How Young Is Too Young To Become A Mother?

[IanForbes]

In reply to the "other" topic about old men becoming fathers, how young is too young to become a mother? I see lots of young Thai girls barely out of puberty having children to their part timeThai boyfriends. Who bails out those poor young girls in Thailand? Why don't mothers teach their young daughters the facts of life? If all the young women who go to Pattaya, to earn money for their families back home, insist on condoms AFTER they've had children, why didn't they insist on condoms BEFORE they had their first child at age 12 or 13?

[cdnmatt]

I have a pregnant 15yo (maybe 16 by now?) living here, who's too scared to walk to the market 500m away by herself (very safe area), and can't rub 50 baht together. Husband and soon-to-be dad is a conscript. I'd say that's too young, but hey, what do I know?

Edited April 23, 2011 by cdnmatt

[manarak]

Ian might be onto something here, which some would consider to be an argument against the use of condoms by young thai girls in the villages.

If they did, there would be less girls in bars having to feed their children raised by mama.

A general answer is difficult though.

the legal minimum age varies from one country to another

the medical minimum age varies from one person to another

and the logical minimum age from one situation to another.

[roamer]

If your in your teens your too young to be a mother. End off. Final. If your still a kid you shouldn't be having a kid.

Not sure how much sex education helps; its pretty well delivered in the UK with contraceptive methods available before and after (morning after pill + abortion free on demand) without question or stigma, still has the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe.

In the UK its a "chav" thing, in the US, well try this on for size:

" Chavs are like what you call trailer trash or rednecks, but with a bit of wigga/ghetto mixed in.

The people who appear on the Jerry Springer show - ie all the fat uneducated rednecks who've been caught sleeping with their wives' sisters etc - they would be considered chavs if they lived in the UK. We have a similar sort of show called "The Jeremy Kyle Show" which features lots of horrible chavs arguing about paternity tests and suchlike.

They are the same class of person as trailer trash but they often dress like wiggas/ghetto. The live in council housing (socialised housing provided by the Government) rather than trailer parks.

They are associated with crime, drug/alcohol use, teenage pregnancy, welfare benefit dependency and generally being stupid, uneducated and ignorant like trailer trash is in America, but they are more urban than rednecks - they look like wiggas because they often wear sportsgear (they also LOVE anything "Burberry" which is a check print) cheap, fake gold "bling" and listen to rap music, but they are the same sort of people who would be trailer trash in America.

So its sort of a mix of trailer trash and ghetto!

They are hated because they are usually lazy people who don't work and live off welfare benefits, popping out lots of babies who the taxpayer has to support (remember our system is much more "socialist" than yours and benefits are more generous.) They are usually ignorant and ill-educated and a lot of the young men are involved in petty crime, drugs, getting into fights, drinking etc. The girls concentrate on popping out as many babies as they can to get more welfare benefits. Generally they are seen as a scourge on society, a sign of everything that is going wrong in the UK today.

Chavs are not gangsters (although they would like to think they are because the they idolise that sort of culture). Gangsters are much more sinister than chavs. Chavs are usually too stupid and lazy to do anything other than petty crime.

The best American example of a chav I can think of would be Eminem. Britney Spears is pretty "chavvy" too . . ."

Ok its a Yahoo answers question but no less valid for that

How relevant is this to LOS ? Well firstly Thailand has its chav's, many of you sleep with them. If you come away from that the general lack of support, knowledge, help,available in Thailand, probably means later is better.

BTW Ian, as we all know, the guy can just walk away.....

Edited April 23, 2011 by roamer

[nocturn]

you all know what wrong is, the question need not be asked.

[473geo]

Interesting.......is your new 20 year old bride too young to be the 'mother' to any children from a previous relationship?

[nocturn]

Interesting.......is your new 20 year old bride too young to be the 'mother' to any children from a previous relationship?

20 year old bride? not sure where you got that, but run with it if you wish.

[473geo]

Interesting.......is your new 20 year old bride too young to be the 'mother' to any children from a previous relationship?

20 year old bride? not sure where you got that, but run with it if you wish.

Well the other thread was about being too old to be a father, so surely a similar question would be the one I have asked? I do not recall the other thread asking if the older man should be educated to use condoms......

I guess the suggestion is there in a roundabout way maybe..........perhaps some would advocate castration?.......

But in answer to the question raised......I have no experience of young mothers so have no idea......

[cdnvic]

" Chavs are like what you call trailer trash or rednecks, but with a bit of wigga/ghetto mixed in.

The people who appear on the Jerry Springer show - ie all the fat uneducated rednecks who've been caught sleeping with their wives' sisters etc - they would be considered chavs if they lived in the UK. We have a similar sort of show called "The Jeremy Kyle Show" which features lots of horrible chavs arguing about paternity tests and suchlike

I always saw chavs as phoney idiots. They go out of their way to act dumber than they really are, almost to the point of self parody. Sort of like 12yr olds trying to act cool. Where Springer trailer trash are truly stupid people who are exploited.

As for the rest, I wholeheartedly agree, if you are still a teen, you're too young, and usually too immature. There are exceptions to the rule but they are certainly in minority.

[roamer]

" Chavs are like what you call trailer trash or rednecks, but with a bit of wigga/ghetto mixed in.

The people who appear on the Jerry Springer show - ie all the fat uneducated rednecks who've been caught sleeping with their wives' sisters etc - they would be considered chavs if they lived in the UK. We have a similar sort of show called "The Jeremy Kyle Show" which features lots of horrible chavs arguing about paternity tests and suchlike

I always saw chavs as phoney idiots. They go out of their way to act dumber than they really are, almost to the point of self parody. Sort of like 12yr olds trying to act cool. Where Springer trailer trash are truly stupid people who are exploited.

As for the rest, I wholeheartedly agree, if you are still a teen, you're too young, and usually too immature. There are exceptions to the rule but they are certainly in minority.

"I always saw chavs as phoney idiots."

I do so agree with you, but lets face it we could have a whole new forum on that point.

[jazzbo]

12:30 PM in BC and this is all you have to do? ... must be bored out of your wits.

[Ulysses G.]

I always saw chavs as phoney idiots.

Is Ali G. a chav? I kind of like him.

Respect!

[JurgenG]

One of my neighbor in Isaan has two daughters, who were at the time 16 and 18 y.o. The oldest is dumb and lazy, dropped from school and couldn't handle a steady job. The youngest was smart and willing to work. She was doing relatively well at school and wanted to continue to study. Her parents said sorry, we have no money, you have to work.

Then the oldest one got pregnant with an other useless guy like her. Suddenly her parents found the money to get her a house, everybody was taking care of her. She even wanted a washing machine (!?) and she got it !

The youngest one went to Bangkok to work. Three month later, she was back, pregnant !

The problem is worldwide. Doesn't matter how you call them, Chavs, trash ... The problem is their values. Because nothing is written at birth. One of my Thai colleague in her forties told me her family was too poor to support two daughters, so her older sister drop from school and start working so she can go to university. Now she supports her daughter's kids and she was very proud recently because her nephew just enter medical school.

[IanForbes]

12:30 PM in BC and this is all you have to do? ... must be bored out of your wits.

You're right. I was cutting the lawn for the first time in 6 months. I just came in for lunch and decided to check the forum. I'm always amused at some people's polarized ideas about what goes on in Thailand and that should be replaced by western cultures.

By the way, I watched a great movie the other night, for the 3rd time: Second Hand Lions. Knowing you and your movies I"m sure you've watched it. It is one of my favourites and carries a lot of life's lessons worth listening to... I can relate to the movie.

[zzaa09]

Ian might be onto something here, which some would consider to be an argument against the use of condoms by young thai girls in the villages.

If they did, there would be less girls in bars having to feed their children raised by mama.

A general answer is difficult though.

the legal minimum age varies from one country to another

the medical minimum age varies from one person to another

and the logical minimum age from one situation to another.

Condoms are freely available to anyone {no questions asked} at nearly every provincial government clinic. No excuses for not knowing.

[IanForbes]

Condoms are freely available to anyone {no questions asked} at nearly every provincial government clinic. No excuses for not knowing.

That is true, so I wonder why Thai mothers don't teach their daughters to insist on condoms BEFORE they have sex. They certainly do after they've had their first baby out of wedlock. Except in the case of rape the women ALWAYS have the final say.

[mstribling]

I think 13 is probably too young.

[zzaa09]

Condoms are freely available to anyone {no questions asked} at nearly every provincial government clinic. No excuses for not knowing.

That is true, so I wonder why Thai mothers don't teach their daughters to insist on condoms BEFORE they have sex. They certainly do after they've had their first baby out of wedlock. Except in the case of rape the women ALWAYS have the final say.

Social taboos and stigma, of course. In old traditional theory, young ladies should not be engaging in sexual relations until marriage {which today, is not realistic}....so these girls aren't going to ask or receive any such advice from an female elder.

[cdnmatt]

I remember when the BFs little sister starting having sex. The entire family was in an uproar with constant phone calls between each other, and everyone enraged with her. I remember scratching my head in confusion, and asking, "Well, why are you guys getting so angry at her? Do you really believe if you yell loud enough, she's going to stop having sex, or something?". Then I gave the suggestion of just realizing she's growing up, and instead of getting pissed off, sit down and make sure she knows about neat things like STDs, safe sex, the pill, pregnancy, etc. But nope, nobody was having any of that. Apparently, it's better to just get angry, and yell like an idiot.

I remember months ago the kids stayed here for a couple weeks, and I told the BF to take his little sister to the doctor, and get her on the pill. If papa doesn't have the money or doesn't want to do it, no worries, we will. No, no... can't do that... uncomfortable, taboo, blah, blah. Sure enough, now she's pregnant, and actually going to have the kid. Leaves me shaking my head, because this teenager is hardly ready to be a mom, but whatever...

[astral]

The only consolation to me in all this is that the extended family

still exists in Thailand, and there are grand parents to help raise the children.

[IanForbes]

I remember when the BFs little sister starting having sex. The entire family was in an uproar with constant phone calls between each other, and everyone enraged with her. I remember scratching my head in confusion, and asking, "Well, why are you guys getting so angry at her? Do you really believe if you yell loud enough, she's going to stop having sex, or something?". Then I gave the suggestion of just realizing she's growing up, and instead of getting pissed off, sit down and make sure she knows about neat things like STDs, safe sex, the pill, pregnancy, etc. But nope, nobody was having any of that. Apparently, it's better to just get angry, and yell like an idiot.

I remember months ago the kids stayed here for a couple weeks, and I told the BF to take his little sister to the doctor, and get her on the pill. If papa doesn't have the money or doesn't want to do it, no worries, we will. No, no... can't do that... uncomfortable, taboo, blah, blah. Sure enough, now she's pregnant, and actually going to have the kid. Leaves me shaking my head, because this teenager is hardly ready to be a mom, but whatever...

That is a Sad story. Having a baby too young will ruin the poor child's future. From what I understand about laws in Thailand, if a young girl gets pregnant then she can no longer go to school. Her options in life have been reduced to zero. The eldest daughter of the Thai family I look after had a baby last year at age 13. She looks and acts like about 11. She should still be PLAYING with dolls instead of having a child. It was all the fault of the mother. I had hopes of sending the girl to university, but now that's all finished. I told the mother that if the youngest girl (now 11) gets pregnant before she's marreid there will be no more money from me and the family will get cut out of my will. I've tried helping the family since the children were 4, 5 and 7. It is frustrating making them understand the consequences of their own actions. You can't stop children from having sex; because they'll find a way if they want to. But, you sure can help them understand biology and have SAFE sex.

[mstribling]

Schools over at 13. What else should they be doing?

[andrewbkk]

12:30 PM in BC and this is all you have to do? ... must be bored out of your wits.

Impolite.

What you should say is............

"Hey bro -- how many shrimps did you catch today? How did you eat them? What sauce? Raw or with salad? Photographic evidence required."

[NanLaew]

Two teenage stepdaughters, oldest one is already a heartbreaker to look at but is grade-A student and not interested in boys. Youngest one is tomboyish, rebellious, indolent and has had her cellphone taken off her for 'misuse'. The wife reckons the oldest one will go far and wonders how long before the younger one turns up pregnant.

My money is on the contrary happening.

Edited April 24, 2011 by NanLaew

[Roadman]

Condoms are freely available to anyone {no questions asked} at nearly every provincial government clinic. No excuses for not knowing.

That is true, so I wonder why Thai mothers don't teach their daughters to insist on condoms BEFORE they have sex. They certainly do after they've had their first baby out of wedlock. Except in the case of rape the women ALWAYS have the final say.

Social taboos and stigma, of course. In old traditional theory, young ladies should not be engaging in sexual relations until marriage {which today, is not realistic}....so these girls aren't going to ask or receive any such advice from an female elder.

Agggh...I wsn't going to but it is raining again and I am turning thai...to wet to go outside big falang is starting to wear.

Agree with pretty well everything on this topic apart from "{which today, is not realistic}....so these girls aren't going to ask or receive any such advice from an female elder".

When I was growing up I was a proper a...hole. My oldest sister was always lecturing me on the wrongs of what I was doing both to myself and others in my life, including getting teenage girls pregnant. I didn't listen and carried on that way. Years later after I had learnt all mostly the hard way I did listen to her and agree that...you can give all the sex education, morals and values, free condoms in the world but if the (in this discussion case) young girl ain't gonna listen then agree you have lost.

What is also lost a lot of the time in the headliner grabber of the teenage stuffing up lists, because good items simply aren't newsworthy is that there are teenage girls of today who are prepared to listen and take the advice, learnings and experiences from their elders and those that care about them. And no, I am not proclaiming them to be the blessed virgins but it is realistic to expect strong morals and values.

I can understand why some parents (and here I am talking middle class experiences western and thai) in the modern world give up thinking that under the endless barrage of mindless American teenage trash TV as one of the better examples, peer pressures of their teenage daughter's friends behavior's and general every day trash acceptance they have no chance of getting their daughter through their teen to woman change years with acceptable morals and values.

Instead of accepting trash behaviour as acceptable show teen girls that it is trash and there are other options. That includes not allowing daughters to use the "I am a teenager and that is what teenagers do" card by ensuring that discussion also address's the actions / consequences process. Trash like from my time Madonna (I do love and respect her however for her singing, but her morals and values were garbage) and the teens of today Lady Gaga types with their in for the money, stuff the morals and values are easy to discredit. Tiger Woods fall from grace, along with the American so called hi-so trash teens like Lohen and the rest being carted off to clink are pure gold examples of how the adult world majority and not teens with their limited and blinkered teenage time and values view trash. That involves getting in there and fighting with them and for them as they define their morals and values, but also and probably more importantly that teen girls are also understanding the reason for the parent battling with them is because they are worth fighting for and are loved and valued. I have nothing but respect for parents and their daughters who choose that path with condoms and pills as back up and not the first or next choice.

But sadly accept just as when I was teen who had no parents to fight me for my morals and values and who even then was to stupid and didn't listen to my older sister I accept that there are heaps of teen girls who are in the same place as I was and agree that the best option is condom load them or stick them on the pill, especially if hormones are raging and self worth hasn't kicked in. Also accept that and especially in lower social economic classes like the higher percentage poor of Thailand that simple lack of knowledge and skills (including mostly from parents) strongly disadvantages females.

How young is to young to become a mother? I would discount in the majority of cases anybody who has "-teen" tagged to their age.

Edited April 24, 2011 by Roadman

[IanForbes]

12:30 PM in BC and this is all you have to do? ... must be bored out of your wits.

Impolite.

What you should say is............

"Hey bro -- how many shrimps did you catch today? How did you eat them? What sauce? Raw or with salad? Photographic evidence required."

:lol:

Didn't catch any shrimp yesterday, but we did catch some nice trout. But I release all the trout I catch. I've already got too much fish in the freezer.

But, after being away in Thailand for 5 months I have too much work to do around the homestead to go fishing every day. Today was spent cleaning up the mess. And, besides, I finally get to watch some hockey on TV. I've already HAD my dose of non-stop soccer on Thai TV. But, we are wandering a LONG way off topic.

I agree with others here that ANY teenager is too young to start having children. They should be out having fun, learning an education in something constructive and practising safe sex. There is nothing wrong with sex, our bodies were designed to enjoy it, but they need to be responsible about it.

[Ulysses G.]

They should be out having fun, learning an education in something constructive and practising safe sex.

Preferably with an older man who likes to hunt and fish.

[IanForbes]

They should be out having fun, learning an education in something constructive and practising safe sex.

Preferably with an older man who likes to hunt and fish.

Don't I wish.

But, I'll settle for what I have... even though it's not quite perfect. I'm already missing my ladies and I've only been gone for 3 weeks. And, from their e-mails my ladies are missing me as well... or at least my wallet. They would have preferred that I left it behind when I returned to Canada.

[cdnmatt]

I'm almost beginning to believe they get pregnant, just so they have an excuse to be pigs. Before pregnancy, they can only eat normal amounts because they need to keep themselves healthy, slim, and beautiful. Once pregnant though? Apparently, all bets are off. I understand you're eating for two now, but whew, I could almost feed an entire village with what you put down.

Too bad I can't get pregnant. I'd like to eat that like too, but everyone would look at me funny if I did.

[IanForbes]

I'm almost beginning to believe they get pregnant, just so they have an excuse to be pigs. Before pregnancy, they can only eat normal amounts because they need to keep themselves healthy, slim, and beautiful. Once pregnant though? Apparently, all bets are off. I understand you're eating for two now, but whew, I could almost feed an entire village with what you put down.

Too bad I can't get pregnant. I'd like to eat that like too, but everyone would look at me funny if I did.

You're talking about the North American women. The young Thai women just dump the child with grandma or mother and head off to the city to find work. Have you noticed that after a North American marriage ends that the newly single woman goes off to a spa and health center to slim down again? She needs to look attractive for her new sucker. Men are no different. After they've hooked a wife they no longer exercise and they eat too much.