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[aram_niakan]

I live in Bangkok. I have a 12 years old dog. I need to buy her an electrical dog collar but I don't know where can I get it. Please tell me about the pet shop in Bangkok where I can get one. Thanks :jap:

[surayu]

An "electrical dog collar" ?? It's not one of those things that gives an electroshock everytime a dog barks, right?

[aram_niakan]

An "electrical dog collar" ?? It's not one of those things that gives an electroshock everytime a dog barks, right?

Yes, it is. My neighbor start to complain about my dog's barking.Do you know where I can buy in Bangkok?

[surayu]

Aram i understand you have a problem there, but resorting to torture your pet (that's what it is in the end) i don't think it's the appropriate choice, look for other means, maybe a professional dog's trainer, i don't know what your living situation is, but giving away your dog or relocate it's a much better choice.

[isanbirder]

An "electrical dog collar" ?? It's not one of those things that gives an electroshock everytime a dog barks, right?

Yes, it is. My neighbor start to complain about my dog's barking.Do you know where I can buy in Bangkok?

These things are cruel, and should be banned; no pet owner should use one on his "beloved" dog. Instead, try to find out why the dog is barking, and cure the problem at source (e.g. is he left alone a lot, and therefore lonely? is he bored?).

[aram_niakan]

You think that I like to do that? She is like my daughter, I can die for her. So weird, even there are too many dogs and dog lovers in Thailand, I have lots of problem here. There are so many limitation, I can't walk her in the street because the street dogs attacks us.Now my front door neighbor who is a lonely middle aged woman, says that my dogs barks when somebody passes my door. For god sake, it's a dog, what does she expect. I don't have any other option right now, I can't give her to somebody else and I can't move to other place now.

When ever I wanna move to a new place, it takes me weeks to find a landlord who allows me to keep her in my room. fuc_k that, I'm so tired of these people who can't see anything except MONEY.

[BuckarooBanzai]

I can really empathize with your situation. I have 6 dogs but live in the country and do not have to worry about next door neighbors. All I can recommend is to see a good and reputable veterinarian and get their advice. Sometimes collars can be effective but only if used under supervision for training. Even the dog whisperer has used them on occasion. But do not use unless you are there and in control. Best of luck with your pet.

[WarpSpeed]

Aram i understand you have a problem there, but resorting to torture your pet (that's what it is in the end) i don't think it's the appropriate choice, look for other means, maybe a professional dog's trainer, i don't know what your living situation is, but giving away your dog or relocate it's a much better choice.

Oh geeeeezzz, so much over-reaction, or he/she could just kick it out the door to become one of the other soi dogs on the street too. "Torture" is a bit harsh for a description, it's a conditioned response, not torture, if the dog doesn't bark it doesn't get shocked so it learns what bad behavior to avoid.

Having said that now, there are a number of other techniques to be applied long before having to resort to what I would consider to be a last resort and very often not required but it's up to the owner too as you also need to be trained properly and commit to correcting the dogs bad behavior by applying those techniques...

Something like this is far more effective and dog friendly..

Ultrasonic barking control

[surayu]

Oh geeeeezzz, so much over-reaction,

Over reacting? if you are not convinced, why don't you try it on yourself first? and if you enjoy it so much, i got an electrode welding machine handy, for some more solid sensations.... If in EU they are banning this animal torture with fines of 20.000 Pounds and 6 months in prison it must to be a reason for it.

Letting your dog have a choice to go away from his torturer surely is a less bad choice.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Oh geeeeezzz, so much over-reaction,

Over reacting? if you are not convinced, why don't you try it on yourself first? and if you enjoy it so much, i got an electrode welding machine handy, for some more solid sensations.... If in EU they are banning this animal torture with fines of 20.000 Pounds and 6 months in prison it must to be a reason for it.

Letting your dog have a choice to go away from his torturer surely is a less bad choice.

There is a very simple solution to torture taking place in the EU. Have the government approve of humane electrical distraction devices and take the actions you are talking about with those that are not humane. A very mild electrical current is a distraction and not a torture. If the collars you are used to are something other than mild than they should be banned. But your response to the procedure is excessive as it certainly does not need to be torture. And yes, I have been exposed to the intense tingling of these devices and they are quite effective but certainly not a torture as long as they are designed correctly. Keep your welder to yourself.

[WarpSpeed]

Oh geeeeezzz, so much over-reaction,

Over reacting? if you are not convinced, why don't you try it on yourself first? and if you enjoy it so much, i got an electrode welding machine handy, for some more solid sensations.... If in EU they are banning this animal torture with fines of 20.000 Pounds and 6 months in prison it must to be a reason for it.

Letting your dog have a choice to go away from his torturer surely is a less bad choice.

Completely ignored the rest of my post to zero in on the one thing you felt was disagreeable and offensive eh?? Most would call that trolling but hey I expected no less considering your first over-reaction .

There's a lot of things I won't try on myself like tick or flea spray, or eat dog food either but that doesn't qualify them as torture, rather just me as smart enough not to require being fed or trained like an animal for me to know the difference..

[WarpSpeed]

Oh geeeeezzz, so much over-reaction,

Over reacting? if you are not convinced, why don't you try it on yourself first? and if you enjoy it so much, i got an electrode welding machine handy, for some more solid sensations.... If in EU they are banning this animal torture with fines of 20.000 Pounds and 6 months in prison it must to be a reason for it.

Letting your dog have a choice to go away from his torturer surely is a less bad choice.

There is a very simple solution to torture taking place in the EU. Have the government approve of humane electrical distraction devices and take the actions you are talking about with those that are not humane. A very mild electrical current is a distraction and not a torture. If the collars you are used to are something other than mild than they should be banned. But your response to the procedure is excessive as it certainly does not need to be torture. And yes, I have been exposed to the intense tingling of these devices and they are quite effective but certainly not a torture as long as they are designed correctly. Keep your welder to yourself.

Yes, obviously I agree, I to have been shocked and it isn't fun nor pleasant but that is the whole idea isn't it? But it isn't torture either, far from it it's more of an irritation then anything else and a complete over-reaction..

Edited April 20, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[surayu]

http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/shockcollars

Shock Collars - The Shocking Truth

APBC There are now a number of ‘quick fix’ products available to dog owners who wish to modify the behaviour of their pet. One such device is the electric collar. The Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors feels that the use of devices that rely on pain or discomfort to modify behaviour are inappropriate as they have the potential to seriously compromise the welfare of dogs, and ruin the relationship with their owners.

Shock Collar Risks

Despite advances in our understanding of dog behaviour and training, and the general move towards reward-based training techniques, some people still continue to recommend the use of punishment as the best method of training or dealing with behaviour problems. While shock collars can work to suppress behaviour, their use comes with unacceptable risks, and inevitably the underlying reasons for the problem behaviour are not dealt with. Even in experienced hands, it can be difficult to deliver shocks at the right moment and to predict the level of discomfort or pain experienced by a dog; in inexperienced hands the use of shock collars can often result in poorly timed intense electric shocks that induce fear and ongoing anxiety in the dog. Owners are often unaware of the high levels of pain that they may be causing their dog.

Aggression and Shock Collars

One of the most common behaviour problems encountered with dogs is that of aggression. In many cases, aggression is motivated by fear. When a dog is nervous or frightened, a natural behavioural strategy is to use aggression to get rid of the “threat”. Placing a shock collar on such a dog to stop it being aggressive can result in the dog becoming even more fearful of the situation, which can make the aggression more likely in the future. The use of a shock collar to try and stop aggressive behaviour can also suppress the warning signs displayed by a dog before it is aggressive, which can make the behaviour of the dog less predictable and more dangerous.

Barking and Shock Collars

The risks of using an electric shock to modify behaviour extend to the treatment of other behaviour problems in dogs such as barking. Dogs learn by association - when using a shock collar there is always a risk that the dog may associate the shock with something other than the behaviour that people are trying to stop. For instance, if a shock is administered for barking, there is a danger that the dog might associate a nearby child with the pain of the shock, rather than its own barking. This could lead to the dog developing distrust or even fear of children. Another significant risk with the use of shock collars is that rather than linking the shock to the wrong thing, a dog may not be able to link the shock to anything at all! This often results in the dog becoming totally confused, anxious and stressed as it repeatedly suffers the pain of the electric shock for no apparent reason.

The APBC feels that behaviour problems can be best addressed through behaviour modification programmes based on an understanding of the motivation for each dog’s behaviour, and the use of humane, reward-based training methods.

[Nienke]

OP, does your dog bark when she hears or sees something? If it is when she sees something maybe prevent that by putting in her in a room in the back of the house, or in the back garden?

If she barks when she hears something, keeping the television or radio on while you are away, can help sometimes.

These are just suggestions. Sometimes a simple change in management comes along way, and then you do not need to resort to devices like anti-bark collars.

ONLY after one have tried ALL dog-friendly behavior modification methods and they have failed, and also a change in management doesn't do the trick, one may resort to an anti-bark collar. (assuming that the dog owner really has the best in mind for his or her dog).

One way to go is consulting a dog behaviorist. Patrick Bundock is in Bangkok and has been mentioned already several times on this forum and comes highly recommended. I do not have his contact details but you can do a search on 'dog training bangkok'.

[aram_niakan]

Edited April 21, 2011 by aram_niakan

[aram_niakan]

I have found Patrick Bundock in Facebook but still I haven't get any response. I turn on the TV when I wanna leave but it doesn't work. I live in a single room so it doesn't have any other room to put her in. None of the other neighbors in my floor complained except one of them. I know my dog she doesn't bark that much when I leave cause I trained her when she was a puppy. But this woman wants to complain in any way.

Edited April 21, 2011 by aram_niakan

[aram_niakan]

OP, does your dog bark when she hears or sees something? If it is when she sees something maybe prevent that by putting in her in a room in the back of the house, or in the back garden?

If she barks when she hears something, keeping the television or radio on while you are away, can help sometimes.

These are just suggestions. Sometimes a simple change in management comes along way, and then you do not need to resort to devices like anti-bark collars.

ONLY after one have tried ALL dog-friendly behavior modification methods and they have failed, and also a change in management doesn't do the trick, one may resort to an anti-bark collar. (assuming that the dog owner really has the best in mind for his or her dog).

One way to go is consulting a dog behaviorist. Patrick Bundock is in Bangkok and has been mentioned already several times on this forum and comes highly recommended. I do not have his contact details but you can do a search on 'dog training bangkok'.

I have found Patrick Bundock in Facebook but still I haven't get any response. I turn on the TV when I wanna leave but it doesn't work. I live in a single room so it doesn't have any other room to put her in. None of the other neighbors in my floor complained except one of them. I know my dog she doesn't bark that much when I leave cause I trained her when she was a puppy. But this woman wants to complain in any way.

[LeCharivari]

............ I live in a single room so it doesn't have any other room to put her in. ....... I know my dog she doesn't bark that much when I leave cause I trained her when she was a puppy.

Sorry, Aram, but you don't "know" what your dog does unless you have checked; what you trained her to do 12 years ago may be very different from what she does now.

First, either get a video camera or a simple tape recorder and check what she does. If you don't know you can't correct it.

Second, ask your other neighbours. Maybe they are all annoyed but only one is prepared to complain. Maybe some kick your door; maybe some shout at her; maybe some try to calm her down; you simply don't know.

If she is left alone in a room with nothing to do and she barks every time someone walks past the door it is unlikely to be out of fear and far more likely to be from separation anxiety. You said that "She is like my daughter, I can die for her"; I can respect that, but the problem is that you have probably spent the last 12 years conditioning her so that she now thinks that she is your baby and you are her mother.

I am guessing, but have you made a fuss of her every time you go out ("don't worry, baby, mummy will be back soon, etc")? Do you make a fuss of her every time you come back ("I told you I'd be back, etc")? Sorry, but if so you have caused the problem. You're her world and when you're away she doesn't know what to do without your attention and every time someone goes past the door she's calling for help.

This is not an easy problem to solve, and "torture" arguments aside a shock collar is almost certainly not the answer here. If she barks every time someone passes the door then she would get a shock every time someone passes the door; she may associate the shock with barking, but most dogs wouldn't associate the shock first with something they've done but with something else that's happened at the same time. To you, she gets a shock when she barks - simple. To her, though, she's been left alone, she barks because she wants attention when someone passes the door, and now every time someone goes past she gets an electric shock into the bargain - What's mummy done?? Help me, someone!!

Once you know what happens you can start to correct it, but this will take time - you don't change 12 years of conditioning in a few days or even a few weeks.

First, talk to your neighbours and explain that you are trying to do something; if any of them shout at her when they go past, or equally if any try to calm her down, explain that they are making things worse and the best thing they can do is to ignore her. Explain what you are trying to do.

Second, play it cool when you go out and when you come back; don't make a big deal of it or you will pass your anxiety on to her. Pay less and less attention to her before you go out, and minimise the affection. When you come back, just ignore her for a few minutes; unpack the shopping, and above all avoid eye contact. When she has settled down, then make a fuss of her.

This will work, but the problem is that it will work eventually; unfortunately there is no way of speeding up the process and there is no "quick fix". It takes time and if one of your neighbours is already complaining you may not have time. I hate to put it forward as an option, since it may not even be one, but your only solution may be one which will inevitably make the problem worse in the long term: if you have no other option you may have to leave your dog with a friend every time you go out. Its not a genuine solution, its addressing the symptom and not the problem, and it will make solving the problem properly far more difficult later, but if your only other options are to get rid of your dog or your apartment to get rid of you then you may not have any choice.

[aram_niakan]

............ I live in a single room so it doesn't have any other room to put her in. ....... I know my dog she doesn't bark that much when I leave cause I trained her when she was a puppy.

Sorry, Aram, but you don't "know" what your dog does unless you have checked; what you trained her to do 12 years ago may be very different from what she does now.

First, either get a video camera or a simple tape recorder and check what she does. If you don't know you can't correct it.

Second, ask your other neighbours. Maybe they are all annoyed but only one is prepared to complain. Maybe some kick your door; maybe some shout at her; maybe some try to calm her down; you simply don't know.

If she is left alone in a room with nothing to do and she barks every time someone walks past the door it is unlikely to be out of fear and far more likely to be from separation anxiety. You said that "She is like my daughter, I can die for her"; I can respect that, but the problem is that you have probably spent the last 12 years conditioning her so that she now thinks that she is your baby and you are her mother.

I am guessing, but have you made a fuss of her every time you go out ("don't worry, baby, mummy will be back soon, etc")? Do you make a fuss of her every time you come back ("I told you I'd be back, etc")? Sorry, but if so you have caused the problem. You're her world and when you're away she doesn't know what to do without your attention and every time someone goes past the door she's calling for help.

This is not an easy problem to solve, and "torture" arguments aside a shock collar is almost certainly not the answer here. If she barks every time someone passes the door then she would get a shock every time someone passes the door; she may associate the shock with barking, but most dogs wouldn't associate the shock first with something they've done but with something else that's happened at the same time. To you, she gets a shock when she barks - simple. To her, though, she's been left alone, she barks because she wants attention when someone passes the door, and now every time someone goes past she gets an electric shock into the bargain - What's mummy done?? Help me, someone!!

Once you know what happens you can start to correct it, but this will take time - you don't change 12 years of conditioning in a few days or even a few weeks.

First, talk to your neighbours and explain that you are trying to do something; if any of them shout at her when they go past, or equally if any try to calm her down, explain that they are making things worse and the best thing they can do is to ignore her. Explain what you are trying to do.

Second, play it cool when you go out and when you come back; don't make a big deal of it or you will pass your anxiety on to her. Pay less and less attention to her before you go out, and minimise the affection. When you come back, just ignore her for a few minutes; unpack the shopping, and above all avoid eye contact. When she has settled down, then make a fuss of her.

This will work, but the problem is that it will work eventually; unfortunately there is no way of speeding up the process and there is no "quick fix". It takes time and if one of your neighbours is already complaining you may not have time. I hate to put it forward as an option, since it may not even be one, but your only solution may be one which will inevitably make the problem worse in the long term: if you have no other option you may have to leave your dog with a friend every time you go out. Its not a genuine solution, its addressing the symptom and not the problem, and it will make solving the problem properly far more difficult later, but if your only other options are to get rid of your dog or your apartment to get rid of you then you may not have any choice.

Thanks a lot, you have analyzed very well. you're right, I am her world and she is my world. Whenever I live she doesn't eat or EVEN drink water till I come home. She just waits till I arrive. She also sleeps in my bed. That is my mistake to make her totally dependent on myself.

I like not to pay her attention for few minutes till she gets calm the time that I arrive, but she starts barking till I hug her. I can't stop hugging her cause she continues barking and I afraid of neighbors.

The other thing which is so annoying is when I'm not home she pisses in the room,honestly I gave up cause I couldn't stop her from doing that. so I cover my bed and carpet with plastic. I don't blame her but I blame myself. She behaves exactly lke a baby she knows my weaknesses and uses them to complain about her needs. When she is with one of my friends she behaves differently. you have guessed correctly, I make a fuss of her when I leave or come back.

But I got your advices and try to manage it better. :jap:

Edited April 22, 2011 by aram_niakan

[skybluestu]

You want to put an electric collar on your 12yr old dog you've raised since she was a puppy?! So sad!

[dotx]

I'm sorry but who cares about the neighbors? Are you leaving the dog alone at night or is this during the day? If it's during the day, I would ignore the neighbors. Honestly, I care more about my dogs than I do my neighbors. If they don't want to hear the dog, THEY can turn the TV up. Unless the dog is barking constantly (and it seems like she isn't --the neighbor said she barks when somebody walks by the door. How often does that happen) and throughout the night, the neighbors are just being babies.

Let me give you an example: I don't like children. I particularly don't like noisy children, the kind that scream and shriek and cry for everything. But if my neighbor has a noisy kid, what exactly can I do? I would probably ask the neighbor to put a shock collar on the kid, but I don't think they'd do it. Why should the dog situation be any different?

[LeCharivari]

I'm sorry but who cares about the neighbors? .....

The landlord?

Aram, there's no point in beating yourself up over how you have brought her up over the past 12 years - others will probably be only too happy to do that for you and you are aware of any mistakes anyway. Make the most of your relationship - genuine love is hard to find, wherever it comes from.

I'd love to be able to say that if you do this or that then your problems will be solved, but they won't. 12 years is a long time for a dog to get used to one way of doing things and changing things will take time; you can teach an old dog new tricks, but this isn't about learning a trick, its about changing a whole way of life.

Don't worry about her sleeping in your bed. My Basset dog was identified with incurable distemper as a young puppy (about 4 months) and given weeks to live by a number of vets; there's no treatment so when he started going downhill he slept in my bed every night and was carried on our walks every day. That was 10 years ago and now he's "boss dog" and in perfect health - he gave up sleeping in my bed after 3 months, though, but after 12 years of sharing a bed with your baby there's simply no point in changing the arrangement.

If she "pisses in the room" when you go out but not when you're there its probably all part of the same problem. House-training is a whole separate issue and varies from dog to dog: my Bassets are the only ones allowed indoors and they all learnt within 24 hours, but one of the girls is so frightened of going to the vet (any vet) that she'll P as soon as she goes through the door (and usually S as well), and her sister is nearly as bad; the male Basset hates the vet's too (but not the vet), but the other dogs couldn't care less. Checking what happens when you are away should also either tell you if someone is kicking your door and frightening her so she P's, or if you can rule that out. If that's not happening its probably all part of the separation anxiety and the solution (long term) is the same.

The problem is that, like it or not, you do have to care about your neighbours or risk being asked to leave and face the problem of re-locating, or worse. You have to be realistic about that. Ignoring your neighbours isn't going to earn you any friends or encourage them to be patient, but letting them know that you are trying your best to do what you can just might. It may not make any difference to the one neighbour opposite, but if the others are sympathetic (or at least indifferent) this should minimise any problems.

Remember that it will take a long time for your training to have an effect and you may not see any effect at all for some time. If things get worse with the neighbour(s) and there is no other option then you may have to do as I suggested and admit defeat and leave her with a friend when you go out. This should be a last resort as it will almost certainly mean that you are stuck with that solution for ever, but it may be an idea to sound out your friends with the possibility now rather than leave it until you are forced to and time is short. You never know - explaining the position to your neighbours just may turn up someone unexpectedly who would like to take care of her while you are out.

I am not taking sides on the shock collar issue (at least not in this thread) but I don't think that this is an option for you; not only do I doubt if it will work under these circumstances but I think it could easily make the problem worse.

Good luck.

[isanbirder]

Aram, are you sure what your neighbour is objecting to is really the barking and not the smell? (If the dog pisses in the room) This is a serious suggestion; please read on.

Some while ago, a neighbour in Chiangmai complained that my partner was letting off fireworks. This is Loy Krathong, he said, and everybody around is letting off fireworks. A Thai friend later explained to me that Thai people will often not tell the truth when they are complaining... and what she really wanted to complain about was my dogs barking. She wanted to complain, but she didn't want to be offensive. I know this sounds wildly illogical to us, but I'm just telling the story as it was.

Whatever the problem really is, you've got a helluva job correcting it with a 12-year-old dog. The best of luck!

[xen]

Sorry if it appears fivilous but is the treatment based on Pavlov's Dog (a textbook experiment in the fifties using reward & punishment for behaviour modification.)

[LeCharivari]

Most animal training is based on conditioning, xen, rather than critical thinking. It leaves less room for error and is more reliable, with the thinking being done by the trainer/handler.

In military terms it would be the difference between "instant reaction" and "blind obedience".

..... and Pavlov's experiments on mental conditioning, which included the use of electric shocks and would be banned today (particularly as he also experimented on children) actually date from the 90's - the 1890's.

[bina]

not able to post much recently but this thread was getting a little rough, so...

everyone here has overlooked one main point. the dog is 12 years old which is fairly old for a dog, therefore, hearing, eyesight and urinary tract dont work the same. peeing in the house may mean she needs to go out more frequently now that she is older. older dogs seem to bark more at wierder things, perhaps because their hearing becomes impaired or their vision, so they are more nervous and react more to noises that previously were 'usual' noises.

shock collars are inaffective anyhow if u arent around to use it properly since many dogs learn to ignore the small zaps that they get from them. and the heavy duty kinds i wouldnt use on a 12 year old dog anyhow. they are last resort items for people that know how to use them and for dogs that it would be appropriate to use them on, usually not pampered house dogs.

tv/radio on tends to create white noise for the dog to hear, blocking out the sounds of people going up and down stairs, closing doors, whatever. dog sitter coming to take the dog out for a bit might help with the peeing issue, as well as the 'boredom' issue.

finding out what the issue is with the one neighbhor might also help find a resolution to the problem... ah, just read that lacharivari also mentioned that attitude also... but he is correct,sometimes people react better when u explain the situation.

how about some new playtoys that are more 'interactive' like kongs filled with tasty smells to keep her busier doing doggy stuff rather then just standing at the door and barking; u didnt specify breed btw, or maybe i missed it, but also, get her vetted for pain/arthritis, as dogs that feel chronic pain also have behavioral problems that seem bizarre . perhaps she stands in one spot for long periods because her legs hurt, so she stands and barks... i also treated a dog at the vet that barked endlessly and it turned out that the dog had a tumour in his head causing, among other things, endless barking at nothing,due to neurological problems. a far out idea but not to be overlooked since she is an older dog.

reminder to all others here, behave yourselves please, refrain from automotially assuming the worst from a person who is just trying to solve a problem in the only fashion they had heard about.

bina

israel

[LeCharivari]

........ everyone here has overlooked one main point. the dog is 12 years old which is fairly old for a dog,

"everyone", Bina?

" Aram, there's no point in beating yourself up over how you have brought her up over the past 12 years ............ you don't change 12 years of conditioning in a few days or even a few weeks.............12 years is a long time for a dog to get used to one way of doing things and changing things will take time; you can teach an old dog new tricks, but this isn't about learning a trick, its about changing a whole way of life. .........after 12 years of sharing a bed with your baby there's simply no point in changing the arrangement."

And I think, in my defence, its a little unfair to say that we "all" assumed the worst from Aram although you are right in some cases, as I expected ("Aram, there's no point in beating yourself up ....... others will probably be only too happy to do that for you").

Now that I've had my little cry , I do think you've got one particularly valid point that I missed. Its quite possible that she may have arthritis, etc (I do) which needs checking, as well as the other physical problems you mentioned, but its also possible that she may not have anywhere comfortable to sleep when Aram is out. She may not be able to get on to her normal bed (Aram's), so there may not be anywhere else where she can curl up comfortably. Try making up a "day-bed" for her, possibly with that old puppy trick of a loudly ticking clock under a pillow; she may hate it, and she'll cetainly take some time to get used to it, but its worth trying anything that won't make things worse.

Oh, and welcome back, Bina!

[bina]

hi, no i didnt mean anyone overlooked the age but what the age meant.... as in, old physically. depending on the breed, 12 can be down right ancient (boxes etc dont seemt o age well)...

and yes, partially able to get on the forum... apparently internet issues wont be cured overnight here,all involving committees, decisions, companies etc... arhg.......

[bodunchar]

Hi Aram

How is your dog now?

Electrical dog collars are designed by people who saw a profitable niche in a market. They are not made by people who love and understand dogs. Does that make sense to you as a reason why an electrical dog collar is not needed? The chances are if your dog gets a shock it will cry.

How much time do you have to spend with the dog?

Because this is what it comes down to. You spending time with the dog to train the dog. The rest is easy.

A dog should only bark when there is danger to you. Somebody passing your door is not danger to you and the dog need not bark. If there is a loud noise at the door, or someone surprises your cute sleeping dog at night (house thief) then the dog can bark and dine on the thief..

Dog barking is a serious nuisance and has lead to people killing people. You want to make people upset or poison your dog? I know you dont so train your dog.

Have you taken the time to understand some basic dog psychology?

If you did, you would know dogs only "live in the moment". You cannot punish them after they have done something undesirable. You have to correct them during the event or not at all.

Also if you do not pay the dog enough attention, it will do something naughty, because it would rather you punish it than completely ignore it.

Most dogs hate water sprayed in their face. Each time the dog barks be ready with a very small water pistol and squirt the dog (tiny amount one drop is enough) once saying NO or whatever in a dominating tone. The water should distract the dog from what it was barking at and break its concentration. The tone of your voice is the most important thing. Get mean in your tone of voice. If you clap your hands and squirt the dog at the same time, the dog will soon learn that clapping hands means a squirt of water is coming and will stop what its doing.

You can also you noise in a similar way. For example using something the dog knows by sound but does not like (and does not bark at). Use your imagination.

Repeat until the dog learns. In the future you can make your hand like a pistol and point it at the dog and say your strong word ( no need for water which is only temporary). Trust me the dog will not want to bark.

Dogs are social animals. They do not like to be left alone. When left alone they will cry for no reason other than to say "where are you mistress I want to give you my love and I feel lonely". TV;s and radios sometimes work, but another dog would be better - but this may double your problem unless you learn to train them.

Maybe the dog thinks it is the boss in the house. You must be the boss.

Woof woof!

[F1fanatic]

I'm v fortunate insofar as I live in an isolated area so my dogs can run free. I'd actually prefer they didn't, but I rent and the walls are way too low for them not to hop over.

ALL of my dogs bark when anyone comes near my house and, as a single woman, I appreciate it. They wouldn't hurt anyone, but any 'would be' burglar would think twice before doing so.

Unfortunately one of my dogs started barking and chasing motorbikes as they left the area... Obviously the other dogs joined in...

So.... a friend of mine brought me back two e-collars from the USA. I thought they were both 'vibrate' collars but was horrified to find that one was a static shock collar.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I have used the vibrate collar on two of my dogs (who no longer bark at departing motorbikes) and the static shock collar on the ring-leader (who ignored the vibrate collar).

Its a FAR better solution than some annoyed stranger putting down poison 'cos they don't like your dogs.

p.s. its worked so well that I'm now going to get a remote control e-collar to stop the 'top' dog from killing everthing she can chase... She even killed a monitor lizard recently that was over a metre long.... The poor old skinks stand no chance - but to make it worse, she doesn't kill them, she just bites off their legs... I am determined to put a stop to this. But I've no doubt some posters will tell me I'm cruel.

Edited June 10, 2011 by F1fanatic