After The Red Shirts - Soi Khatalow

[oakweb]

This trash is going to be everywhere after tomorrow, winds and rains just blew it all around.

[MTH]

Beautiful… At least they left a Red Flag Warning

[Buchholz]

Typical.

They've never cleaned up after themselves following any of their rallies.

[JurgenG]

How much did it cost to Thai tax payers to clean and fix the government house after the PAD occupation ? And don't get me started on the airport ....

Here it's just an empty lot and a few garbage bags.

A bit one sided are we ?

[Spoonman]

I thought that plot of land always looked like that, infact now that I think of it it actually looks cleaner now..................

[jackdawson]

wow , they split .

that's cool .

[Buchholz]

How much did it cost to Thai tax payers to clean and fix the government house after the PAD occupation ? And don't get me started on the airport ....

Here it's just an empty lot and a few garbage bags.

A bit one sided are we ?

I was responding to the specifics of the OP.

If you wish to include all aspects of inappropriate disposal of trash in Thailand then perhaps you should start a thread on that.

[lovetotravel]

The lot was never that way...not perfect, but not trash filled like it is now. Amazing they didn't clean it up....disgusting.

[canopus1969]

Sums up the Red mob !

[Phil Conners]

Moved to Pattaya Forum.

[CGW]

When I drove by yesterday evening there were 2 persons cleaning up! either that or they were dumping more garbage!

[timekeeper]

who would have thought 50 people could have made such a mess........................?

[timekeeper]

How much did it cost to Thai tax payers to clean and fix the government house after the PAD occupation ? And don't get me started on the airport ....

Here it's just an empty lot and a few garbage bags.

A bit one sided are we ?

i heard the airport was cleaner when they left than it was when they arrived

AOT wanted to offer them jobs but the airport cleaning mafia would not allow it.

they withdrew their labor for 8 days then as no one had noticed any difference they gave up the protest and started 'work'' again..........

[toenail]

How much did it cost to Thai tax payers to clean and fix the government house after the PAD occupation ? And don't get me started on the airport ....

Here it's just an empty lot and a few garbage bags.

A bit one sided are we ?

*************************************************

I find both parties "childish" in their ways of handling "democracy" ;however, I believe when the PAD left the airport, they made sure it was left clean. (Maybe it was a propaganda picture I saw..)

[doggie888888]

When peasants revolt, they tend to leave a mess. By the way, have you seen Beach Rd after a festival? Whilst it is disgusting, it is sadly rather common here. Was around Pratumnak area the other day....shocked at the amount of rubbish at many vacant plots of land. Sad.

[jdinasia]

How much did it cost to Thai tax payers to clean and fix the government house after the PAD occupation ? And don't get me started on the airport ....

Here it's just an empty lot and a few garbage bags.

A bit one sided are we ?

PAD Officially Returns Government House after Clean-UpUPDATE : 4 December 2008The People’s Alliance for Democracy has officially returned Government House to the authorities after having completed the clean-up, following months of occupation.

The Dharma Army has joined with some 400 Bangkok Metropolitan Administration staff in cleaning up and removing all structures the People’s Alliance for Democracy has installed on Government House grounds, after having occupied it for months.

Officers from the Directorate of Armament also joined with the Metropolitan Police Department in performing security sweeps and checks at Government Office and nearby areas.

Meanwhile, the Engineering Institute of Thailand has inspected the government office and confirmed that the buildings’ structures and internal systems have not been damaged or altered in any way.

They also confirmed that no state property has been vandalized and nothing has been stolen.

However, the institute will let all officials inspect their own offices and workspaces again to confirm if any personal belongings have been stolen during the PAD’s occupation.

Moreover, the Secretariat of the Prime Minister plans to file a legal suit to demand 20 million baht in compensation from the PAD, to restore Government House.

In any case, the PAD has officially returned the official government seat to deputy secretary-general to the Prime Minister, Loyluen Bunnag today.

At the same time, the Dusit District Office plans to give out all drinking waters and stage materials, left at Government House by the PAD, to small local communities in Bangkok later.

http://www.tannetwork.tv/tan/ViewData.aspx?DataID=1011012

[Rimmer]

One post has been removed from view, the subject is: After The Red Shirts - Soi Khatalow quite the mess No politics please.

[janverbeem]

who would have thought 50 people could have made such a mess........................?

50 people that were probably only the parking waiters.I live on khao talo and when I drove home Saturday around 8 PM there were a lot of people attending,they even had tour buses bringing in people,and I guess that crowd only grew later in the evening.

[moo9]

Typical.

They've never cleaned up after themselves following any of their rallies.

Did you see it? Not a FEW garbage bags.

[moo9]

Just by interest, is there any law in Thailand so that people have to ask for a permission, describing intentions, possible impact on infrastructure, traffic etc snd most important the naming of individuals or committees who will be held responsible in case anything goes beyond limits?

Too many people are forgetting nowadays that personal freedom includes responsibility for the public. It is always a thin line between total freedom and anarchy, especially in not so mature countries.

[oakweb]

If I was an activist, I'd leave that place spotless. That way you can potentially gain support. People would think, "I like these guys.. they are really organized and trying to clean up everything." Instead what I see there is a real lack or care of organization, not sure what Thai's think though.

Hmm maybe the Yellow shirts should go clean it up? That would be an interesting story in the newspaper.

[JohnShanssy]

Just by interest, is there any law in Thailand so that people have to ask for a permission, describing intentions, possible impact on infrastructure, traffic etc snd most important the naming of individuals or committees who will be held responsible in case anything goes beyond limits?

Too many people are forgetting nowadays that personal freedom includes responsibility for the public. It is always a thin line between total freedom and anarchy, especially in not so mature countries.

I'm sure there is something like that....just as there are laws against drunk driving, smoking in public aircon places and corruption.

[metisdead]

Another post removed from view.

One post has been removed from view, the subject is: After The Red Shirts - Soi Khatalow quite the mess No politics please.

[tropo]

If I was an activist, I'd leave that place spotless. That way you can potentially gain support. People would think, "I like these guys.. they are really organized and trying to clean up everything." Instead what I see there is a real lack or care of organization, not sure what Thai's think though.

Hmm maybe the Yellow shirts should go clean it up? That would be an interesting story in the newspaper.

Do Thais really even care about garbage laying around? Most empty lots around Pattaya soon become garbage dumps. If the municipal council doesn't care, why would anyone else (besides foreigners)?

[CGW]

I believe? this land is privately owned by ?, so cleaning up the mess is there responsibility!

[tropo]

I believe? this land is privately owned by ?, so cleaning up the mess is there responsibility!

The thing is that the municipal councils need to have control over this to keep the city tidy by forcing private owners to clean up their land if they don't want to do it themselves. I'm astounded that keeping properties in tidy condition hasn't been a priority by the council in such a popular tourist destination.

The very worst example I know is the beach front park area in Cosy Beach, at the end of the street with all the shops. I went to sit down there to have a snack while watching the sunset the other day but I had to leave because the area is a garbage dump. This is absolutely incredible in a very popular tourist area with the highest concentration of Russians anywhere in Pattaya. It is private land so I suppose that is why the council doesn't clean it up.

[BB1950]

I believe? this land is privately owned by ?, so cleaning up the mess is there responsibility!

The thing is that the municipal councils need to have control over this to keep the city tidy by forcing private owners to clean up their land if they don't want to do it themselves. I'm astounded that keeping properties in tidy condition hasn't been a priority by the council in such a popular tourist destination.

The very worst example I know is the beach front park area in Cosy Beach, at the end of the street with all the shops. I went to sit down there to have a snack while watching the sunset the other day but I had to leave because the area is a garbage dump. This is absolutely incredible in a very popular tourist area with the highest concentration of Russians anywhere in Pattaya. It is private land so I suppose that is why the council doesn't clean it up.

The problem is not the land owners, but trespassers. especially around the Pratamnak Hill area. Land owners clean it up, but people come by at night and dump trash on empty plots all around Pattaya/Jomtien. There needs to be law enforcement to stop illegal dumping or littering. But it's not going to happen in Thailand, it's part of the culture.

[tropo]

The problem is not the land owners, but trespassers. especially around the Pratamnak Hill area. Land owners clean it up, but people come by at night and dump trash on empty plots all around Pattaya/Jomtien. There needs to be law enforcement to stop illegal dumping or littering. But it's not going to happen in Thailand, it's part of the culture.

The garbage I see around Pratumnak Hill on empty lots is not the result of fresh nightly dumps after a cleanup. It's been there for months or years.

I disagree that it's part of Thai culture. The council keeps the parks on Pratumnak Hill very tidy and relatively garbage free.

If they didn't have laws governing the dumping of garbage in Western cities they would also be garbage dumps. Perhaps we're talking about human nature here, not a habit specific to Thais.

Edited April 27, 2011 by tropo

[BB1950]

The problem is not the land owners, but trespassers. especially around the Pratamnak Hill area. Land owners clean it up, but people come by at night and dump trash on empty plots all around Pattaya/Jomtien. There needs to be law enforcement to stop illegal dumping or littering. But it's not going to happen in Thailand, it's part of the culture.

The garbage I see around Pratumnak Hill on empty lots is not the result of fresh nightly dumps after a cleanup. It's been there for months or years.

I disagree that it's part of Thai culture. The council keeps the parks on Pratumnak Hill very tidy and relatively garbage free.

If they didn't have laws governing the dumping of garbage in Western cities they would also be garbage dumps. Perhaps we're talking about human nature here, not a habit specific to Thais.

First of all I didn't claim littering and dumping is specific to Thais. True, if there wasn't or isn't law enforcement, Western cities would be and are just as bad.

You may disagree. But I personally know several land owners who periodically clean the trash off their plots at great expense only to have someone dump trash the following day. They do not like living next to a garbage dump either. Some have caught violators and call the BIB only to have no action taken. They do not have the luxury of having a full time staff and equipment like the city does to daily clean the streets, parks, and beaches. So it is not done as often as you expect. If the city did not provide the staff; the streets, parks, and beaches would be just as bad if not worse. So please tell me why landowners should be expected to pay for these trespassers/violators? After all the land owners did not haul the trash in and they are not public areas.

What I was referring to as being part of Thai culture. Are the lack of laws, enforcement, education, and use of refuse containers. Many years ago, foods use to be wrapped in banana leaves and the leaves were discarded wherever. That was Thai culture. It was no problem because the leaves quickly decayed. However now with the advent of Styrofoam containers and plastic bags, these items do not decay. However the culture of just tossing it, still remains. The has been no education towards anti-littering (haul out what you bring in) or no trash containers are reasonably provided. Cleaning up after oneself is not taught.

Again the OP was dealing with the huge mess left by the red shirts not by the landowner. Maybe the land owner should have charged for the use of the land, to clean up afterwards. But the responsibility really rests with the red shirt organizers as it was an event to receive funding thought the selling of merchandise, food, beverages, and donations. I saw the mess and if you noticed, most of the trash was refuse from the selling of foods and beverages. It was obvious no trash bins were provided and used by the vendors or participants. I did notice a couple of pickup trucks the next day which appeared to be recyclers savaging for plastic bottles and Styrofoam containers. Had there been law enforcement. Someone would be held responsible for the mess.

I personally think you are barking up the wrong tree, unless you would volunteer to spend your time cleaning up some of these areas.

Quite often the city has cleanup drives to pickup trash along the beaches, streets, and parks. As it gets so overwhelming.

Otherwise you just are providing lip service only.

Edited April 27, 2011 by BB1950

[tropo]

So please tell me why landowners should be expected to pay for these trespassers/violators? After all the land owners did not haul the trash in and they are not public areas.

Of course landowners are responsible for keeping their own properties clean. How the garbage gets there is irrelevant. If it is illegal dumping, then that is bad luck. Who do you think should be cleaning up private land? Council workers?

For example, what would you do if someone dumped a truck load of garbage in your backyard when you were out? Would you just leave it there? Would you ask the police to clean it up?

Edited April 27, 2011 by tropo