Thailand KFC Faces Employee Lawsuit For Unfair Practices

[trisailer]

Some people just don't get it.

I'm going to boycott KFC and let them know that I support the IDEA of employees who have taken this risk to try to get the company to negotiate, in good faith and produce a satisfactory result. No I'm not going to boycott 7-11 because as long as those employees are content to take what they are given than what would be the point?

Unregulated greed is going to be the death of all of us. If good people do nothing than I'm OK with that, but I have no illusions that the path we are on will produce extreme disorder

[kuffki]

Some people just don't get it.

I'm going to boycott KFC and let them know that I support the IDEA of employees who have taken this risk to try to get the company to negotiate, in good faith and produce a satisfactory result. No I'm not going to boycott 7-11 because as long as those employees are content to take what they are given than what would be the point?

Unregulated greed is going to be the death of all of us. If good people do nothing than I'm OK with that, but I have no illusions that the path we are on will produce extreme disorder

So what you are saying is that the 3 managers who used company email and false pretense to contact staff did everything right?

Now consider the FACT that even though they did use company email, ie like a memo from the head office, ie like a memo from senior management and yet still only 250 people agreed out of 900.

Furthermore, knowing Thai way of agreeing, rather then making waves, do you think using company head office email is a fair way to determine what employees really want?

You do not find it odd that such senior management did what they did, instead of raising the issue with the board first? and as it so happens now suing the company and have all the "evidence" prepared, that does not strike you as being odd?

and finally do you really think your boycott, will have any impact on the company? If locals do not care, what difference do you think you will make? besides making a fool out of yourself. Little like the freedom fighters foreigners who spoke at the red shirts rally.

Edited May 12, 2011 by kuffki

[ClaudeFeller]

We should not forget that 27 THB is the MINIMUM wage. It just means that 26 THB is criminal, it doesnt mean that 27 THB is a fair wage.

A profitable company is allowed to pay more.

So 26.99 would be criminal also?

Better make it 27.01 than.

Ps. Minimum wage for bkk is 200 per day, amount of hours not specified, but assuming 8, 27 makes it above minimum wage.

But since so many humanitarians here , I suppose all will be boycotting shopping malls, local restaurants and 7-11's since half if them do not even pay that .

Wage for restaurant thai owned is lucky to be 5000 per month for 12 hour days or for hotel maids in many hotels is 4500.

Do not forget builders, they actually do real physical work in the sun and rain for 200 per day and get to sleep and live in a shed with no hot water or even toilet.

The Thai minimum wages is lower than in Kongo, equal to China and not even half of the value in Malaysia. This is a shame for a newly industrialised country - Thailand is the 2nd largest economy in SEA behind Indonesia which has a four times higher population.

[kuffki]

We should not forget that 27 THB is the MINIMUM wage. It just means that 26 THB is criminal, it doesnt mean that 27 THB is a fair wage.

A profitable company is allowed to pay more.

So 26.99 would be criminal also?

Better make it 27.01 than.

Ps. Minimum wage for bkk is 200 per day, amount of hours not specified, but assuming 8, 27 makes it above minimum wage.

But since so many humanitarians here , I suppose all will be boycotting shopping malls, local restaurants and 7-11's since half if them do not even pay that .

Wage for restaurant thai owned is lucky to be 5000 per month for 12 hour days or for hotel maids in many hotels is 4500.

Do not forget builders, they actually do real physical work in the sun and rain for 200 per day and get to sleep and live in a shed with no hot water or even toilet.

The Thai minimum wages is lower than in Kongo, equal to China and not even half of the value in Malaysia. This is a shame for a newly industrialised country - Thailand is the 2nd largest economy in SEA behind Indonesia which has a four times higher population.

How and why are you comparing minimum wage of one country to another?

Minimum wage in Thailand is 2-3 times more then in Cambodia, Lao or Burma. How i came to this conclusion? well because in Thailand its $1, while in other places mentioned its 30c., so it must be true then.

Your comparisons do not make any sense at all, sorry to tell you.

[ClaudeFeller]

How and why are you comparing minimum wage of one country to another?

Minimum wage in Thailand is 2-3 times more then in Cambodia, Lao or Burma. How i came to this conclusion? well because in Thailand its $1, while in other places mentioned its 30c., so it must be true then.

Your comparisons do not make any sense at all, sorry to tell you.

Because it is worse in Laos doesnt make it good in Thailand.

[trisailer]

kuffki, I don't know how you can claim to know business. when you can't even understand the issue at hand.

I for one don't know what wage these folks should get and neither do you. but I'm pretty sure that they do. I'm also pretty sure that KFC knows what they want to pay and what they will eventually be required to pay.

This is about two groups with different ideas who should be allowed to negotiate IN GOOD FAITH to produce a satisfactory result. If the playing field were level than the process is a healthy one. KFC thinks it has all the power and it does for the moment, but that can change very quickly.

[kuffki]

How and why are you comparing minimum wage of one country to another?

Minimum wage in Thailand is 2-3 times more then in Cambodia, Lao or Burma. How i came to this conclusion? well because in Thailand its $1, while in other places mentioned its 30c., so it must be true then.

Your comparisons do not make any sense at all, sorry to tell you.

Because it is worse in Laos doesnt make it good in Thailand.

But makes it better in Congo as you stated?

[kuffki]

kuffki, I don't know how you can claim to know business. when you can't even understand the issue at hand.

I for one don't know what wage these folks should get and neither do you. but I'm pretty sure that they do. I'm also pretty sure that KFC knows what they want to pay and what they will eventually be required to pay.

This is about two groups with different ideas who should be allowed to negotiate IN GOOD FAITH to produce a satisfactory result. If the playing field were level than the process is a healthy one. KFC thinks it has all the power and it does for the moment, but that can change very quickly.

You seem to fail to acknowledge some facts in the matter.

Staff at KFC do not get less then the legal wage. When the minimum gets lifted, so will their wage.

KFC does not abuse its staff nor takes advantage of them.

Salary's are clearly stated prior to employment and no one is forced to take the job.

KFC pays in line if not more then a HUGE number of other business, and provides rather pleasant working conditions especially when compared to construction workers.

The 3 managers DID NOT negotiate or express their concerns, they simply tried to black mail the company at company's expense.

If anything, those 3 should consider themselves lucky, because they could easily be prosecuted under criminal and civil law.

They stole and deceived and defamed the company for personal gain and against code of conduct which they signed upon employment.

[Thaddeus]

How and why are you comparing minimum wage of one country to another?

Minimum wage in Thailand is 2-3 times more then in Cambodia, Lao or Burma. How i came to this conclusion? well because in Thailand its $1, while in other places mentioned its 30c., so it must be true then.

Your comparisons do not make any sense at all, sorry to tell you.

Because it is worse in Laos doesnt make it good in Thailand.

But it does mean that they are not dealing duplicitously.

[FOODLOVER]

kuffki, I don't know how you can claim to know business. when you can't even understand the issue at hand.

I for one don't know what wage these folks should get and neither do you. but I'm pretty sure that they do. I'm also pretty sure that KFC knows what they want to pay and what they will eventually be required to pay.

This is about two groups with different ideas who should be allowed to negotiate IN GOOD FAITH to produce a satisfactory result. If the playing field were level than the process is a healthy one. KFC thinks it has all the power and it does for the moment, but that can change very quickly.

This is about two groups with different ideas who should be allowed to negotiate IN GOOD FAITH to produce a satisfactory result.

Which they did not. What they did borders on fraud so where do you get the good faith part? If you use company letterhead claiming that you are in a position of authority and you are not in order to gain signatures and thus causing public relations problems you are indeed not operating in a good faith manner. It is unethical, to say the least but knowing what i know about Thai law they may soon see legal issues themselves.

[trisailer]

You don't KNOW what they did. Your making a lot of assumptions based upon a news report which may or may not include the facts.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what other people make at other places of employment.

Thought out my career I negotiated my own salary and what others were earning didn't matter to me one wit. I was a very good negotiater because I didn't limit myself to such irrelevant issues of what was fair, but I used every tool in my tool box to win and I'm happy to say that I usually did win and always was a top earner.

You claim to be a business person. Using your logic I would assume that you price your product the same as your competitors?? I hope not. Capitalism and free markets exist because people negotiate. They use whatever means available to maximize profits. Labor uses whatever power they have to maximize pay. When these two forces are allowed to negotiate on a level playing field equilibrium can exist. Open your eyes, look around, maybe try cracking a book about what makes companies (and societies) great.

IT is simple minded to assume that when a business slams the door in employees faces that they will quietly go away. They will not.

"knowing what i know about Thai law" Just what do you think you know? A very good lawyer I know told me once that "truth only appears in a courtroom when it is dragged, kicking and screeming" If you think you have some magic formula for determining the outcome of any legal proceeding I suggest you bottle it.

Edited May 12, 2011 by trisailer

[trisailer]

You people crack me up.

When has anyone followed "the rules" when it comes to producing change?

You can stick to the "form" I choose "substance".

[kuffki]

That's how you do not see the business logic , because as you stated you always worked for someone

I can only base my posts on what is written, what are you basing yours on??

You don't KNOW what they did. Your making a lot of assumptions based upon a news report which may or may not include the facts.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what other people make at other places of employment.

Thought out my career I negotiated my own salary and what others were earning didn't matter to me one wit. I was a very good negotiate because I didn't limit myself to such irrelevant issues of what was fair, but I used every tool in my tool box to win and I'm happy to say that I usually did win and always was a top earner.

You claim to be a business person. Using your logic I would assume that you price your product the same as your competitors?? I hope not. Capitalism and free markets exist because people negotiate. They use whatever means available to maximize profits. Labor uses whatever power they have to maximize pay. When these two forces are allowed to negotiate on a level playing field equilibrium can exist. Open your eyes, look around, maybe try cracking a book about what makes companies (and societies) great.

IT is simple minded to assume that when a business slams the door in employees faces that they will quietly go away. They will not.

[trisailer]

There you go again, making assumptions.

I have worked for companies, I have purchased companies and I have created companies ot of nothing.

My last 5 years of "work" was as a consultant to dysfunctional organizations, It was the easiest and most profitable business I ever did because most managers don't have a clue of how to deal with people which represents 80% of their job.

In each and every case the same rules apply. I have experienced the business world from about every angle that is humanly possible from a hourly employee to a corporate executive. I know what works and I demonstrated it time and time again but significantly improving the profits of the companies I helped and and my own as well.

Kind of ironic really. I'm sitting here in my nice comfortable villa having this conversation because there is so much incompetence in business.

[kuffki]

I am sorry I can only write on what is posted.

And in this post all you are doing is trumping your own horn, without so much as an inch of evidence.

You have done it all, and yet you see no problem with breaching company conduct by the management?

You helped all those business and yet you see no problem in using company resources for personal gain?

With all that extensive experience you also do not see a problem with deceitful conduct?

Really makes me question all of your "achievements"

There you go again, making assumptions.

I have worked for companies, I have purchased companies and I have created companies ot of nothing.

My last 5 years of "work" was as a consultant to dysfunctional organizations, It was the easiest and most profitable business I ever did because most managers don't have a clue of how to deal with people which represents 80% of their job.

In each and every case the same rules apply. I have experienced the business world from about every angle that is humanly possible from a hourly employee to a corporate executive. I know what works and I demonstrated it time and time again but significantly improving the profits of the companies I helped and and my own as well.

Kind of ironic really. I'm sitting here in my nice comfortable villa having this conversation because there is so much incompetence in business.

[kathukid]

Wiil this be under Shria Law as I trust you all know that KFC is Hallal

[kuffki]

Just for the record for all those claiming KFC had same price as in the west.

I went into store 10 mins ago and burger meal with drink is 99 baht=$3.30

Where in Oz or uk you buy KFC meal with drink for $3.30?

[trisailer]

"yet you see no problem with breaching company conduct by the management" No I don't care how a issue gets to me, the quicker the better. It is how it is handled once I know about it that matters.

"You helped all those business and yet you see no problem in using company resources for personal gain? Is this a trick question? I provided a service that saved companies millions. I got paid tens of thousands. win win.

"With all that extensive experience you also do not see a problem with deceitful conduct? No, not at all. If I was doing my job properly there would never be a need for deceit. That it happened just demonstrates my failure. The corrective action, now that it is out in the open, is to learn what the problem is, negotiate a solution and do a better job of understanding my employees in the future. Been there done that, got the T-shirt.

Your questioning my business achievements buy demonstrating your own incompitence??? How does that work? I must be missing something.

[FOODLOVER]

You don't KNOW what they did. Your making a lot of assumptions based upon a news report which may or may not include the facts.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what other people make at other places of employment.

Thought out my career I negotiated my own salary and what others were earning didn't matter to me one wit. I was a very good negotiater because I didn't limit myself to such irrelevant issues of what was fair, but I used every tool in my tool box to win and I'm happy to say that I usually did win and always was a top earner.

You claim to be a business person. Using your logic I would assume that you price your product the same as your competitors?? I hope not. Capitalism and free markets exist because people negotiate. They use whatever means available to maximize profits. Labor uses whatever power they have to maximize pay. When these two forces are allowed to negotiate on a level playing field equilibrium can exist. Open your eyes, look around, maybe try cracking a book about what makes companies (and societies) great.

IT is simple minded to assume that when a business slams the door in employees faces that they will quietly go away. They will not.

"knowing what i know about Thai law" Just what do you think you know? A very good lawyer I know told me once that "truth only appears in a courtroom when it is dragged, kicking and screeming" If you think you have some magic formula for determining the outcome of any legal proceeding I suggest you bottle it.

Wow such hostilities, no magic formulas here, i have no bottles to put genies in either. I also notice that you have one of these mythical "Good" lawyers that has given you a nugget of his wisdom. Happy Happy Joy Joy! Very proud of your negotiating prowess as well and i think it esquisite that you live a life style in a "Villa". But on to bigger and better things. " Labor uses whatever power they have to maximize pay." Even if it is illegal? Ever hear of grievance policy and procedures? Code of conduct? Its in those fancy books! ( My ipad does virtually the same thing ,get it , virtually. ) Where is this SLAMMING DOOR of thunder on the wee people that you speak of? I dont hear it because it didnt happen! Dont extort money from your employer! Or should this be in the book as well because as you know they must be warned twice not to extort money from the hand that feeds them and their brothers, sister, parents and any one else that shows up. Nope, no siree bob! Must warn them twice! As for your assertion about me knowing what i think i know i can tell you that i certainly will know what i know at all times, knowing that in fact that i may be asked about my knowledge at any time. I also married a Thai lawyer, we talk.

Edited May 12, 2011 by FOODLOVER

[kuffki]

Sorry but your business achievements according to whom? You??

From your response , I am unsure if you did not understand the questions or simply have no comprehention of what has been asked at all.

"yet you see no problem with breaching company conduct by the management" No I don't care how a issue gets to me, the quicker the better. It is how it is handled once I know about it that matters.

"You helped all those business and yet you see no problem in using company resources for personal gain? Is this a trick question? I provided a service that saved companies millions. I got paid tens of thousands. win win.

"With all that extensive experience you also do not see a problem with deceitful conduct? No, not at all. If I was doing my job properly there would never be a need for deceit. That it happened just demonstrates my failure. The corrective action, now that it is out in the open, is to learn what the problem is, negotiate a solution and do a better job of understanding my employees in the future. Been there done that, got the T-shirt.

Your questioning my business achievements buy demonstrating your own incompitence??? How does that work? I must be missing something.

[trisailer]

I learned business by being in business unlike the ivy league, heartless bean counters I often had to deal with (they made it so easy)

It's simple really, it's all about understanding people, how to motivate them and get them to do what they need to do, for me and for themselves. What you seem to be missing is the balance between the two. I rose through the ranks of the corporate world very quickly because I could motivate people but became disillusioned when my people were cheated out of the benefits of their effort. Now this is common practice in business.

I learned everything I needed to about people on the playground in grade school.

There are hundreds of great books about great leadership, you might try reading a few when you graduate.

He wasn't just a good lawyer he was a great lawyer, a true artist who made the opposition look like a bunch of chumps. He was a joy to watch, a consistent winner, a champion who won for me against seemingly unsurmountable odds. You get the picture.

[djlest]

TRAVEL ALLOWANCE?

Do USA KFC employees get travel allowance?

[cardholder]

There you go again, making assumptions. . I have experienced the business world from about every angle that is humanly possible from a hourly employee to a corporate executive. I know what works and I demonstrated it time and time again but significantly improving the profits of the companies I helped and and my own as well.

Kind of ironic really. I'm sitting here in my nice comfortable villa having this conversation because there is so much incompetence in business.

You seem to have fallen a long way if you are now reduced to having petty arguments on an internet forum.

[kuffki]

Do not want to be rude, but instead of acknowledging that the 3 managers did indeed break company rules and a few laws along the way, why do you keep blowing your own horn?

Trying to get a job or ........?

And who are "my" people?

Also who is "he" was great lawyer and how Is "he" relevant to your post or the thread?

I learned business by being in business unlike the ivy league, heartless bean counters I often had to deal with (they made it so easy)

It's simple really, it's all about understanding people, how to motivate them and get them to do what they need to do, for me and for themselves. What you seem to be missing is the balance between the two. I rose through the ranks of the corporate world very quickly because I could motivate people but became disillusioned when my people were cheated out of the benefits of their effort. Now this is common practice in business.

I learned everything I needed to about people on the playground in grade school.

There are hundreds of great books about great leadership, you might try reading a few when you graduate.

He wasn't just a good lawyer he was a great lawyer, a true artist who made the opposition look like a bunch of chumps. He was a joy to watch, a consistent winner, a champion who won for me against seemingly unsurmountable odds. You get the picture.

Edited May 12, 2011 by kuffki

[letitbe]

Also keep in mind that while in the West they need 5 people per shift, in Thailand they have 25.

Thats real problem here. Most Thais (not all) work very slowly. All thai business's here seem to employ at least 5 times number that would be employed in forangland. Wages are very very low but just liveable. Wages could easily be doubled and staff levels more than halved in most places. Just look at department stores here usually more workers than customers. The real problem is thais expect more money without more work. It is possibly a good thing since if wages went up it would probably be paid for by less workers and a huge rise in unemployment and here their is no safety net for poor unemployed. Some thais who work very hard do earn good money. I know one air conditioner company who charge same as most for cleaning but they pay their workers a small basic and a big bonus per job. When they clean and service my air cons it takes 2 of them about 1/4 of time other companies would have 3-4 workers. Of course they only employ motivated Thais who want to work and earn good money. I asked one of their employees how much he made in a month. His answer was depends on business but between 15,000 and 25,000 per month. His basic was only 3000 a month but with guaranteed bonus to bring it up to minimum wage. His company also paid travel allowance if they used their own transport and a lunch allowance. Its only case ive ever known but demonstrates why wages are really low. However compared with a lot of real third world countries most low paid workers have it relatively easy with a very slow mie penrie work ethic even in fast food chains.

[Wallaby]

So 26.99 would be criminal also?

Better make it 27.01 than.

Ps. Minimum wage for bkk is 200 per day, amount of hours not specified, but assuming 8, 27 makes it above minimum wage.

But since so many humanitarians here , I suppose all will be boycotting shopping malls, local restaurants and 7-11's since half if them do not even pay that .

Wage for restaurant thai owned is lucky to be 5000 per month for 12 hour days or for hotel maids in many hotels is 4500.

Do not forget builders, they actually do real physical work in the sun and rain for 200 per day and get to sleep and live in a shed with no hot water or even toilet.

You still don't grasp what we are saying.

It is not so much about employees getting a minimum wage, it is about them being paid that wage yet the company charges a western price.

If the shopping malls, local restaurants and 7-11's charge thai prices then why would they be boycotted.

[kuffki]

To start with what company charges is not yours "we" business . You do not like the price, you do not buy.

Today I paid 99 baht for burger meal with chips and drink, what's western price again ? 200-250 baht??

So 26.99 would be criminal also?

Better make it 27.01 than.

Ps. Minimum wage for bkk is 200 per day, amount of hours not specified, but assuming 8, 27 makes it above minimum wage.

But since so many humanitarians here , I suppose all will be boycotting shopping malls, local restaurants and 7-11's since half if them do not even pay that .

Wage for restaurant thai owned is lucky to be 5000 per month for 12 hour days or for hotel maids in many hotels is 4500.

Do not forget builders, they actually do real physical work in the sun and rain for 200 per day and get to sleep and live in a shed with no hot water or even toilet.

You still don't grasp what we are saying.

It is not so much about employees getting a minimum wage, it is about them being paid that wage yet the company charges a western price.

If the shopping malls, local restaurants and 7-11's charge thai prices then why would they be boycotted.

[Wallaby]

To start with what company charges is not yours "we" business . You do not like the price, you do not buy.

Today I paid 99 baht for burger meal with chips and drink, what's western price again ? 200-250 baht??

I do not like the price I do not buy. I don't and I don't. That doesn't stop me having empathy for people being on minimum wage whilst the company charges over the odds compared to franchises in western countries.

I had a look today at the KFC at the train station and it depends what type of burger etc you order. I asked the young lady behind the counter and she told me the prices for meal deals can change daily. At that time they had just the simple chicken burger, regular chips, can of drink for $3.95. I think that is about 130 or 140 baht depending on the exchange.

[FOODLOVER]

I learned business by being in business unlike the ivy league, heartless bean counters I often had to deal with (they made it so easy)

It's simple really, it's all about understanding people, how to motivate them and get them to do what they need to do, for me and for themselves. What you seem to be missing is the balance between the two. I rose through the ranks of the corporate world very quickly because I could motivate people but became disillusioned when my people were cheated out of the benefits of their effort. Now this is common practice in business.

I learned everything I needed to about people on the playground in grade school.

There are hundreds of great books about great leadership, you might try reading a few when you graduate.

He wasn't just a good lawyer he was a great lawyer, a true artist who made the opposition look like a bunch of chumps. He was a joy to watch, a consistent winner, a champion who won for me against seemingly unsurmountable odds. You get the picture.

"I learned everything I needed to about people on the playground in grade school."

Which school? I think i've worked with your alumni.

[wolfmanjack]

KFC is not to be blamed. These two should complain about the Thai government. Thailand's minimum wage is about 180B/day for a 10 hour work day. KFC is paying above the minimum wage. Everyone who is converting their salaries into USD and finding it unfair should look around and compare these salaries to all other fastfood outlets. These workers make more than they would working in most other places. I doubt McD, PizzaHut, or Subway is paying any different than KFC.

I do agree with Kuffki, these two are trying to take advantage of KFC and make a quick buck.

Where do you get your information ? the normal work day is 8 hours. Working over 8 hours would be 2 hours overtime at time and a half pay.