Rubber Trees

[glennb6]

fyi, our trees, started cutting at 7yrs, most between 45-50cm circumference. from yr 6 to 7 they did grow a lot - more than I thought they would. OTOH, there are still about 100 randomly scattered amongst the reset that are quite slim and don't seem to have grown much, no idea. decent output the first year as per all the spec I've read.

Jim, a few months back I had this crazy idea of drying crepe in the event I would have decided to purchase a crepe machine. I did not. However a friend did bring back a blow torch from farangland and give to me. looks to be a cross between a weed burner and a flame thrower and while I have never hooked it to a LNG bottle I suspect it would be dangerously effective at producing flame thus heat. Not using it should you want it. Flammenwerfer is the german term, เครื่องพ่นไฟที่ใช้ในสงคราม for the daring.

[jamescollister]

Re my previous post, what i was trying to say was if people can wait, ie do'nt need the money, then by all means wait to 7 years/50 cms. But, if you can't wait and do need the money, cut at 6 years/42-45 cms. I needed the money, so could'nt wait, but i know my trees are good'uns.Theoretically, bigger gerth = longer cut = more latex, ie cutting third circumference on a 52cms tree compared to a 43cms tree will give you a 3 cm longer cut (52-43=9 divide by 3 = 3). As Jim says, our plantations out-produce all the locals, even trees 2-3 years older. And some of our "giants" - well nobody round here has got anything like them pre 10 years old.

Mike.

.Good point, if you don't need the income wait, only tap trees of size. Have some trees that are 9 years old and didn't have the sun exposure, on the shady side of other trees. Tall and thin, maybe at 12 years old they will stop reaching for sun and be good enough to tap.

It really is all about tree condition, rain fall. water table and of course money, that makes the difference. Jim

[jamescollister]

fyi, our trees, started cutting at 7yrs, most between 45-50cm circumference. from yr 6 to 7 they did grow a lot - more than I thought they would. OTOH, there are still about 100 randomly scattered amongst the reset that are quite slim and don't seem to have grown much, no idea. decent output the first year as per all the spec I've read.

Jim, a few months back I had this crazy idea of drying crepe in the event I would have decided to purchase a crepe machine. I did not. However a friend did bring back a blow torch from farangland and give to me. looks to be a cross between a weed burner and a flame thrower and while I have never hooked it to a LNG bottle I suspect it would be dangerously effective at producing flame thus heat. Not using it should you want it. Flammenwerfer is the german term, เครื่องพ่นไฟที่ใช้ในสงคราม for the daring.

Don't think I would need it for rubber, but it may be good for getting some of my workers off their asses. A short blast and off they go. Jim

[IsaanAussie]

Here is an idea for a drier. Build a corrugated iron shed as big as you need to hold a day or sos sheet. Or even a few smaller ones. The shed is above the ground say about a metre. On each face is a black paint corrugated iron sheet covered by glass with a few inches of air gap these are sloping from near the ground up to just under the shed (cupboard). A fan is positioned above the top end of the four ramps sealed in a box with the four ramps the only entries . Operation is the fan draws air up each of the "solar collector" ramps into the shed base. Hot air is flows up through the hanging sheets and vents out the top. Control the fan speed to vary the temperature. Note the iron shed also heats the rubber.

[thaiguzzi]

Claus,

i presume your trees are actually 5.5 years old rather than 5.0? If so then the circumference is fine - average to good. However looking at the photos, it looks like the canopy is not that big. I was cutting grass this morning on our 26 rai plantation with 4.5 year old trees (5 in may/june), these are 7m apart and the canopy has nearly filled in the gap. Max a metre apart. So on your 6m gap i would have thought canopy should have closed up by now. Trees are 600. Perhaps change the numbers on the fertiliser you have been using, we've used 20-10-12 for the last 3 years on our younger trees, top brand name obviously. Once trees are getting a decent size girth-wise, i'm just looking at canopy. Good green leaf, and lots of it. Big canopy = happy tree, more leaf means the tree can absorb more energy, grow quicker and, hopefully, produce more latex.

Regards,

Mike.

[Mosha]

We went to a wake last night. The seating which was covered, was set up between the rubber trees. What a waste of space, I reckon the rows were almost 6m separation maybe 4m the other way

[Dancealot]

Processiing rubber like this? What a stench

[Mosha]

SIL used to buy it, and we for most of the year are down wind

[jamescollister]

SIL used to buy it, and we for most of the year are down wind

But it's the smell of money if you are smart. Jim

[cobbler]

We went to a wake last night. The seating which was covered, was set up between the rubber trees. What a waste of space, I reckon the rows were almost 6m separation maybe 4m the other way

Don't worry.Big space like that and the trees will get a lot bigger than trees planted closer .Hence give a lot more yang= more money

[cobbler]

Sold today for 87 per liko.Now it's raining,.Should drag the season out a bit longer now.Picked wing deens long beens pumpkins enough for 6 months bananas picked some of those prick hom or prick gee gnoo chillis.Also beer is cold.All in all a good day.

[cobbler]

Sunday, I'm bored, no coconut watering, had to stay home and mind the kids.

Just sitting down for the first cold one of the day and thought I may as well write something on my quest for hot air rubber sheet drying.

It got me thinking, after I got the rolling machines working right and rubber was hung in the smoker shed to dry, everyone thought they had been hot air dried, but no heat had been applied.

First thing I learned was I had no idea of what it was all about, listening to what the locals said was as reliable as listening to my dog.

Thailand for much of the year has very high humidity, so high that at times the air can not absorb any more water. At night the air actually returns water to the sheet rubber and mold grows, bad sheet. Now even with the smoke house going the air is still moist and we would need to burn 1/2 of Thailands forests to keep the fires going 24/7.

Hot air drying has nothing to do with heat in the end, it's all about de humidifying the air. It makes no difference how you heat the shed as long as you get dry air. I also had the temperatures way too high, 38 degrees is the ideal.

The design really can be simple, as long as moisture can escape and the damp air can't get in. So the shed can be made of any thing with a few vents in the roof to allow the moist air out. I will go for concrete bricks, sheet iron and clear plastic roof. A few of those roof vents with cones over them, to keep the rain out.

Heating can be done by many means from gas hot air blower, if green, hot water pipes run through the shed, heated by solar. I on cost will go for the cheaper system, 5 /100 liter steel drums wielded together to for a tube and attached to a concrete ring outside of the shed, for the fire pit. beauty of this system, unlike smoking is you can burn anything, garbage, grass, plastic, if it burns and gives heat you can use it.

If you already smoke sheet, you would normally smoke it for 3 or 4 days before it is cured, a lot of wood. If you smoke for 24 hours then hot air dry the sheet will be graded as RSS grade 1.

Time for another cold one, so bye for now. Jim

HI Jim

Have been working with wood all my life, i have a fair understanding of wood drying. To dry wood is very similar to dry rubber i guess. I here try to share some of the fundamentals of wood drying.

Wood contain water, that is unwanted as wood change shape / size when the water content change and if water content are too high it will mold, same as rubber. Water content in wood change when the air humidity around it change. Air Humidity (amount of water in air) change with temperature and available water in the area. The higher air temperature the higher amount of water air can contain.

So when we dry wood we always think about humidity and temperature. Sometimes we even add water to the air in the drying kiln as we don't want the wood to dry too fast as that will crack the wood.

The water in the wood simply goes into the dryer air, as air circulate around the wood surfaces, and this happen slowly over time, this is the same for rubber i guess. So the dryer air we can have in a rubber drying kiln the faster the rubber will dry. Now dry air can be created in many ways either by higher the temperature of the air or by removing water from the air with a de-humidifier, like some air conditioners have that function. In most wood drying kiln's hot air is the mean of getting the air dry.

So the rubber kiln have to have a source of heating in some way. here there are many ways, I would explore the possibility of solar heating in some way. Maybe have the roof made of glass. And have the possibility of hot water heating like a boiler, when the sun is off. (search on google for "Solar kiln")

Next we need to make sure that the hot air is well and even distributed trough out the whole drying kiln, this is very important to make sure that all rubber is dried evenly. This is best done by having internal fans that in some way circulate the air all the time tough out the whole drying process.

The drying kiln need to have the function to release the wet air and take in dry air. This can be done with shutter fans like the one thais use in the toilet, one could attache a timer to open and close it at desired intervals, as it is not needed to run all the time. The shutter fan's can be used to control temperature and humidity. For each shutter fan you will need to have a equal size shutter vent for the air to get in to the kiln. Shutter fan and shutter vent have to be placed away from each other so the wet air do not go into the kiln again. Also it is best to place the shutter fan in the top of the kiln as that is where the hottest air is. Here I strongly recommend that you make the kiln as air tight as possible, small gaps to be sealed with silicon. This is critical for the shutter fan to work correctly.

We will need to make sure that the rubber sheets are hanged with enough space between them so the air can circulate easily over the surface of the sheets. And we don't want to have uneven loading of the kiln as then the circulation air will only go where it is easiest to go, where there are less rubber sheets or any open space.

Drying time will depend on kiln temperature, the outside air humidity and thickness of the rubber sheet's, in the winter time where it is very dry, at least in the north part of Thailand, it will be faster compared to the wet season.

What i have described above are a smoke free drying setup. I am not sure if the smoke it self, from burning wood, have any direct effect on the rubber sheets other than making them darker color. Jim ?

Wood used for indoor furniture's will need to have a MAX water content of about 7 to 8 % that will keep the wood stable and prevent cracking in most indoor climates.

So for rubber drying we need to establish the desired water content, what i believe is 2 to 3 %, Jim?

And we need to be able to test the water content to make sure we have reached the desired water content, I suggest that you place some (2 to 3 small test sheets) in the kiln that we can make test on after the drying is finished, Jim you know how to test sheets for water content after drying ? (scale, force dry, scale)?

Below a simple sketch of a wood drying kiln to give you some ideas how it works.

As you can see the air circulation fan in the top of the kiln is placed over the inner roof, this fan will force the air to the left side of the kiln and force it trough the wood stacked up in the middle and back up to the fan on the right side of the kiln. you can see that baffles (cover panels) are places in the top and bottom to make sure the air not go over and under the wood stack's.

Hope this is useful info.

Claus

Shit wow looks amazing.How much will it cost.?We dont have anything like that and have never seen 1.We never lose money through wet mats.Are you sure you wouldnt be better off just building a good shed with a good laser lite roof on it.?You are welcome to come down here anytime.I'd be happy to show you many sheds that never have mouldy rubber in them.Sheds are set up at a fraction of what that would cost to build,hence not eating into those margins.If your sheets are nice and thin you don't need to fork out all that cash.No offence,and good luck

[jamescollister]

Sold today for 87 per liko.Now it's raining,.Should drag the season out a bit longer now.Picked wing deens long beens pumpkins enough for 6 months bananas picked some of those prick hom or prick gee gnoo chillis.Also beer is cold.All in all a good day.

Wish we had some rain here, but as I read your post the frogs start up. A sure sign of some rain tonight. JIm

[cobbler]

Clause,

You'll be surprised.your trees will be probably ready to tap next year,just be sure you put good fertilizer on them.50 cm is a good size.As Jim said he was there when his trees cut first opened.Big danger if care is not taken at this time.Especially if trees are too small because the bark is very thin at this age and size so easy to cut into the wood.Trees can end up <deleted>#&d for life and really stunt there growth from that time on.Try to be sure at time of very 1st tap you have experienced tappers as the worker can't see where the bark ends and the wood begins,Good luck in your area with this as people talk a lot of shit.However everybody else survives so I guess you will tooooooooo

Good luck

HI

So what you are saying is that most likely some of my tree's will reach 50cm next year some time. That sounds amazing, I expected my trees to reach 50cm at the age of 8 years. I will just have to wait and see.

Claus

Mate mostly it will depend on the rain ,when and how much.Also the fertilizer

.

[cobbler]

Sold today for 87 per liko.Now it's raining,.Should drag the season out a bit longer now.Picked wing deens long beens pumpkins enough for 6 months bananas picked some of those prick hom or prick gee gnoo chillis.Also beer is cold.All in all a good day.

Wish we had some rain here, but as I read your post the frogs start up. A sure sign of some rain tonight. JIm

Hey Jim if there isn't rain for 3 months in a row.Your coconut palms become date palms.So get out there and start dancing and make it bloody rain.Careful not to step on any frogs

[cobbler]

SIL used to buy it, and we for most of the year are down wind

But it's the smell of money if you are smart. Jim

mmmm homm'

[cobbler]

Had 15mm of rain last night and raining now.leaves are all falling off now so they'll be gone in a few days or a week.So flow will drop back now but beggers can't be choosers.Still will cut untill seeds have all formed.Then let the trees rest.Idea is that goodness goes into the tree not into the seeds.As if you didn't know that already.Think I got too much time on my kikiat hands

[Mosha]

Down to Penang tomorrow, we are still tapping, which is a surprise. See you next week.

[jamescollister]

Down to Penang tomorrow, we are still tapping, which is a surprise. See you next week.

Surprisingly even though a very very dry year, we are still tapping 2 on 1 off, Output is dropping, but not enough to have gone over to 1 on 1 off or 1 on 2 off.

Hope we can keep going for awhile yet, get some money in the bank for the down time.

Looks like we will survive for another year, car payments 4 months in advance, will do a big shop at Makro, fill the freezer, next week and I should have enough cash to see us through the non rubber time without having to reduce the beer allowance. Jim

[cobbler]

Jim as long as there a few coldies in the fridge all is good.

Never can tell what's going to happen.Just as I thought all the leaves were going to be off,the rain freshened things up And we are back up over 80KG per day.Tap 3 and 1 off.So all is good for a while yet.Myanma told me this morning ''leaves not all gone for another 15 days yet now that we had that rain.Got nice cold nights too ,that helps a lot.It'll all come to an end soon though.

Happy days all in all

Cheers Cobbler

[thaiguzzi]

Ditto, still on 2 on, 1 off. However we sell on monday, after that we will still cut 2 on/1 off, but only about 750 from 1850 trees, and 500 from 550 on the other plantation. Very little leaf left. Some trees are producing very little and some are pouring it out. Pity 'cos it's dam_n cold at night. One more sale a fortnight on monday and we stop, pack up and go again mid-late april, but instead of 1850 from 2200 trees will be more like 2050 from 2220. Also 550 will probably become 600. More trees, more rubber, let's hope the prices pick up.

Mike.

[kwonitoy]

We had our last sale on Jan 13, and packed it in for the season.

Exactly the same day as last year and this year was bone dry since Sept.

Next year we start to open more sections up and then it's every year open up another piece of land

Maybe I can quit my day job eventually, it's hot in the outback right now

Ken

[slapout]

Does my old heart good to see the upbeat attitude of most of the rubber farmers as well as the other type farmers on TV. Granted a few have had more than their share of problems/setbacks, but I have no doubt that they will come out swinging and find a way.

It does appear that most of us farang , involved in farming have contributed a little to our adopted home. When you have given more than you have taken from the land and the family/society you live in, it will be eventually noted. It might be a toast to the "old bastard" after we are gone, but it will be made as a tribute for the good that will last longer than those who started and maintaned the care of a little patch of land.

[jamescollister]

Does my old heart good to see the upbeat attitude of most of the rubber farmers as well as the other type farmers on TV. Granted a few have had more than their share of problems/setbacks, but I have no doubt that they will come out swinging and find a way.

It does appear that most of us farang , involved in farming have contributed a little to our adopted home. When you have given more than you have taken from the land and the family/society you live in, it will be eventually noted. It might be a toast to the "old bastard" after we are gone, but it will be made as a tribute for the good that will last longer than those who started and maintaned the care of a little patch of land.

Nicely said.

Think I once posted.

There are 2 types of farangs that come here to live.

Those that come to get a life and those who come to make a life.

If you come to farm you come to make a life for you and yours, not just have a life.

My bones will rest in the local Wat one day, but think my epitaph will read a bit more than he was a good company man. Jim

[cobbler]

HA you never can tell wats going to happen.Our mon (Myanmar) worker here at the house must have decided to cut 2 on 1 off not 3 on 1 off.1st I learned of it was this morning when I woke up and looked out the window to see no fresh tang on the side of the trees.Oh well I guess he knows what he's doing .He's been at this game a lot longer than I have.

Talk on Thai news is that price of rubber is set to improve next season.

[cobbler]

Hi Jim,.You must be having your best year ever.Other years you have been closed before going for your Christmas holiday in Australia.Not this year,still going strong in January .Thats great to see Cheers Cobbler

[jamescollister]

Hi Jim,.You must be having your best year ever.Other years you have been closed before going for your Christmas holiday in Australia.Not this year,still going strong in January .Thats great to see Cheers Cobbler

No not really, usually have enough money to go to OZ for Xmas.

We in fact get a very long season, think last year, very wet, we only stopped tapping for 6 weeks, As said earlier, high water table this close to the mountains, lots of small streams that do not go dry. Good rubber land. Jim

[hansje1980]

hi everyone,

i didnt know there was a farming category on the thaivisa haha, great to see so much activity and i love this rubbertree topic!

however, i do have a few "newbie" questions.

i have only 14 rai of land @ border of khonkaen/chaiyapum , with almost 1000 trees on it, its getting dry lately and i want to make a hole for ground water.

many topics ive read are about waterpumps and such, but howmuch water does my (future) waterpump need to pump for the dry seasons so they get water every day?

i have no electric, and fuel is expensive, and i found out i might as well go for a solar pump, and now it comes... would 250 liter on a sunny day per hour be enough water be enough for the trees? the trees are 2 years old.

it wont be on for 24/7 ofcourse, perhaps if only 2 liters is needed per 2yr old tree per day, this would mean:

1000 trees x 2L = 2000 Liters, so I need to have it running for 2000/250 = 8 hours a day (and perhaps with the use of some kind of timer mechanism in case i'm not there for a day)

Ofcourse the 250L/hour is just an example, because I just name one of the example solarpumps Ive read about in another thread.

Advice is welcome co-farmers

[jamescollister]

hi everyone,

i didnt know there was a farming category on the thaivisa haha, great to see so much activity and i love this rubbertree topic!

however, i do have a few "newbie" questions.

i have only 14 rai of land @ border of khonkaen/chaiyapum , with almost 1000 trees on it, its getting dry lately and i want to make a hole for ground water.

many topics ive read are about waterpumps and such, but howmuch water does my (future) waterpump need to pump for the dry seasons so they get water every day?

i have no electric, and fuel is expensive, and i found out i might as well go for a solar pump, and now it comes... would 250 liter on a sunny day per hour be enough water be enough for the trees? the trees are 2 years old.

it wont be on for 24/7 ofcourse, perhaps if only 2 liters is needed per 2yr old tree per day, this would mean:

1000 trees x 2L = 2000 Liters, so I need to have it running for 2000/250 = 8 hours a day (and perhaps with the use of some kind of timer mechanism in case i'm not there for a day)

Ofcourse the 250L/hour is just an example, because I just name one of the example solarpumps Ive read about in another thread.

Advice is welcome co-farmers

At 2 years old they don't need watering. Water never hurts, but if it's that dry and area they need water. Then you need to look hard at irrigation, or when it comes time to get rubber you will get very low yield,. Jim

[cobbler]

hi everyone,

i didnt know there was a farming category on the thaivisa haha, great to see so much activity and i love this rubbertree topic!

however, i do have a few "newbie" questions.

i have only 14 rai of land @ border of khonkaen/chaiyapum , with almost 1000 trees on it, its getting dry lately and i want to make a hole for ground water.

many topics ive read are about waterpumps and such, but howmuch water does my (future) waterpump need to pump for the dry seasons so they get water every day?

i have no electric, and fuel is expensive, and i found out i might as well go for a solar pump, and now it comes... would 250 liter on a sunny day per hour be enough water be enough for the trees? the trees are 2 years old.

it wont be on for 24/7 ofcourse, perhaps if only 2 liters is needed per 2yr old tree per day, this would mean:

1000 trees x 2L = 2000 Liters, so I need to have it running for 2000/250 = 8 hours a day (and perhaps with the use of some kind of timer mechanism in case i'm not there for a day)

Ofcourse the 250L/hour is just an example, because I just name one of the example solarpumps Ive read about in another thread.

Advice is welcome co-farmers

At 2 years old they don't need watering. Water never hurts, but if it's that dry and area they need water. Then you need to look hard at irrigation, or when it comes time to get rubber you will get very low yield,. Jim

Yes this is true what Jim is saying.Be careful you don't over spend.As you may end up spending more on your system than you will get in returns.You will be spending $ but earning baht.Good luck with it all.

Hi Jim,.You must be having your best year ever.Other years you have been closed before going for your Christmas holiday in Australia.Not this year,still going strong in January .Thats great to see Cheers Cobbler

No not really, usually have enough money to go to OZ for Xmas.

We in fact get a very long season, think last year, very wet, we only stopped tapping for 6 weeks, As said earlier, high water table this close to the mountains, lots of small streams that do not go dry. Good rubber land. Jim

Sorry mate I just thought that cause you lost so many trees when they were young it must have been very dry there for 3 or 4 months of the year.Rubber tree roots are shallow covering the grounds surface. so surface water is crucial for the production of rubber.It's good you have a very high water table there,must be able to dig 6 inches or so and strike water,thats great.