Thaksin Amnesty 'Not Top Priority'

[jdinasia]

I have noticed that the majority of members who attack Thaksin at every opportunity are the older members of TV, older in membership, not in age. This possibly reflects the number of years spent in Thailand, if so it suggests they are still trapped in the past, Thaksin was the bogey man that all sensible people should hate.

...

I also noticed a lot of new members recently who seem Ms. Yingluck fans for unclear clear reasons except 'she smiles nicely'. Many pro-Thaksin members seem to come and go (aka banned). Maybe older members just know how to avoid taunting pitfalls, trolls and other idiots? IMHO of course

I tried being nicer than that ....

[anterian]

I have noticed that the majority of members who attack Thaksin at every opportunity are the older members of TV, older in membership, not in age. This possibly reflects the number of years spent in Thailand, if so it suggests they are still trapped in the past, Thaksin was the bogey man that all sensible people should hate.

...

I also noticed a lot of new members recently who seem Ms. Yingluck fans for unclear clear reasons except 'she smiles nicely'. Many pro-Thaksin members seem to come and go (aka banned). Maybe older members just know how to avoid taunting pitfalls, trolls and other idiots? IMHO of course

i have also noticed that it is not a good idea to post a comment that contains several points. It seems people just select the one point that pushes their button and ignore the overall body of the comment, further modifying comments are ignored.

You say, "Many pro-Thaksin members seem to come and go (aka banned)" are you saying that the moderators here have an anti Thaksin bias.

[jdinasia]

I have noticed that the majority of members who attack Thaksin at every opportunity are the older members of TV, older in membership, not in age. This possibly reflects the number of years spent in Thailand, if so it suggests they are still trapped in the past, Thaksin was the bogey man that all sensible people should hate.

...

I also noticed a lot of new members recently who seem Ms. Yingluck fans for unclear clear reasons except 'she smiles nicely'. Many pro-Thaksin members seem to come and go (aka banned). Maybe older members just know how to avoid taunting pitfalls, trolls and other idiots? IMHO of course

i have also noticed that it is not a good idea to post a comment that contains several points. It seems people just select the one point that pushes their button and ignore the overall body of the comment, further modifying comments are ignored.

You say, "Many pro-Thaksin members seem to come and go (aka banned)" are you saying that the moderators here have an anti Thaksin bias.

HUH?

Maybe older members just know how to avoid taunting pitfalls, trolls and other idiots?

Seems to answer that question .....

People's posts get answered in the way that other people choose to answer them Sometimes they don't get answered at all!

[anterian]

That's a new argument -----

That people with experience posting on TVF and are anti-Thaksin are that way because they have been around for awhile. That being around for awhile means that they are thus out of touch with reality about Thailand's social systems/politics. and finally that (by extension) those that are newer members are less so inclined.

Since MANY of those of us that are anti-Thaksin regularly post about the problems with local/regional political machines surely shows that argument to be false. The old order of the S'noh, Newin, Barnharn, Suthep, etc etc etc political machines have been spoken out against by many members who have managed to both stay active and involved with TVF for years.

The argument that the dislike of Thaksin is solely about his corruption is also erroneous ..... Many people have many different reasons for not wanting to see him back. The foremost reason is the distinct possibility that it would kick off civil strife of an unprecedented order, in my mind. The second, for me, is that his method of buying up the local political machines as he did in the past made the political corruption orders of magnitude worse than it had been in the past. The current government attempting to make inroads into fighting corruption is a HUGE benefit to the country compared to the past. That it takes time to change a society is obvious.

There have been quite vocal Thaksin advocates on TVF over the years just as there have been anti-Thaksin posters. Some stay and post, some pretend to be moderate and only attack the current government and try to avoid Thaksin entirely, some (like folks on the other side) have drifted off .... and finally many have been banned (as have some antiThaksin posters) for violating the rules we all agree to when we join.

Personally, I would say that the system is changing in more than cosmetic ways. The checks and balances destroyed under TRT have been re-strengthened and people on all sides are at least openly talking about trying to combat corruption instead of just accepting it.The system in Thailand is changing, it is just changing slowly. I think most people would agree that education is a problem in Thailand .... that obviously extends to education about politics and corruption.

No, I am not suggesting that you are out of touch, far from it, what I am suggesting is that your emotions are still, so to speak, in the past. One thing clear in politics (anywhere), is that yesterday's enemy becomes today's ally, Newin's faction is a clear example of this.

I'm not sure if I come across as moderate, neutral or pro-Thaksin, perhaps you even see me as a troll trying to stir people up? Perhaps I'm all of these, I'm just really an observer, a spectator at a match between two teams. If one team makes a good move I cheer, if it makes a bad move I boo, either team. So far I have seen the Abhisit team make few good moves and fluffed a few more, so I tend to boo. But I have not seen the other team make any moves that deserve a cheer.

[jdinasia]

Someone recently said ......

i have also noticed that it is not a good idea to post a comment that contains several points. It seems people just select the one point that pushes their button and ignore the overall body of the comment, further modifying comments are ignored.

I think the appropriate answer to that statement was given --- in that people reply to what they want to .... but I love the irony

[warfie]

I have noticed that the majority of members who attack Thaksin at every opportunity are the older members of TV, older in membership, not in age. This possibly reflects the number of years spent in Thailand, if so it suggests they are still trapped in the past, Thaksin was the bogey man that all sensible people should hate.

...

I also noticed a lot of new members recently who seem Ms. Yingluck fans for unclear clear reasons except 'she smiles nicely'. Many pro-Thaksin members seem to come and go (aka banned). Maybe older members just know how to avoid taunting pitfalls, trolls and other idiots? IMHO of course

I tried being nicer than that ....

Why?

[rixalex]

I'm not sure if I come across as moderate, neutral or pro-Thaksin,

Wonder no more. You come across as pro-Thaksin.

[jdinasia]

I'm not sure if I come across as moderate, neutral or pro-Thaksin,

Wonder no more. You come across as pro-Thaksin.

I would concur.

Just the ~Thaksin is mellowing~ thing points to that imho, since it doesn't reflect (again imho) the vicious battle that Thaksin is part of in Thailand and his more than tacit support of the use of violence as evidenced by Seh Daeng (before his death.)

[anterian]

I'm not sure if I come across as moderate, neutral or pro-Thaksin,

Wonder no more. You come across as pro-Thaksin.

I would concur.

Just the ~Thaksin is mellowing~ thing points to that imho, since it doesn't reflect (again imho) the vicious battle that Thaksin is part of in Thailand and his more than tacit support of the use of violence as evidenced by Seh Daeng (before his death.)

Oh well there you go then, how soon can I expect to get banned?

I find it strange that one can become so disliked just for having different political viewpoints to the majority. It seems that any viewpoint out of step with the majority is never worthy of discussion. In an English pub one can have a heated political discussion and still buy each other pints. I guess many long time expats have adopted the Thai confrontational style of "debate", when does the hand gun appear? :jap:

Gentlemen, I leave you a clear field, you obviously feel you need it.

[lannarebirth]

I have noticed that the majority of members who attack Thaksin at every opportunity are the older members of TV, older in membership, not in age. This possibly reflects the number of years spent in Thailand, if so it suggests they are still trapped in the past, Thaksin was the bogey man that all sensible people should hate.

I was like that, I even joined the PAD marches against Thaksin prior to the coup. Since then I have got to know Thailand much better, I understand that Thaksin was simply a symptom, just like a boil is a symptom of blood poisoning. I not longer hate Thaksin, rather I hate the system that created him and allowed him to flourish.

That system still exists, any changes have been purely cosmetic. The army still lives off the fat of the land with ever increasing consumption of tax payers money. Most politicians, police and government officials are still as corrupt as ever. Vote buying and social division is still the normal order of the day. The Abhisit government nibbles at the problem but dare not take a healthy bite, it would be bitten back ten times harder.

If this system did not exist, did not flourish, then giving Thaksin an amnesty or not would become largely irrelevant, there would be no place for such as him in a clean, honest society. You members fear and hate him because you know Thailand is not a clean society, Thaksin would slot back in just where he left off.

Thaksin is not the real problem, it is the corrupt, feudal, pseudo- democratic society that is Thailand. Thailand is still in the era of "robber barons" , Thaksin was good at it but there are plenty more still operating.

Except for your basically giving Thaksin a free pass I agree with most of what you wrote. It is a society conditioned to let parasites feed upon itself and if one is lucky becomea parasite themselves. Thaksin is the worst parasite this nation has ever known. He's a good place to start as far as making things better.

[lannarebirth]

That's a new argument -----

That people with experience posting on TVF and are anti-Thaksin are that way because they have been around for awhile. That being around for awhile means that they are thus out of touch with reality about Thailand's social systems/politics. and finally that (by extension) those that are newer members are less so inclined.

Since MANY of those of us that are anti-Thaksin regularly post about the problems with local/regional political machines surely shows that argument to be false. The old order of the S'noh, Newin, Barnharn, Suthep, etc etc etc political machines have been spoken out against by many members who have managed to both stay active and involved with TVF for years.

The argument that the dislike of Thaksin is solely about his corruption is also erroneous ..... Many people have many different reasons for not wanting to see him back. The foremost reason is the distinct possibility that it would kick off civil strife of an unprecedented order, in my mind. The second, for me, is that his method of buying up the local political machines as he did in the past made the political corruption orders of magnitude worse than it had been in the past. The current government attempting to make inroads into fighting corruption is a HUGE benefit to the country compared to the past. That it takes time to change a society is obvious.

There have been quite vocal Thaksin advocates on TVF over the years just as there have been anti-Thaksin posters. Some stay and post, some pretend to be moderate and only attack the current government and try to avoid Thaksin entirely, some (like folks on the other side) have drifted off .... and finally many have been banned (as have some antiThaksin posters) for violating the rules we all agree to when we join.

Personally, I would say that the system is changing in more than cosmetic ways. The checks and balances destroyed under TRT have been re-strengthened and people on all sides are at least openly talking about trying to combat corruption instead of just accepting it.The system in Thailand is changing, it is just changing slowly. I think most people would agree that education is a problem in Thailand .... that obviously extends to education about politics and corruption.

I tend to ignore your posts as it is my perception that you enjoy the petty back and forthness too much, but I have to say, that's a good one.

[lannarebirth]

I'm not sure if I come across as moderate, neutral or pro-Thaksin,

Wonder no more. You come across as pro-Thaksin.

I would concur.

Just the ~Thaksin is mellowing~ thing points to that imho, since it doesn't reflect (again imho) the vicious battle that Thaksin is part of in Thailand and his more than tacit support of the use of violence as evidenced by Seh Daeng (before his death.)

Oh well there you go then, how soon can I expect to get banned?

I find it strange that one can become so disliked just for having different political viewpoints to the majority.

Not different per se, just extremely ignorant. Seemingly purposely so.

[anterian]

I have noticed that the majority of members who attack Thaksin at every opportunity are the older members of TV, older in membership, not in age. This possibly reflects the number of years spent in Thailand, if so it suggests they are still trapped in the past, Thaksin was the bogey man that all sensible people should hate.

I was like that, I even joined the PAD marches against Thaksin prior to the coup. Since then I have got to know Thailand much better, I understand that Thaksin was simply a symptom, just like a boil is a symptom of blood poisoning. I not longer hate Thaksin, rather I hate the system that created him and allowed him to flourish.

That system still exists, any changes have been purely cosmetic. The army still lives off the fat of the land with ever increasing consumption of tax payers money. Most politicians, police and government officials are still as corrupt as ever. Vote buying and social division is still the normal order of the day. The Abhisit government nibbles at the problem but dare not take a healthy bite, it would be bitten back ten times harder.

If this system did not exist, did not flourish, then giving Thaksin an amnesty or not would become largely irrelevant, there would be no place for such as him in a clean, honest society. You members fear and hate him because you know Thailand is not a clean society, Thaksin would slot back in just where he left off.

Thaksin is not the real problem, it is the corrupt, feudal, pseudo- democratic society that is Thailand. Thailand is still in the era of "robber barons" , Thaksin was good at it but there are plenty more still operating.

Except for your basically giving Thaksin a free pass I agree with most of what you wrote. It is a society conditioned to let parasites feed upon itself and if one is lucky becomea parasite themselves. Thaksin is the worst parasite this nation has ever known. He's a good place to start as far as making things better.

Did I give Thaksin a free pass? I said he becomes irrelevant. I grow some of my own vegetables, they get parasites, aphids, slugs, caterpillars, leaf eating beetles, I spray the lot, I don't let one off. Thaksin become irrelevant as a special case because he gets sprayed along with all the other parasites

[rixalex]

I'm not sure if I come across as moderate, neutral or pro-Thaksin,

Wonder no more. You come across as pro-Thaksin.

I would concur.

Just the ~Thaksin is mellowing~ thing points to that imho, since it doesn't reflect (again imho) the vicious battle that Thaksin is part of in Thailand and his more than tacit support of the use of violence as evidenced by Seh Daeng (before his death.)

Oh well there you go then, how soon can I expect to get banned?

I find it strange that one can become so disliked just for having different political viewpoints to the majority. It seems that any viewpoint out of step with the majority is never worthy of discussion. In an English pub one can have a heated political discussion and still buy each other pints. I guess many long time expats have adopted the Thai confrontational style of "debate", when does the hand gun appear? :jap:

Gentlemen, I leave you a clear field, you obviously feel you need it.

What makes you think you are disliked?

[lannarebirth]

I have noticed that the majority of members who attack Thaksin at every opportunity are the older members of TV, older in membership, not in age. This possibly reflects the number of years spent in Thailand, if so it suggests they are still trapped in the past, Thaksin was the bogey man that all sensible people should hate.

I was like that, I even joined the PAD marches against Thaksin prior to the coup. Since then I have got to know Thailand much better, I understand that Thaksin was simply a symptom, just like a boil is a symptom of blood poisoning. I not longer hate Thaksin, rather I hate the system that created him and allowed him to flourish.

That system still exists, any changes have been purely cosmetic. The army still lives off the fat of the land with ever increasing consumption of tax payers money. Most politicians, police and government officials are still as corrupt as ever. Vote buying and social division is still the normal order of the day. The Abhisit government nibbles at the problem but dare not take a healthy bite, it would be bitten back ten times harder.

If this system did not exist, did not flourish, then giving Thaksin an amnesty or not would become largely irrelevant, there would be no place for such as him in a clean, honest society. You members fear and hate him because you know Thailand is not a clean society, Thaksin would slot back in just where he left off.

Thaksin is not the real problem, it is the corrupt, feudal, pseudo- democratic society that is Thailand. Thailand is still in the era of "robber barons" , Thaksin was good at it but there are plenty more still operating.

Except for your basically giving Thaksin a free pass I agree with most of what you wrote. It is a society conditioned to let parasites feed upon itself and if one is lucky becomea parasite themselves. Thaksin is the worst parasite this nation has ever known. He's a good place to start as far as making things better.

Did I give Thaksin a free pass? I said he becomes irrelevant. I grow some of my own vegetables, they get parasites, aphids, slugs, caterpillars, leaf eating beetles, I spray the lot, I don't let one off. Thaksin become irrelevant as a special case because he gets sprayed along with all the other parasites

That isn't true at all. What's true is what Samak said, that Thaksin has so much money it is useless to fight him as he can buy everything and everyone in Thailand (paraphrased closely) . Create his own "dynasty" so to speak.

[rubl]

begin removed ...

You say, "Many pro-Thaksin members seem to come and go (aka banned)" are you saying that the moderators here have an anti Thaksin bias.

What I'm saying, and maybe saying badly, is that on average it seems outspoken pro-Thaksin members are more likely to offend against forum rules and therefor get banned. Most members may get a few warnings, but learn how to manoeuvre given the latitude of the rules. Friendly banter pub-style may be tolerated, may be removed as straying of topic. Some members are more likely to be offended by 'banterish' remarks than others.

May I conclude with the words once used by a member in a reply to a post of mine:

"have a lollipop" :-)

[anterian]

I have noticed that the majority of members who attack Thaksin at every opportunity are the older members of TV, older in membership, not in age. This possibly reflects the number of years spent in Thailand, if so it suggests they are still trapped in the past, Thaksin was the bogey man that all sensible people should hate.

I was like that, I even joined the PAD marches against Thaksin prior to the coup. Since then I have got to know Thailand much better, I understand that Thaksin was simply a symptom, just like a boil is a symptom of blood poisoning. I not longer hate Thaksin, rather I hate the system that created him and allowed him to flourish.

That system still exists, any changes have been purely cosmetic. The army still lives off the fat of the land with ever increasing consumption of tax payers money. Most politicians, police and government officials are still as corrupt as ever. Vote buying and social division is still the normal order of the day. The Abhisit government nibbles at the problem but dare not take a healthy bite, it would be bitten back ten times harder.

If this system did not exist, did not flourish, then giving Thaksin an amnesty or not would become largely irrelevant, there would be no place for such as him in a clean, honest society. You members fear and hate him because you know Thailand is not a clean society, Thaksin would slot back in just where he left off.

Thaksin is not the real problem, it is the corrupt, feudal, pseudo- democratic society that is Thailand. Thailand is still in the era of "robber barons" , Thaksin was good at it but there are plenty more still operating.

Except for your basically giving Thaksin a free pass I agree with most of what you wrote. It is a society conditioned to let parasites feed upon itself and if one is lucky becomea parasite themselves. Thaksin is the worst parasite this nation has ever known. He's a good place to start as far as making things better.

Did I give Thaksin a free pass? I said he becomes irrelevant. I grow some of my own vegetables, they get parasites, aphids, slugs, caterpillars, leaf eating beetles, I spray the lot, I don't let one off. Thaksin become irrelevant as a special case because he gets sprayed along with all the other parasites

That isn't true at all. What's true is what Samak said, that Thaksin has so much money it is useless to fight him as he can buy everything and everyone in Thailand (paraphrased closely) . Create his own "dynasty" so to speak.

If "Thaksin has so much money .... that he can buy everything and everyone in Thailand", then why hasn't he done so?

[lannarebirth]

Except for your basically giving Thaksin a free pass I agree with most of what you wrote. It is a society conditioned to let parasites feed upon itself and if one is lucky becomea parasite themselves. Thaksin is the worst parasite this nation has ever known. He's a good place to start as far as making things better.

Did I give Thaksin a free pass? I said he becomes irrelevant. I grow some of my own vegetables, they get parasites, aphids, slugs, caterpillars, leaf eating beetles, I spray the lot, I don't let one off. Thaksin become irrelevant as a special case because he gets sprayed along with all the other parasites

That isn't true at all. What's true is what Samak said, that Thaksin has so much money it is useless to fight him as he can buy everything and everyone in Thailand (paraphrased closely) . Create his own "dynasty" so to speak.

If "Thaksin has so much money .... that he can buy everything and everyone in Thailand", then why hasn't he done so?

Because he's a cheapskate. I think those judges were truly offended by that 2 million baht box of donuts.

[anterian]

To all the recent commentators on my postings, my apologies if I upset you with my postings, it is my instinct to play the "Devil's advocate", but it seems many of you resent this. Even as I write this Yahoo informs me that more comments are pouring in, I cannot cope, I do have a life to lead outside TV.

I am not as ill informed as many of you suggest, however some rather unique Thai laws prevent me from saying more. You do not face the same limitation.

[rubl]

To all the recent commentators on my postings, my apologies if I upset you with my postings, it is my instinct to play the "Devil's advocate", but it seems many of you resent this. Even as I write this Yahoo informs me that more comments are pouring in, I cannot cope, I do have a life to lead outside TV.

I am not as ill informed as many of you suggest, however some rather unique Thai laws prevent me from saying more. You do not face the same limitation.

Most of us have a life outside TV, I'd say, and quiet a few of us are posting from within Thailand and are subject to it's laws. Still we seem to be able to say, rather than I would if only I could :-)

Edited June 8, 2011 by rubl

[hyperdimension]

If "Thaksin has so much money .... that he can buy everything and everyone in Thailand", then why hasn't he done so?

He has tried, but he may have underestimated the monetary amounts required of some of his bribes. For some people, a couple of million may not be enough, whereas a few billion would be fine.

[Ricardo]

Did I give Thaksin a free pass? I said he becomes irrelevant. I grow some of my own vegetables, they get parasites, aphids, slugs, caterpillars, leaf eating beetles, I spray the lot, I don't let one off. Thaksin become irrelevant as a special case because he gets sprayed along with all the other parasites

Interesting example, and indeed Thaksin's last good-deed may well be to demonstrate, that not-even a former-PM is above the law ! That would certainly be helpful, although I suspect it's not quite what he had in mind, when he claimed to be fighting-for-justice !

I hope you don't get banned, I don't see why you need worry about that, you're not flaming other posters or trolling, which are the behaviours which tend to result in that end. Indeed I thought your expanded-view of what signs might be showing DL to be mellowing with age, was quite interesting, although I still didn't agree with your conclusion. Thanks for taking the time to post that ! :jap:

In a long post, there may be certain points which provoke a specific-response, that doesn't necessarily mean the responder is nitpicking, just that they want to respond to a particular point you've made. For example I almost replied to your saying, that Thaksin might hire mercenaries or instigate civil-war or start a bombing-campaign, if he wished to take more-direct action & provoke civil-war/disturbance. And I was tempted to respond that this had seemed to me to be his strategy last April/May.

I'd love to think that Thaksin might become irrelevant as you suggest, had he meant it when he said he had "quit Thai politics", and had he actually done so, then I would have found it more-convincing. But unfortunately I believe the evidence suggests otherwise. Whether it's due to his 'loss-of-face', or to his wish to return to a key role in Thai politics & make more money, I don't think he has yet decided to 'go quietly into the night'. As this whole 'political amnesty' thing demonstrates.

[anterian]

To all the recent commentators on my postings, my apologies if I upset you with my postings, it is my instinct to play the "Devil's advocate", but it seems many of you resent this. Even as I write this Yahoo informs me that more comments are pouring in, I cannot cope, I do have a life to lead outside TV.

I am not as ill informed as many of you suggest, however some rather unique Thai laws prevent me from saying more. You do not face the same limitation.

Most of us have a life outside TV, I'd say, and quiet a few of us are posting from within Thailand and are subject to it's laws. Still we seem to be able to say, rather than I would if only I could :-)

Even outside Thailand we are subject to its laws when we re-enter, as an American Thai discovered when he landed here recently. I believe he published a link to a banned book whilst in America 4 years ago. Incidentally any updates on his situation?

[rubl]

Even outside Thailand we are subject to its laws when we re-enter, as an American Thai discovered when he landed here recently. I believe he published a link to a banned book whilst in America 4 years ago. Incidentally any updates on his situation?

The original 2011-05-27 newsflash on prachatai had something like 'Thai with American citizenship arrested for LM, denied bail' (search prachatai3.info for 'american arrested'

no other, following newsflashes, just rehashing.

On TV a topic with 293 replies, latest from 2011-06-03 offering no new insight.

[anterian]

Even outside Thailand we are subject to its laws when we re-enter, as an American Thai discovered when he landed here recently. I believe he published a link to a banned book whilst in America 4 years ago. Incidentally any updates on his situation?

The original 2011-05-27 newsflash on prachatai had something like 'Thai with American citizenship arrested for LM, denied bail' (search prachatai3.info for 'american arrested'

no other, following newsflashes, just rehashing.

On TV a topic with 293 replies, latest from 2011-06-03 offering no new insight.

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4451480

Thanks for the link, it is frightening reading. It did make the news in England as well as America, the BBC had a few more details. However the point is I cannot defend many of my opinions as they involve the powers behind the Abhisit government. Obviously one can say anything you like about Thaksin, this is why the debate is unfair.

But enough, change the subject, I'm away for an hour of badminton

[Buchholz]

Obviously one can say anything you like about Thaksin

yeah right...

The seemingly obligatory lawsuit from the Thaksin camp...

Red-shirt leader Nattawut to file suit against former AEC member Kaewsan and multicolored shirt leader Tul for defaming Yingluck.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=473260&view=findpost&p=4474431

And now Pheu Thai Party Spokesman Promphong has filed a petition with the Election Commission against the two citing the Election Act for causing damage to Yingluck's popularity.

Furthermore, he will file another suit tomorrow with the police for defamation and violating the Computer Crime Act (the two have a Facebook page detailing their allegations).

.

[jdinasia]

Oh well there you go then, how soon can I expect to get banned?

I find it strange that one can become so disliked just for having different political viewpoints to the majority. It seems that any viewpoint out of step with the majority is never worthy of discussion. In an English pub one can have a heated political discussion and still buy each other pints. I guess many long time expats have adopted the Thai confrontational style of "debate", when does the hand gun appear? :jap:

Gentlemen, I leave you a clear field, you obviously feel you need it.

Why would you get banned, you take few enough personal shots at people (some, but few enough...)

Who says you are disliked? I don't like you, but I don't dislike you either. Your debating style when confronted needs some serious work but nobody is grading your ability past being able to get a point across ....

Honestly --- why would you be disliked? The only thing I know about you is that you lean pro-Thaksin, you are imho extremely politically naive regarding Thailand, and that you don't know squat about homosexuality in the animal kingdom None of that really makes you offensive --- occasionally you bring up points worth talking about and that makes you far more interesting than most of the Thaksin-leaning folks posting on here.

[wolfmanjack]

Even outside Thailand we are subject to its laws when we re-enter, as an American Thai discovered when he landed here recently. I believe he published a link to a banned book whilst in America 4 years ago. Incidentally any updates on his situation?

The original 2011-05-27 newsflash on prachatai had something like 'Thai with American citizenship arrested for LM, denied bail' (search prachatai3.info for 'american arrested'

no other, following newsflashes, just rehashing.

On TV a topic with 293 replies, latest from 2011-06-03 offering no new insight.

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4451480

Thanks for the link, it is frightening reading. It did make the news in England as well as America, the BBC had a few more details. However the point is I cannot defend many of my opinions as they involve the powers behind the Abhisit government. Obviously one can say anything you like about Thaksin, this is why the debate is unfair.

But enough, change the subject, I'm away for an hour of badminton

Likewise we can not repeat the propaganda the red shirts are spewing.

[anterian]

Oh well there you go then, how soon can I expect to get banned?

I find it strange that one can become so disliked just for having different political viewpoints to the majority. It seems that any viewpoint out of step with the majority is never worthy of discussion. In an English pub one can have a heated political discussion and still buy each other pints. I guess many long time expats have adopted the Thai confrontational style of "debate", when does the hand gun appear? :jap:

Gentlemen, I leave you a clear field, you obviously feel you need it.

Why would you get banned, you take few enough personal shots at people (some, but few enough...)

Who says you are disliked? I don't like you, but I don't dislike you either. Your debating style when confronted needs some serious work but nobody is grading your ability past being able to get a point across ....

Honestly --- why would you be disliked? The only thing I know about you is that you lean pro-Thaksin, you are imho extremely politically naive regarding Thailand, and that you don't know squat about homosexuality in the animal kingdom None of that really makes you offensive --- occasionally you bring up points worth talking about and that makes you far more interesting than most of the Thaksin-leaning folks posting on here.

Thank you for those few kind words. If you check back in this thread I have had about 5 or 6 people all argue with me simultaneously, you clearly all know each other well and it had all the appearance of a coordinated attack. only one person seemed to understand my points and even he had a sting in his tail

So yes my debating style gets a bit ragged when debating one on five, I guess I'm a bit old fashioned I'm more used to a scholarly debate one on one.

I am extremely politically naive is your opinion, but that is just your opinion. As to homosexuality in the animal kingdom, well again you base your assumptions on limited knowledge. Suffice to say that I used to lecture at university on evolution and anthropology, one of my most popular units with students was entitled "Human sexual strategies". As I said to you elsewhere, a true teacher does not talk down to people, he is not in the business of impressing them with his knowledge, rather he is seeking to increase their knowledge.

Now you may see this comment as a personal shot at you, to use your words, that is not my intention, it is merely an attempt to clear the air between us. I do not enjoy intentionally irritating you, or anyone else, but I do have my own viewpoint on things and will never join the herd just to be one of the boys.

[animatic]

And what is this discussion about again? I have long since forgotten....