A Farang Living In Thailand

[phutoie2]

It is not very difficult to get permanent residence in Thailand, if you examine some other places than bars .

It was really easy, I just submitted the required documentation, paid a fee and waited 3 months. Everything is easy if you have what they ask for.

The question is whether you have the ability to get it, you must meet the requirements and it can be different from person to person, what country you come from, etc.

They offered it to me after 3 years here, I did not ask for it, immigration authorities said I fulfilled the requirements.

How many PR's have been issued since the coup of 2006??, there have been reports of some recently I believe but no verification?.

Plus you cannot apply for PR if you are a retiree here, so pretty much a non starter for many of us.

Please stop harping on about how wonderful Norway is too!!, the only time I visited there in 1986 (NATO AMF Exercise) whisky was about 50 GBP a bottle, gawd knows what the cost of living is now.

[Richard4849]

It is not very difficult to get permanent residence in Thailand, if you examine some other places than bars .

It was really easy, I just submitted the required documentation, paid a fee and waited 3 months. Everything is easy if you have what they ask for.

The question is whether you have the ability to get it, you must meet the requirements and it can be different from person to person, what country you come from, etc.

They offered it to me after 3 years here, I did not ask for it, immigration authorities said I fulfilled the requirements.

How many PR's have been issued since the coup of 2006??, there have been reports of some recently I believe but no verification?.

Plus you cannot apply for PR if you are a retiree here, so pretty much a non starter for many of us.

Please stop harping on about how wonderful Norway is too!!, the only time I visited there in 1986 (NATO AMF Exercise) whisky was about 50 GBP a bottle, gawd knows what the cost of living is now.

I can personally confirm that a small number of PR's have been granted in the past year. There's an incredible backlog, though, so it makes one wonder what's up.

Retirees (non-retirees as well) can go straight for citizenship now if they are married to a Thai woman -- no need for PR. It's not a simple process, though is it anywhere, really?.

[jdinasia]

[

One cannot be a 'citizen' here. Merely a 'subject'. Huge difference. Do your homework.

Pardon me?

Thailand is a kingdom. Sovereignty resides in the monarch unlike a republic, where sovereignty resides in the people.

Thailand is a constitutional monarchy. Citizenship is the appropriate word.

[bermondburi]

Maybe Thailand is fed up by Frang that will not integrate into society, farang who insist on living western lifestyles, refuses to learn the language, refuses to comply with visa regulations, etc.

Maybe it will be easier for us farang living here when we begin to correct us by the host's rules and culture.

Thailand has always had big problems with immigrants that cause the country great economic losses and crime.

If you want to make money here so you should have a work permit.

I think this is the same in many western countries.

Thailand doesnt have big problems with immigrants...as I think the vast majority of expats living in Thailand are on Non-immigrant visa's, therefore they are not immigrants, and see as we are making big statements....please supply examples where in immigrants caused great economic loss and significant crime in Thailand ?

IMHO the biggest crooks in Thailand are those who have been appointed to up hold law and order in Thailand

two million Burmese, plus the ones from Cambodia and Laos..........................................

[bermondburi]

The longer you live here the more you realize that we will never be accepted as anything more than alien visitors completely different in every respect than a "Thai," from their perspective anyway.

Its frustrating because the more you live here and make an attempt to learn the language, culture etc., you eventually start asking yourself; "why hava I put so much effort into it?"

For me, I love my wife and she will always accept me, so its worth it; at least thats the best I can come up with

But when you see things like the music thing, and hear Thais say things like "I don't care if a 'falang' has lived here 10,000 years, they will never be part of our culture" it is very disheartening and dissapointing.

The OP is speaking words of truth and so are you, Kurt Vonnegut, I mean, Kilgore Trout Many of us who have been here more than a decade sreally miss the past when xenophobia was not felt and it seemed like we were welcomed in Thailand. The welcome mat started going away when a certain nameless person (who has a square head) took control and brought out the worst traits Thais possess. That was a sad turning point in Thai history. After that the immigration rules were radically changed (why those rules were not changed under the new administration is a mystery) and "sanook" started being harder and harder to find. I know I will never fit in. Now I have desire to fit it This is the most xenophobic country I have ever lived in, and I have lived in many countries because of my job. But many farangs do not see the xenophobia, especially those who have no long-term perspective and have only been here a few years. All they see is what is on the surface. Unfortunately, the more the economy goes downhill, the more farangs will be used as scapegoats for everything that has gone wrong in Thailand. Thais really do not accept blame for anything, as far as I can tell. They rationalize the most abhorrent behavior, including stealing from farangs. Arresting foreign musicians for playing on the street borders on insanity--especially if they are not asking for money.

get over it, you've probably got a far better life than most Thais, who gives a fuc_k if they don't respect you. You really care what they think so much. " oooooooooooooooh these people don't respect me, what shall I do " grow a spine !

[Richard4849]

We'd be up sh*t creek without all those Burmese, Laotian, and Cambodian workers...just like the US depends on Mexican labor. Most of them are very hard-working people (while working for peanuts) and create few problems.

[EirikJohannesen]

It is not very difficult to get permanent residence in Thailand, if you examine some other places than bars .

It was really easy, I just submitted the required documentation, paid a fee and waited 3 months. Everything is easy if you have what they ask for.

The question is whether you have the ability to get it, you must meet the requirements and it can be different from person to person, what country you come from, etc.

They offered it to me after 3 years here, I did not ask for it, immigration authorities said I fulfilled the requirements.

How many PR's have been issued since the coup of 2006??, there have been reports of some recently I believe but no verification?.

Plus you cannot apply for PR if you are a retiree here, so pretty much a non starter for many of us.

Please stop harping on about how wonderful Norway is too!!, the only time I visited there in 1986 (NATO AMF Exercise) whisky was about 50 GBP a bottle, gawd knows what the cost of living is now.

์ื Norway has a fantastic nature and that's about the only thing that is wonderful with Norway.

Immigration policy has damaged Norway.

A Toyota Vigo costs 600K Baht in Thailand and 3.3 Million Baht in Norway.

1liter petrol 84 baht

1 kg chicken fillet 1500 baht

20 cigarettes 550 baht

Welfare system is good in Norway

Welcome to Norway if you are a millionaire. :jap:

They handed out 100 PR in 2010 so it is still possible to get it.

[carmine]

It is not very difficult to get permanent residence in Thailand, if you examine some other places than bars .

It was really easy, I just submitted the required documentation, paid a fee and waited 3 months. Everything is easy if you have what they ask for.

The question is whether you have the ability to get it, you must meet the requirements and it can be different from person to person, what country you come from, etc.

They offered it to me after 3 years here, I did not ask for it, immigration authorities said I fulfilled the requirements.

How many PR's have been issued since the coup of 2006??, there have been reports of some recently I believe but no verification?.

Plus you cannot apply for PR if you are a retiree here, so pretty much a non starter for many of us.

Please stop harping on about how wonderful Norway is too!!, the only time I visited there in 1986 (NATO AMF Exercise) whisky was about 50 GBP a bottle, gawd knows what the cost of living is now.

์ื Norway has a fantastic nature and that's about the only thing that is wonderful with Norway.

Immigration policy has damaged Norway.

A Toyota Vigo costs 600K Baht in Thailand and 3.3 Million Baht in Norway.

1liter petrol 84 baht

1 kg chicken fillet 1500 baht

20 cigarettes 550 baht

Welfare system is good in Norway

Welcome to Norway if you are a millionaire. :jap:

They handed out 100 PR in 2010 so it is still possible to get it.

How come i paid 960,000 baht for my Vigo?

What you also fail to mention is how much more you earn in Norway to pay for those items. Therefore the comparison is largely irrelevent.

[bermondburi]

Getting back to the OP..... yes, I'm sure that most of us miss our home countries at some point.

Never mind how long we have been here we will always be seen as 'farang' by the locals, even if they like us!

I know Westerners that have lived here for over 20 years, and whilst they 'understand' the Thai way of thinking, still find it objectionable.... Which is why most Westerners that have been here for a few years seek out other Westerners.

Its sad but true.

By 'the locals', I'm assuming you have no Thai friends? And if not, why not?

'Oh, haha, by the way 'they' (sic) 'understand' the 'The Thai way of thinking' ... I'm calling ignorant, racist snob on this one.

I'm guessing that, and I may be wrong, that the only contact with 'the locals' you have are your cleaner and those serve/wait on you. I'm right, aren't I?

Whenever people bring up the Thai friend things I always smell a rat. They think they have a THai friend. Not what I would really call a friend. But this isn't a reflection on Thais being bad friends as such but more that I don't think Thais have Thai friends really. They have aquaintances they might do stuff with but when it comes to anything that I might expect from a friend then they would do that thing with their families. Thais' families are their friends. therefore I might not have any Thai friends *( like most foreigners I know who have been here x number of years ) but I do have many people in my Thai family who are my friends for doing friend stuff, if that makes sense.

And on a different note ( probably going to get slated here ) , this used to bother me, not having any Thai friends, but after x amount of years and x amount of experience in the country , I realised that I don't actually want any Thai friends. When it comes down to it I would much rather be watching football or going out to a bar with another westerner than a Thai. Just got more in common really. no big deal. No matter how long I've been here we do tend to things in different ways. Eating habits, drinking habits etc, what we enjoy doing.

Thai family for friends, much more reliable too.

what do you think ?

[jdinasia]

Whenever people bring up the Thai friend things I always smell a rat. They think they have a THai friend. Not what I would really call a friend. But this isn't a reflection on Thais being bad friends as such but more that I don't think Thais have Thai friends really. They have aquaintances they might do stuff with but when it comes to anything that I might expect from a friend then they would do that thing with their families. Thais' families are their friends. therefore I might not have any Thai friends *( like most foreigners I know who have been here x number of years ) but I do have many people in my Thai family who are my friends for doing friend stuff, if that makes sense.

And on a different note ( probably going to get slated here ) , this used to bother me, not having any Thai friends, but after x amount of years and x amount of experience in the country , I realised that I don't actually want any Thai friends. When it comes down to it I would much rather be watching football or going out to a bar with another westerner than a Thai. Just got more in common really. no big deal. No matter how long I've been here we do tend to things in different ways. Eating habits, drinking habits etc, what we enjoy doing.

Thai family for friends, much more reliable too.

what do you think ?

I don't doubt that some people that have been here for years don't have any Thai friends.

I do know that all the Thais I know have friends. Most of their close friends, have been friends since at least college -- or high school if they didn't attend college but some are more recent friends that come from work or where they live. I assume if you live in a village as opposed to a city this may reflect upon how you see the vast range of friendships that Thais do have.

I do have Thai friends and to be honest I have more in common with them than I do most foreigners I know here in Thailand.

That means, I guess, that perhaps we all experience Thailand a bit differently

[EirikJohannesen]

It is not very difficult to get permanent residence in Thailand, if you examine some other places than bars .

It was really easy, I just submitted the required documentation, paid a fee and waited 3 months. Everything is easy if you have what they ask for.

The question is whether you have the ability to get it, you must meet the requirements and it can be different from person to person, what country you come from, etc.

They offered it to me after 3 years here, I did not ask for it, immigration authorities said I fulfilled the requirements.

How many PR's have been issued since the coup of 2006??, there have been reports of some recently I believe but no verification?.

Plus you cannot apply for PR if you are a retiree here, so pretty much a non starter for many of us.

Please stop harping on about how wonderful Norway is too!!, the only time I visited there in 1986 (NATO AMF Exercise) whisky was about 50 GBP a bottle, gawd knows what the cost of living is now.

์ื Norway has a fantastic nature and that's about the only thing that is wonderful with Norway.

Immigration policy has damaged Norway.

A Toyota Vigo costs 600K Baht in Thailand and 3.3 Million Baht in Norway.

1liter petrol 84 baht

1 kg chicken fillet 1500 baht

20 cigarettes 550 baht

Welfare system is good in Norway

Welcome to Norway if you are a millionaire. :jap:

They handed out 100 PR in 2010 so it is still possible to get it.

How come i paid 960,000 baht for my Vigo?

What you also fail to mention is how much more you earn in Norway to pay for those items. Therefore the comparison is largely irrelevent.

You have failed to read the post that led to this response, Income in Norway, read the post above.

Yes I should written 900K typing error, Could not access the "edit"

Edited June 8, 2011 by EirikJohannesen

[EirikJohannesen]

Getting back to the OP..... yes, I'm sure that most of us miss our home countries at some point.

Never mind how long we have been here we will always be seen as 'farang' by the locals, even if they like us!

I know Westerners that have lived here for over 20 years, and whilst they 'understand' the Thai way of thinking, still find it objectionable.... Which is why most Westerners that have been here for a few years seek out other Westerners.

Its sad but true.

By 'the locals', I'm assuming you have no Thai friends? And if not, why not?

'Oh, haha, by the way 'they' (sic) 'understand' the 'The Thai way of thinking' ... I'm calling ignorant, racist snob on this one.

I'm guessing that, and I may be wrong, that the only contact with 'the locals' you have are your cleaner and those serve/wait on you. I'm right, aren't I?

Whenever people bring up the Thai friend things I always smell a rat. They think they have a THai friend. Not what I would really call a friend. But this isn't a reflection on Thais being bad friends as such but more that I don't think Thais have Thai friends really. They have aquaintances they might do stuff with but when it comes to anything that I might expect from a friend then they would do that thing with their families. Thais' families are their friends. therefore I might not have any Thai friends *( like most foreigners I know who have been here x number of years ) but I do have many people in my Thai family who are my friends for doing friend stuff, if that makes sense.

And on a different note ( probably going to get slated here ) , this used to bother me, not having any Thai friends, but after x amount of years and x amount of experience in the country , I realised that I don't actually want any Thai friends. When it comes down to it I would much rather be watching football or going out to a bar with another westerner than a Thai. Just got more in common really. no big deal. No matter how long I've been here we do tend to things in different ways. Eating habits, drinking habits etc, what we enjoy doing.

Thai family for friends, much more reliable too.

what do you think ?

I have good Thai friends, but it's very easy for me because I speak Thai as well as my mother tongue. I agree that it is easier to have friends within the family. I find it hard to find good farang friends here, most is alcoholics and have a poor economy. I find often that farang will borrow money than Thai. But there is a taste issue how to choose friends. I have two good farang friends in the area, unfortunately, they live a distance from me.

[aneliane]

But when you see things like the music thing, and hear Thais say things like "I don't care if a 'falang' has lived here 10,000 years, they will never be part of our culture" it is very disheartening and dissapointing.

I put this under lack of education. The thing is, with economic growth and access to western way of life, Thais start to discard their very own culture : They discard their own local market and head for the supermarket where they buy ready meals like we do or they just eat out and never even toss a salad...I was amazed to notice that only one person out 20 in my office actually knew how to cook any Thai dish when I was asking for cooking tips.

When someone tells me something like this, I ask them questions about their own culture (for me mainly cooking) and most of times they don't have answers , I then explain my recipe and they usually look embarrassed ...

[Richard4849]

Does anyone who was born and raised in another culture really become 100% part of another?

I kind of doubt it.

Just think of in the West, you have the immigrant generation who will always speak with an accent even if they speak English/German/French/Spanish well, and will always display traits of the culture in which they were brought up. Not just the way they talks, the way they move, relate to others, think -- it is all deeply ingrained, and as "local" as you go, it's still there.

Now, when the second generation comes along -- born and raised on the new home country's soil -- that is only when you truly belong to a new culture. Even then, you are highly influenced by your immigrant parents. The more generations pass, the more tied to the new culture you become.

But I don't think someone who immigrates somewhere as an adult can truly blend in and be accepted as a 100% authentic member of the new culture. I can remember my great-grandparents -- who were all immigrants from Europe -- and thinking how "foreign" they were, with their funny accents, funny clothes, funny things they ate and the funny music they liked to listen to...they even smelled kinda foreign.

[aneliane]

Does anyone who was born and raised in another culture really become 100% part of another?

I kind of doubt it.

Just think of in the West, you have the immigrant generation who will always speak with an accent even if they speak English/German/French/Spanish well, and will always display traits of the culture in which they were brought up. Not just the way they talks, the way they move, relate to others, think -- it is all deeply ingrained, and as "local" as you go, it's still there.

Now, when the second generation comes along -- born and raised on the new home country's soil -- that is only when you truly belong to a new culture. Even then, you are highly influenced by your immigrant parents. The more generations pass, the more tied to the new culture you become.

But I don't think someone who immigrates somewhere as an adult can truly blend in and be accepted as a 100% authentic member of the new culture. I can remember my great-grandparents -- who were all immigrants from Europe -- and thinking how "foreign" they were, with their funny accents, funny clothes, funny things they ate and the funny music they liked to listen to...they even smelled kinda foreign.

I don't think it is the issue here, Thailand does not integrate migrants like USA and a Robert De Niro, equivalent could never exist here.

[surayu]

I ask them questions about their own culture (for me mainly cooking) and most of times they don't have answers ,

This is a worldwide thing. I believe that refusing to know or understand whatever is taking place outside of someone's little world is at least one of the cause of it. People feel there is no need to understand others or whatever else happening outside of their own immediate interests, the biggest of them are in an almost totally vegetative kind of state.....

[Thaddeus]

...they even smelled kinda foreign.

Elderberries?

[Richard4849]

Does anyone who was born and raised in another culture really become 100% part of another?

I kind of doubt it.

Just think of in the West, you have the immigrant generation who will always speak with an accent even if they speak English/German/French/Spanish well, and will always display traits of the culture in which they were brought up. Not just the way they talks, the way they move, relate to others, think -- it is all deeply ingrained, and as "local" as you go, it's still there.

Now, when the second generation comes along -- born and raised on the new home country's soil -- that is only when you truly belong to a new culture. Even then, you are highly influenced by your immigrant parents. The more generations pass, the more tied to the new culture you become.

But I don't think someone who immigrates somewhere as an adult can truly blend in and be accepted as a 100% authentic member of the new culture. I can remember my great-grandparents -- who were all immigrants from Europe -- and thinking how "foreign" they were, with their funny accents, funny clothes, funny things they ate and the funny music they liked to listen to...they even smelled kinda foreign.

I don't think it is the issue here, Thailand does not integrate migrants like USA and a Robert De Niro, equivalent could never exist here.

Tell that to the 40%+ of Bangkok's population who are children, grandchildren, and great-grand-children who have Chinese immigrant blood. The Chinese here are more integrated than anywhere else in Asia, and are quite simply as Thai as anyone else. They have inter-married with more people here than in any other ethnic Chinese community I can think of.

The ethnic Mon, Thai Phuan, Lao, Khmer, etc. immigrants to Thailand over the past hundred years are also so integrated as to be virtually indistinguishable from anywhere else.

The thousands of children born to one Thai parent and one foreign parent are also seamlessly integrated.

In fact, I think if you were to do genetic testing, you would find very, very few people who are of 100% Tai stock (unlike, say, the purer populations of places like Japan, Korea, and China).

Thailand is a big melting pot -- it integrates migrants as well or better than anywhere else i can think of. Definitely far from a homogenized population.

[DP25]

I was amazed to notice that only one person out 20 in my office actually knew how to cook any Thai dish when I was asking for cooking tips.

When someone tells me something like this, I ask them questions about their own culture (for me mainly cooking) and most of times they don't have answers , I then explain my recipe and they usually look embarrassed ...

Why would that amaze you? Many people, especially in places like Bangkok, have eaten out almost every single meal of their entire lives. Unless their family owns a restaurant why would they learn when there is amazing and cheap food on every corner. Most people I know at home can't cook much either, but are kinda forced to to save money

[Richard4849]

...they even smelled kinda foreign.

Elderberries?

More like moth balls.

[F1fanatic]

Getting back to the OP..... yes, I'm sure that most of us miss our home countries at some point.

Never mind how long we have been here we will always be seen as 'farang' by the locals, even if they like us!

I know Westerners that have lived here for over 20 years, and whilst they 'understand' the Thai way of thinking, still find it objectionable.... Which is why most Westerners that have been here for a few years seek out other Westerners.

Its sad but true.

By 'the locals', I'm assuming you have no Thai friends? And if not, why not?

'Oh, haha, by the way 'they' (sic) 'understand' the 'The Thai way of thinking' ... I'm calling ignorant, racist snob on this one.

I'm guessing that, and I may be wrong, that the only contact with 'the locals' you have are your cleaner and those serve/wait on you. I'm right, aren't I?

You're obviously right and I'm wrong.

At first I tried to make Thai friends, but found that their main topic of conversation (money) just left me embarrassed that they thought it was OK to lie and cheat to get more money.... I could tell you some real horror stories about the things I was told - they thought I'd agree that they were incredibly clever ripping off someone else.

So you're right - cos I've pretty much given up, although I have to admit that I know and like a v few Thais that are not this way. I suspect that my problem is living on Phuket....

Edit - Ummm, where does Basildon come into it?

Edited June 8, 2011 by F1fanatic

[F1fanatic]

Getting back to the OP..... yes, I'm sure that most of us miss our home countries at some point.

Never mind how long we have been here we will always be seen as 'farang' by the locals, even if they like us!

I know Westerners that have lived here for over 20 years, and whilst they 'understand' the Thai way of thinking, still find it objectionable.... Which is why most Westerners that have been here for a few years seek out other Westerners.

Its sad but true.

By 'the locals', I'm assuming you have no Thai friends? And if not, why not?

'Oh, haha, by the way 'they' (sic) 'understand' the 'The Thai way of thinking' ... I'm calling ignorant, racist snob on this one.

I'm guessing that, and I may be wrong, that the only contact with 'the locals' you have are your cleaner and those serve/wait on you. I'm right, aren't I?

LOL --- ouch but kinda funny.

I know Westerners that have lived here over 20 years too! They don't claim to "understand" the Thai way of thinking. They think in Thai, instead. I don't know where "which is why most Westerners that have been here a few years seek out other Westerners" comes from. I sought out other Westerners some when I was relatively new here and didn't speak or understand Thai. These days I'll be helpful to another Westerner if sought out for information/advice, but I don't seek them out for the most part. Occasionally I will run into the touristy area (where UG is) but I find that I have a pretty low tolerance for it. Instead, I am most often the only white face wherever I am, other than work (and those white faces work for me) ...

I don't think some people are cut out to be a minority and that for other people it makes no difference. Perhaps, for me, it is that I have always been a minority (an invisible one at that) and thus have always heard people talking about "me" (when not talking about ME) ---- being gay and having always heard people talking about gays without realizing they were within earshot of one does thicken your skin quite quickly. The non-PC attitude here where people can say the truth without it being against social custom is one of the reasons I love it here. If you are caucasian people will refer to you as such (farang) if you are fat they will refer to you as such. Same goes for skinny etc etc etc ... The truth is there for all to see so they don't pretend ... I love it!

Neither 'ouch' or funny. But everyone to their own.

I've no doubt you're right that all those Westerners who have lived here for 20 odd years think in Thai.

They think that lying is OK (not white lies, but lying to gain an advantage) and are proud to rip other people off if they gain a financial advantage....

I'm obviously meeting the wrong sort of long term ex-pat who still has Western values about lying and trust.

[jdinasia]

Neither 'ouch' or funny. But everyone to their own.

I've no doubt you're right that all those Westerners who have lived here for 20 odd years think in Thai.

They think that lying is OK (not white lies, but lying to gain an advantage) and are proud to rip other people off if they gain a financial advantage....

I'm obviously meeting the wrong sort of long term ex-pat who still has Western values about lying and trust.

Some people aren't cut out for living abroad and since they can't blame their own decision making skills, they blame anyone and everyone else.

I have seen you directly refer to the wive's of expats as hookers ... and now your references to Thais in the post above .... I am amazed you choose to stay in a place where you seem to look down on everyone.

[MAJIC]

My suggestion to you is don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

The classical riposte of an aggrieved Thaiphile. Aggrieved by views which are different to his own.

[MAJIC]

It is what it is in Thailand.

The Thais, many of them, know the laws and the system is all wrong. many of them would like to modernize the nation but you know how that has been going. Coup after coup to keep the people down and to keep things the same is what we have seen.

I used to live and work in Thailand. It was a good party for a single man if you did not mind the down sides. But I noticed at the time how all my friends I worked with would leave. In fact, 95% of the guys who worked at my work place were gone after a decade. I am not kidding. When a guy would have kids, the man would almost always take them back to his home nation. That says a lot about Thailand and it is a big negative statement is it not.

Let us take one example here.

If you are a Thai, not even an immigrant, you can buy land America. You can buy land and own it 100%.

He can also get a green card which is permanent residence. using this, the same Thai can get citizenship in 3 years.

A Farang--derogatory name, cannot do any of this in Thailand.

Thais know their laws are stupid but they hold onto them.

Funny Farang telling us how kind some Thais are. Of course that is true. But the institution of discrimination against Farang is still there. Could you imagine how you would laugh had an American from the Old South defended the unfair laws of the 1960s by saying that many white people in the south are fair and kind? Yes--but the laws and institutions were not fair and kind. When you treat people unfairly based upon race, Nationality, sex, or class, you are a disease. You are part of the problems in this world and not part of the solutions.

If you do stay in Thailand, make friends in high places and you will be OK.

All things can be done if you have the right connections.

But a Farang should not be caught in Thailand should the nation break into a civil war because you would become ROADKILL!

"When a guy would have kids, the man would almost always take them back to his home nation. That says a lot about Thailand "

What this says about thailand is that it costs @15,000 US$ per child per year to send them to a decent school here in Thailand- i have found that most people who go back to their home countries with their kids do it because they cant afford to pay these fees and in fact they would love to stay in Thailand but are putting their kids first. I know because i have just been quoted 22,000 US$ per year for my 5 year old son to go to a school here in bangkok- outrageous, the international schools here have an oligopoly.

What this also say's is that many Parents are looking for a better Education,for their Children,which in most cases they know they will surely get,back in the their own Country.

hence the reason that many Politicians and hiso heirarchy in Thailand,have also been Educated in Top Universities Abroad.

It's not just about money, they are also putting their kids quality of Education first!

[MAJIC]

Does anyone who was born and raised in another culture really become 100% part of another?

I kind of doubt it.

Just think of in the West, you have the immigrant generation who will always speak with an accent even if they speak English/German/French/Spanish well, and will always display traits of the culture in which they were brought up. Not just the way they talks, the way they move, relate to others, think -- it is all deeply ingrained, and as "local" as you go, it's still there.

Now, when the second generation comes along -- born and raised on the new home country's soil -- that is only when you truly belong to a new culture. Even then, you are highly influenced by your immigrant parents. The more generations pass, the more tied to the new culture you become.

But I don't think someone who immigrates somewhere as an adult can truly blend in and be accepted as a 100% authentic member of the new culture. I can remember my great-grandparents -- who were all immigrants from Europe -- and thinking how "foreign" they were, with their funny accents, funny clothes, funny things they ate and the funny music they liked to listen to...they even smelled kinda foreign.

I don't think it is the issue here, Thailand does not integrate migrants like USA and a Robert De Niro, equivalent could never exist here.

Tell that to the 40%+ of Bangkok's population who are children, grandchildren, and great-grand-children who have Chinese immigrant blood. The Chinese here are more integrated than anywhere else in Asia, and are quite simply as Thai as anyone else. They have inter-married with more people here than in any other ethnic Chinese community I can think of.

The ethnic Mon, Thai Phuan, Lao, Khmer, etc. immigrants to Thailand over the past hundred years are also so integrated as to be virtually indistinguishable from anywhere else.

The thousands of children born to one Thai parent and one foreign parent are also seamlessly integrated.

In fact, I think if you were to do genetic testing, you would find very, very few people who are of 100% Tai stock (unlike, say, the purer populations of places like Japan, Korea, and China).

Thailand is a big melting pot -- it integrates migrants as well or better than anywhere else i can think of. Definitely far from a homogenized population.

Not surprising considering the Thais for the most part originated from the Chinese,some 6000 years ago.

Perhaps that is why,they do not seem to have a problem with the Chinese Heirarchy running their Country,or having a Hero Thai/Chinese Prime Minister in the form of Thaksin?

Edited June 8, 2011 by MAJIC

[Richard4849]

Does anyone who was born and raised in another culture really become 100% part of another?

I kind of doubt it.

Just think of in the West, you have the immigrant generation who will always speak with an accent even if they speak English/German/French/Spanish well, and will always display traits of the culture in which they were brought up. Not just the way they talks, the way they move, relate to others, think -- it is all deeply ingrained, and as "local" as you go, it's still there.

Now, when the second generation comes along -- born and raised on the new home country's soil -- that is only when you truly belong to a new culture. Even then, you are highly influenced by your immigrant parents. The more generations pass, the more tied to the new culture you become.

But I don't think someone who immigrates somewhere as an adult can truly blend in and be accepted as a 100% authentic member of the new culture. I can remember my great-grandparents -- who were all immigrants from Europe -- and thinking how "foreign" they were, with their funny accents, funny clothes, funny things they ate and the funny music they liked to listen to...they even smelled kinda foreign.

I don't think it is the issue here, Thailand does not integrate migrants like USA and a Robert De Niro, equivalent could never exist here.

Tell that to the 40%+ of Bangkok's population who are children, grandchildren, and great-grand-children who have Chinese immigrant blood. The Chinese here are more integrated than anywhere else in Asia, and are quite simply as Thai as anyone else. They have inter-married with more people here than in any other ethnic Chinese community I can think of.

The ethnic Mon, Thai Phuan, Lao, Khmer, etc. immigrants to Thailand over the past hundred years are also so integrated as to be virtually indistinguishable from anywhere else.

The thousands of children born to one Thai parent and one foreign parent are also seamlessly integrated.

In fact, I think if you were to do genetic testing, you would find very, very few people who are of 100% Tai stock (unlike, say, the purer populations of places like Japan, Korea, and China).

Thailand is a big melting pot -- it integrates migrants as well or better than anywhere else i can think of. Definitely far from a homogenized population.

Not surprising considering the Thais for the most part originated from the Chinese,some 6000 years ago.

Perhaps that is why,they do not seem to have a problem with the Chinese Heirarchy running their Country,or having a Hero Thai/Chinese Prime Minister in the form of Thaksin?

I don't think that has anything to do with it. 6,000 years is a long time ago, and people see everything about the cultures and peoples as completely distinct.

And Thaksin is far from the only Prime Minister who was not pure "Thai". Anand Panyarachun is half-Thai and half-Mon. Chavalit, Banharn, Chuan, Chatichai...all Chinese.

[Richard4849]

Oops...forgot Prime Minister Mark! Hakka Chinese.

[Ulysses G.]

Just how Thai do people want to be, and why? It's like wanting to belong to the society of a white trash trailer park, and makes no sense at all.

My suggestion to you is don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

Hear, hear!

[bermondburi]

Whenever people bring up the Thai friend things I always smell a rat. They think they have a THai friend. Not what I would really call a friend. But this isn't a reflection on Thais being bad friends as such but more that I don't think Thais have Thai friends really. They have aquaintances they might do stuff with but when it comes to anything that I might expect from a friend then they would do that thing with their families. Thais' families are their friends. therefore I might not have any Thai friends *( like most foreigners I know who have been here x number of years ) but I do have many people in my Thai family who are my friends for doing friend stuff, if that makes sense.

And on a different note ( probably going to get slated here ) , this used to bother me, not having any Thai friends, but after x amount of years and x amount of experience in the country , I realised that I don't actually want any Thai friends. When it comes down to it I would much rather be watching football or going out to a bar with another westerner than a Thai. Just got more in common really. no big deal. No matter how long I've been here we do tend to things in different ways. Eating habits, drinking habits etc, what we enjoy doing.

Thai family for friends, much more reliable too.

what do you think ?

I don't doubt that some people that have been here for years don't have any Thai friends.

I do know that all the Thais I know have friends. Most of their close friends, have been friends since at least college -- or high school if they didn't attend college but some are more recent friends that come from work or where they live. I assume if you live in a village as opposed to a city this may reflect upon how you see the vast range of friendships that Thais do have.

I do have Thai friends and to be honest I have more in common with them than I do most foreigners I know here in Thailand.

That means, I guess, that perhaps we all experience Thailand a bit differently

Live in Nonthaburi, not exactly a village. But like you say, we all experience things differently. What I was trying to get at was that Thais tend to be goodtime buddies, good to have a laugh with and stuff like that , but IMO when push comes to shove and you REALLY HAVE A PROBLEM, it tends to only be westerners who give a fuc_k. Maybe that's a reflection on my western friends though .