Couple Of Question About Chanot, House Ownership

[srs]

Hi all,

I hope you can help me out here.

At the moment my Thai wife an me are building a small house back in Thailand.

Both of us are not in Thailand but everything is working out smoothly. No problems at all. The architect and supervisor is a person we can trust.

So, really no problems here. ;-)

Now my questions:

1.

What happens after the house is finished? How do you register the ownership of a house in Thailand?

I am asking because the house will be finished in May or June. But we are not sure if my wife can go to Thailand shortly after the house is finished.

Her mom is moving into the house.

But I don't think it is a good idea if my mother-in-law is the house owner since one day when mom dies (god bless her), suddenly there will be a long lost and forgotten son who never took care of her and who is then fighting for the house.

I do not mean to talk bad about Thais at all. This kind of stuff happens in Germany every day.

So I would like my wife to be the owner of the house.

Is it possible to register her brother as the owner first and then - in let's say December 2011 when my wife goes back to Thailand - change the sole ownership to my wife?

Or can we wait with any form of registration until December?

My wife said something about the government institution providing the infrastructure for the electric power. She said they need an ownership regsitration first.

2.

Is it really impossible to sell a land including the Chanot if the initial purchase of the land is not 10 years ago?

My wife said that but I cannot believe it. My understanding would be that you can sell the land anytime but if you do so within the first 10 years there will be a tax on the profit.

Can you confirm? And if so how is the procedure of a sale?

3.

And one more question:

What happens if one day my wife would like to have the German citizenship. Does she loose her land?

Thanks a lot to anybody

[CDNinKS]

I just went thru something similar, so will try and answer your questions.

1) I would assume you have temporary electricity already supplied to the property as this can be done with out a Tambien Baan (House book). You can retain that for as long as you want, even after the house is completed, however the rate for this electricity is higher than a normal after construction connection.

The Tambien Baan is NOT proof of house ownership. House ownership is determined by a combination of who owns the Chanote and who can prove they paid for the actual construction of the house. Normally the Tambien Baan will not be issued until the house is completely finished (this varies from area to area in Thailand). ALL Thai citizens must be registered in a Tambien Baan somewhere, most are in their mothers/fathers, or grandmothers books until they get a house of their own.

Thai's basically can not buy anything large (land, cars, etc)without producing a Tambien Baan that has their name in it.

So, as I see it, unless you have some pressing reason to have the TB issued now, you can wait until your wife gets back to Thailand. Or, have the TB issued in your Mother-in Laws name and just have your wife added to it when she gets back.

2) Sorry can't answer that one.

3) Is Dual citizenship allowed by Germany? Only Thai citizens can own land in Thailand, so as long as your wife does not relinquish her Thai citizenship then she has the right to own land regardless of her marital status or residency.

Hope that helps a bit.....

[katabeachbum]

Tabien Baan can be requested issued when house is completed according to buildingpermit, and usually must be requested within the buildingpermits validity, usually one year. It is issued to the name in buildingpermit, who can become the owner of the house despite not being the owner of the land. It has nothing to do with lands ownership, this is stated in Chanote.

There is no reason to register any resident in Tabien Baan. But if desired, it should be your wife rather than someone else, as the first registered resident in Tabien Baan is the Master of House. MoH decides who can reside in house and MoH signature is needed on everything you need to do with Tabien Baan. Like foreigners Certificate of Residence.

Tabien Baan is needed to change from temp electric meter (5,50 baht/kwh) to permanent electric meter (3,5-4 baht/kwh)

Chanote land title can be sold at any time, and as bare land there will always be tax on profit. 5 years after Tabien Baan is issued and owner of land has been registered in Tabien Baan, house and land can be sold without tax on profit

[Lannatyne]

No Problems?? You've got them, be sure of that.

If you don't get back soon, even for a short visit to check progress and 'finishing' details, you'll get a house that someone else wants - not what you expect. Get over asap, even if it's just for a week.

[InterestedObserver]

1. Your wife needs to get the Tabien Baan issued in her name ASAP. That and her name on the Chanote as landowner assures that the house will remain the wife's property and in her control. Whose name is on the building permit?

2. Land title that was upgraded to full Chanote, say from possessary rights farmland, sometimes will have a ten year restriction on sale. There is always a withholding tax on profits, sometimes even a business tax.

3. NO, not unless she somehow gives up Thai citizenship.

Edited April 14, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[CDNinKS]

Tabien Baan can be requested issued when house is completed according to buildingpermit, and usually must be requested within the buildingpermits validity, usually one year

Like most things in LOS, this varies from area to area. Where we are no one came to see if the house was completed, they just took my wife's word for it.

It is issued to the name in buildingpermit,

I doubt that is true in all circumstances. What if the house was built by a third party (Land/housing developer) and then sold at a later date to a Thai citizen. Obviously the builder would have gotten the building permit in his name.

MoH signature is needed on everything you need to do with Tabien Baan.

Well not everything. When my wife purchased land, she needed to produce a copy of the Tambien Baan she is listed in (her Grandmother's) but no signature of the Grandmother was required. If it has something to do with the actual property that the TB relates to, then yes, that MOH would require to sign.

My wife tells me that as long as a Thai's ID card and copy of TB are the same address then a copy is fine. If they differ then the original TB is required.

I just looked at my wife's TB (and had her translate) the first page is strictly the address of the house, no ones name appears there.

The second page shows my wife's name as the MOH or "owner" of the house and where she moved from (her previous address in the Grandmothers TB)

The second page shows her daughter as "resident" and also the address of her previous TB.

Again, that is my experience and as I say, what works in one place may not be allowed in another........TIT

[InterestedObserver]

I doubt that is true in all circumstances. What if the house was built by a third party (Land/housing developer) and then sold at a later date to a Thai citizen. Obviously the builder would have gotten the building permit in his name.

In that case a sales agreement is executed at the land office between the property purchaser and the developer.

[katabeachbum]

I doubt that is true in all circumstances. What if the house was built by a third party (Land/housing developer) and then sold at a later date to a Thai citizen. Obviously the builder would have gotten the building permit in his name.

In that case a sales agreement is executed at the land office between the property purchaser and the developer.

or the initial building permit can be transfered to (foreign) buyer before issuing Tabien Baan, to make house belongs to buyer even if land does not belong to buyer.

[katabeachbum]

Tabien Baan can be requested issued when house is completed according to buildingpermit, and usually must be requested within the buildingpermits validity, usually one year

Like most things in LOS, this varies from area to area. Where we are no one came to see if the house was completed, they just took my wife's word for it.

It is issued to the name in buildingpermit,

I doubt that is true in all circumstances. What if the house was built by a third party (Land/housing developer) and then sold at a later date to a Thai citizen. Obviously the builder would have gotten the building permit in his name.

MoH signature is needed on everything you need to do with Tabien Baan.

Well not everything. When my wife purchased land, she needed to produce a copy of the Tambien Baan she is listed in (her Grandmother's) but no signature of the Grandmother was required. If it has something to do with the actual property that the TB relates to, then yes, that MOH would require to sign.

My wife tells me that as long as a Thai's ID card and copy of TB are the same address then a copy is fine. If they differ then the original TB is required.

I just looked at my wife's TB (and had her translate) the first page is strictly the address of the house, no ones name appears there.

The second page shows my wife's name as the MOH or "owner" of the house and where she moved from (her previous address in the Grandmothers TB)

The second page shows her daughter as "resident" and also the address of her previous TB.

Again, that is my experience and as I say, what works in one place may not be allowed in another........TIT

but for most of us foreigners our Thai ID cards adress do not match our Tabien Baans, so "signatures from MoH is needed for anything you need Tabien Baan for".

A Tabien Baan without registered resident is easy for a foreigner. With MoH its more complicated

[monty]

I doubt that is true in all circumstances. What if the house was built by a third party (Land/housing developer) and then sold at a later date to a Thai citizen. Obviously the builder would have gotten the building permit in his name.

In that case a sales agreement is executed at the land office between the property purchaser and the developer.

And of course transfer taxes will have to be paid!

If building a single freestanding house, the building permit should be issued to the person eventually owning the house, if not, transfer taxes will be owed later on.

Altough sometimes it is possible to change the name on the building permit during construction (before the issuing of the house book), but depending on your local district office this might be a tad difficult and/or incur "black label" taxes

[katabeachbum]

I doubt that is true in all circumstances. What if the house was built by a third party (Land/housing developer) and then sold at a later date to a Thai citizen. Obviously the builder would have gotten the building permit in his name.

In that case a sales agreement is executed at the land office between the property purchaser and the developer.

And of course transfer taxes will have to be paid!

If building a single freestanding house, the building permit should be issued to the person eventually owning the house, if not, transfer taxes will be owed later on.

Altough sometimes it is possible to change the name on the building permit during construction (before the issuing of the house book), but depending on your local district office this might be a tad difficult and/or incur "black label" taxes

yepp, there are not many Tessabaan willing to transfer buildingpermit without tea money.

Buildingpermit should always be applied for and issued in the name of the person planned to become the owner.

[srs]

Thank you everybody for the input and the help.

1.)

My wife's name is on the building permit. i guess that is a good thing.

Master of the House. That's an interesting term.

So, don't you think it is possible

a) that my wife sends her brother a letter of authorization so that she can be registered as MOH?

or alternatively register her brother as MOH first and later (when she comes to Thailand in let's say 6-8 months) change this registration to her name?

2.)

The Chanote I was referring to really seems to be a land title that was "upgraded from possessary rights farmland".

So there really seems to be this 10 years sales restriction.

Still sounds odd to me since I guess if somebody is broke and cannot buy food at least can say "Hey, at least I am the owner of an area. I just have to survive for 10 years until I can sell it ".

3.) As far as I know Dual citizenship is not allowed in Germany.

But as always there are some exceptions from this rule.

So if Thailand does not release Thai citizens from Thai citizenship she would be able to keep both citizenships.

At the moment I don't see the big advantage of having the German citizenship over having a very strong "permanent alien residency".

Personally I would not want to give up my original citizenship.

Let's see.

Thanks again

[katabeachbum]

Thank you everybody for the input and the help.

1.)

My wife's name is on the building permit. i guess that is a good thing.

Master of the House. That's an interesting term.

So, don't you think it is possible

a) that my wife sends her brother a letter of authorization so that she can be registered as MOH?

or alternatively register her brother as MOH first and later (when she comes to Thailand in let's say 6-8 months) change this registration to her name?

2.)

The Chanote I was referring to really seems to be a land title that was "upgraded from possessary rights farmland".

So there really seems to be this 10 years sales restriction.

Still sounds odd to me since I guess if somebody is broke and cannot buy food at least can say "Hey, at least I am the owner of an area. I just have to survive for 10 years until I can sell it ".

3.) As far as I know Dual citizenship is not allowed in Germany.

But as always there are some exceptions from this rule.

So if Thailand does not release Thai citizens from Thai citizenship she would be able to keep both citizenships.

At the moment I don't see the big advantage of having the German citizenship over having a very strong "permanent alien residency".

Personally I would not want to give up my original citizenship.

Let's see.

Thanks again

If your wife is on the buildingpermit, she can have the Tabien Baan issued. House and land will belong to her. There is no need to register any resident in Tabien Baan, and if there are no residents there is no Master of House. She can register in Tabien Baan later, and as the first registered resident she becomes Master of House

[CDNinKS]

3.) As far as I know Dual citizenship is not allowed in Germany.

Now that I think of it, I have a few South African friends that hold both German and South African passports......

[thaiwanderer]

is the OP sure the land has chanote /NS4J title?

[stgrhe]

1. What happens after the house is finished? How do you register the ownership of a house in Thailand?

Unless you do go to the land office and register the house the house will automatically belong to the land owner, i.e. the person who's name appear on the land title document. All talks about the house book is totally irrelevant with regards to the house ownership.

If the house owner is to be a different person than that of the land owner, than it is best if that person is the one who applies for and gets the building permit in his / her name. Also this person's name should preferably be the buying party in the construction agreement. Finally, proof of payment for the construction helps.

The house can still be split from the land but than the intended house owner needs to verify that payment came from his / her account and the construction agreement should also be in that name.

Much too many foreigners believe they "own" their house on leased or wife's land, but in reality they do not because they haven't done the procedures right.

2. Is it really impossible to sell a land including the Chanot if the initial purchase of the land is not 10 years ago?

There are certain land that previously had one of the lower statuses, and that have been upgraded to chanot, that cannot be transferred within ten years. Maybe that is what you are thinking of.

3. What happens if one day my wife would like to have the German citizenship. Does she loose her land?

No problem as long as your wife keeps her Thai citizenship.