciated when legally delivered to the UN and Israeli authorities to be distributed inside Gaza. i forgot that is ususal procedure... i.e. hand it over to the prison guards Yes I see what you mean, Hamas do have a history of confiscating aid to keep people deprived for propaganda reasons and recruitment purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, even anonymously. Best to you it as a method of finding citations than using it as a citation in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 As I said, the defensive blockade is legal and necessary although the usual suspects try to debate the obvious. Even Goldstone admitted that the UN is full of bias against Israel. Palestinians were working in Israel every day before they started sending suicide bombers to blow up cafes and school busses. It is only common sense that this is why they are restricted to their own areas. I don't think you should be saying (twice) that the blockade is legal. Maybe you consider it legal but others do not. But to say outright as fact that it is legal is plainly misleading. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,539363,00.html http://antonyloewenstein.com/2010/06/15/red-cross-calls-the-gaza-blockade-illegal/ http://uk.reuters.com/article/2008/05/28/us-palestinians-israel-tutu-idUSL2849170120080528 There are many sites with similar information, as well as many sites stating the blockade is legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midas Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 (edited) As I said, the defensive blockade is legal and necessary although the usual suspects try to debate the obvious. Even Goldstone admitted that the UN is full of bias against Israel. Palestinians were working in Israel every day before they started sending suicide bombers to blow up cafes and school busses. It is only common sense that this is why they are restricted to their own areas. I don't think you should be saying (twice) that the blockade is legal. Maybe you consider it legal but others do not. But to say outright as fact that it is legal is plainly misleading. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,539363,00.html http://antonyloewenstein.com/2010/06/15/red-cross-calls-the-gaza-blockade-illegal/ http://uk.reuters.com/article/2008/05/28/us-palestinians-israel-tutu-idUSL2849170120080528 There are many sites with similar information, as well as many sites stating the blockade is legal. Since when has Israel ever bothered about any kind of International Law ? As PGPO advisor Datuk Mukhriz Mahathir from Malaysia said about the last flotilla and Israel's actions then :- " The attack by the Israeli navy is not only a form of piracy but also a form of international terrorism " Edited April 15, 2011 by midas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 as well as many sites stating the blockade is legal. There are plenty of legal scholars that say it is legitimate and plenty of legal precedents have been set (the military blockade of nuclear weapons to Cuba for one). On top of that, it is obvious that if it were not there, Hamas would be importing even more and even stronger weapons to shoot at civilians. Hamas obviously meets the criteria of an evil hostile entity and any other country would do the same thing. On a realistic level, what is there to debate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 As PGPO advisor Datuk Mukhriz Mahathir from Malaysia said about the last flotilla and Israel's actions then :- Isn't he a Muslim from a Muslim country that Israelis are not even allowed to visit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 (edited) as well as many sites stating the blockade is legal. There are plenty of legal scholars that say it is legitimate and plenty of legal precedents have been set (the military blockade of nuclear weapons to Cuba for one). On top of that, it is obvious that if it were not there, Hamas would be importing even more and even stronger weapons to shoot at civilians. Hamas obviously meets the criteria of an evil hostile entity and any other country would do the same thing. On a realistic level, what is there to debate? Yes there are many legal scholars that say it is legitimate, and also many that say it isn't. The general consensus is that the law regarding blockades are quite murky. One difference between to the Cuba blockade and the Gaza blockade is that Cuba is a country. Generally speaking, a blockade legal against a country or a state. As Israel does not acknowledge Gaza as a country or a state then the blockade is may not be legal. I think for this reason alone one cannot use the Cuba blockade as a precedent for the Gaza blockade. Though I do stress that the law on blockades are quite murky hence the differing opinions on legality. As one other poster has already noted, since when did Israel take notice of international law anyway. As you say, on a realistic level, I don't think there is too much to debate, most countries would do the same thing as Israel in this instance. However, I think this time Israel will be a bit more conscious of public opinion and may be more 'political' about it instead of being so gung ho. Edited April 15, 2011 by Wallaby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 (edited) Here is one legal defense of the blockade, but as you said there are plenty who disagree. International law authorizes Israel to initiate military countermeasures in Gaza. If Gaza is seen as having independent sovereignty, Israel's use of force is permissible on the grounds of self-defense. If Gaza is seen as lacking any independent sovereignty, Israel's use of military force is permissible as in other non-international conflicts.The rule of "distinction" includes elements of intent and expected result: so long as one aims at legitimate targets, the rule of distinction permits the attack, even if there will be collateral damage to civilians. The rule of "proportionality" also relies upon intent. If Israel plans a strike without expecting excessive collateral damage, the rule of proportionality permits it. Israeli attacks to date have abided by the rules of distinction and proportionality. Israel's imposition of economic sanctions on the Gaza Strip is a perfectly legal means of responding to Palestinian attacks. Since Israel is under no legal obligation to engage in trade of fuel or anything else with Gaza, or to maintain open borders, it may withhold commercial items and seal its borders at its discretion. The bar on collective punishment forbids the imposition of criminal-type penalties to individuals or groups on the basis of another's guilt. None of Israel's actions involve the imposition of criminal-type penalties. There is no legal basis for maintaining that Gaza is occupied territory. The Fourth Geneva Convention refers to territory as occupied where the territory is of a state party to the convention and the occupier "exercises the functions of government" in the territory. Gaza is not territory of another state party to the convention and Israel does not exercise the functions of government in the territory. The fighting in Gaza has been characterized by the extensive commission of war crimes, acts of terrorism and acts of genocide by Palestinians, while Israeli countermeasures have conformed with the requirements of international law. International law requires states to take measures to bring Palestinian war criminals and terrorists to justice, to prevent and punish Palestinian genocidal efforts, and to block the funding of Palestinian terrorist groups and those complicit with them. http://www.zionismon...elf_Defense.htm Edited April 15, 2011 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 As PGPO advisor Datuk Mukhriz Mahathir from Malaysia said about the last flotilla and Israel's actions then :- Isn't he a Muslim from a Muslim country that Israelis are not even allowed to visit? Very good! If they are looking for another song to adapt this should fit the bill. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ket-ndpxhPg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuffki Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 What type of humanitarian aid will be on the flotilla? Well here is what the Jewish boat will be taking I'm sure that it will be appreciated when legally delivered to the UN and Israeli authorities to be distributed inside Gaza. Why would they have to deliver anything to Israel authorities who have an illegal blockade. That is the whole purpose of the flotilla going to Gaza direct. So they do not get kidnapped and killed, just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokeddy Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Why would they have to deliver anything to Israel authorities who have an illegal blockade. That is the whole purpose of the flotilla going to Gaza direct. So they do not get kidnapped and killed, just a thought Who killed the people here? Did you read the OP? "The deadly May 2010 raid on the Gaza flotilla killed nine Turkish activists, causing global outrage for what some said was unnecessary violence. A United Nations Human Rights Council mission ruled in September that Israel used "totally unnecessary violence" and an "unacceptable level of brutality." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuffki Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Why would they have to deliver anything to Israel authorities who have an illegal blockade. That is the whole purpose of the flotilla going to Gaza direct. So they do not get kidnapped and killed, just a thought Who killed the people here? Did you read the OP? "The deadly May 2010 raid on the Gaza flotilla killed nine Turkish activists, causing global outrage for what some said was unnecessary violence. A United Nations Human Rights Council mission ruled in September that Israel used "totally unnecessary violence" and an "unacceptable level of brutality." 1. You are mixing 2 different facts together-but thats normal.http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/460670-italian-activist-kidnapped-in-gaza-by-extremists/ 2. Did you not see the video of soldiers being attacked with metal rods and knives? when they boarded the ship 3. Did you not see IDF soldiers being beaten by 3-4 people? Just out of curiosity why would peaceful activists carry knives and metal batons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Who killed the people here? Did you read the OP? "The deadly May 2010 raid on the Gaza flotilla killed nine Turkish activists, causing global outrage for what some said was unnecessary violence. A United Nations Human Rights Council mission ruled in September that Israel used "totally unnecessary violence" and an "unacceptable level of brutality." UNHRC Well what do you expect from a pig but a grunt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 There's been plenty of moderation on this topicS and typical of every topic that involves Israel/Palestine these topic can never seem to stay on topic. Since it proves impossible over and over and over again, I am going to save us all some stress. //CLOSED// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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