Coup Leader Willing To Join Government Of Yingluck

[Ricardo]

You said the word, scholars ! People who never had the courage to step in the real world.

People who make your every day world, people who grow your food, people who cook it, people who build the house you live in, people who drive you around, real people, they all vote for Thaksin.

Then you have the civil servants, scholars ... IMO they shouldn't have the right to vote. As their name says it so well, they are just servants.

I think you forgot the 'smilie', after the last line about civil-servants or educated-scholars not having the right to vote, in this Thaksin-led workers' democratic-paradise you describe ? Did you ever consider joining the PAD/NPP ?

And if almost-everybody in the whole country votes for Thaksin, or whoever is his nominee or clone this week, why don't they poll 90% of the proportional-vote ?

The answer is surely that certain areas of the country tended to support him, at least until he pissed-off Newin, but that other equally-large parts of the country don't support him ? And there is thus a country where two large minority-parties will continue to be re-elected, but no clear outcome can emerge, so it's coalition-politics as-usual.

Hence this former coup-leader expressing his willingness to deal with anyone, if it enables his tiny party to get a few scraps, thrown their way.

[jdinasia]

You said the word, scholars ! People who never had the courage to step in the real world.

People who make your every day world, people who grow your food, people who cook it, people who build the house you live in, people who drive you around, real people, they all vote for Thaksin.

Then you have the civil servants, scholars ... IMO they shouldn't have the right to vote. As their name says it so well, they are just servants.

I think you forgot the 'smilie', after the last line about civil-servants or educated-scholars not having the right to vote, in this Thaksin-led workers' democratic-paradise you describe ? Did you ever consider joining the PAD/NPP ?

And if almost-everybody in the whole country votes for Thaksin, or whoever is his nominee or clone this week, why don't they poll 90% of the proportional-vote ?

The answer is surely that certain areas of the country tended to support him, at least until he pissed-off Newin, but that other equally-large parts of the country don't support him ? And there is thus a country where two large minority-parties will continue to be re-elected, but no clear outcome can emerge, so it's coalition-politics as-usual.

Hence this former coup-leader expressing his willingness to deal with anyone, if it enables his tiny party to get a few scraps, thrown their way.

BTW --- the people that cook my food -- don't vote for Thaksin .. neither does my driver .. I assume some that grow food do and some that grow my food don't. I don't know who built the house I live in so I can't suggest how they would vote, but having seen work crews up here I would suggest the owner of the construction company would vote BJT and that the laborers were ineligible to vote for the same reason I am. My driver, as a matter of fact will not vote PTP or NPP/Heaven and Earth --- he might vote Dem but says he hasn't decided. Even here in Chiang Mai it isn't a 100% Thaksin area and many people seem to think that if he comes back it will mean bad things will happen. Jurgen parroting the PAD (with the opposite take) really makes you wonder how important democracy ever will be in Thailand in the very same way that the vote-buying and graft makes you wonder.

[MaiChai]

Taksin has been very vindictive in the past when he is crossed. At least Abhisit is a reasonable man.

Thus begs the question, why would anyone want to see a despot like him come back to power? It will be a major step back for Thailand. Back to the dark days of Taksins iron fist rule. Anyone remember those days or have your memories been sweetened up by wearing those rose tinted glasses all the time? He was like a one man government; everyone does what Taksin says, irrespective of the law (definition of a dictatorship).

[Siripon]

Sonthi is a muslim and his party is aimed almost entirely at muslims, promoting their interests, claiming they can get big contracts in the Middle East for Thai workers, so it makes no sense to be in the Opposition to further those interests. Also being in a Pheua Thai government could well be useful for Sonthi personally when it's time to discuss the amnesty.

[lannarebirth]

Taksin has been very vindictive in the past when he is crossed. At least Abhisit is a reasonable man.

Thus begs the question, why would anyone want to see a despot like him come back to power? It will be a major step back for Thailand. Back to the dark days of Taksins iron fist rule. Anyone remember those days or have your memories been sweetened up by wearing those rose tinted glasses all the time? He was like a one man government; everyone does what Taksin says, irrespective of the law (definition of a dictatorship).

Remembering Thaksin:

http://pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th/~ppasuk/afterthaksinsavalanche.pdf

Immediately after the poll result, Thaksin announced

that provinces which had voted heavily for TRT would be rewarded in the allocation of

government spending. This, he explained, was a matter of gratitude. In Thailand’s old

political culture, a patron must always look after his own people first. This principle is

now being elevated to national policy

[473geo]

Taksin has been very vindictive in the past when he is crossed. At least Abhisit is a reasonable man.

Thus begs the question, why would anyone want to see a despot like him come back to power? It will be a major step back for Thailand. Back to the dark days of Taksins iron fist rule. Anyone remember those days or have your memories been sweetened up by wearing those rose tinted glasses all the time? He was like a one man government; everyone does what Taksin says, irrespective of the law (definition of a dictatorship).

Remembering Thaksin:

http://pioneer.netse...nsavalanche.pdf

Immediately after the poll result, Thaksin announced

that provinces which had voted heavily for TRT would be rewarded in the allocation of

government spending. This, he explained, was a matter of gratitude. In Thailand's old

political culture, a patron must always look after his own people first. This principle is

now being elevated to national policy

As has been the unstated case in governments through out the globe for years........

[SteeleJoe]

Asked whether he feared that Pheu Thai may take revenge against him if the party formed the next government, Sonthi said: "I am not afraid because I was not wrong. There are rules of law in this country."

There are rules of law in this country, but it seems that nobody's following them. WTFC? :jap:

Is that "Rules of Law" or "Rule of Law"? A crucial difference between the two -- and it's the latter we don't have and have long needed (we've got plenty of rules and laws).

Which the previous post has inadvertently summed up.

Edited June 12, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[473geo]

Taksin has been very vindictive in the past when he is crossed. At least Abhisit is a reasonable man.

Thus begs the question, why would anyone want to see a despot like him come back to power? It will be a major step back for Thailand. Back to the dark days of Taksins iron fist rule. Anyone remember those days or have your memories been sweetened up by wearing those rose tinted glasses all the time? He was like a one man government; everyone does what Taksin says, irrespective of the law (definition of a dictatorship).

A PT coalition would assess any amnesty plans and ensure any decisions were in the best interests of the country, the smaller parties are an enhancement to the control mechanism, this is why the coup leader can be aligned to PT....perhaps a stabilising influence.......what many here appear to be concentrating their comments on is a PT outright victory...........

[Ricardo]

Taksin has been very vindictive in the past when he is crossed. At least Abhisit is a reasonable man.

Thus begs the question, why would anyone want to see a despot like him come back to power? It will be a major step back for Thailand. Back to the dark days of Taksins iron fist rule. Anyone remember those days or have your memories been sweetened up by wearing those rose tinted glasses all the time? He was like a one man government; everyone does what Taksin says, irrespective of the law (definition of a dictatorship).

Quite. I can recall caretaker-PM Thaksin saying to reporters, during the summer of 2006, that they need not ask questions of his cabinet-members, since he was the one who made all the decisions & did all the work.

He was clearly gradually 'losing the plot', admittedly under great pressure, at that time, hence the widespread relief when the military did press the 're-set' button. Going by the way 'true democracy' seems to operate, within PPP and now PTP, he clearly hasn't improved much since then.

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[whybother]

A PT coalition would assess any amnesty plans and ensure any decisions were in the best interests of the country, the smaller parties are an enhancement to the control mechanism, this is why the coup leader can be aligned to PT....perhaps a stabilising influence.......what many here appear to be concentrating their comments on is a PT outright victory...........

And you know that how???

If they were worried about the best interests of the country, they wouldn't even bring up the amnesty plan.

[jayboy]

BTW --- the people that cook my food -- don't vote for Thaksin .. neither does my driver .. I assume some that grow food do and some that grow my food don't. I don't know who built the house I live in so I can't suggest how they would vote, but having seen work crews up here I would suggest the owner of the construction company would vote BJT and that the laborers were ineligible to vote for the same reason I am. My driver, as a matter of fact will not vote PTP or NPP/Heaven and Earth --- he might vote Dem but says he hasn't decided. Even here in Chiang Mai it isn't a 100% Thaksin area and many people seem to think that if he comes back it will mean bad things will happen. Jurgen parroting the PAD (with the opposite take) really makes you wonder how important democracy ever will be in Thailand in the very same way that the vote-buying and graft makes you wonder.

Always good to have first hand information from Thai Visa members.From this post we learn that Chiangmai is not in fact a PTP stronghold even though one would like to know how he knows the political preferences of those who cook his food.

[JurgenG]

Immediately after the poll result, Thaksin announced

that provinces which had voted heavily for TRT would be rewarded in the allocation of

government spending. This, he explained, was a matter of gratitude. In Thailand's old

political culture, a patron must always look after his own people first. This principle is

now being elevated to national policy

What is the problem ? Of course when elected, someone first duty is to thank people who vote for him. Do you know any leader in the world, who, once elected, start by promoting policies favorable to people who didn't vote for him ?

I can understand that some people are not happy with the possibility of Thaksin's return, but please try to make sense.

Edited June 12, 2011 by JurgenG

[473geo]

A PT coalition would assess any amnesty plans and ensure any decisions were in the best interests of the country, the smaller parties are an enhancement to the control mechanism, this is why the coup leader can be aligned to PT....perhaps a stabilising influence.......what many here appear to be concentrating their comments on is a PT outright victory...........

And you know that how???

If they were worried about the best interests of the country, they wouldn't even bring up the amnesty plan.

You didn't understand the following explanation in my post?

[whybother]

Immediately after the poll result, Thaksin announced

that provinces which had voted heavily for TRT would be rewarded in the allocation of

government spending. This, he explained, was a matter of gratitude. In Thailand's old

political culture, a patron must always look after his own people first. This principle is

now being elevated to national policy

What is the problem ? Of course when elected, someone first duty is to thank people who vote for him. Do you know any leader in the world, who, once elected, start by promoting policies favorable to people who didn't vote for him ?

I can understand that some people are not happy with the possibility of Thaksin's return, but please try to make sense.

What country do you come from? In my country, the new government usually starts by working on policies to improve conditions for the whole country. They don't specifically pick out electorates where they did well to "thank them" with extra government spending.

[lannarebirth]

Immediately after the poll result, Thaksin announced

that provinces which had voted heavily for TRT would be rewarded in the allocation of

government spending. This, he explained, was a matter of gratitude. In Thailand's old

political culture, a patron must always look after his own people first. This principle is

now being elevated to national policy

What is the problem ? Of course when elected, someone first duty is to thank people who vote for him. Do you know any leader in the world, who, once elected, start by promoting policies favorable to people who didn't vote for him ?

I can understand that some people are not happy with the possibility of Thaksin's return, but please try to make sense.

What country do you come from? In my country, the new government usually starts by working on policies to improve conditions for the whole country. They don't specifically pick out electorates where they did well to "thank them" with extra government spending.

National governments work for the benefit of all citizens. It is the local representatives, whether they form part of the government in power or not who try to pass legislation of benefit to solely local constituencies. I guess he didn't read the rest of the article.

[JurgenG]

Immediately after the poll result, Thaksin announced

that provinces which had voted heavily for TRT would be rewarded in the allocation of

government spending. This, he explained, was a matter of gratitude. In Thailand's old

political culture, a patron must always look after his own people first. This principle is

now being elevated to national policy

What is the problem ? Of course when elected, someone first duty is to thank people who vote for him. Do you know any leader in the world, who, once elected, start by promoting policies favorable to people who didn't vote for him ?

I can understand that some people are not happy with the possibility of Thaksin's return, but please try to make sense.

What country do you come from? In my country, the new government usually starts by working on policies to improve conditions for the whole country. They don't specifically pick out electorates where they did well to "thank them" with extra government spending.

Your naivety baffles me.

Are you familiar with the term "pork barrel" ? It's not a thai word ...

[kropotkin]

Immediately after the poll result, Thaksin announced

that provinces which had voted heavily for TRT would be rewarded in the allocation of

government spending. This, he explained, was a matter of gratitude. In Thailand's old

political culture, a patron must always look after his own people first. This principle is

now being elevated to national policy

What is the problem ? Of course when elected, someone first duty is to thank people who vote for him. Do you know any leader in the world, who, once elected, start by promoting policies favorable to people who didn't vote for him ?

I can understand that some people are not happy with the possibility of Thaksin's return, but please try to make sense.

What country do you come from? In my country, the new government usually starts by working on policies to improve conditions for the whole country. They don't specifically pick out electorates where they did well to "thank them" with extra government spending.

YOUR country?

Let me guess, your country is a democracy?

a western democracy.

Or should i quote the famous apologist saying: " it is their culture, do not interfere"?

[JurgenG]

National governments work for the benefit of all citizens.

National governments work for the benefit of ... people who elect them. Basically they will do what ever it takes to be re elected next term.

If I was a bit more cynical, I'd say that National governments work for the benefit of ... whoever is in charge at the moment.

I found it's the major problem with people who support the PAD and the democrats, they are completely disconnected with reality. They have very high ideals, they should be praised for that, but they are completely disconnected from the real world. So they are easy prey for real bad guys like Sondhi who takes advantage of their naivety to advance their very selfish agenda

Edited June 12, 2011 by JurgenG

[lannarebirth]

National governments work for the benefit of all citizens.

National governments work for the benefit of ... people who elect them. Basically they will do what ever it takes to be re elected next term.

If I was a bit more cynical, I'd say that National governments work for the benefit of ... whoever is in charge at the moment.

I found it's the major problem with people who support the PAD and the democrats, they are completely disconnected with reality. They have very high ideals, they should be praised for that, but they are completely disconnected from the real world so they are easy prey for real bad guys like Sondhi who takes advantage of their naivety to advance their very selfish agenda

Well I don't like the PAD nor Sondhi, whom I've never met. I have met Thaksin's wife and two of his sisters however and consequently like them even less.

[JurgenG]

Well I don't like the PAD nor Sondhi, whom I've never met. I have met Thaksin's wife and two of his sisters however and consequently like them even less.

Let me guess, they didn't show you proper respect ?

Or maybe they didn't even acknowledge your existence ?

I'm so sorry !

[kropotkin]

National governments work for the benefit of all citizens.

National governments work for the benefit of ... people who elect them. Basically they will do what ever it takes to be re elected next term.

If I was a bit more cynical, I'd say that National governments work for the benefit of ... whoever is in charge at the moment.

I found it's the major problem with people who support the PAD and the democrats, they are completely disconnected with reality. They have very high ideals, they should be praised for that, but they are completely disconnected from the real world so they are easy prey for real bad guys like Sondhi who takes advantage of their naivety to advance their very selfish agenda

i agree 100%.

and i hope that you agree that the things you said equally apply to The Fugitive and his party.

that would make 2 non extremists on this forum - not much, but it would be a start......

[JurgenG]

^ Sorry, I support the "fugitive"

But it doesn't mean I'm an extremist.

It's only business, Thaksin is good for my business. Or more exactly the PAD is bad for my business and the democrats don't have what it takes to keep them under control.

Nothing personal.

[lannarebirth]

^ Sorry, I support the "fugitive"

But it doesn't mean I'm an extremist.

It's only business, Thaksin is good for my business. Or more exactly the PAD is bad for my business and the democrats don't have what it takes to keep them under control.

Nothing personal.

He's good for mine as well, at least for a while, but he's a pretty divisive force for the majority of Thais. I once saw him as the sand that irritated the oyster that could create the pearl, but I now see him as a megalomaniacal madman.

[kropotkin]

so, only 1 non extremist left - not that the extremists would agree......

[TAWP]

Immediately after the poll result, Thaksin announced

that provinces which had voted heavily for TRT would be rewarded in the allocation of

government spending. This, he explained, was a matter of gratitude. In Thailand's old

political culture, a patron must always look after his own people first. This principle is

now being elevated to national policy

What is the problem ? Of course when elected, someone first duty is to thank people who vote for him. Do you know any leader in the world, who, once elected, start by promoting policies favorable to people who didn't vote for him ?

I can understand that some people are not happy with the possibility of Thaksin's return, but please try to make sense.

That is not how most democracies work.

Infact, if such an idea was even uttered in my home-country that person would have to resign their seat from the public outcry.

[TAWP]

^ Sorry, I support the "fugitive"

But it doesn't mean I'm an extremist.

It's only business, Thaksin is good for my business. Or more exactly the PAD is bad for my business and the democrats don't have what it takes to keep them under control.

Nothing personal.

So you think only about yourself and not how it will affect the Thai people?

Thanks for atleast being honest in your selfishness.

[jdinasia]

National governments work for the benefit of all citizens.

National governments work for the benefit of ... people who elect them. Basically they will do what ever it takes to be re elected next term.

If I was a bit more cynical, I'd say that National governments work for the benefit of ... whoever is in charge at the moment.

I found it's the major problem with people who support the PAD and the democrats, they are completely disconnected with reality. They have very high ideals, they should be praised for that, but they are completely disconnected from the real world so they are easy prey for real bad guys like Sondhi who takes advantage of their naivety to advance their very selfish agenda

Well I don't like the PAD nor Sondhi, whom I've never met. I have met Thaksin's wife and two of his sisters however and consequently like them even less.

If we want to talk about a "disconnect" from reality .. it would be people that still suggest that supporting the Dems = any support for the PAD. The PAD hasn't been supportive of the current government from almost the beginning of its tenure.

The PAD was a useful inconvenience to the Dems for awhile (leading into the dissolution of PPP) because the PAD prevented a return of Thaksin through the PPP trying to Whitewash his crimes. After the Dems were elected by parliament to run the government the usefulness of the PAD went away. That PAD members have been convicted and sentenced would suggest this, but it can't be drawn in an honest parallel because the govt does not equal the courts.

The national government should represent the citizenry and at least this one attempts to represent every one. Thaksin's represented only those that voted for TRT/PPP and even then stole 95% for every 5% given to their electorate.

Jurgen --- when you stated that scholars shouldn't be allowed a vote --- and when you ignore the abuses of Thaksin --- it does make you an extremist. I would be labeled in a similar way because of my views regarding Thaksin, but I think I can back my views up with facts and not erroneous claims to things like Thaksin is better for foreign investment --- (particularly since it went up after Thaksin and his proxy parties were gone. In fact, the SET seems to have taken a slide in the recent days due to a fear from foreign investment that there would be more violence due to PTP and the reds.

I also am in business in Thailand and neither party benefits my business to any measurable degree (or rather any party would benefit the business to about the same degree) but more red-shirt violence will do great damage to the company. The violence factor is the only thing that threatens my business. Changing corporate income-tax won't make a dent one way or the other --- airport closures won't change things ---- the only relevant factor which will affect my business is the perceived (true or not--- doesn't matter) risk of violence by the reds.

edit --- Jurgen claims the Dems don't have what it takes to keep the PAD under control --- that is not apparently a factual statement. TRT/PPP couldn't control the PAD and by extension it would imply that PTP will not be able to either! The PAD hasn't been "out of control" significantly in the last 2+ years. In fact the PAD is a marginalized fringe group with no political relevance in the absence of the "Thaksin threat."

Edited June 12, 2011 by jdinasia

[473geo]

so, only 1 non extremist left - not that the extremists would agree......

[kropotkin]

extremists attacking a non extremist

extremists attacking different extremists

sigh