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American With Job Offer That I Think Pay Is Low


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Maybe not for me to decide what they do with their money but I am certainly entitled to let them know my impressions. Cheap Charlie is no problem for me in fact makes me proud to SAVE money and pay less then you and others did for the same item just because I was thorough about shopping it and not buying the first one off the shelf just to show I can, don't have an ego that big in spite of those who don't know me thinking I do.. It's a lot more to be proud of then pretentiously flaunting my income like a peacock in heat..

JFYI I'm no cheap Charlie I just don't waste money on frivolous, materialistic items that serve no other purpose except to make me look ostentatiousness, I tip generously for services most probably don't tip for at all (especially those with money who I've known over my life to be the cheapest Charlie's of all) and anytime I get more service then was expected it is also monetarily and verbally acknowledged as are all other things that REALLY matter..

My impression stands and it's <deleted> to say 150 to 200k per month is required to live comfortably especially with children the age of his as I live comfortably with 2 children of similar age for a third of that per month and that was the OP's question, not what it takes for you or others to live comfortably high up on your pedestal...

It always makes me chuckle when someone tries to turn having a great job, making a good income, & living a very nice lifestyle a nasty thing. Jealousy rearing its ugly head?

In general, most people seem to live a certain lifestyle because they have to. If you make one third of the 150-200k/month being discussed, you live comfortably off of that.....because you have to. The people who say they live well off of 30k/month probably do just that....because they have to. And a person making 200k/month lives within their means.....because they have to. It's all about perspective. I bet a person making 200k/month would love to make 300k/month, and a person making 300k/month would love to make 400k. Anyone who says they wouldn't gladly accept a higher income is most likely lying to himself/herself, or to others.

It makes me chuckle too but since that's NOT what's happening and NOT related to the OP it won't be discussed further so you can shut off your defensive whoa's me approach..

What it's actually about is making or being able to make sacrifices and adjustments when the need arises to accomplish one's goals..

Edited by WarpSpeed
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Maybe not for me to decide what they do with their money but I am certainly entitled to let them know my impressions. Cheap Charlie is no problem for me in fact makes me proud to SAVE money and pay less then you and others did for the same item just because I was thorough about shopping it and not buying the first one off the shelf just to show I can, don't have an ego that big in spite of those who don't know me thinking I do.. It's a lot more to be proud of then pretentiously flaunting my income like a peacock in heat..

JFYI I'm no cheap Charlie I just don't waste money on frivolous, materialistic items that serve no other purpose except to make me look ostentatiousness, I tip generously for services most probably don't tip for at all (especially those with money who I've known over my life to be the cheapest Charlie's of all) and anytime I get more service then was expected it is also monetarily and verbally acknowledged as are all other things that REALLY matter..

My impression stands and it's <deleted> to say 150 to 200k per month is required to live comfortably especially with children the age of his as I live comfortably with 2 children of similar age for a third of that per month and that was the OP's question, not what it takes for you or others to live comfortably high up on your pedestal...

My fixed costs with a kid in international school is 75k a month before I even have a beer or a bowl of rice, and I don't have rent to pay.

Your kid is how old?? And is that absolutely the only school they can attend?? I checked out a very nice school QSI International when I was in Phuket and it was no where near that cost for young children.. Specious argument without all the facts..

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It makes me chuckle too but since that's NOT what's happening and NOT related to the OP it won't be discussed further so you can shut off your defensive whoa's me approach..

YOU are calling ME defensive? Hilarious. :D

And actually it IS related to the OP (as much as your rants about people who are egotistical, frivolous, materialistic, & ostentatious just because they happen to make more money than you). I didn't know I would need to spell it out for you, but I can.....

Since people with a wide range of salaries do manage to live comfortably, the OP probably can too. Because he will have to, if he chooses to accept the job. Would it be his ideal lifestyle, if he were truly being honest with himself? Probably not. Would life be easier for him if he made more money? Yes, probably.

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It makes me chuckle too but since that's NOT what's happening and NOT related to the OP it won't be discussed further so you can shut off your defensive whoa's me approach..

YOU are calling ME defensive? Hilarious. :D

Absolutely, I have nothing to be defensive about and haven't defended myself once in this thread but you and others have been quite the opposite.. And again I reiterate this is not the topic, nor am I.. To refresh, the topic is about how much the OP realistically needs to live on and not who's being defensive or living above their means..

Edited by WarpSpeed
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Absolutely, I have nothing to be defensive about and haven't defended myself once in this thread but you and others have been quite the opposite.. And again I reiterate this is not the topic, nor am I.. To refresh, the topic is about how much the OP realistically needs to live on and not who's being defensive or living above their means..

You are clearly the type of person who can dish it but not take it. You have no problem spouting off about how wonderful your lifestyle and financial choices are, and how people are "snobs" if they make more money and choose to spend it. Yet when people have views other than your own, suddenly you pull the "it's off-topic" card. My first comment about how people live within their means because they have to was certainly related to the original question, because it directly related to the OP's upcoming decision. Discussing the price of the QSI school in Phuket, simply to object with a poster who stated the facts about how much money he spends on education each month - is that any more on-topic than my comments??

But if you insist on sticking to the OP and not allowing anyone to go off on tangents like you have, then fine. To the OP I would say that yes, you can live off of that salary, but think long and hard about if you would really want to. It would be a shame to see you turn into one of those bitter, angry expats who can't stand the thought of other people being more well-off then they are.

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You are being a bit harsh.....someone just as easily suggest you are a cheap charlie...:rolleyes:

FYI...having lived in Thailand for 10 years and seeing the price increases and of the opinion that to live a "normal" life Thailand is not cheap anymore.....I am in agreement with the THB 150k to 200k/month

I agree with Soutpeel. The OP is considering a move to Thailand to earn money. Why shouldn't he want a premium?

Premiums over a US wage are a lot easier to get if the company that you'd be working for in Thailand wants you more than you want them, or if you're working for a MNC who has a well established expat compensation policy and has decided to transfer you to Thailand. Not everyone is lucky enough to be in a situation like that. And once a company senses that you want to be in Thailand for reasons that are unrelated to salary, your bargaining power goes way down.

I was already in Thailand when I was hired on an expat package, and I am on almost double what I would get in either Europe or the US in the same position (If you factor in the advantagous tax structure you can set up here)....so where do you think my bargaining power was ?....:lol:

That's always a theme in these threads - people popping up emphasizing that they make more money than God and that everyone else should be too. Maybe your bargaining power came from a reputation that you had built up in the industry, an established track record working offshore, or a high need for Westerners with your particular expertise in Thailand. Hate to tell you this, but not everyone can write their own ticket.

Edited by OriginalPoster
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Live on Kho Samui!!! :cheesy::clap2: Who is it that put their foot in their mouth??? :cheesy: You don't do irony do you? :lol:

yes i have been on the island for 11 yrs and i still have not gone native ,which from what i gather you expect us all to do, i assume you live somewhere in the n.e. have a great life style being one of the locals, thats great if that is what you want but I dont, I like what samui has to offer if you dont then maybe it is because you are a gone native snob.

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Absolutely, I have nothing to be defensive about and haven't defended myself once in this thread but you and others have been quite the opposite.. And again I reiterate this is not the topic, nor am I.. To refresh, the topic is about how much the OP realistically needs to live on and not who's being defensive or living above their means..

You are clearly the type of person who can dish it but not take it. You have no problem spouting off about how wonderful your lifestyle and financial choices are, and how people are "snobs" if they make more money and choose to spend it. Yet when people have views other than your own, suddenly you pull the "it's off-topic" card. My first comment about how people live within their means because they have to was certainly related to the original question, because it directly related to the OP's upcoming decision. Discussing the price of the QSI school in Phuket, simply to object with a poster who stated the facts about how much money he spends on education each month - is that any more on-topic than my comments??

But if you insist on sticking to the OP and not allowing anyone to go off on tangents like you have, then fine. To the OP I would say that yes, you can live off of that salary, but think long and hard about if you would really want to. It would be a shame to see you turn into one of those bitter, angry expats who can't stand the thought of other people being more well-off then they are.

All I can say for myself I will never be bitter because someone makes more than me but at the same time I don't want to be at the bottom end of the stick.

I would like the same style of living I have right now, in Thailand if I decide to take the offer. I make the same amount at my current job right now with full benefits, So this company not giving anything extraordinary except going to work in Thailand.

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Absolutely, I have nothing to be defensive about and haven't defended myself once in this thread but you and others have been quite the opposite.. And again I reiterate this is not the topic, nor am I.. To refresh, the topic is about how much the OP realistically needs to live on and not who's being defensive or living above their means..

You are clearly the type of person who can dish it but not take it. You have no problem spouting off about how wonderful your lifestyle and financial choices are, and how people are "snobs" if they make more money and choose to spend it. Yet when people have views other than your own, suddenly you pull the "it's off-topic" card. My first comment about how people live within their means because they have to was certainly related to the original question, because it directly related to the OP's upcoming decision. Discussing the price of the QSI school in Phuket, simply to object with a poster who stated the facts about how much money he spends on education each month - is that any more on-topic than my comments??

But if you insist on sticking to the OP and not allowing anyone to go off on tangents like you have, then fine. To the OP I would say that yes, you can live off of that salary, but think long and hard about if you would really want to. It would be a shame to see you turn into one of those bitter, angry expats who can't stand the thought of other people being more well-off then they are.

All I can say for myself I will never be bitter because someone makes more than me but at the same time I don't want to be at the bottom end of the stick.

I would like the same style of living I have right now, in Thailand if I decide to take the offer. I make the same amount at my current job right now with full benefits, So this company not giving anything extraordinary except going to work in Thailand.

If that is the threshold you hold yourself too (a reasonable one I might add), then to be honest, unless they were giving you education and health insurance (good one, not crappy)then you aren't going to get the same standards. On your salary + housing benefit you are going to be cutting it awfully fine.....and very likely going backwards...

Don't let HR give you the 'Thailand is cheaper line' to justify their package.

Edited by samran
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Absolutely, I have nothing to be defensive about and haven't defended myself once in this thread but you and others have been quite the opposite.. And again I reiterate this is not the topic, nor am I.. To refresh, the topic is about how much the OP realistically needs to live on and not who's being defensive or living above their means..

You are clearly the type of person who can dish it but not take it. You have no problem spouting off about how wonderful your lifestyle and financial choices are, and how people are "snobs" if they make more money and choose to spend it. Yet when people have views other than your own, suddenly you pull the "it's off-topic" card. My first comment about how people live within their means because they have to was certainly related to the original question, because it directly related to the OP's upcoming decision. Discussing the price of the QSI school in Phuket, simply to object with a poster who stated the facts about how much money he spends on education each month - is that any more on-topic than my comments??

But if you insist on sticking to the OP and not allowing anyone to go off on tangents like you have, then fine. To the OP I would say that yes, you can live off of that salary, but think long and hard about if you would really want to. It would be a shame to see you turn into one of those bitter, angry expats who can't stand the thought of other people being more well-off then they are.

All I can say for myself I will never be bitter because someone makes more than me but at the same time I don't want to be at the bottom end of the stick.

I would like the same style of living I have right now, in Thailand if I decide to take the offer. I make the same amount at my current job right now with full benefits, So this company not giving anything extraordinary except going to work in Thailand.

If that is the threshold you hold yourself too (a reasonable one I might add), then to be honest, unless they were giving you education and health insurance (good one, not crappy)then you aren't going to get the same standards. On your salary + housing benefit you are going to be cutting it awfully fine.....and very likely going backwards...

Don't let HR give you the 'Thailand is cheaper line' to justify their package.

They offer good health insurance and I get tuition reimbursement for furthering my education. This job is with a big US Defense Contractor I just feel the offer is really low compared to other offers I've been getting. I'm currently trying to negotiate a higher salary or school tuition for my kids 3 and 5. They are playing hard ball saying there is not much more they can offer and at max of $50K with my salary which I don't believe. I'm about 40% already through their hiring process, so I'll just stop everything until we get a better deal on the table.

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That's always a theme in these threads - people popping up emphasizing that they make more money than God and that everyone else should be too. Maybe your bargaining power came from a reputation that you had built up in the industry, an established track record working offshore, or a high need for Westerners with your particular expertise in Thailand. Hate to tell you this, but not everyone can write their own ticket.

Pretty sure God has a higher take home pay than me, and guess he gets better tax breaks as well.... I mean walking on water must warrant some tax deduction and there must be depreciation applicable on lightening bolts . .....:whistling:

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It is important where.Bangkok is much much deare than ChiangMai. Also if you can make the decision to keep the little one home a little longer and spend time with him/her. OK if it is only a couple of years not if it is permanent.

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It is important where.Bangkok is much much deare than ChiangMai. Also if you can make the decision to keep the little one home a little longer and spend time with him/her. OK if it is only a couple of years not if it is permanent.

This will be only for couple of years, dont want to live overseas all my life. I was planning of keeping my 3 year old at home and send him to school when he starts kindergarten at 5.

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One important consideration is if your wife can adapt to living here. You have your work for stimulation she will have to stay home and also interact with the community shopping etc.

If she can easilly adapt to different people and diferent ideas she may do well if not you are looking at disaster.,

In my view to spend time here succesfully you have to like living here and accept it as it is and not try to change it to what you are used to.

Your wife will have to have someone helping her in the home, this is not very expensive here and will make up for some of the labor saving devices in the states. If your wife can interact with her happily she will have a valuable resource and in a short time a good friend.

I realize many working here want to make it into a little america. I do not think they ever succeed in that.

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For major MNC doing business in Thailand the split employment contract is getting very problematic and many have discontinued the practice. The Thai revenue dept is getting very good at asking seemingly innocent questions when dong the yearly audits that if answered shows something is going on. Comes down to the MNC must justify how they are internally transferring the Thai revenue to an offshore entity to pay the offshore cost. If the services are being done in Thailand, you cannot legally pay offshore for them. To do so is violation of Thai Tax law. There are some loopholes that can be used, but like I said it is becoming very dodgy and only some agency type companies are still doing it (even though they provide labor to the MNC and are charging for complete fully disclosed onshore payment)

One other issue not brought up is the housing allowance is going to be subject to Thai income tax as well so some sort of tax equalization program needs to be place to make up for the 30% he is going to pay on it. Otherwise he is going to be paying well over 30% of his salary in Thai tax. Same will apply if he gets an education allowance that will be taxable as well. Home leaves are taxable also.

I would not even consider taking a package that comes to anything less the 20% more then what I can make in home country doing the same job.

$50k a year and a $1,200 housing allowance with no education allowance or tax equalization is ridiculous.

TH

Edited by thaihome
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Maybe not for me to decide what they do with their money but I am certainly entitled to let them know my impressions. Cheap Charlie is no problem for me in fact makes me proud to SAVE money and pay less then you and others did for the same item just because I was thorough about shopping it and not buying the first one off the shelf just to show I can, don't have an ego that big in spite of those who don't know me thinking I do.. It's a lot more to be proud of then pretentiously flaunting my income like a peacock in heat..

JFYI I'm no cheap Charlie I just don't waste money on frivolous, materialistic items that serve no other purpose except to make me look ostentatiousness, I tip generously for services most probably don't tip for at all (especially those with money who I've known over my life to be the cheapest Charlie's of all) and anytime I get more service then was expected it is also monetarily and verbally acknowledged as are all other things that REALLY matter..

My impression stands and it's <deleted> to say 150 to 200k per month is required to live comfortably especially with children the age of his as I live comfortably with 2 children of similar age for a third of that per month and that was the OP's question, not what it takes for you or others to live comfortably high up on your pedestal...

My fixed costs with a kid in international school is 75k a month before I even have a beer or a bowl of rice, and I don't have rent to pay.

Your kid is how old?? And is that absolutely the only school they can attend?? I checked out a very nice school QSI International when I was in Phuket and it was no where near that cost for young children.. Specious argument without all the facts..

That's not the cost for the school, that's my fixed costs which includes having a 7 year old in International School.

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That's always a theme in these threads - people popping up emphasizing that they make more money than God and that everyone else should be too. Maybe your bargaining power came from a reputation that you had built up in the industry, an established track record working offshore, or a high need for Westerners with your particular expertise in Thailand. Hate to tell you this, but not everyone can write their own ticket.

Pretty sure God has a higher take home pay than me, and guess he gets better tax breaks as well.... I mean walking on water must warrant some tax deduction and there must be depreciation applicable on lightening bolts . .....:whistling:

Hey, don’t get me wrong, I too am fabulously wealthy. I dine with kings, give fashion advice to the Pope, play snooker with Warren Buffet, and have never lost a bar fight.

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That's always a theme in these threads - people popping up emphasizing that they make more money than God and that everyone else should be too. Maybe your bargaining power came from a reputation that you had built up in the industry, an established track record working offshore, or a high need for Westerners with your particular expertise in Thailand. Hate to tell you this, but not everyone can write their own ticket.

Pretty sure God has a higher take home pay than me, and guess he gets better tax breaks as well.... I mean walking on water must warrant some tax deduction and there must be depreciation applicable on lightening bolts . .....:whistling:

Hey, don’t get me wrong, I too am fabulously wealthy. I dine with kings, give fashion advice to the Pope, play snooker with Warren Buffet, and have never lost a bar fight.

don't forget sex god....

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I was already in Thailand when I was hired on an expat package, and I am on almost double what I would get in either Europe or the US in the same position (If you factor in the advantagous tax structure you can set up here)....so where do you think my bargaining power was ?....:lol:

That's always a theme in these threads - people popping up emphasizing that they make more money than God and that everyone else should be too. Maybe your bargaining power came from a reputation that you had built up in the industry, an established track record working offshore, or a high need for Westerners with your particular expertise in Thailand. Hate to tell you this, but not everyone can write their own ticket.

He only said that the offered him almost double the pay he could get in Europe or the US.Maybe they just didn't want him overthere unless he wanted to work for peanuts.Double of almost nothing is still not a lot.:D

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One important consideration is if your wife can adapt to living here. You have your work for stimulation she will have to stay home and also interact with the community shopping etc.

If she can easilly adapt to different people and diferent ideas she may do well if not you are looking at disaster.,

In my view to spend time here succesfully you have to like living here and accept it as it is and not try to change it to what you are used to.

Your wife will have to have someone helping her in the home, this is not very expensive here and will make up for some of the labor saving devices in the states. If your wife can interact with her happily she will have a valuable resource and in a short time a good friend.

I realize many working here want to make it into a little america. I do not think they ever succeed in that.

My father in law which is Thai and he said he is willing to stay with us for a bit so we can settle in. I dont know how my wife will react since this is her first time living overseas. I myself lived and travel overseas extensively from my time in the military.

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One important consideration is if your wife can adapt to living here. You have your work for stimulation she will have to stay home and also interact with the community shopping etc.

If she can easilly adapt to different people and diferent ideas she may do well if not you are looking at disaster.,

In my view to spend time here succesfully you have to like living here and accept it as it is and not try to change it to what you are used to.

Your wife will have to have someone helping her in the home, this is not very expensive here and will make up for some of the labor saving devices in the states. If your wife can interact with her happily she will have a valuable resource and in a short time a good friend.

I realize many working here want to make it into a little america. I do not think they ever succeed in that.

My father in law which is Thai and he said he is willing to stay with us for a bit so we can settle in. I dont know how my wife will react since this is her first time living overseas. I myself lived and travel overseas extensively from my time in the military.

If your father in law is Thai that would make your wife also Thai isn't it?

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One important consideration is if your wife can adapt to living here. You have your work for stimulation she will have to stay home and also interact with the community shopping etc.

If she can easilly adapt to different people and diferent ideas she may do well if not you are looking at disaster.,

In my view to spend time here succesfully you have to like living here and accept it as it is and not try to change it to what you are used to.

Your wife will have to have someone helping her in the home, this is not very expensive here and will make up for some of the labor saving devices in the states. If your wife can interact with her happily she will have a valuable resource and in a short time a good friend.

I realize many working here want to make it into a little america. I do not think they ever succeed in that.

My father in law which is Thai and he said he is willing to stay with us for a bit so we can settle in. I dont know how my wife will react since this is her first time living overseas. I myself lived and travel overseas extensively from my time in the military.

If your father in law is Thai that would make your wife also Thai isn't it?

Im Cambodian, my wife is thai, but we have been born and raised in the states so pretty much American with a lot of cultural thai/cambodian influence from our parents.

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For major MNC doing business in Thailand the split employment contract is getting very problematic and many have discontinued the practice. The Thai revenue dept is getting very good at asking seemingly innocent questions when dong the yearly audits that if answered shows something is going on. Comes down to the MNC must justify how they are internally transferring the Thai revenue to an offshore entity to pay the offshore cost. If the services are being done in Thailand, you cannot legally pay offshore for them. To do so is violation of Thai Tax law. There are some loopholes that can be used, but like I said it is becoming very dodgy and only some agency type companies are still doing it (even though they provide labor to the MNC and are charging for complete fully disclosed onshore payment)

One other issue not brought up is the housing allowance is going to be subject to Thai income tax as well so some sort of tax equalization program needs to be place to make up for the 30% he is going to pay on it. Otherwise he is going to be paying well over 30% of his salary in Thai tax. Same will apply if he gets an education allowance that will be taxable as well. Home leaves are taxable also.

I would not even consider taking a package that comes to anything less the 20% more then what I can make in home country doing the same job.

$50k a year and a $1,200 housing allowance with no education allowance or tax equalization is ridiculous.

TH

The beauty of a MNC is that they have offices outside of Thailand also and can pay you offshore, from say their head office, and not have the Thai local branch or taxman involved at all.

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For major MNC doing business in Thailand the split employment contract is getting very problematic and many have discontinued the practice. The Thai revenue dept is getting very good at asking seemingly innocent questions when dong the yearly audits that if answered shows something is going on. Comes down to the MNC must justify how they are internally transferring the Thai revenue to an offshore entity to pay the offshore cost. If the services are being done in Thailand, you cannot legally pay offshore for them. To do so is violation of Thai Tax law. There are some loopholes that can be used, but like I said it is becoming very dodgy and only some agency type companies are still doing it (even though they provide labor to the MNC and are charging for complete fully disclosed onshore payment)

One other issue not brought up is the housing allowance is going to be subject to Thai income tax as well so some sort of tax equalization program needs to be place to make up for the 30% he is going to pay on it. Otherwise he is going to be paying well over 30% of his salary in Thai tax. Same will apply if he gets an education allowance that will be taxable as well. Home leaves are taxable also.

I would not even consider taking a package that comes to anything less the 20% more then what I can make in home country doing the same job.

$50k a year and a $1,200 housing allowance with no education allowance or tax equalization is ridiculous.

TH

The beauty of a MNC is that they have offices outside of Thailand also and can pay you offshore, from say their head office, and not have the Thai local branch or taxman involved at all.

Agree. I think they are two separate issues.

In addition, revenues may also come from offshore, so there really isn't any dodgy transfer pricing or illicit transfer of Thai originated revenues.

The additional fact that Thailand has these laws on the books means that they are there to be used.

I mentioned to the 2IC of the Thai BOI a while back why didn't they advertise Thailand as a tax haven. She looked at me a little strangely, but I didn't think it would be such a bad idea. No doubt a simlar set up in the UK for 'non-doms' has arguably helped London remain a financial centre.

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The beauty of a MNC is that they have offices outside of Thailand also and can pay you offshore, from say their head office, and not have the Thai local branch or taxman involved at all.

That only works if the MNC are willing to have the offshore entity show the loss (cost without revenue) and the Thai entity enjoy the extra profit of having revenue without all the cost. If they are unwilling to do that, then they have to make an intercompany agreement to pay the offshore entity and if there are no real services provided offshore, the Thai Revenue dept will look very hard at what is going on. It still doesn’t change the fact that it is illegal under Thai law for services to be provided in Thailand but paid for offshore in order to avoid personal income tax, VAT, or withholding tax. These days, many MNC will not knowingly violate local laws as was done in the past (of course they have no problem using agencies to provide labor that do violate the laws).

Another comment made earlier seemed to imply where your salary was deposited made some sort of a difference. It doesn’t. I have worked overseas for 15 years, including almost 10 in Thailand and have always been paid in USD in my US bank account, despite paying local income tax on it in 4 different countries. Where the money is deposited doesn’t matter, what matters is if the salary is disclosed to the local tax authorities.

None of this really matters; the crux of the issue is the OP is being offered a job in Thailand where he will be working for significantly less then if he stayed in the US. Not something easily to accept without some compelling reason to want to live in Thailand.

TH

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The beauty of a MNC is that they have offices outside of Thailand also and can pay you offshore, from say their head office, and not have the Thai local branch or taxman involved at all.

That only works if the MNC are willing to have the offshore entity show the loss (cost without revenue) and the Thai entity enjoy the extra profit of having revenue without all the cost. If they are unwilling to do that, then they have to make an intercompany agreement to pay the offshore entity and if there are no real services provided offshore, the Thai Revenue dept will look very hard at what is going on. It still doesn’t change the fact that it is illegal under Thai law for services to be provided in Thailand but paid for offshore in order to avoid personal income tax, VAT, or withholding tax. These days, many MNC will not knowingly violate local laws as was done in the past (of course they have no problem using agencies to provide labor that do violate the laws).

Another comment made earlier seemed to imply where your salary was deposited made some sort of a difference. It doesn’t. I have worked overseas for 15 years, including almost 10 in Thailand and have always been paid in USD in my US bank account, despite paying local income tax on it in 4 different countries. Where the money is deposited doesn’t matter, what matters is if the salary is disclosed to the local tax authorities.

None of this really matters; the crux of the issue is the OP is being offered a job in Thailand where he will be working for significantly less then if he stayed in the US. Not something easily to accept without some compelling reason to want to live in Thailand.

TH

I think the Thai revenue department would beg to differ:

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/552.0.html

(feel free to press the translation button that firefox offers you).

Specifically

2. เงินได้เกิดจากแหล่งนอกประเทศไทย หมายถึง เงินได้ที่เกิดขึ้นหรือเป็นผลสืบเนื่องจากมี

2.1 หน้าที่งานที่ทำในต่างประเทศ หรือ

2.2 กิจการที่ทำในต่างประเทศ หรือ

2.3 ทรัพย์สินที่อยู่ในต่างประเทศ

* เงื่อนไข ผู้มีเงินได้เกิดจากแหล่งนอกประเทศในปีภาษีที่ล่วงมาแล้วจะต้องเสียภาษีเงิน ได้ ในประเทศไทยก็ต่อเมื่อเข้าองค์ประกอบทั้ง 2 ประการ ดังต่อไปนี้

(1) ผู้มีเงินได้เป็น ผู้อยู่ในประเทศไทย ในปีภาษีนั้นชั่วระยะเวลาหนึ่งหรือหลายระยะเวลา รวมทั้งหมดถึง 180 วัน และ

(2) ผู้มีเงินได้ นำเงินได้นั้นเข้ามาในประเทศไทยในปีภาษีนั้นด้วย

ในการเสียภาษีเงินได้บุคคลธรรมดาบางกรณี ถ้าเกี่ยวข้องกับบุคคลของบางประเทศที่มี อนุสัญญาภาษีซ้อน* หรือ ความตกลงเพื่อป้องกันการเก็บภาษีซ้ำซ้อนกับประเทศไทยจำเป็นต้องพิจารณาถึง ความ ตกลงหรืออนุสัญญาว่าด้วยการเว้นการเก็บภาษีซ้อนระหว่างประเทศไทยได้ทำความ ตกลงไว้ด้วย

So, the regulation, in the original Thai, on the revenue departments website.

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The beauty of a MNC is that they have offices outside of Thailand also and can pay you offshore, from say their head office, and not have the Thai local branch or taxman involved at all.

That only works if the MNC are willing to have the offshore entity show the loss (cost without revenue) and the Thai entity enjoy the extra profit of having revenue without all the cost. If they are unwilling to do that, then they have to make an intercompany agreement to pay the offshore entity and if there are no real services provided offshore, the Thai Revenue dept will look very hard at what is going on. It still doesn't change the fact that it is illegal under Thai law for services to be provided in Thailand but paid for offshore in order to avoid personal income tax, VAT, or withholding tax. These days, many MNC will not knowingly violate local laws as was done in the past (of course they have no problem using agencies to provide labor that do violate the laws).

Another comment made earlier seemed to imply where your salary was deposited made some sort of a difference. It doesn't. I have worked overseas for 15 years, including almost 10 in Thailand and have always been paid in USD in my US bank account, despite paying local income tax on it in 4 different countries. Where the money is deposited doesn't matter, what matters is if the salary is disclosed to the local tax authorities.

None of this really matters; the crux of the issue is the OP is being offered a job in Thailand where he will be working for significantly less then if he stayed in the US. Not something easily to accept without some compelling reason to want to live in Thailand.

TH

In my case, and the other 120 or so expats that I work with, we're 'head office' employees and are funded by the revenues received by head office in US$ from our project.

Local revenues are used to pay local subcontractors and suppliers and local salaries.

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The beauty of a MNC is that they have offices outside of Thailand also and can pay you offshore, from say their head office, and not have the Thai local branch or taxman involved at all.

That only works if the MNC are willing to have the offshore entity show the loss (cost without revenue) and the Thai entity enjoy the extra profit of having revenue without all the cost. If they are unwilling to do that, then they have to make an intercompany agreement to pay the offshore entity and if there are no real services provided offshore, the Thai Revenue dept will look very hard at what is going on. It still doesn’t change the fact that it is illegal under Thai law for services to be provided in Thailand but paid for offshore in order to avoid personal income tax, VAT, or withholding tax. These days, many MNC will not knowingly violate local laws as was done in the past (of course they have no problem using agencies to provide labor that do violate the laws).

Another comment made earlier seemed to imply where your salary was deposited made some sort of a difference. It doesn’t. I have worked overseas for 15 years, including almost 10 in Thailand and have always been paid in USD in my US bank account, despite paying local income tax on it in 4 different countries. Where the money is deposited doesn’t matter, what matters is if the salary is disclosed to the local tax authorities.

None of this really matters; the crux of the issue is the OP is being offered a job in Thailand where he will be working for significantly less then if he stayed in the US. Not something easily to accept without some compelling reason to want to live in Thailand.

TH

I think the Thai revenue department would beg to differ:

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/552.0.html

(feel free to press the translation button that firefox offers you).

Specifically

2. เงินได้เกิดจากแหล่งนอกประเทศไทย หมายถึง เงินได้ที่เกิดขึ้นหรือเป็นผลสืบเนื่องจากมี

2.1 หน้าที่งานที่ทำในต่างประเทศ หรือ

2.2 กิจการที่ทำในต่างประเทศ หรือ

2.3 ทรัพย์สินที่อยู่ในต่างประเทศ

* เงื่อนไข ผู้มีเงินได้เกิดจากแหล่งนอกประเทศในปีภาษีที่ล่วงมาแล้วจะต้องเสียภาษีเงิน ได้ ในประเทศไทยก็ต่อเมื่อเข้าองค์ประกอบทั้ง 2 ประการ ดังต่อไปนี้

(1) ผู้มีเงินได้เป็น ผู้อยู่ในประเทศไทย ในปีภาษีนั้นชั่วระยะเวลาหนึ่งหรือหลายระยะเวลา รวมทั้งหมดถึง 180 วัน และ

(2) ผู้มีเงินได้ นำเงินได้นั้นเข้ามาในประเทศไทยในปีภาษีนั้นด้วย

ในการเสียภาษีเงินได้บุคคลธรรมดาบางกรณี ถ้าเกี่ยวข้องกับบุคคลของบางประเทศที่มี อนุสัญญาภาษีซ้อน* หรือ ความตกลงเพื่อป้องกันการเก็บภาษีซ้ำซ้อนกับประเทศไทยจำเป็นต้องพิจารณาถึง ความ ตกลงหรืออนุสัญญาว่าด้วยการเว้นการเก็บภาษีซ้อนระหว่างประเทศไทยได้ทำความ ตกลงไว้ด้วย

So, the regulation, in the original Thai, on the revenue departments website.

2.1 says “work in a foreign country”. If you are working in Thailand then how can you be working outside the country unless you leave?

The tax code specifically says if you work in Thailand, your entire income is subject to Thai tax regardless of where it is paid.

Here is a link to a document prepared by Tilleke & Gibbins (among others) that summarizes the Thai Tax laws pretty well.

A SUMMARY OF THAILAND’S TAX LAWS1

It says on page 14:

7. Territorial Rules

Under the Revenue Code, an individual, Thai or foreign, who derives assessable

income from sources in Thailand is liable to pay personal income tax whether or not

such income is paid within or outside Thailand.

Split contracts for labor provided in Thailand are not legal. If they catch you at it, they will go after you.

I know, we just won a case where they tried to pin it on us because of intercompany agreements. We won only because we could show the offshore entity did indeed provide offshore services and was not just hiding offshore payments to expats in Thailand.

The split contract days are numbered.

TH

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