Rubber Trees

[cdmtdm]

If you are not a farmer dont try to be our you will make some very big and costly mistakes

Seen it done rubber trees are not always what they seem the place and pattern you plant them soil tests min 7 years to first yield money for land money for land/ chemicals money for labour

Tractor hire our buy trust with partner

I can think of a chap who did all this got to time to draw in the cash is wife sold that plot of land for a ton of cash kept the lot know he.s pumping money into the next farm same again

See when you get stung its hard to walk away

Thai.s make money falangs pay the bills welcome to thailand

gee thanks for the informative post we have all been waiting for that .....feel better now ..

[jamescollister]

If you are not a farmer dont try to be our you will make some very big and costly mistakes

Seen it done rubber trees are not always what they seem the place and pattern you plant them soil tests min 7 years to first yield money for land money for land/ chemicals money for labour

Tractor hire our buy trust with partner

I can think of a chap who did all this got to time to draw in the cash is wife sold that plot of land for a ton of cash kept the lot know he.s pumping money into the next farm same again

See when you get stung its hard to walk away

Thai.s make money falangs pay the bills welcome to thailand

Issanmad, think you will find the regular posters here are in fact making a profit. Some of us have been at it for years and farmers love to complain about everything, from weather to price.

If you want to see how it can be done, pop on down and have a look, bring beer. Jim

[Mosha]

If you are not a farmer dont try to be our you will make some very big and costly mistakes

Seen it done rubber trees are not always what they seem the place and pattern you plant them soil tests min 7 years to first yield money for land money for land/ chemicals money for labour

Tractor hire our buy trust with partner

I can think of a chap who did all this got to time to draw in the cash is wife sold that plot of land for a ton of cash kept the lot know he.s pumping money into the next farm same again

See when you get stung its hard to walk away

Thai.s make money falangs pay the bills welcome to thailand

..... and if the trees are big enough it's 6 years. Have a nice day.

[jamescollister]

Cheers jim new the post would flush out someone congrats

But even 6years is a long time and ive been here double that

My wife lot have about 80 rai and the labour costs a lot they make sheet they make good money i guess but its not mine we have some but 8 years still not ready to tap good ground 6 that would be nice but i did not spend more then i could afford not to worry about

I was born on a farm hopefully ill die on one good luck buddy i guess you got your eyes open

Offers open come on down and have a look, bring the wife and maybe she will lean some ways to increase output. Jim

[Mosha]

Cheers jim new the post would flush out someone congrats

But even 6years is a long time and ive been here double that

My wife lot have about 80 rai and the labour costs a lot they make sheet they make good money i guess but its not mine we have some but 8 years still not ready to tap good ground 6 that would be nice but i did not spend more then i could afford not to worry about

I was born on a farm hopefully ill die on one good luck buddy i guess you got your eyes open

As some Thais would say, would you trust a cat to watch your fish? In the South if the growers are not tapping themselves, they use burmese tappers, 40% to them 60% to us.

ps not tapping after 8, somethings not right.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Mosha

[cobbler]

If you are not a farmer dont try to be our you will make some very big and costly mistakes

Seen it done rubber trees are not always what they seem the place and pattern you plant them soil tests min 7 years to first yield money for land money for land/ chemicals money for labour

Tractor hire our buy trust with partner

I can think of a chap who did all this got to time to draw in the cash is wife sold that plot of land for a ton of cash kept the lot know he.s pumping money into the next farm same again

See when you get stung its hard to walk away

Thai.s make money falangs pay the bills welcome to thailand

I think Farangs pay if the farang gets bad advice.The farang needs to ask himself''Is his adviser his friend or not.''If not get rid of the advisor,because cant be trusted.black and white.Cut and dried

Cheers Cobbler

Edited August 8, 2012 by cobbler

[jamescollister]

If you are not a farmer dont try to be our you will make some very big and costly mistakes

Seen it done rubber trees are not always what they seem the place and pattern you plant them soil tests min 7 years to first yield money for land money for land/ chemicals money for labour

Tractor hire our buy trust with partner

I can think of a chap who did all this got to time to draw in the cash is wife sold that plot of land for a ton of cash kept the lot know he.s pumping money into the next farm same again

See when you get stung its hard to walk away

Thai.s make money falangs pay the bills welcome to thailand

I think Farangs pay if the farang gets bad advice.The farang needs to ask himself''Is his adviser his friend or not.''If not get rid of the advisor,because cant be trusted.black and white.Cut and dried

Cheers Cobbler

Would have to say on the not a farmer bit, don't think many of us paler skinned people would have had any previous experience in rubber, farmer or not. Jim

[hinchmike]

At some point will be going from a comfortable office job in UK to full-time Issan and rubber trees. No farming experience whatsoever.

Hear loads of bad luck stories but sounds like a few of you have made a success of it and look like you're enjoying it. Beats the nine-to-five and the two hour commute everyday.

[jamescollister]

For all us depressed rubber planters, price is down again today, but appears no rubber was actually sold,

.

Now the light at the end of the tunnel

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-24/thai-rubber-exporters-begin-buying-in-tokyo-shanghai-1-.ht

Well worth a read and may shed some light and hope, Keep if you can. Jim

[cobbler]

At some point will be going from a comfortable office job in UK to full-time Issan and rubber trees. No farming experience whatsoever.

Hear loads of bad luck stories but sounds like a few of you have made a success of it and look like you're enjoying it. Beats the nine-to-five and the two hour commute everyday.

ณ I think the best advice I saw was James saying''3,000 trees was a good living for a falang''We all learn from our mistakes.Sometimes it's a bit stressful but I can't imagine going back.So enjoy the good and learn from the bad .

Go the yang farmers.

Cheers Cobbler

[cobbler]

For all us depressed rubber planters, price is down again today, but appears no rubber was actually sold,

.

Now the light at the end of the tunnel

http://www.bloomberg...-shanghai-1-.ht

Well worth a read and may shed some light and hope, Keep if you can. Jim

Hi Jim.tried to open that but I can't.Can anybody please explain??

Cheers Cobbler

[jamescollister]

For all us depressed rubber planters, price is down again today, but appears no rubber was actually sold,

.

Now the light at the end of the tunnel

http://www.bloomberg...-shanghai-1-.ht

Well worth a read and may shed some light and hope, Keep if you can. Jim

Hi Jim.tried to open that but I can't.Can anybody please explain??

Cheers Cobbler

For all us depressed rubber planters, price is down again today, but appears no rubber was actually sold,

.

Now the light at the end of the tunnel

http://www.bloomberg...-shanghai-1-.ht

Well worth a read and may shed some light and hope, Keep if you can. Jim

Hi Jim.tried to open that but I can't.Can anybody please explain??

Cheers Cobbler

Can't open the link my self, will try and find it again and cut and paste.

In short it said Thailand is buying back it;s own rubber at a lesser price then the sold it. Jim

[jamescollister]

Rubber Shippers Buy to Halt 51% Price Slump That Helped Goodyear

By Supunnabul Suwannakij and Chanyaporn Chanjaroen - May 24, 2012 4:14 PM GMT+0700

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Rubber exporters from Thailand, the world’s largest producer, have started purchases on the Tokyo and Shanghai exchanges to shore up prices, according to the Thai Rubber Association.

“Exporters have bought the rubber on the exchanges as it is cheap,” President Prapas Euanontat said by phone from the southern province of Nakhon Si Thammarat. He declined to specify the amount. Shippers will continue buying on overseas bourses “until local prices climb to 120 baht ($3.79) a kilogram, the level the government would like to see.”

Enlarge image

A farmer taps a rubber tree to collect raw latex on a rubber plantation in Rayong province, Thailand. Photographer: Dario Pignatelli/Bloomberg

Futures have plunged 51 percent from a record in February 2011, cutting costs for tire makers such as Bridgestone Corp. (5108), Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. (GT) and Michelin & Cie. (ML) Prices slumped as China, the biggest user, expanded last quarter at its slowest pace in almost three years and Europe struggled to contain its debt crisis. Chinese vehicle sales dropped 1.3 percent in the first four months, the worst performance since 1998, said the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers.

Thailand announced plans last week to buy more than 10,000 metric tons in Tokyo and Shanghai and to continue purchases from local farmers at above-market rates to drive prices higher. The country will work with Indonesia and Malaysia to tackle the slump, said deputy farm minister Nattawut Saikuar. The three nations represent about 70 percent of global supply.

Price Slumps

“At current prices, producers in Malaysia and Indonesia don’t want to plant new trees,” said Pongsak Kerdvongbundit, the group’s honorary president. “Currently there is no shortage. But when the world economy recovers there won’t be extra supply to fill any gap,” he said yesterday at the 2012 World Rubber Summit in Singapore.

Rubber for delivery in October lost 1.7 percent to end at 265 yen kilogram ($3,338 a metric ton), the lowest settlement price for the most-active contract since Dec. 30, on the Tokyo Commodity Exchange.

Global natural rubber consumption is set to expand 3.4 percent to 11.3 million tons this year, while production climbs 3.2 percent also to 11.3 million tons, the International Rubber Study Group said. The Chinese economy will expand 7.9 percent this quarter from a year earlier, according to a Bloomberg survey. That would be the sixth quarterly deceleration after an 8.1 percent expansion in the first three months.

Chinese Demand

“Prices will react negatively to lower demand,” according to Chris Pardey, chief executive officer of RCMA Commodities Asia, a Singapore-based trading company. Output may top demand by 400,000 tons in the six months to December after a deficit of 150,000 tons in the first half. China’s consumption may be unchanged from last year at 3.8 million tons, he said this week, lowering an earlier forecast for 2 percent to 3 percent growth.

Consumption may grow 7.2 percent to 7.4 million tons this year from 6.9 million tons in 2011, Mary Xu, deputy secretary general of the China Rubber Industry Association said today. Of the total, 4 million tons will be synthetic and 3.4 million tons natural, she said. The government’s commitment to bolster growth and its focus on “the development of the automobile industry” will help boost demand for rubber, Xu said.

Exports of passenger-car tires gained 5.7 percent to 338,000 tons in the three months to March, while truck tire shipments surged 15 percent to 504,000 tons, Xu said. Tire output may rise 5.9 percent to 483 million pieces this year.

China will take steps to “expand demand and to create a favorable policy environment for stable and relatively fast economic growth,” the government said yesterday. The statement builds on Premier Wen Jiabao’s comments published May 20, showing a bigger focus on spurring growth.

Thai Supplies

Thai production this year may total around 3.5 million tons as rains in the south, which represents 80 percent of local supplies, have disrupted tapping, Prapas said. The country produced 3.57 million tons last year, according to the Rubber Research Institute of Thailand.

Additional supplies are expected to slow as trees planted in the northeastern provinces, which are mature enough to be tapped, will generate low yields, said Pongsak. Thailand started plantations in the region about seven years ago, expanding from traditional planting areas in the south. Output from the northeast accounts for less than 10 percent of total output, Pongsak said. “In the south, we can only replant, as there’s no available land for new plantations.”

Labor Shortages

Thai rubber plantations will face labor shortages as workers from Myanmar leave for home, Pongsak said. “The most important issue in Thailand now is labor - the majority, a large percentage, of rubber workers in Thailand is from Myanmar. Now Myanmar opened up its country so we are afraid workers will return to their country,” he said.

Labor shortages, shrinking acreage and low yields are threatening production in Malaysia, said Aliasak Ambia, president of the National Association of Smallholders. Plantations area has shrunk to slightly less than one million hectares (2.5 million acres) from about 1.7 million hectares 10 years ago, Ambia said. Farmers have been shifting to oil palm, which takes a shorter time to produce yields, compared with the seven years before a rubber tree can be tapped, he said. Yields are low for small growers, he said.

Indonesia will produce 2.95 million tons this year from 3 million tons in 2011 because of a prolonged rainy season, said Asril Sultan Amir, chairman of the Rubber Association of Indonesia. The country exported about 2.5 million tons of rubber last year, he said.

To contact the reporter on this story: Chanyaporn Chanjaroen in Singapore at [email protected] Supunnabul Suwannakij in Bangkok at [email protected]

To contact the editor responsible for this story: James Poole at [email protected]

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[cobbler]

Nattuwat is the minister who's responsible for signing the deal with China for 100 baht per kilo.Befor he was that job ,he knew nothing about yang.

So if the Thai government has no money,were is the money coming from to buy the 10,000 metric tons?Is it the money which was allocated to guarantee the 100baht per kilo from yang farmers??

Also what will happen when they suddenly sell it all?Will that just flood the market again forcing the prices down again?

Edited August 9, 2012 by cobbler

[jamescollister]

Nattuwat is the minister who's responsible for signing the deal with China for 100 baht per kilo.Befor he was that job ,he knew nothing about yang.

So if the Thai government has no money,were is the money coming from to buy the 10,000 metric tons?Is it the money which was allocated to guarantee the 100baht per kilo from yang farmers??

Also what will happen when they suddenly sell it all?Will that just flood the market again forcing the prices down again?

Think the money is coming from the big rubber houses. They are buying back their own rubber at less than they sold it for.

Looks like there will be a shortage of rubber, soon, but the speculators have yet to buy in, Probably because of the tight banking at the moment.

If I knew the time line and whether the world would come to grips with the financial problems, I would be borrowing money to stock pile.

Will just have to keep as much in the shed as I can afford and hope for a up turn in the market.

Very wary of predictions, got really hammered in 2008, but will live anyway. Wife may have to cut back some. Jim

[cobbler]

Nattuwat is the minister who's responsible for signing the deal with China for 100 baht per kilo.Befor he was that job ,he knew nothing about yang.

So if the Thai government has no money,were is the money coming from to buy the 10,000 metric tons?Is it the money which was allocated to guarantee the 100baht per kilo from yang farmers??

Also what will happen when they suddenly sell it all?Will that just flood the market again forcing the prices down again?

Think the money is coming from the big rubber houses. They are buying back their own rubber at less than they sold it for.

Looks like there will be a shortage of rubber, soon, but the speculators have yet to buy in, Probably because of the tight banking at the moment.

If I knew the time line and whether the world would come to grips with the financial problems, I would be borrowing money to stock pile.

Will just have to keep as much in the shed as I can afford and hope for a up turn in the market.

Very wary of predictions, got really hammered in 2008, but will live anyway. Wife may have to cut back some. Jim

Good luck with that cutback Jim.Thanks for the imfo

Cheers Cobbler

P.S. Sounds to me a bit like they are trying to scare people out of having yang.With doom and gloom talk about Myanmar.What do you think??

[cobbler]

Careful with that storing yang stuff Jim.We know a man here ,not middle man.Stored 10ton last year waiting for price to improve.He went to sell his yang ,and found out it had all gone off.Got nothing,Lost the lot.Know another man storing a lot of yang.Went out 1 day ,came home 15 minutes later to find it all gone.

Bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

[jamescollister]

Nattuwat is the minister who's responsible for signing the deal with China for 100 baht per kilo.Befor he was that job ,he knew nothing about yang.

So if the Thai government has no money,were is the money coming from to buy the 10,000 metric tons?Is it the money which was allocated to guarantee the 100baht per kilo from yang farmers??

Also what will happen when they suddenly sell it all?Will that just flood the market again forcing the prices down again?

Think the money is coming from the big rubber houses. They are buying back their own rubber at less than they sold it for.

Looks like there will be a shortage of rubber, soon, but the speculators have yet to buy in, Probably because of the tight banking at the moment.

If I knew the time line and whether the world would come to grips with the financial problems, I would be borrowing money to stock pile.

Will just have to keep as much in the shed as I can afford and hope for a up turn in the market.

Very wary of predictions, got really hammered in 2008, but will live anyway. Wife may have to cut back some. Jim

Good luck with that cutback Jim.Thanks for the imfo

Cheers Cobbler

P.S. Sounds to me a bit like they are trying to scare people out of having yang.With doom and gloom talk about Myanmar.What do you think??

Think the markets are all about perception, not reality. Burma may grow, but not today or tomorrow. Cold fusion may pop up next week, again, but while people want cars there will be a need for rubber. Jim

[cobbler]

Nattuwat is the minister who's responsible for signing the deal with China for 100 baht per kilo.Befor he was that job ,he knew nothing about yang.

So if the Thai government has no money,were is the money coming from to buy the 10,000 metric tons?Is it the money which was allocated to guarantee the 100baht per kilo from yang farmers??

Also what will happen when they suddenly sell it all?Will that just flood the market again forcing the prices down again?

Think the money is coming from the big rubber houses. They are buying back their own rubber at less than they sold it for.

Looks like there will be a shortage of rubber, soon, but the speculators have yet to buy in, Probably because of the tight banking at the moment.

If I knew the time line and whether the world would come to grips with the financial problems, I would be borrowing money to stock pile.

Will just have to keep as much in the shed as I can afford and hope for a up turn in the market.

Very wary of predictions, got really hammered in 2008, but will live anyway. Wife may have to cut back some. Jim

Good luck with that cutback Jim.Thanks for the imfo

Cheers Cobbler

P.S. Sounds to me a bit like they are trying to scare people out of having yang.With doom and gloom talk about Myanmar.What do you think??

Think the markets are all about perception, not reality. Burma may grow, but not today or tomorrow. Cold fusion may pop up next week, again, but while people want cars there will be a need for rubber. Jim

I'd go with that.I know Myanmar is copping a lot of bad publicity about locking up Thais who owned land there.Seems the myanmar government wanted the land and yang back after Thais had bought it and done all the work.Thais didn't want to give it back,so Myanmar locked them up and made some crap story about them doing drugs on the land.Who is going to want to do business with a country that does that to there guests???

[cobbler]

Also ,when we talk to our workers about going back to myanmar and growing yang on there land,they just say straight''We don't trust the government''Sounds pretty clear to me.

[jamescollister]

Careful with that storing yang stuff Jim.We know a man here ,not middle man.Stored 10ton last year waiting for price to improve.He went to sell his yang ,and found out it had all gone off.Got nothing,Lost the lot.Know another man storing a lot of yang.Went out 1 day ,came home 15 minutes later to find it all gone.

Bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

Have good sheds for storing and have CCTV for thieves. Had the problem a few years ago, plus have big dogs and a gun and a 24/7 caretaker on site now. If I have the money and stock up a large amount, I will be sleeping there. Jim

[cobbler]

Careful with that storing yang stuff Jim.We know a man here ,not middle man.Stored 10ton last year waiting for price to improve.He went to sell his yang ,and found out it had all gone off.Got nothing,Lost the lot.Know another man storing a lot of yang.Went out 1 day ,came home 15 minutes later to find it all gone.

Bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

Have good sheds for storing and have CCTV for thieves. Had the problem a few years ago, plus have big dogs and a gun and a 24/7 caretaker on site now. If I have the money and stock up a large amount, I will be sleeping there. Jim

Soundss good.Good night

[Mosha]

Nattuwat is the minister who's responsible for signing the deal with China for 100 baht per kilo.Befor he was that job ,he knew nothing about yang.

So if the Thai government has no money,were is the money coming from to buy the 10,000 metric tons?Is it the money which was allocated to guarantee the 100baht per kilo from yang farmers??

Also what will happen when they suddenly sell it all?Will that just flood the market again forcing the prices down again?

Think the money is coming from the big rubber houses. They are buying back their own rubber at less than they sold it for.

Looks like there will be a shortage of rubber, soon, but the speculators have yet to buy in, Probably because of the tight banking at the moment.

If I knew the time line and whether the world would come to grips with the financial problems, I would be borrowing money to stock pile.

Will just have to keep as much in the shed as I can afford and hope for a up turn in the market.

Very wary of predictions, got really hammered in 2008, but will live anyway. Wife may have to cut back some. Jim

Good luck with that cutback Jim.Thanks for the imfo

Cheers Cobbler

P.S. Sounds to me a bit like they are trying to scare people out of having yang.With doom and gloom talk about Myanmar.What do you think??

When our guy disappears I'll let you know. Only thing he's doing home wise, is sending is boy to be educated there.

[Mosha]

The rains have disrupted tapping in the south. 555 It's called the rainy season, and the further south you go the more potentially wet days you have. Rain in the dry seasons is not unusual.

Last year was wet, this year it may actually be drier than normal in rainfall amounts. 4.3m total last year v 2.5m to date.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Mosha

[slapout]

The attempt to control price/supply of the rubber market via commodity market, brings back memories of the Hunt brothers, several decades ago. Hope they have deep, virtually unlimited access to cash to get into a position that their plan/idea is feasible.

Perhaps the government/rubber cartel has plans for another market price gurantee, with the taxpayor monies going to a select few. In this case, it would appear they are going to have to deal with non Thai players who have a substantial bankroll as well as connections in their own countries.

[Mosha]

This is what gets me. Nattuwat sells to the Chinese at 100 Baht/kg, but the government wants a price of at least 120 Baht/kg.

[jamescollister]

This is what gets me. Nattuwat sells to the Chinese at 100 Baht/kg, but the government wants a price of at least 120 Baht/kg.

Wheels within wheels, politics and dam lies. Only thing that matters to me is the price on the day and it being down $2 US a kilo is a big chunk of change every month.Jim

[cobbler]

The attempt to control price/supply of the rubber market via commodity market, brings back memories of the Hunt brothers, several decades ago. Hope they have deep, virtually unlimited access to cash to get into a position that their plan/idea is feasible.

Perhaps the government/rubber cartel has plans for another market price gurantee, with the taxpayor monies going to a select few. In this case, it would appear they are going to have to deal with non Thai players who have a substantial bankroll as well as connections in their own countries.

I don't understandSorry ,but the meaning of this ........is?????????

[slapout]

The Hunt brothers tried to contol the silver market a few decades ago and found there were way more influences than they had planned on. They lost their <deleted>.

The Thai ministey is trying to deal in a commodity market which it appears they have virtually no experience in, against player/influence that may not have been considered and to top it off, unlike the Hunts,they are not working with personal assets

I can think of no ag product that the government has not meddled with and subsquently screwed up the market, including and since the lamyai/garlic fiscos.

[Mark1971]

Newbie to this forum and finding it very informative reading it while currently working in UK and sending money to pay for the upkeep of the trees (and girlfriend!).

Have 45 Rai of rubber trees near Ban Dung (Issan) about 2 - 3 years from fruition.

I understand lots of factors involved and complicated, but what is the average yield per Rai (KG/Rai)?

The trees are the latest hybrids (not sure what type exactly) and we've been doing everything by the book so an approximate figure would be helpful.

Thanks

Mike

A modern high latex clone, eg. (RRIT 251, RRIM 3001, JVP 80) should give 500 Kg latex / Rai average yield.

Traditional clones eg. (RRIM 600) should give 300 Kg / Rai average yield.

The average 7m x 3m planting = 75 Trees / Rai.

Modern high latex clone = 6.8 Kg / Tree

Traditional clone = 4 Kg / Tree

Some members are reporting 14 Kg / tree which is much higher than the official averages.