Thai PM Abhisit Slams Rivals' Thaksin 'Whitewash'

[metisdead]

A post containing a contentious uncited quote has been removed. A series of replies, some of them baiting, have also been removed.

[rubl]

Dear samurai, sorry for picking parts out of the posts, but hopefully not out of context. See the original post here

"- The current coalition government includes parties nobody voted for in 2007."

and

"If you call only PTP the unelected party, but not Chart Thai Phattana, Bhum Jai Thai, Matubhum Party and Social Action Party it seems that it is rather your "logic" that is flawed by bias here."

Correct, a few parties were not present in the last general elections. The MP's were though. Some MP's were even elected later in by-elections. So whereas some parties were not voted for, all MP's were voted for. Some 'not voted for' parties were in the PM Abhisit government, some in the opposition.

Forgot to add: The possibility for elected MP's to move to another party before a new general elections is bound to various rules in the Elections Laws. I have no idea how that effects either constituency or party list MP's. Someone else may be able to provide details on that?

Edited June 12, 2011 by rubl

[MrChangers]

It is a blanket amnesty, so the army that killed unarmed civillians, the government that ordered the killings or are complicit in the cover up etc will also be included in the amnesty, Abhsitis comment "He should come back and serve his sentence as any Thai would have to." will hopefully come back to haunt him and his cronies in the coming months as charges are rightly laid against them.

Thaksin is convicted by a legal court and his absence proves his guilt. Abhisit is a victim of your attempts to apologise for the red shirts - theres a difference. Please provide proof of the killings ordered by the Government, (you can ignore the 30 killed by the black shirts on thaksins orders). Please provide proof that the army killed unarmed citizens. Those of us on planet earth would LOVE to read it!!

(you can ignore the 30 killed by the black shirts on thaksins orders)

Please provide proof as I would love to read it.

So in your book bullets can do U turns?? Was the army firing grenades from the red shirt camp in Sillom -? Try and refute that if you can - EVERYONE including red shirts knows the red shirts were responsible for some of the deaths in the protest. Girly cries of "prove it, prove it!!" are the tired sad last throws of an indefensible position, take some advice - STOP trying to defend indefensible positions!!! Or you might find someone asking for proof that the army killed ALL 93 including their own people!!! ridiculous come back!! Before you state that MY post contained a request for proof - please note that this was PAR of an argument not the SOLE argument

Please try to argue properly. Proof was asked for in the previous question and I have asked for proof to the statement made. Shouts of "Girly cries" when using "Everyone says ...." is a bit playground. You ask for facts and so do I so please place them before your peers and do not try to slander me when I ask a question. I'm not interested in your opinion, I like facts, hard concrete facts. Deliver these and then you will have some credibility.

[Ricardo]

Which is the expected line they would pull when touring the Red Areas, in a bid to get more votes...

Good point.I suppose that's also why Democrats canvassing in Isaan are pressing for Thaksin to receive an amnesty.

I find that a little unexpected, do you have a source for it, please ? :jap:

One seems to have entered an irony free zone.

Sorry, since I didn't notice any 'smilie', I thought you were claiming it as a fact, when you said "Democrats canvassing in Isaan are pressing for Thaksin to receive an amnesty".

And this being Thai politics, which are beyond anything I've ever seen in any other country, I thought that it might just be true !

I guess the joke's on me, then.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Ricardo

[anotheruser]

It is a blanket amnesty, so the army that killed unarmed civillians, the government that ordered the killings or are complicit in the cover up etc will also be included in the amnesty, Abhsitis comment "He should come back and serve his sentence as any Thai would have to." will hopefully come back to haunt him and his cronies in the coming months as charges are rightly laid against them.

Perhaps you were not here when all the trouble happened. There is documented evidence that the red shirts were armed. Where did you ever get the idea they were unarmed?

In no way did the Government order the army to kill people. They were charged with stopping a illegal seizure of Municipal and private property. It was unfortunate that the criminals were armed and choose to fight rather than obey the law.

I am quite sure that if you were to stop and consider that if it was your property they illegally seized and turned into a garbage dump you might have a different out look on the event.

For myself I am a retiree living in Thailand. I am a farong and can not vote. I stand to gain absolutely nothing by trying to change reality. This allows me to take a honest look at events. For instance I supported the Red Shirt when they had there initial rally after about ten days it was abundantly clear that they did not support there ideas. They did not want democracy they wanted a dictatorship under there rule. Now if I had any thing to gain by there actions I might not have seen that I would have been looking at my personal gain.

Hey??? Did we forget the Yellow shirts??????? I had friends stuck at the airport and they couldn't leave. But I guess that was all right to do. because they are part of the ELITE of Bangkok. RIGHT?????????????

Actually most of us that do not like thaksin think the yellow shirts that took the airport should go to jail also. Every person that can be identified that took control of the airport should spend time in jail. Every person that struck Abhisits car should spend time in jail every person that attacked the riot police or army lines or do not cross lines should spend time in jail. Every person that can be identified burning city halls should spend time in jail. Every Yellow or red leader that stood on stage and advocated violence should spend time in jail.

I really don't care but sort of wonder who you can claim to speak for other than yourself?

[whybother]

Actually most of us that do not like thaksin think the yellow shirts that took the airport should go to jail also. Every person that can be identified that took control of the airport should spend time in jail. Every person that struck Abhisits car should spend time in jail every person that attacked the riot police or army lines or do not cross lines should spend time in jail. Every person that can be identified burning city halls should spend time in jail. Every Yellow or red leader that stood on stage and advocated violence should spend time in jail.

I really don't care but sort of wonder who you can claim to speak for other than yourself?

I agree with wolfman, and can think of a few other regular posts that would too.

[lannarebirth]

Perhaps you were not here when all the trouble happened. There is documented evidence that the red shirts were armed. Where did you ever get the idea they were unarmed?

In no way did the Government order the army to kill people. They were charged with stopping a illegal seizure of Municipal and private property. It was unfortunate that the criminals were armed and choose to fight rather than obey the law.

I am quite sure that if you were to stop and consider that if it was your property they illegally seized and turned into a garbage dump you might have a different out look on the event.

For myself I am a retiree living in Thailand. I am a farong and can not vote. I stand to gain absolutely nothing by trying to change reality. This allows me to take a honest look at events. For instance I supported the Red Shirt when they had there initial rally after about ten days it was abundantly clear that they did not support there ideas. They did not want democracy they wanted a dictatorship under there rule. Now if I had any thing to gain by there actions I might not have seen that I would have been looking at my personal gain.

Hey??? Did we forget the Yellow shirts??????? I had friends stuck at the airport and they couldn't leave. But I guess that was all right to do. because they are part of the ELITE of Bangkok. RIGHT?????????????

Actually most of us that do not like thaksin think the yellow shirts that took the airport should go to jail also. Every person that can be identified that took control of the airport should spend time in jail. Every person that struck Abhisits car should spend time in jail every person that attacked the riot police or army lines or do not cross lines should spend time in jail. Every person that can be identified burning city halls should spend time in jail. Every Yellow or red leader that stood on stage and advocated violence should spend time in jail.

I really don't care but sort of wonder who you can claim to speak for other than yourself?

Though I'm not a Thai citizen, he speaks for me. I agree with every word he said.

[hyperdimension]

Actually most of us that do not like thaksin think the yellow shirts that took the airport should go to jail also. Every person that can be identified that took control of the airport should spend time in jail. Every person that struck Abhisits car should spend time in jail every person that attacked the riot police or army lines or do not cross lines should spend time in jail. Every person that can be identified burning city halls should spend time in jail. Every Yellow or red leader that stood on stage and advocated violence should spend time in jail.

I really don't care but sort of wonder who you can claim to speak for other than yourself?

I agree with wolfman, and can think of a few other regular posts that would too.

I agree with wolfmanjack too.

anotheruser, what don't you agree with?

[wolfmanjack]

Actually most of us that do not like thaksin think the yellow shirts that took the airport should go to jail also. Every person that can be identified that took control of the airport should spend time in jail. Every person that struck Abhisits car should spend time in jail every person that attacked the riot police or army lines or do not cross lines should spend time in jail. Every person that can be identified burning city halls should spend time in jail. Every Yellow or red leader that stood on stage and advocated violence should spend time in jail.

I really don't care but sort of wonder who you can claim to speak for other than yourself?

You are right. I should have clarified that based on the people I have spoken with and most of the posts i have read indicate that most of us are of this opinion.

[wolfmanjack]

Thanks for confirming it for me guys. :jap:

[Ricardo]

Actually most of us that do not like thaksin think the yellow shirts that took the airport should go to jail also. Every person that can be identified that took control of the airport should spend time in jail. Every person that struck Abhisits car should spend time in jail every person that attacked the riot police or army lines or do not cross lines should spend time in jail. Every person that can be identified burning city halls should spend time in jail. Every Yellow or red leader that stood on stage and advocated violence should spend time in jail.

I really don't care but sort of wonder who you can claim to speak for other than yourself?

I agree with wolfman, and can think of a few other regular posts that would too.

+ 1

Justice for all, not blanket amnesty, is the way forward.

[warfie]

Actually most of us that do not like thaksin think the yellow shirts that took the airport should go to jail also. Every person that can be identified that took control of the airport should spend time in jail. Every person that struck Abhisits car should spend time in jail every person that attacked the riot police or army lines or do not cross lines should spend time in jail. Every person that can be identified burning city halls should spend time in jail. Every Yellow or red leader that stood on stage and advocated violence should spend time in jail.

I really don't care but sort of wonder who you can claim to speak for other than yourself?

I agree with wolfman, and can think of a few other regular posts that would too.

I agree with wolfmanjack too.

anotheruser, what don't you agree with?

I will add my voice too, I agree, everyone who has 'done wrong' should be punished accordingly.

I will add that although the airport closure hurt us more, I still find the Red Shirt actions more deplorable.

P.S. I don't care who is in power so long as they do a good job.

[MunterHunter]

Giving people Amnesty is not the right way to move forward, IMHO, everyone (Red, Yellow, Brown, Blue, Pink or Orange) should pay for their crimes, perhaps if we adopted this approach people would be less likely to break the law in order to prove their point (i.e. Illegal demonstrations, storming airports, burning buildings etc)

If you feel so passionately about your cause that you wish to resort to illegal activities then you should feel passionate enough to accept the punishment handed down by the courts.

Only once Thailand stops allowing herself to be held to ransom by some political group can the country really begin to move forward, if the country allows this kind of behaviour then it will remain in the never ending circle. If the reds win, the yellows will storm the airport/hold illegal protests, if the Reds opposition wins then the reds will do the same again.. its a no win situation.

Allow the election to progress lawfully, regardless of outcome, and punish all of those who broke the law along the way... only then will people realize they must respect the law and use the power of voting to express their opinion.

[wolfmanjack]

Giving people Amnesty is not the right way to move forward, IMHO, everyone (Red, Yellow, Brown, Blue, Pink or Orange) should pay for their crimes, perhaps if we adopted this approach people would be less likely to break the law in order to prove their point (i.e. Illegal demonstrations, storming airports, burning buildings etc)

If you feel so passionately about your cause that you wish to resort to illegal activities then you should feel passionate enough to accept the punishment handed down by the courts.

Only once Thailand stops allowing herself to be held to ransom by some political group can the country really begin to move forward, if the country allows this kind of behaviour then it will remain in the never ending circle. If the reds win, the yellows will storm the airport/hold illegal protests, if the Reds opposition wins then the reds will do the same again.. its a no win situation.

Allow the election to progress lawfully, regardless of outcome, and punish all of those who broke the law along the way... only then will people realize they must respect the law and use the power of voting to express their opinion.

Right. The leaders inciting violence and the people in the crowds carrying weapons. there are a a lot of youtube videos showing people with guns, knives, throwing rocks etc etc. They should be identified from these videos and prosecuted. Every leader that got on stage and advocated violence should serve an even longer sentence. Every yellow that entered the airport illegally should be tried right along with the reds that rioted. Whoever did not stick to peaceful protest methods should be prosecuted no matter how high or low they are.

[Pi Sek]

I will add my voice too, I agree, everyone who has 'done wrong' should be punished accordingly.

I will add that although the airport closure hurt us more, I still find the Red Shirt actions more deplorable.

P.S. I don't care who is in power so long as they do a good job.

Easier said than done though, isn't it? It's not unreasonable to sit and peacefully protest in an airport just as it's not unreasonable to sit and peacefully protest in the most busy crossroads of the capital - so long as they're not stopping anyone else from going about their business. Both protests crossed the line, but you can't say everyone in the airport was guilty of shutting it down nor can you say that everyone at Rajprasong was setting up checkpoints or shooting weapons and the like.

Nonetheless, I still agree with wolfman, and you, too. Sorry for cutting out everyone else who agreed with him

On the last bit, that's a very subjective thing to say... what is good for the country is not necessarily good for individuals and vice versa.