A Year After Clashes, Thais Split As Polls Loom

[webfact]

A year after clashes, Thais split as polls loom

by Apilaporn Vechakij

BANGKOK, May 17, 2011 (AFP) - When Kamonkate Akkahad volunteered to help the victims of Thailand's bloody street clashes a year ago, the Bangkok temple where she set to work was declared a safe zone by both sides.

Yet it turned out not to be so safe after all. On May 19, the day of the army's crackdown to disperse the opposition "Red Shirts", the 25-year-old was shot dead while giving medical help to an injured protester.

"I saw the pictures on TV. That's how I saw that my daughter was shot, lying there, one of six bodies," her mother Phayaw Akkahad told AFP.

Phayaw still has no answers about the death of her daughter, now known as "Nurse Kate" -- and neither do the families of the other victims of the violence.

More than 90 people, mostly civilians, were killed and nearly 1,900 were injured during the two months of rallies, which drew 100,000 red-clad demonstrators at their peak, calling for immediate elections.

On the day of the army's final assault, Bangkok was brought to its knees: dozens of buildings -- including a major shopping mall -- were torched, and images of the prosperous capital ablaze shocked viewers around the world.

A year later, as Thailand gears up for national polls on July 3, the country of 65 million people remains deeply divided by the bloodshed.

"It is clear that both sides still have very raw feelings about what happened last year... The campaign period is going to exacerbate this problem," said Brad Adams, Asia director of Human Rights Watch (HRW), earlier this month.

He was launching a HRW report on the violence, titled Descent into Chaos, which accused Thai soldiers of "cold-blooded acts of murder".

It said troops fired "repeatedly and indiscriminately" into the Pathum Wanaram temple -- the supposedly safe zone where Kate and others were killed -- from a vantage point on the tracks of Bangkok's Skytrain network.

The HRW report slammed government efforts to establish the circumstances of the deaths, with a Truth and Reconciliation Commission set up to analyse what happened not expected to report for at least another six months.

"The government has arrested a lot of Red Shirts. They've arrested hundreds, including the leadership. They've charged them with very serious crimes. And some of the Red Shirts should be charged," Adams told AFP.

"But they've arrested no one on the government side, charged no one on the government side."

The Reds, mostly supporters of fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra, say Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva is an unelected puppet of the elite after he came to power in 2008 through a parliamentary vote and with army support.

With the election they wanted finally approaching in a matter of weeks, the largely rural and working-class Reds could finally see the government they detest out of office.

But the battle will be a tough one, and potentially ugly.

The main contenders are Abhisit's Democrat Party and allies of Reds' hero Thaksin, who was ousted in 2006 and lives abroad to avoid a jail term for graft, but is seen as the de facto leader of the opposition Puea Thai party.

On Monday, Thaksin's sister Yingluck Shinawatra was named as the Puea Thai candidate for the top government job, a political novice who is viewed as her big brother's proxy.

"A difference of just four to five seats will dictate the direction in which our country moves forward," Abhisit told his party at the weekend.

Pracha Prasopdee, a Puea Thai lawmaker who is close to Thaksin, was shot last week in an attack the government said appeared to be politically motivated, raising fears for the safety of candidates and of renewed unrest.

"I think this is the beginning of the return of political violence because there are a lot of stakes involved and these stakes are not compromised between the two groups," said Pavin Chachavalpongpun, a Thai political analyst.

Red Shirt leader and Puea Thai lawmaker Jatuporn Prompan -- seen as a key bridge between the opposition street movement and the political party -- was jailed on terrorism charges last week.

Other senior Reds said the ruling would not affect their plans for a rally in Bangkok on Thursday to mark the anniversary -- the latest in a string of gatherings in the capital that show they are far from a spent force.

However the Thai political landscape changes in the coming weeks, families of the victims in Thailand's bitter strife will keep up their campaign for justice.

"I, as Kate's mother, will fight every way I can," said Phayaw. "I will not let anyone stop this case. It must be prosecuted under the law."

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-05-17

[JurgenG]

"Yet it turned out not to be so safe after all. On May 19, the day of the army's crackdown to disperse the opposition "Red Shirts", the 25-year-old was shot dead while giving medical help to an injured protester."

We shall not forget

[krishnak]

i want to see what all the people who like to defend the CBK abhist hast to say about this!!!this is the blood of inocent thai people who has been murdered by the army under abhisit orders!!!who is gonne bring abhisit to justice, who is gonne bring justice to the familly of the dead???but this has been posted since 8:22 and no one of the dinosaur of this forum has emited one single word, and then they go and write that they are worried by the future of this country,blablablabla thats why we need a revolution,it seems that the most of the people here don't understant that thailand right now is like a pressure pot, that its accumulating pressure till the day in which it will explote i hope that that day never arrive!!!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ Agreed.

People seem very selective in what they want to hear.

Credit to the forum admin for posting the article though.

[virtualtraveller]

This article from AFP is poorly written.

First, and for the Nth time, a temple ground in the middle of a beseiged centre of a city where both sides are armed IS NOT a safe sanctuary. With 3 foot walls, the temple offers no protection from bullets whizzing around from both sides sometimes fired from hundreds of yards away. In the chaos there is goiing to be collateral damage. You can blame the army, but under the circumstances I'm not sure that they were deliberately targeting civilians. Furthermore, to protect the rights of the public in general they had an obligation to clear the area of protesters who, as it turns out, had armed men among their numbers and had barricaded themselves in. Everyone had been given ample chance to leave the area. The failure to fully investigate (which would implicate both sides significantly) is a blot on the administration's record (not unexpectedly in Thailand where almost everyone of all shirt colour shirks responsibility and blame). I don'think HRW's report reveals the full story without referring to UDD's role in setting up the clash.

Abhisit did not come to power with army support, this is a widely held belief as accused by the reds (the wording they have used is ambiguous to state it as fact), sure we all suspect they (and many others) were persuading in the background but ultimately it was an above board parliamentary vote with Newin being the person lending the key support.

Jatuporn was not jailed last week for terrorism. His bail was revoked for violating his conditions. All others charged are out of jail.

As always, in the present climate you can paint this government as a draconian junta but much of the actions relate to a real threat to overthrow the govt from the streets, without a real justification since it was formed according to the same law that put the PPP in power.

[jonclark]

i want to see what all the people who like to defend the CBK abhist hast to say about this!!!this is the blood of inocent thai people who has been murdered by the army under abhisit orders!!!who is gonne bring abhisit to justice, who is gonne bring justice to the familly of the dead???but this has been posted since 8:22 and no one of the dinosaur of this forum has emited one single word, and then they go and write that they are worried by the future of this country,blablablabla thats why we need a revolution,it seems that the most of the people here don't understant that thailand right now is like a pressure pot, that its accumulating pressure till the day in which it will explote i hope that that day never arrive!!!

You talk about justice as if was the right of every Thai person to receive it. Justice in Thailand has rarely been a right - Think of the number of people murdered by the police - who acted as judge, jury and executer, during the war on drugs (initiated by the Red Shirts main backer). This lack of justice is not something new to Thailand. Does that make it right - No, but make no mistake no matter which political party gets into power - justice will rarely be served to those that seek it. Indeed should PTP form a government seek to bring justice to the reds, one side would claim justice has been served, whilst the other would cry "revenge". Is revenge justice?

Do you think farangs and immigrant workers in Thailand receive justice in Thailand when they are systematically wronged ?. Very, Very Rarely - If we complain is our voice heard? Or are we told to go home if we don't like it? - I hope when you speak of justice (or lack of) with such broad strokes you understand that in order for justice to be just it must be applied equally to all sections of society irresepctive of race, religion, colour of skin, or size of bank balance. Only then will Thai justice be a right of EVERY person on Thailand.

What happened during the RED rally is mearely a symptom of the cancer spreading through Thailand (which i've witnessed for the last 15 years) .

Edited May 17, 2011 by jonclark

[manarak]

thats why we need a revolution,it seems that the most of the people here don't understant that thailand right now is like a pressure pot, that its accumulating pressure till the day in which it will explote i hope that that day never arrive!!!

A revolution is an explosive release of the pressure!

What is needed is a progressive change.

But the country's stability is running against the clock.

I believe there is a good plan to catch the situation (or the people running the country would be totally careless), but can only hope the plan will work.

Edited May 17, 2011 by manarak

[manarak]

make no mistake no matter which political party gets into power - justice will rarely be served to those that seek it.

Apparent or felt justice just make people feel good.

Of course justice is important in a well-run country as well as a stabilizing factor, but right now I feel Justice is priority 2 behind the stability of the country.

[seaeagle]

You'll never get a revolution in this country while the vast majority have mai pen rai and subserviant attitudes drummed into them from the day they're born.

[Siripon]

i want to see what all the people who like to defend the CBK abhist hast to say about this!!!this is the blood of inocent thai people who has been murdered by the army under abhisit orders!!!who is gonne bring abhisit to justice, who is gonne bring justice to the familly of the dead???but this has been posted since 8:22 and no one of the dinosaur of this forum has emited one single word, and then they go and write that they are worried by the future of this country,blablablabla thats why we need a revolution,it seems that the most of the people here don't understant that thailand right now is like a pressure pot, that its accumulating pressure till the day in which it will explote i hope that that day never arrive!!!

Hopefully Thaksin and the red shirt leaders will be brought to justice soon for seizing central Bangkok and attacking the citizens with rocket launchers etc.

They have the blood of naive and innocent people on their hands.

[Siripon]

i want to see what all the people who like to defend the CBK abhist hast to say about this!!!this is the blood of inocent thai people who has been murdered by the army under abhisit orders!!!who is gonne bring abhisit to justice, who is gonne bring justice to the familly of the dead???but this has been posted since 8:22 and no one of the dinosaur of this forum has emited one single word, and then they go and write that they are worried by the future of this country,blablablabla thats why we need a revolution,it seems that the most of the people here don't understant that thailand right now is like a pressure pot, that its accumulating pressure till the day in which it will explote i hope that that day never arrive!!!

Hopefully Thaksin and the red leaders will be brought to justice soon for seizing central Bangkok, shooting innocent civilians with rocket launchers and inciting the red shirts to set fire to Bangkok.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Siripon

[rubl]

i want to see what all the people who like to defend the CBK abhist hast to say about this!!!this is the blood of inocent thai people who has been murdered by the army under abhisit orders!!!who is gonne bring abhisit to justice, who is gonne bring justice to the familly of the dead???but this has been posted since 8:22 and no one of the dinosaur of this forum has emited one single word, and then they go and write that they are worried by the future of this country,blablablabla thats why we need a revolution,it seems that the most of the people here don't understant that thailand right now is like a pressure pot, that its accumulating pressure till the day in which it will explote i hope that that day never arrive!!!

Wonder who you label as dinosaurs of this forum, also why. No reaction since early this morning might mean other things to do on Vishaka Bucha.

Anyway, read the HRW report first before getting into 'murdered on PM Abhisit's order'. Did you listen to PTV last year with the UDD leaders at full blast sound level spreading hatred against the government and that already begin of the year when they still tried to influence the court deciding on k. Thaksin's billions. Thailand may be a pressure pot, but the UDD needs to take a larger part of the blame for cooking

Edited May 17, 2011 by rubl

[animatic]

This article from AFP is poorly written.

First, and for the Nth time, a temple ground in the middle of a beseiged centre of a city where both sides are armed IS NOT a safe sanctuary. With 3 foot walls, the temple offers no protection from bullets whizzing around from both sides sometimes fired from hundreds of yards away. In the chaos there is goiing to be collateral damage. You can blame the army, but under the circumstances I'm not sure that they were deliberately targeting civilians. Furthermore, to protect the rights of the public in general they had an obligation to clear the area of protesters who, as it turns out, had armed men among their numbers and had barricaded themselves in. Everyone had been given ample chance to leave the area. The failure to fully investigate (which would implicate both sides significantly) is a blot on the administration's record (not unexpectedly in Thailand where almost everyone of all shirt colour shirks responsibility and blame). I don'think HRW's report reveals the full story without referring to UDD's role in setting up the clash.

Abhisit did not come to power with army support, this is a widely held belief as accused by the reds (the wording they have used is ambiguous to state it as fact), sure we all suspect they (and many others) were persuading in the background but ultimately it was an above board parliamentary vote with Newin being the person lending the key support.

Jatuporn was not jailed last week for terrorism. His bail was revoked for violating his conditions. All others charged are out of jail.

As always, in the present climate you can paint this government as a draconian junta but much of the actions relate to a real threat to overthrow the govt from the streets, without a real justification since it was formed according to the same law that put the PPP in power.

Well said.

[animatic]

Dinosaurs of TVF +

Anyone with more than 100 posts that isn't pro Yingluk

Edited May 17, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

thats why we need a revolution,it seems that the most of the people here don't understant that thailand right now is like a pressure pot, that its accumulating pressure till the day in which it will explote i hope that that day never arrive!!!

A revolution is an explosive release of the pressure!

What is needed is a progressive change.

But the country's stability is running against the clock.

I believe there is a good plan to catch the situation (or the people running the country would be totally careless), but can only hope the plan will work.

Gradual, even if accelerated, change harms fewer people.

Revolutions harm the poor the most for the longest.

I have been arguing this point for sometime. The loss of coherent government and the infighting for positions after one government is violently torn down always leaves a long term wasteland of control within which thousands are injured. The country runs out of control till a new elite finally takes control. When a country is out of control the POOR suffer first, most and longest. Thailand doesn't need a violent revolution, or a simple change of vindictive elites, but a smooth transition to a better working system for all.

[animatic]

Do you think farangs and immigrant workers in Thailand receive justice in Thailand when they are systematically wronged ?. Very, Very Rarely - If we complain is our voice heard? Or are we told to go home if we don't like it? - I hope when you speak of justice (or lack of) with such broad strokes you understand that in order for justice to be just it must be applied equally to all sections of society irresepctive of race, religion, colour of skin, or size of bank balance. Only then will Thai justice be a right of EVERY person on Thailand.

No, farangs get threatened with ambiguous future harm for speaking out.

Real justice there, no double standards there either. <( sarcasm meter on full)

Edited May 17, 2011 by animatic

[LeCharivari]

This article from AFP is poorly written.

Poorly written maybe, but still correct:

"First, and for the Nth time, a temple ground in the middle of a beseiged centre of a city where both sides are armed IS NOT a safe sanctuary."

No, but that should not stop it being off-limits to deliberate targeting if that is what both sides agree

"Abhisit did not come to power with army support"

Sorry, but he did - "with" army support, but not directly because of it.

Jatuporn was not jailed last week for terrorism. His bail was revoked for violating his conditions. All others charged are out of jail.

No, Jatuporn and Nisit's bail was revoked following allegations of (inevitably) lese majeste.

[LeCharivari]

......... shooting innocent civilians with rocket launchers ..........

Maybe you could give some details of when this took place .......

[LeCharivari]

Gradual, even if accelerated, change harms fewer people.

Revolutions harm the poor the most for the longest.

I have been arguing this point for sometime. The loss of coherent government and the infighting for positions after one government is violently torn down always leaves a long term wasteland of control within which thousands are injured. The country runs out of control till a new elite finally takes control. When a country is out of control the POOR suffer first, most and longest. Thailand doesn't need a violent revolution, or a simple change of vindictive elites, but a smooth transition to a better working system for all.

Agreed, however those currently in a position to start that smooth transition are doing everything in their power to stop it from happening.

[Helloo]

I think it's time for people to separate this issue from Thaksin. You might hate Thaksin but it doesn't mean that everything that Red Shirts do are wrong... many of them died, don't just think that it's good because they are Thaksin's slaves but you have to understand that by having different political opinions mean that their lives don't matter. Red Shirts might not always be right but they are not always wrong, you have to understand that soldiers shot innocent people (not all Red Shirts' actions have their involvement for sure). It's basic human rights, I hope you understand that they don't deserve to get shot and soldiers who shot them must be brought to justice since not all the Red Shirts burned the tires, burned the city, shot the soldiers etc. Whatever you accuse them of doing, many red shirts did not involve in that, they were just sitting and listening to their leaders on stage.. surely they don't deserve to be killed right?

[rubl]

I think it's time for people to separate this issue from Thaksin. You might hate Thaksin but it doesn't mean that everything that Red Shirts do are wrong... many of them died, don't just think that it's good because they are Thaksin's slaves but you have to understand that by having different political opinions mean that their lives don't matter. Red Shirts might not always be right but they are not always wrong, you have to understand that soldiers shot innocent people (not all Red Shirts' actions have their involvement for sure). It's basic human rights, I hope you understand that they don't deserve to get shot and soldiers who shot them must be brought to justice since not all the Red Shirts burned the tires, burned the city, shot the soldiers etc. Whatever you accuse them of doing, many red shirts did not involve in that, they were just sitting and listening to their leaders on stage.. surely they don't deserve to be killed right?

With UDD leaders just moving unto PTP party list because they asked, with k. Thaksin saying 'Thaksin thinks, PTP acts, it's not easy to separate UDD and PTP and Thaksin. Another problem of course is the use of red-shirts and UDD as synonymsm that makes separation real difficult.

The original red-shirts had and have valid grievances, but their cause was hyjacked by UDD, PTP, Thaksin. Cannon fodder, sacrificed to help one group of elite to overcome another group of elite. Really cynical with k. Jatuporn wearing his Mahatmir Ghandi T-shirt.

You have to understand that with armed elements mingling amongst really peaceful protesters, innocents will suffer. Indeed many red-shirt didn't do any harm, but some of that large group of red-shirts from various factions did do that harm, burned tyres, torched buildings, believed their UDD leaders would stay with them.

[phiphidon]

^ Agreed.

People seem very selective in what they want to hear.

Credit to the forum admin for posting the article though.

Maybe they will post this one too

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2011/05/18/national/The-unintended-fallout-of-May-crackdown-30155586.html

Don't know quite what's come over The Nation.........

[rubl]

......... shooting innocent civilians with rocket launchers ..........

Maybe you could give some details of when this took place .......

April 22nd, 2010. Grenade attack on non-red-shirts killing a totally innocent Thai lady and wounding about 80 others at BTS SalaDaeng Station.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/bangkok-grenade-attacks-grow-deadly/story-e6frg6so-1225857615586

Edited May 17, 2011 by rubl

[hyperdimension]

^ Agreed.

People seem very selective in what they want to hear.

Credit to the forum admin for posting the article though.

Maybe they will post this one too

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2011/05/18/national/The-unintended-fallout-of-May-crackdown-30155586.html

They did: The Unintended Fallout Of May Crackdown; Thai Opinion

Don't know quite what's come over The Nation.........

It's the ignorant people who accuse The Nation of being biased in favor of the current government and military.

Edited May 18, 2011 by hyperdimension

[LeCharivari]

......... shooting innocent civilians with rocket launchers ..........

Maybe you could give some details of when this took place .......

April 22nd, 2010. Grenade attack on non-red-shirts killing a totally innocent Thai lady and wounding about 80 others at BTS SalaDaeng Station.

http://www.theaustra...o-1225857615586

Thanks, rubl, but that incident involved grenades fired from M79s, not "rocket launchers" and as your link makes clear the Thai military could not say who fired them or from where.

While there were casualties on all sides, regrettably, this particular claim is pure fabrication.

[rubl]

......... shooting innocent civilians with rocket launchers ..........

Maybe you could give some details of when this took place .......

April 22nd, 2010. Grenade attack on non-red-shirts killing a totally innocent Thai lady and wounding about 80 others at BTS SalaDaeng Station.

http://www.theaustra...o-1225857615586

Thanks, rubl, but that incident involved grenades fired from M79s, not "rocket launchers" and as your link makes clear the Thai military could not say who fired them or from where.

While there were casualties on all sides, regrettably, this particular claim is pure fabrication.

I'm willing to assume / accept that the difference between 'rocket launchers' and 'grenade launchers' is not that clear to all of our members.

As for details on April 22nd attack, the link I provided was from two days later. More details in the HRW report:

"According to media reports, when the pro-government protesters began clashing again with

the UDD on the evening of April 22, UDD leader Arisman Pongruengrong told the protesters

at the Ratchaprasong camp that a group of “men wearing black” were coming to the

assistance of the Red Shirt camp.105 At about 8 p.m. that night, three M79-launched

grenades were fired towards the Saladaeng junction and Silom Road where pro-government

protesters were gathered. Several fell through the roof of the Saladaeng BTS elevated train

station, scattering shrapnel and parts of the steel roof on crowds gathered below. News

footage and videos taken by participants of the pro-government demonstration at the time of

the grenade attack shows a peaceful crowd waving Thai flags and listening to music

underneath the BTS station.106

While the first three grenades caused limited injuries, two more 40mm grenades fired from

M79 launchers shortly afterwards landed in the crowd of pro-government protesters.107

Tanyanan Taebthong, 26, died, and at least 78 persons were wounded, including several

foreign nationals.108"

HRW report "Descent into Chaos", page 66 (Copyright © 2011 HRW)

Edited May 18, 2011 by rubl

[phiphidon]

^ Agreed.

People seem very selective in what they want to hear.

Credit to the forum admin for posting the article though.

Maybe they will post this one too

http://www.nationmul...n-30155586.html

They did: The Unintended Fallout Of May Crackdown; Thai Opinion

Don't know quite what's come over The Nation.........

It's the ignorant people who accuse The Nation of being biased in favor of the current government and military.

Well thank you for that comment, and I hardly know you. Its the bereft of debating skills that resort to insults.

[hyperdimension]

Don't know quite what's come over The Nation.........

It's the ignorant people who accuse The Nation of being biased in favor of the current government and military.

Well thank you for that comment, and I hardly know you. Its the bereft of debating skills that resort to insults.

You are wrongly assuming that my statement about "ignorant people" had included you.

[phiphidon]

Don't know quite what's come over The Nation.........

It's the ignorant people who accuse The Nation of being biased in favor of the current government and military.

Well thank you for that comment, and I hardly know you. Its the bereft of debating skills that resort to insults.

You are wrongly assuming that my statement about "ignorant people" had included you.

In that case I apologise, it's just that when I read a statement like that in a reply to my post I assumed it was just that, a reply to my post and all that infers.

[OZEMADE]

I doubt there will be any drama at the next election, so I dont know why this crap has been bought up again. Look to the future not the past and something MAY work out.