Snoh Confirms Move To Pheu Thai

[termad]

The figures I mention above include Newin's group in PPP before its dissolution.

Apisit became an MP when he was 27 and has a record of Parliamentary attendance that puts most MPs to shame.

Let's see Yinglak debate with him on TV regarding policies and their implementation, the Thai people have the right to know their prospective leaders insights and poitical strategies.

K. Siripon, the Thai people indeed have a right to know their prospective 'leaders', but a televised debate seems 'not the Thai way', at least at the moment. Maybe when the questions are forwarded to the candidates a few days before AND no other questions are allowed AND AND AND, maybe we could have such a Q&A. A real debate seems out of the question till Thai concepts evolve a bit more, IMHO

Time to join the 21st century.

Both contestants are overseas-educated and should be able to voice their Party's platform and positions on issues confronting Thailand today in front of all their constituents.

If Thailand can handle the televising of the Parliamentary debates, this is just a one-to-one version of that.

Who was that boxing referee who used to preface each match with, "Let's get it on!"

What does overseas educated have to do with anything?

[Insight]

Very good.

QUOTE(Insight):"Personally doubt very much the person funding the overwhelming majority of red shirt activities would of escaped his attention, along with the agenda of that person."

Lennon was an aggessive and violent individual. He would have had an affinity with The Red-Shirts and their cause. After all - in real life his friends included such violent extremists as David Peel - Jerry Rubin and Abbie Hoffman who made no secret of their support of violence to further their agenda.

And as for Thaksin - although Lennon sang:

"Imagine no possessions - I wonder if you can". He also lived a millionaire's lifestyle at the time so any contradictions Thaksin and his ethics may have posed for him would have been easily overcome and ignored.

I have my doubts as to whether Lennon was "an aggressive and violent individual" - everything I understood about the guy runs completely contrary to that. It's interesting that you acknowledge its this characteristic of the red shirts he would of been attracted to however.

But watching how you've swayed from one side to the other over the years, something tells me this is more a case of bulmercke, a rebel with any cause he can cling to.

[animatic]

....Are you saying that the electors who voted for the PPP MPs who were part of Newin's Friends of Newin actually voted for the Democrats?

What did Abhisit do before he was 27?

No, he isn't.

He is saying that the people who voted for the friends of Newin

voted for the Friends of Newin and what they could do for them,

and not for PPP. If the Friends of Newin do a better deal with the Dems than PTP,

then their constituents can see them doing their best for them.

PTP doesn't matter, they were not voted for.

Just as the Friends of Newin faction will be voting BJT and not PTP.

PTP doesn't matter to them anymore.

[Buchholz]

The figures I mention above include Newin's group in PPP before its dissolution.

Apisit became an MP when he was 27 and has a record of Parliamentary attendance that puts most MPs to shame.

Let's see Yinglak debate with him on TV regarding policies and their implementation, the Thai people have the right to know their prospective leaders insights and poitical strategies.

K. Siripon, the Thai people indeed have a right to know their prospective 'leaders', but a televised debate seems 'not the Thai way', at least at the moment. Maybe when the questions are forwarded to the candidates a few days before AND no other questions are allowed AND AND AND, maybe we could have such a Q&A. A real debate seems out of the question till Thai concepts evolve a bit more, IMHO

Time to join the 21st century.

Both contestants are overseas-educated and should be able to voice their Party's platform and positions on issues confronting Thailand today in front of all their constituents.

If Thailand can handle the televising of the Parliamentary debates, this is just a one-to-one version of that.

Who was that boxing referee who used to preface each match with, "Let's get it on!"

What does overseas educated have to do with anything?

Simply that both candidates are well-educated and should be able to report on their respective Parties plans in a coherent manner. It's something the public wants to see and they should.

It's a positive step that then, as in the other thread started today, that Abhisit has initiated proceedings to have a debate take place. It's in her court now whether to accept.

As Mills Lane used to say, "Let's get it on!"

[NanLaew]

Despite Thaksin's absurd public proclamation that he had eliminated all drugs everywhere in Thailand, drugs never disappeared from the streets during Thaksin's murderous Drug War. They were only made more expensive. Similarly, no major drug dealers were removed, either.

2,500 non-judicial murders was the result. With Snoh's adding "ultimate" to the next Drug War, one can only imagine how many citizens will be murdered in it.

Grandma Udom may not be so lucky to escape with her life in the next one. She also doesn't qualify for your label, "dogshit"

It was a work in progress.

2500 extra judicial killings and the best that we can come up with is a dead refrigerator?

Who writes this dogshit?

[NanLaew]

to wage the ultimate war on illicit drugs," he said.

Given Snoh's past association with TRT and his new found association with the TRT proxy PTP, that's more than a bit disconcerting verbiage.

Why? The promise of getting drugs and dealers of the streets was pretty much fulfilled. Is it really such a pity that much of the dogshit disappeared in the process?

Do any of these people you describe of as being "dogshit" have names?

Why? You planning a memorial?

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[termad]

The only talk of a coup is coming from the fat man, who thankfully is now in jail, joining in the same successful diet programme as Victor Bout and Nattawut.

The last coup was welcomed by the middle class.

Jatupon claimed on stage last year that the rank and file soldiers, hailing from Issan and the North, would not follow orders to march against the red shirts.

As usual, he was wrong.

Your statement overlooks several critical facts. Specifically;

1. The police had been unable to control the crowds. This may have been due to either an inadequcy and/or an unwillngess to engage the protestors.

2. Until May 14, regular army units had been deployed. There was a reluctance to move against the protestors. Actions consisted mostly of containment and "picking off" protestors when the opportunity arose. The commanders at the time were reported to have expressed a reluctance to take actions that would have caused large scale damage or injuries.

3. The turning point came when the 21st Infantry Regiment of the Royal Armament, aka the Queen's Guard, were deployed. At the same time, the 2nd Infantry Battalion of the 31stInfantry Regiment aka the Royal Guards were deployed. Army regulars were replaced at key contact points with Royal unit personnel.

4. On May 19, the red barricades were breached by a Royal Guards attack, and the end of the protests started, whileBangkok's commercial structures were set on fire.

I offer that until the regular army units and the police were replaced by the Royal units, no significant action was undertaken. The reluctance to act until that time may have been a reflection of the police regular army's reluctance to inflict fatalities and physical damage to Bangkok. Is it a coincidence that the police and army units personnel are drawn from the general population with a heavy weighting from the north and north east?

The term middle class is misused in Thailand. Supposedly the middle class occupies the space between the working class and the upper classes in Thailand. If one applies the conventional western parameters of the middle class; a good education, a professional or senior management position and home ownership, then yes the middle class might very well have been supporters of the military coup. On the other hand if one uses the definition that is typically used in Thailand and is best expressed by the Asian Development Bank, "people living on approximately US$2-20 per day as determining middle class status. For a family of two parents and two children, therefore, that would equate to a family income of around 7,200-72,000 baht per month. That would encompass the great majority of urban, salary-owning Thai citizens.", then the answer would be no, the middle class did not support a coup.

The rank and file members of the Royal Thai Army hailing from the North and Northeast were not given orders to march against the red shirts. The killings on the streets were carried out by soldiers from the east on the instructions of their then commanding officer Gen Prayuth Chan Ocha with the assistance of some special forces. Prior to their glorious victory over the civilian protesters Chan Ocha had awarded these soldiers the title of 'The Eastern Tigers' and insisted that everybody refer to them as such. Also, if you were in Bangkok at the time you would know from press reports that many injured men treated in Bangkok hospitals were soldiers from the North and Northeast who had come out of their Bangkok barracks to join the redshirts. That was reported in both newspapers at the time.A month ago Chan ocha issued a statement to the media that a psychotic academic who causes problems was 'trying to destroy the monarchy' The academic he was referring to was Somsak Jeamteerasakul a very respected Thammasat university lecturer. Chan ocha also lumped Mr Somsk's case in with three red shirt leaders. The royal Thai Army has now charged Somsak Jeamteerasakul with LM offences which has prompted a complaint and a request to Abhisit to review this case by Malaysian parliamentarians. With the Royal Thai Army now starting to bring criminal charges against civilians I thimk it is very hard to deny that the RTA has become the military wing of the Abhisit regime.

Perhaps you would also like to define who the 'middle class' are and what small percentage of the Thai population they constitute.

[rubl]

Despite Thaksin's absurd public proclamation that he had eliminated all drugs everywhere in Thailand, drugs never disappeared from the streets during Thaksin's murderous Drug War. They were only made more expensive. Similarly, no major drug dealers were removed, either.

2,500 non-judicial murders was the result. With Snoh's adding "ultimate" to the next Drug War, one can only imagine how many citizens will be murdered in it.

Grandma Udom may not be so lucky to escape with her life in the next one. She also doesn't qualify for your label, "dogshit"

It was a work in progress.

2500 extra judicial killings and the best that we can come up with is a dead refrigerator?

Who writes this dogshit?

The 2500++ have been buried. The refrigerator doesn't offend too much even with those bullet holes. The HRW wrote a report long time ago, not really dog poo.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

As much as the execution of the drug war was criminal and a violation of human rights and the course of law, it was popular AND successful. Of course drugs didn't completely disappear, but a price hike from a couple baht to serious money meant that far far fewer people took them. The results were really quite obvious. Everyone who had some exposure to certain scenes in those years will have noticed it very clearly. Even now it's not as bad as it was pre-2001 or so.

[jdinasia]

As much as the execution of the drug war was criminal and a violation of human rights and the course of law, it was popular AND successful. Of course drugs didn't completely disappear, but a price hike from a couple baht to serious money meant that far far fewer people took them. The results were really quite obvious. Everyone who had some exposure to certain scenes in those years will have noticed it very clearly. Even now it's not as bad as it was pre-2001 or so.

It never ceases to amaze me ... 1/2 the people claim it is worse now than ever before ... 1/2 say it was worse in the past (if it was worse in the past --- then the current government must be doing something right without having to execute 1400+ innocents!) ...... Prices being higher? Maybe that was the idea in the first place since Thaksin's war on drugs didn't bag any big fish ... while it did kill more innocents than it did dealers .... and all without the benefit of a trial or judicial review even! .....

I think the claim of "far fewer people took them" is simply not true but hey, maybe someone can come up with a reliable source of statistics indicating drug use and drug addiction went down ....

[Buchholz]

Is it really such a pity that much of the dogshit disappeared in the process?

Despite Thaksin's absurd public proclamation that he had eliminated all drugs everywhere in Thailand, drugs never disappeared from the streets during Thaksin's murderous Drug War. They were only made more expensive. Similarly, no major drug dealers were removed, either.

2,500 non-judicial murders was the result. With Snoh's adding "ultimate" to the next Drug War, one can only imagine how many citizens will be murdered in it.

Grandma Udom may not be so lucky to escape with her life in the next one. She also doesn't qualify for your label, "dogshit"

It was a work in progress.

2500 extra judicial killings and the best that we can come up with is a dead refrigerator?

Who writes this dogshit?

It was a completed work, according to its originator Thaksin. He proclaimed there were no more drugs in Thailand. He had eliminated them.

You're disappointed that more gory and graphic photos of mass murder weren't displayed on the board? What is gained by showing stomach-turning pics of men, women, and children with head shots through their splattered brains?

As for dogshit, look at your own quoted post above that started its use.

All people are scum is your message.

We get that.

[termad]

....Are you saying that the electors who voted for the PPP MPs who were part of Newin's Friends of Newin actually voted for the Democrats?

What did Abhisit do before he was 27?

No, he isn't.

He is saying that the people who voted for the friends of Newin

voted for the Friends of Newin and what they could do for them,

and not for PPP. If the Friends of Newin do a better deal with the Dems than PTP,

then their constituents can see them doing their best for them.

PTP doesn't matter, they were not voted for.

Just as the Friends of Newin faction will be voting BJT and not PTP.

PTP doesn't matter to them anymore.

The Friends of Newin faction don't vote for anybody they are just a group of corrupt MPs led by a banned politician who - as I said previously - was described by the BBC as a notorious Thai politician. Abhisit was made PM during meetings in an army barracks with Newin and the Generals - fully reported in the local press and shown on TV including pictures of a smirking Abhisit with his arm around Newin's shoulder. In the meetings in an army barracks it was agreed that large sums of money would be paid to Newin and his forty friends if the forty elected PPP MPs betrayed the electors who voted for them and sold their millions of votes by supporting Abhisit's installation as PM. After that they formed the Bhumjaithai party with Newin as the de facto leader. It is very strange that you now support Newin because you and others on this forum have said in the past that Phue Thai party should be disolved under the electoral law because their de facto leader is a banned politician so why do you not say that Bhumjaithai party should also be disolved because their de facto leader is a notorious Thai Politician and is also banned from carrying out political activities in Thailand. Is it because if that had happened there would have had to have been 40 by-elections called and Abhisit would have had to step down? Do you also think that the Bhumjaithai MPs will be re-elected? If so why do they need so many armed bodyguards to visit their constituencies? As revealed in the censure debates and in the press there have been of huge corruption accusations levelled against Bhumjaithai since they were made part of the Abhisit coalition. The Doctors of Thailand Council even made in direct complaint to Abhisit. What did Abhisit do? Nothing, because nothing matters to him as long as he is still sitting in somebody elses chair. So what he has been doing instead is turning a blind eye to what the coalition partiies have been getting up and leaving the rest to the Courts. And you accuse Thaksin of corruption?

Edited May 16, 2011 by termad

[termad]

The only talk of a coup is coming from the fat man, who thankfully is now in jail, joining in the same successful diet programme as Victor Bout and Nattawut.

The last coup was welcomed by the middle class.

Jatupon claimed on stage last year that the rank and file soldiers, hailing from Issan and the North, would not follow orders to march against the red shirts.

As usual, he was wrong.

Your statement overlooks several critical facts. Specifically;

1. The police had been unable to control the crowds. This may have been due to either an inadequcy and/or an unwillngess to engage the protestors.

2. Until May 14, regular army units had been deployed. There was a reluctance to move against the protestors. Actions consisted mostly of containment and "picking off" protestors when the opportunity arose. The commanders at the time were reported to have expressed a reluctance to take actions that would have caused large scale damage or injuries.

3. The turning point came when the 21st Infantry Regiment of the Royal Armament, aka the Queen's Guard, were deployed. At the same time, the 2nd Infantry Battalion of the 31stInfantry Regiment aka the Royal Guards were deployed. Army regulars were replaced at key contact points with Royal unit personnel.

4. On May 19, the red barricades were breached by a Royal Guards attack, and the end of the protests started, whileBangkok's commercial structures were set on fire.

I offer that until the regular army units and the police were replaced by the Royal units, no significant action was undertaken. The reluctance to act until that time may have been a reflection of the police regular army's reluctance to inflict fatalities and physical damage to Bangkok. Is it a coincidence that the police and army units personnel are drawn from the general population with a heavy weighting from the north and north east?

The term middle class is misused in Thailand. Supposedly the middle class occupies the space between the working class and the upper classes in Thailand. If one applies the conventional western parameters of the middle class; a good education, a professional or senior management position and home ownership, then yes the middle class might very well have been supporters of the military coup. On the other hand if one uses the definition that is typically used in Thailand and is best expressed by the Asian Development Bank, "people living on approximately US$2-20 per day as determining middle class status. For a family of two parents and two children, therefore, that would equate to a family income of around 7,200-72,000 baht per month. That would encompass the great majority of urban, salary-owning Thai citizens.", then the answer would be no, the middle class did not support a coup.

Dear GKid, please stick to the point.

Coup rumours abound, none emerging. The last coup in September 2006 was welcomed by middle class and others. The Army involved in cleaning up protesters included various units between April 10th and May 19th 2010.

The points you raise may or may not be valid, but do not address k. Siriporn's points.

The police being 'unable' to operate professionally suggest no choice but to call in the army. Army units were surprised by unexpected violence in trying to disperse protesters, so call in better units. Those better units breached the barricades and Bangkok started burning? No funny suggestion here, now would there? Lastly the part on 'middle-class' I will not even respond to.

Back to the drawing-board methinks. alternatively go stand in the downpour we're having now here in Bangkok :-)

Who are the people that you describe as middle class? Who are the others that you refer to?

What percentage of the Thai population are the middle class that you refer to? What percentage of the Thai population are the others that you refer to?

Are you suggesting that the votes of any one particular group in the Thai population is more important than the votes and opinions of the rest of the Thai population?

[bulmercke]

....Are you saying that the electors who voted for the PPP MPs who were part of Newin's Friends of Newin actually voted for the Democrats?

What did Abhisit do before he was 27?

No, he isn't.

He is saying that the people who voted for the friends of Newin

voted for the Friends of Newin and what they could do for them,

and not for PPP. If the Friends of Newin do a better deal with the Dems than PTP,

then their constituents can see them doing their best for them.

PTP doesn't matter, they were not voted for.

Just as the Friends of Newin faction will be voting BJT and not PTP.

PTP doesn't matter to them anymore.

The Friends of Newin faction don't vote for anybody they are just a group of corrupt MPs led by a banned politician who - as I said previously - was described by the BBC as a notorious Thai politician. Abhisit was made PM during meetings in an army barracks with Newin and the Generals - fully reported in the local press and shown on TV including pictures of a smirking Abhisit with his arm around Newin's shoulder. In the meetings in an army barracks it was agreed that large sums of money would be paid to Newin and his forty friends if the forty elected PPP MPs betrayed the electors who voted for them and sold their millions of votes by supporting Abhisit's installation as PM. After that they formed the Bhumjaithai party with Newin as the de facto leader. It is very strange that you now support Newin because you and others on this forum have said in the past that Phue Thai party should be disolved under the electoral law because their de facto leader is a banned politician so why do you not say that Bhumjaithai party should also be disolved because their de facto leader is a notorious Thai Politician and is also banned from carrying out political activities in Thailand. Is it because if that had happened there would have had to have been 40 by-elections called and Abhisit would have had to step down? Do you also think that the Bhumjaithai MPs will be re-elected? If so why do they need so many armed bodyguards to visit their constituencies? As revealed in the censure debates and in the press there have been of huge corruption accusations levelled against Bhumjaithai since they were made part of the Abhisit coalition. The Doctors of Thailand Council even made in direct complaint to Abhisit. What did Abhisit do? Nothing, because nothing matters to him as long as he is still sitting in somebody elses chair. So what he has been doing instead is turning a blind eye to what the coalition partiies have been getting up and leaving the rest to the Courts. And you accuse Thaksin of corruption?

Good post. Spot-on termad.

[jdinasia]

No, he isn't.

He is saying that the people who voted for the friends of Newin

voted for the Friends of Newin and what they could do for them,

and not for PPP. If the Friends of Newin do a better deal with the Dems than PTP,

then their constituents can see them doing their best for them.

PTP doesn't matter, they were not voted for.

Just as the Friends of Newin faction will be voting BJT and not PTP.

PTP doesn't matter to them anymore.

The Friends of Newin faction don't vote for anybody they are just a group of corrupt MPs led by a banned politician who - as I said previously - was described by the BBC as a notorious Thai politician. Abhisit was made PM during meetings in an army barracks with Newin and the Generals - fully reported in the local press and shown on TV including pictures of a smirking Abhisit with his arm around Newin's shoulder. In the meetings in an army barracks it was agreed that large sums of money would be paid to Newin and his forty friends if the forty elected PPP MPs betrayed the electors who voted for them and sold their millions of votes by supporting Abhisit's installation as PM. After that they formed the Bhumjaithai party with Newin as the de facto leader. It is very strange that you now support Newin because you and others on this forum have said in the past that Phue Thai party should be disolved under the electoral law because their de facto leader is a banned politician so why do you not say that Bhumjaithai party should also be disolved because their de facto leader is a notorious Thai Politician and is also banned from carrying out political activities in Thailand. Is it because if that had happened there would have had to have been 40 by-elections called and Abhisit would have had to step down? Do you also think that the Bhumjaithai MPs will be re-elected? If so why do they need so many armed bodyguards to visit their constituencies? As revealed in the censure debates and in the press there have been of huge corruption accusations levelled against Bhumjaithai since they were made part of the Abhisit coalition. The Doctors of Thailand Council even made in direct complaint to Abhisit. What did Abhisit do? Nothing, because nothing matters to him as long as he is still sitting in somebody elses chair. So what he has been doing instead is turning a blind eye to what the coalition partiies have been getting up and leaving the rest to the Courts. And you accuse Thaksin of corruption?

Good post. Spot-on termad.

Termad's complaint about Newin seems to be that he is a banned political figure that is the de facto leader of BJT. Newin always had his MP's (They were HIS MP's when they were PPP, and when PPP dissolved they stayed his under BJT. It is rather hypocritical to complain about Newin under the Dems and not Newin under PPP. Or SaNoh now under PTP .. etc etc etc ...

In the recent by-elections the BJT candidates won in every constituency that they ran against PTP candidates. So obviously they will be re-elected in the Newin stronghold. Why would they need bodyguards? Who knows ... but Thaksin's "war on drugs" comes to mind in a round about way.

Now for the final bit of hypocrisy in complaining about Newin --- Thaksin is a banned politician, convicted of corruption, sentenced to jail .. and the de-facto leader of PTP (and before that the de-facto leader of PPP.) Termad totally misses the point when he talks about BJT being disbanded ---- They party did not (unlike TRT and PPP) violate electoral law. If having a de-facto leader that is banned is enough to disband a party then time to say Bye Bye to PTP!

Newin is what he is --- symptomatic of much that is a problem in Thai politics. That he is a true reflection of Thaksin and many others just shows how rough things are. Even the Dems have some of these regional power families as participants --- Suthep just to mention one.

BTW -- yes I call Thaksin corrupt. Unlike most of the other politicians in Thailand the courts also call Thaksin corrupt. In the end, that's what matters.

[rubl]

The only talk of a coup is coming from the fat man, who thankfully is now in jail, joining in the same successful diet programme as Victor Bout and Nattawut.

The last coup was welcomed by the middle class.

Jatupon claimed on stage last year that the rank and file soldiers, hailing from Issan and the North, would not follow orders to march against the red shirts.

As usual, he was wrong.

Your statement overlooks several critical facts. Specifically;

1. The police had been unable to control the crowds. This may have been due to either an inadequcy and/or an unwillngess to engage the protestors.

2. Until May 14, regular army units had been deployed. There was a reluctance to move against the protestors. Actions consisted mostly of containment and "picking off" protestors when the opportunity arose. The commanders at the time were reported to have expressed a reluctance to take actions that would have caused large scale damage or injuries.

3. The turning point came when the 21st Infantry Regiment of the Royal Armament, aka the Queen's Guard, were deployed. At the same time, the 2nd Infantry Battalion of the 31stInfantry Regiment aka the Royal Guards were deployed. Army regulars were replaced at key contact points with Royal unit personnel.

4. On May 19, the red barricades were breached by a Royal Guards attack, and the end of the protests started, whileBangkok's commercial structures were set on fire.

I offer that until the regular army units and the police were replaced by the Royal units, no significant action was undertaken. The reluctance to act until that time may have been a reflection of the police regular army's reluctance to inflict fatalities and physical damage to Bangkok. Is it a coincidence that the police and army units personnel are drawn from the general population with a heavy weighting from the north and north east?

The term middle class is misused in Thailand. Supposedly the middle class occupies the space between the working class and the upper classes in Thailand. If one applies the conventional western parameters of the middle class; a good education, a professional or senior management position and home ownership, then yes the middle class might very well have been supporters of the military coup. On the other hand if one uses the definition that is typically used in Thailand and is best expressed by the Asian Development Bank, "people living on approximately US$2-20 per day as determining middle class status. For a family of two parents and two children, therefore, that would equate to a family income of around 7,200-72,000 baht per month. That would encompass the great majority of urban, salary-owning Thai citizens.", then the answer would be no, the middle class did not support a coup.

Dear GKid, please stick to the point.

Coup rumours abound, none emerging. The last coup in September 2006 was welcomed by middle class and others. The Army involved in cleaning up protesters included various units between April 10th and May 19th 2010.

The points you raise may or may not be valid, but do not address k. Siriporn's points.

The police being 'unable' to operate professionally suggest no choice but to call in the army. Army units were surprised by unexpected violence in trying to disperse protesters, so call in better units. Those better units breached the barricades and Bangkok started burning? No funny suggestion here, now would there? Lastly the part on 'middle-class' I will not even respond to.

Back to the drawing-board methinks. alternatively go stand in the downpour we're having now here in Bangkok :-)

Who are the people that you describe as middle class? Who are the others that you refer to?

What percentage of the Thai population are the middle class that you refer to? What percentage of the Thai population are the others that you refer to?

Are you suggesting that the votes of any one particular group in the Thai population is more important than the votes and opinions of the rest of the Thai population?

You forgot to ask to tell you the age groups and the division in male/female. Of course having commented on my third sentence, you might have run out of steam. No questions on the remainder. May I dare to hope you agree with that part ?

[termad]

No, he isn't.

He is saying that the people who voted for the friends of Newin

voted for the Friends of Newin and what they could do for them,

and not for PPP. If the Friends of Newin do a better deal with the Dems than PTP,

then their constituents can see them doing their best for them.

PTP doesn't matter, they were not voted for.

Just as the Friends of Newin faction will be voting BJT and not PTP.

PTP doesn't matter to them anymore.

The Friends of Newin faction don't vote for anybody they are just a group of corrupt MPs led by a banned politician who - as I said previously - was described by the BBC as a notorious Thai politician. Abhisit was made PM during meetings in an army barracks with Newin and the Generals - fully reported in the local press and shown on TV including pictures of a smirking Abhisit with his arm around Newin's shoulder. In the meetings in an army barracks it was agreed that large sums of money would be paid to Newin and his forty friends if the forty elected PPP MPs betrayed the electors who voted for them and sold their millions of votes by supporting Abhisit's installation as PM. After that they formed the Bhumjaithai party with Newin as the de facto leader. It is very strange that you now support Newin because you and others on this forum have said in the past that Phue Thai party should be disolved under the electoral law because their de facto leader is a banned politician so why do you not say that Bhumjaithai party should also be disolved because their de facto leader is a notorious Thai Politician and is also banned from carrying out political activities in Thailand. Is it because if that had happened there would have had to have been 40 by-elections called and Abhisit would have had to step down? Do you also think that the Bhumjaithai MPs will be re-elected? If so why do they need so many armed bodyguards to visit their constituencies? As revealed in the censure debates and in the press there have been of huge corruption accusations levelled against Bhumjaithai since they were made part of the Abhisit coalition. The Doctors of Thailand Council even made in direct complaint to Abhisit. What did Abhisit do? Nothing, because nothing matters to him as long as he is still sitting in somebody elses chair. So what he has been doing instead is turning a blind eye to what the coalition partiies have been getting up and leaving the rest to the Courts. And you accuse Thaksin of corruption?

Good post. Spot-on termad.

Termad's complaint about Newin seems to be that he is a banned political figure that is the de facto leader of BJT. Newin always had his MP's (They were HIS MP's when they were PPP, and when PPP dissolved they stayed his under BJT. It is rather hypocritical to complain about Newin under the Dems and not Newin under PPP. Or SaNoh now under PTP .. etc etc etc ...

In the recent by-elections the BJT candidates won in every constituency that they ran against PTP candidates. So obviously they will be re-elected in the Newin stronghold. Why would they need bodyguards? Who knows ... but Thaksin's "war on drugs" comes to mind in a round about way.

Now for the final bit of hypocrisy in complaining about Newin --- Thaksin is a banned politician, convicted of corruption, sentenced to jail .. and the de-facto leader of PTP (and before that the de-facto leader of PPP.) Termad totally misses the point when he talks about BJT being disbanded ---- They party did not (unlike TRT and PPP) violate electoral law. If having a de-facto leader that is banned is enough to disband a party then time to say Bye Bye to PTP!

Newin is what he is --- symptomatic of much that is a problem in Thai politics. That he is a true reflection of Thaksin and many others just shows how rough things are. Even the Dems have some of these regional power families as participants --- Suthep just to mention one.

BTW -- yes I call Thaksin corrupt. Unlike most of the other politicians in Thailand the courts also call Thaksin corrupt. In the end, that's what matters.

So why has Bhumjaithai now announced that they won't field candidates this time in all of the seats held by those 40 gentlemen because they recognise that they cannot win (NBT).

Is not selling millions of votes entrusted to them by electors a violation of Electoral Law? Rubbish. It was the biggest case of vote buying ever seen in Thailand only in this case they waited until after the election to sell votes.

If a PM conspires with a corrupt politician to buy elected MP's votes in order to be installed as PM (which is what the present PM did) then he is as corrupt as the corrupt politician that he conspired with and I'm sure in violation of Electoral Law.

If a PM turns a blind eye to huge corruption being practiced by coalition parties in order to stay on as an installed PM (which this PM has done) then he is as corrupt, by aiding and abetting, as the corrupt Ministers and corrupt MPs in those coalition parties.

So to sum up your/Animatic's reply if a corrupt PM and corrupt ministers/MPs are not charged by a Court they are no longer corrupt. Your view of the law is quite unique.

Edited May 17, 2011 by termad

[whybother]

The Friends of Newin faction don't vote for anybody they are just a group of corrupt MPs led by a banned politician who - as I said previously - was described by the BBC as a notorious Thai politician. Abhisit was made PM during meetings in an army barracks with Newin and the Generals - fully reported in the local press and shown on TV including pictures of a smirking Abhisit with his arm around Newin's shoulder. In the meetings in an army barracks it was agreed that large sums of money would be paid to Newin and his forty friends if the forty elected PPP MPs betrayed the electors who voted for them and sold their millions of votes by supporting Abhisit's installation as PM. After that they formed the Bhumjaithai party with Newin as the de facto leader. It is very strange that you now support Newin because you and others on this forum have said in the past that Phue Thai party should be disolved under the electoral law because their de facto leader is a banned politician so why do you not say that Bhumjaithai party should also be disolved because their de facto leader is a notorious Thai Politician and is also banned from carrying out political activities in Thailand. Is it because if that had happened there would have had to have been 40 by-elections called and Abhisit would have had to step down? Do you also think that the Bhumjaithai MPs will be re-elected? If so why do they need so many armed bodyguards to visit their constituencies? As revealed in the censure debates and in the press there have been of huge corruption accusations levelled against Bhumjaithai since they were made part of the Abhisit coalition. The Doctors of Thailand Council even made in direct complaint to Abhisit. What did Abhisit do? Nothing, because nothing matters to him as long as he is still sitting in somebody elses chair. So what he has been doing instead is turning a blind eye to what the coalition partiies have been getting up and leaving the rest to the Courts. And you accuse Thaksin of corruption?

The voters felt so betrayed that they re-elected a BJT MP in a by-election last year.

[termad]

Dear GKid, please stick to the point.

Coup rumours abound, none emerging. The last coup in September 2006 was welcomed by middle class and others. The Army involved in cleaning up protesters included various units between April 10th and May 19th 2010.

The points you raise may or may not be valid, but do not address k. Siriporn's points.

The police being 'unable' to operate professionally suggest no choice but to call in the army. Army units were surprised by unexpected violence in trying to disperse protesters, so call in better units. Those better units breached the barricades and Bangkok started burning? No funny suggestion here, now would there? Lastly the part on 'middle-class' I will not even respond to.

Back to the drawing-board methinks. alternatively go stand in the downpour we're having now here in Bangkok :-)

Who are the people that you describe as middle class? Who are the others that you refer to?

What percentage of the Thai population are the middle class that you refer to? What percentage of the Thai population are the others that you refer to?

Are you suggesting that the votes of any one particular group in the Thai population is more important than the votes and opinions of the rest of the Thai population?

You forgot to ask to tell you the age groups and the division in male/female. Of course having commented on my third sentence, you might have run out of steam. No questions on the remainder. May I dare to hope you agree with that part ?

I didn't forget to ask you anything I asked you relevant questions in respect of your post. If you cannot answer the questions that I have asked then then your post is not based on any facts but is simply your own opinions and hearsay which is why you have not answered so do you want to withdraw your post?.

Your previous post is I'm afraid laughable. The troops weren't called in by the police they were there from the start on the instructions of Abhisit's CRES. To suggest that the troops were so surprised that the demonstrators refeused to move that they had to call even more heavilly armed troops is a sad joke. What you are suggesting is that the attack launched by Chan ocha's Eastern Tigers can be justified. What is the difference between Chan ocha's brutal attack against civilians and the attacks presently being launched against civilians by Ghadafi and other Middle Eastern rulers - can you explain or do you want to duck that question as well.

P.S. Was Major General Khattiya asassinated because the Milary were taken by surprise at the sight of an unarmed man standing on a pavement talking to a reporter?

Edited May 17, 2011 by termad

[termad]

The Friends of Newin faction don't vote for anybody they are just a group of corrupt MPs led by a banned politician who - as I said previously - was described by the BBC as a notorious Thai politician. Abhisit was made PM during meetings in an army barracks with Newin and the Generals - fully reported in the local press and shown on TV including pictures of a smirking Abhisit with his arm around Newin's shoulder. In the meetings in an army barracks it was agreed that large sums of money would be paid to Newin and his forty friends if the forty elected PPP MPs betrayed the electors who voted for them and sold their millions of votes by supporting Abhisit's installation as PM. After that they formed the Bhumjaithai party with Newin as the de facto leader. It is very strange that you now support Newin because you and others on this forum have said in the past that Phue Thai party should be disolved under the electoral law because their de facto leader is a banned politician so why do you not say that Bhumjaithai party should also be disolved because their de facto leader is a notorious Thai Politician and is also banned from carrying out political activities in Thailand. Is it because if that had happened there would have had to have been 40 by-elections called and Abhisit would have had to step down? Do you also think that the Bhumjaithai MPs will be re-elected? If so why do they need so many armed bodyguards to visit their constituencies? As revealed in the censure debates and in the press there have been of huge corruption accusations levelled against Bhumjaithai since they were made part of the Abhisit coalition. The Doctors of Thailand Council even made in direct complaint to Abhisit. What did Abhisit do? Nothing, because nothing matters to him as long as he is still sitting in somebody elses chair. So what he has been doing instead is turning a blind eye to what the coalition partiies have been getting up and leaving the rest to the Courts. And you accuse Thaksin of corruption?

The voters felt so betrayed that they re-elected a BJT MP in a by-election last year.

Crikey! One voter = was that the one in Nontabri?

[ib1b4]

The Friends of Newin faction don't vote for anybody they are just a group of corrupt MPs led by a banned politician who - as I said previously - was described by the BBC as a notorious Thai politician. Abhisit was made PM during meetings in an army barracks with Newin and the Generals - fully reported in the local press and shown on TV including pictures of a smirking Abhisit with his arm around Newin's shoulder. In the meetings in an army barracks it was agreed that large sums of money would be paid to Newin and his forty friends if the forty elected PPP MPs betrayed the electors who voted for them and sold their millions of votes by supporting Abhisit's installation as PM. After that they formed the Bhumjaithai party with Newin as the de facto leader. It is very strange that you now support Newin because you and others on this forum have said in the past that Phue Thai party should be disolved under the electoral law because their de facto leader is a banned politician so why do you not say that Bhumjaithai party should also be disolved because their de facto leader is a notorious Thai Politician and is also banned from carrying out political activities in Thailand. Is it because if that had happened there would have had to have been 40 by-elections called and Abhisit would have had to step down? Do you also think that the Bhumjaithai MPs will be re-elected? If so why do they need so many armed bodyguards to visit their constituencies? As revealed in the censure debates and in the press there have been of huge corruption accusations levelled against Bhumjaithai since they were made part of the Abhisit coalition. The Doctors of Thailand Council even made in direct complaint to Abhisit. What did Abhisit do? Nothing, because nothing matters to him as long as he is still sitting in somebody elses chair. So what he has been doing instead is turning a blind eye to what the coalition partiies have been getting up and leaving the rest to the Courts. And you accuse Thaksin of corruption?

The voters felt so betrayed that they re-elected a BJT MP in a by-election last year.

And that proves any by-election can be won with strong arm tactics and vote buying!

[whybother]

Crikey! One voter = was that the one in Nontabri?

Khorat.

Next.

[whybother]

And that proves any by-election can be won with strong arm tactics and vote buying!

Is that how he won the seat as a PPP member?

[termad]

And that proves any by-election can be won with strong arm tactics and vote buying!

Is that how he won the seat as a PPP member?

Before he sold it to Abhisit - Yes it was.

[ib1b4]

And that proves any by-election can be won with strong arm tactics and vote buying!

Is that how he won the seat as a PPP member?

You do not have to try and convince me but you maybe missing the point.

[jdinasia]

And that proves any by-election can be won with strong arm tactics and vote buying!

Is that how he won the seat as a PPP member?

Strong-arm tactics and vote buying? LOL ......

The former PPP guys that won under the BJT flag won simply because they were in Newin strongholds ... no strong-arm tactics were needed. In fact I think no yellow or red cards were handed out ....

What happened in the by-elections showed simply that not much has changed in Thai politics (people vote the way they are told regionally) ... it should have shown to some that it was never TRT/PPP that people were voting for -- but that seems to have gone over some heads.

[ib1b4]

And that proves any by-election can be won with strong arm tactics and vote buying!

Is that how he won the seat as a PPP member?

Strong-arm tactics and vote buying? LOL ......

The former PPP guys that won under the BJT flag won simply because they were in Newin strongholds ... no strong-arm tactics were needed. In fact I think no yellow or red cards were handed out ....

What happened in the by-elections showed simply that not much has changed in Thai politics (people vote the way they are told regionally) ... it should have shown to some that it was never TRT/PPP that people were voting for -- but that seems to have gone over some heads.

OK you may have to go back a few posts to understand what was said, read termads post

[rubl]

I didn't forget to ask you anything I asked you relevant questions in respect of your post. If you cannot answer the questions that I have asked then then your post is not based on any facts but is simply your own opinions and hearsay which is why you have not answered so do you want to withdraw your post?.

... rest removed

The old adage is true, a fool can ask more questions than ten wise men can answer. This time let me add explicitly IMHO

[Siripon]

[the final bit of hypocrisy in complaining about Newin --- Thaksin is a banned politician, convicted of corruption, sentenced to jail .. and the de-facto Is up your/Animatic's reply if a corrupt PM and corrupt ministers/MPs are not charged by a Court they are no longer corrupt. Your view of the law is quite unique.

The biggest case of vote buying in recent history was Thaksin's wholesale buy of Chavalit's NAP, almost 80 MPs.

Prior to that, he had claimed he was a new type of politician, but after he realized it was much easier to buy existing MPs than support and nurture a new breed of decent MPs, he went on a spending spree, aware that with the number of MPs under his thumb, he would be untouchable in Parliament.

Or so he thought.