Thai Tourism Sector Not Happy With Party Vows

[webfact]

Tourism sector not happy with party vows

By Suchat Sritama

The Nation

The private sector rated the tourism policies of five of the leading political parties in the current election campaign as below expectations after they were announced to the public yesterday.

"Most of the plans are not new. Not even one party committed itself to helping tourism," said Prakit Chinamourphong, president of the Thai Hotels Association.

Charoen Wanganaond, spokesman of the Federation of Thai Tourism Associations (FETTA), expressed disappointment with the policies.

"I rated them at only 50 per cent, as nobody offered new hope to the industry," he said.

Five parties - the Democrats, Pheu Thai, Bhum Jai Thai, Chart Pattana Puea Pandin and the Civil Peace Party - participated in a seminar on "Tourism Policy ... with New Government" organised by FETTA and Post Today newspaper.

Chart Thai Pattana, which currently oversees the tourism sector, was absent from the panel.

Charoen called for the new government that comes to power after the July 3 election to focus on the tourism sector by working more closely with the private sector to drive tourism and solve current problems.

He said private businesses wanted to see the new government continue the National Tourism Agenda to enhance and develop the entire sector.

"Some other issues that the private sector would like to see [dealt with] is airport policy - single or dual airports?" he said.

Opas Netraumpai, vice president of the Thailand Incentive and Convention Association, said the parties on the panel fell short of the expectations of the private sector despite the fact that the tourism industry is an important driver of the country's economy.

Anchalee Vanich Thepabutr of the Democrat Party said it would promote 61 provinces to be tourist attractions by granting a budget of Bt6.6 billion per year for development.

The party would increase marketing to help the private sector.

She said a new act on public demonstrations was being filed and would be enforced soon, which should help bring peace to Bangkok and decrease violence.

However, the party would provide urgent measures to help private businesses in case of unexpected issues.

She also said the country would prepare for the Asean Economic Community in 2015.

"A lot of workers will flow through the region, so we should improve our human resources. Moreover, damaged tourist attractions need rebuilding."

Supachai Jaisamut, spokesman for the Bhum Jai Thai Party, said that if elected it would provide Bt100 million per year per province to encourage local administrations to develop their products and to manage their communities.

More mega-projects such as airport expansion and infrastructure are needed.

Supachai said Bhum Jai Thai would provide more financial assistance to local communities to develop tourism.

He added that local administration should have the right to use their taxes to develop their communities.

Kornpoj Asawinwichit from Chart Pattana Puea Pandin said the party would increase arrivals from emerging markets.

The party proposed a "one district one attraction" scheme to lure tourists into communities.

However, Kornpoj pointed out that political rallies were the people's right in a democratic state.

Phuvanida Kunplin of the Pheu Thai Party said it would invest in mega-projects across the country. One project would be to develop Suvarnabhumi Airport into a regional hub by increasing connecting flights.

Moreover, it would build an airport link from Bangkok to Pattaya along with dual-track high-speed trains to key provinces.

Seri Suwanpanon, leader of the Civil Peace Party, said it would maintain peace in the Kingdom to help people conduct business without internal conflicts.

"If we continue to have conflicts, there will no tourists coming in. So I would raise tourism in the national agenda," he said.

A 24-hour tourism channel is another option.

-- The Nation 2011-06-15

[craigt3365]

Chart Thai Pattana, which currently oversees the tourism sector, was absent from the panel.

[webfact]

5 Political Parties share their vision on Thai tourism

ฺBANGKOK, 15 June 2011 (NNT)-The Association of Thai Tourism together with Post Today have invited 5 political parties to share their policies on how to improve the tourism industry in Thailand.

Ms. Anchalee Wanichthepabut, the Democrat representative, said her Party was focusing on improving tourism spots, making the Thai smile a global brand and devising good marketing strategy.

Meanwhile, Head of Prachasanti, Mr. Seri Suwanphanon, said the Thai tourism would gradually pick up once the situation in the country returned to normal. Bhumijai Thai Spokesperson Mr. Suphachai Jaisamut said it should be done on the local level where both district and provincial offices would receive a budget of 100 million THB per annum to improve local attractions.

Mr. Korapot Aswinwijit, the Pattanaphuapandin Party’s Head of Economics, proposed a one price scheme for each traveling route. An air fare would cost between 1,000-1,200 THB while a train ticket would be sold for 500 THB and buses would be charged 1 THB per kilometer.

The Pheu Thai Party’s tourism representative, Ms. Phuwanida Khunplin, emphasized on making Suwannabhumi Airport the center of traveling route linking Donmuang and Utapao airports. She also proposed that the transport systems needed to be improved.

The purpose of this event is for the tourism industry to get a glimpse of what the future of Thai tourism will be in the next 4 years.

-- NNT 2011-06-15

[Misterwhisper]

Not surprisingly, all those political parties seem to have ignored the real issues that have mired the tourism industry for literally decades:

- gem scams

- jet ski scams

- taxi, tuk-tuk and minivan mafia

- "farang" prices (even officially sanctioned in places like national parks)

- no transparency or simple 'sweeping-under-the-carpet' when it comes to investigating suspicious tourist deaths

- extortion (remember the string of incidents at the airport where out-bound visitors were allegedely accused of shop lifting, illegally detained at a seedy motel and only later released when they had coughed up a substantial amount to 'avoid legal charges'?)

- dirty beaches (well, garbage just about everywhere, to be frank, no only on the beaches)

- con artists (particularly active in the Grand Palace/Sanam Luang area of Bangkok)

- false advertising (with many 'hidden' charges)

- annoying street touts

- gross overpricing in just about every upmarket hotel (THB250++ for a beer???!!!)

..and the list could go on.

It's also very telling that the one party, Chart Thai Pattana, which is supposedly "currently overseeing tourism", was absent from that so-called panel.

[bangkokburning]

Thailand has three levels of tourism. The govt of Thailand is only concerned about the primary layer - where the people in government and their cronies own hotels and all sorts of services that accommodate package tourists.

The government for itself also only cares about hotels that they derive bed taxes and VAT and airport taxes. After that, the government of Thailand does not concern itself one second for the rest of Thai tourism.

The big challenge for Thailand is to get people to return. I would point to the above post, add to it the high THB and consistent and habitual political instability - instability that may leave you stranded in an airport (paying for it and possibly insult to injury, overstay!!).

Thailand has failed to nurture return tourists and long-stayers. Real tourists may have a go at Thailand, but may also want to try (many) other countries in their lifetime(s). Thailand needs new tourists or return tourists. Thailand has done a fabulous job at insulting and/or scamming potential returnees. Immigration hassles are legion with the long stay crowd. Even residents are issued visa "temporary stay...".

Japanese no longer travel to Thailand as they feel it unsafe. Read physically unsafe and scam ridden.

New tourists are only born out of increasing wealth and middle class

Assisting ease of travel (visa) can also bring new tourists (these new tourists only bring revenue to govt in bed tax, vat and airport tax)

In the end, there are only so many new tourists to be found.

Many people admitted these days may have huge cultural issues with your local populations and there may be issues.

Looking for "new" tourists is a loser (China). World economy is very weak and getting weaker.

Local communities - this is an absolute joke. Does the package tourist want to go to Buriram? I think not. How could this scheme drive anything? It cannot.

Thailand does not understand tourism and what is understood only moves within the confines of the package tour and the 3*+ hotel.

Thailand needs to stop dreaming about quality tourists. It is not a quality country and especially the last decade - not quality people.

Thailand needs a hard look at itself. It does a huge disservice by mistreating its farang community. Word is out ...its no paradise.

Here is the real problem:



Thailand should be very worried - word is out, its DONE. This is a list you don't want to be on!

Who needs to spend US2K on a flight to Thailand just so they can stay in a hotel they could stay at home for 50% less. Especially if this is a family holiday!!

So....

Plane is 60k THB

Hotels 6K night

Dinners 500B

Game over

[WtFugarwe]

Forget all the pap. Just do longer visas and allow in-country extension.

WHen I arrived in Malaysia I was greeted by a smiling immigration man who stamped me in--free-for 90 days. As I marveled at this hospitality, he said "iI you want to stay longer, come back here--and I'll stamp you in for another 90".

When I went to the Thai consulate in December 2009 Penang to get a Tourist visa, the man told me I could not get one because, and I quote"You already have three tourist visas in your passport". "But friend, these are from 2008 and 2007!" "When will you go back to your home country?" I don't know, traveling for a couple of years." "Go back to America and you can get a Thai visa in 90 days".

Forget the runway extensions and hotel subsidies. Make people feel welcome when they meet an immigration official, and adopt visa policies that reflect this.

[bangkokburning]

...receive a budget of 100 million THB per annum to improve local attractions.

SCOFF

and this appears to be going to many regions. Just graft...

Want people in Buriram? Eliminate that stupid temple tax that is half of what it costs to see entire Angkor complex for a day.

Who wants to go to Sakarn Nakon?? Sorry. Why? Some person on a two week holiday is not going to Narithivhat or Chachensao. Sorry. Some are blessed, others are not.

Mr. Korapot Aswinwijit, the Pattanaphuapandin Party’s Head of Economics, proposed a one price scheme for each traveling route. An air fare would cost between 1,000-1,200 THB while a train ticket would be sold for 500 THB and buses would be charged 1 THB per kilometer.

Overthinking. Complicated and based on no sound data.

Meddling in free markets

You don't have tourists

Many buses are now < than 1B per km. Even VIP are about .75%

...She also proposed that the transport systems needed to be improved.

As a tourist, I always marvel at how great the system is here. An endless web to get you anywhere from Mae Hong Son to Koh Tarutao.

Know nothings and panderers

[ginjag]

Not surprisingly, all those political parties seem to have ignored the real issues that have mired the tourism industry for literally decades:

- gem scams

- jet ski scams

- taxi, tuk-tuk and minivan mafia

- "farang" prices (even officially sanctioned in places like national parks)

- no transparency or simple 'sweeping-under-the-carpet' when it comes to investigating suspicious tourist deaths

- extortion (remember the string of incidents at the airport where out-bound visitors were allegedely accused of shop lifting, illegally detained at a seedy motel and only later released when they had coughed up a substantial amount to 'avoid legal charges'?)

- dirty beaches (well, garbage just about everywhere, to be frank, no only on the beaches)

- con artists (particularly active in the Grand Palace/Sanam Luang area of Bangkok)

- false advertising (with many 'hidden' charges)

- annoying street touts

- gross overpricing in just about every upmarket hotel (THB250++ for a beer???!!!)

..and the list could go on.

It's also very telling that the one party, Chart Thai Pattana, which is supposedly "currently overseeing tourism", was absent from that so-called panel.

Your spot on. Do any of these people on tourism boards ever meet tourists?? do they ever speak to foreigners here who know the problems, do they ever look at their own airline and wonder why it is so mismanaged, It should be the flagship, you just have to read the topic re Thai International acquiring new aircraft, read it and tell me WHEN they are getting them 55555 joke, I mentioned this because it's so important to have reasonable fares to get tourists to come--====even if you lose a bit of money==== get the people here, but do NOT have scams waiting for them--or think 80% off merchandise in BKK shops will get them here.

You my friend were spot on regarding the rip offs. These people get big money but fail to see the problems stopping tourists arriving

[pisico]

Not surprisingly, all those political parties seem to have ignored the real issues that have mired the tourism industry for literally decades:

- gem scams

- jet ski scams

- taxi, tuk-tuk and minivan mafia

- "farang" prices (even officially sanctioned in places like national parks)

- no transparency or simple 'sweeping-under-the-carpet' when it comes to investigating suspicious tourist deaths

- extortion (remember the string of incidents at the airport where out-bound visitors were allegedely accused of shop lifting, illegally detained at a seedy motel and only later released when they had coughed up a substantial amount to 'avoid legal charges'?)

- dirty beaches (well, garbage just about everywhere, to be frank, no only on the beaches)

- con artists (particularly active in the Grand Palace/Sanam Luang area of Bangkok)

- false advertising (with many 'hidden' charges)

- annoying street touts

- gross overpricing in just about every upmarket hotel (THB250++ for a beer???!!!)

..and the list could go on.

It's also very telling that the one party, Chart Thai Pattana, which is supposedly "currently overseeing tourism", was absent from that so-called panel.

May I add a few items to your list?

Streets and buses that are not cleaned regularly (Sorry! I forgot they do it during Songkran)

Motorcycles cruising up and down SIDEWALKS endangering the lives of pedestrians.

Motor vehicles oblivious to traffic signals, especially motorcycles, that are a constant threat to pedestrians and themselves.

Egregious lack of animal control in every major city (Thailand has less than 6) to prevent the dog population to grow and roam freely; a sign of urban decay. This in itself is a rabies epidemic in the making.

Common knowledge has it that the police join the force by purchasing the position or as a result of political debts and/or favors.

Laws that are applied (or not) depending on the status of the offender. Examples: 2 girls are fined 500THB for being topples in public but when a 16 year old, without without a driver's license crashes the hi-so's family's car into a van carrying numerous passengers and 8 died, she walks free and the parents are not held accountable for the actions of their minor daughter while using the family car.

Can we expect a pro active attitude regarding tourism from the authorities?

They believe, as most Thais do, that this is such a special country that no matter what their flaws and deficiencies are, tourists will continue flocking to Thailand because they are Oh, so special!

This excerpt below says it all:

Edited June 15, 2011 by craigt3365
Fixed quotation problem

[Bkkorupcountry]

Not surprisingly, all those political parties seem to have ignored the real issues that have mired the tourism industry for literally decades:

- gem scams

- jet ski scams

- taxi, tuk-tuk and minivan mafia

- "farang" prices (even officially sanctioned in places like national parks)

- no transparency or simple 'sweeping-under-the-carpet' when it comes to investigating suspicious tourist deaths

- extortion (remember the string of incidents at the airport where out-bound visitors were allegedely accused of shop lifting, illegally detained at a seedy motel and only later released when they had coughed up a substantial amount to 'avoid legal charges'?)

- dirty beaches (well, garbage just about everywhere, to be frank, no only on the beaches)

- con artists (particularly active in the Grand Palace/Sanam Luang area of Bangkok)

- false advertising (with many 'hidden' charges)

- annoying street touts

- gross overpricing in just about every upmarket hotel (THB250++ for a beer???!!!)

..and the list could go on.

It's also very telling that the one party, Chart Thai Pattana, which is supposedly "currently overseeing tourism", was absent from that so-called panel.

I have worked over 20 years in tourism, not just in Thailand but internationally as well. With the possible exception of "dirty beaches" mentioned above, none of the other items has any significant effect on tourism. Many European cities, especially London and Paris are much worse in terms of gross overpricing, street touts and con artists, not to mention actual physical threat to life in terms of robberies and snatch thievery.

IMO, Thailand is the best country to visit and/or to stay, when both good and bad are considered. The hotels offer the best value for money anywhere in the world. Drink prices at upmarket hotels will always be high, this is just a simple fact of life. I pay Euro 25 for a glass of beer in the rooftop bar of Concorde la Fayette - are there any hotels in Bkk that would charge this?

In the bars in any of the nightlife entertainment districts, I consider THB 100 for a Singha beer very good value considering that you can have the company of the bar girls if you so wish (of course, it is understood that you should also buy them a drink, which costs THB 40-60 more than yours), but still extremely cheap. (I'm talking here about Bangkok but it is considerably cheaper in some other provinces).

Just last night, we concluded an Awards Presentation Dinner at a 5 star hotel near the riverside. We had police escorts from one hotel to the venue. We had cultural dances, hot dances. We had fireworks, great food and drink. The speed and efficiency of the hotel staff in setting up the venue (including a standby venue indoors in case of rain) was beyond anything that I have seen anywhere in Europe (I have organised such events and still do, in the UK, France, Switzerland, Spain, Russia, Italy etc). Comments from the delegates (who are from overseas)? They just love Thailand. Prices for a meal can range from THB 30 to THB 3,000. The main thing is that the choice is there, unlike many other countries.

The problem that Thai Tourism face is mainly due to the political instability and turmoil that this country has gone through in the last 18 years. This has created a negative image in many people's minds and this is the reason that a lot of them stay away. More marketing has to be done globally to promote Thailand, something that Malaysia surprisingly managed to get right. The second major problem is course the language - not enough service people speak English, which is the universal travel language. Finally, there aren't many man made attractions, instead, Thailand is still very reliant on shopping, beaches and culture.

[pisico]

Not surprisingly, all those political parties seem to have ignored the real issues that have mired the tourism industry for literally decades:

- gem scams

- jet ski scams

- taxi, tuk-tuk and minivan mafia

- "farang" prices (even officially sanctioned in places like national parks)

- no transparency or simple 'sweeping-under-the-carpet' when it comes to investigating suspicious tourist deaths

- extortion (remember the string of incidents at the airport where out-bound visitors were allegedely accused of shop lifting, illegally detained at a seedy motel and only later released when they had coughed up a substantial amount to 'avoid legal charges'?)

- dirty beaches (well, garbage just about everywhere, to be frank, no only on the beaches)

- con artists (particularly active in the Grand Palace/Sanam Luang area of Bangkok)

- false advertising (with many 'hidden' charges)

- annoying street touts

- gross overpricing in just about every upmarket hotel (THB250++ for a beer???!!!)

..and the list could go on.

It's also very telling that the one party, Chart Thai Pattana, which is supposedly "currently overseeing tourism", was absent from that so-called panel.

I have worked over 20 years in tourism, not just in Thailand but internationally as well. With the possible exception of "dirty beaches" mentioned above, none of the other items has any significant effect on tourism. Many European cities, especially London and Paris are much worse in terms of gross overpricing, street touts and con artists, not to mention actual physical threat to life in terms of robberies and snatch thievery.

IMO, Thailand is the best country to visit and/or to stay, when both good and bad are considered. The hotels offer the best value for money anywhere in the world. Drink prices at upmarket hotels will always be high, this is just a simple fact of life. I pay Euro 25 for a glass of beer in the rooftop bar of Concorde la Fayette - are there any hotels in Bkk that would charge this?

In the bars in any of the nightlife entertainment districts, I consider THB 100 for a Singha beer very good value considering that you can have the company of the bar girls if you so wish (of course, it is understood that you should also buy them a drink, which costs THB 40-60 more than yours), but still extremely cheap. (I'm talking here about Bangkok but it is considerably cheaper in some other provinces).

Just last night, we concluded an Awards Presentation Dinner at a 5 star hotel near the riverside. We had police escorts from one hotel to the venue. We had cultural dances, hot dances. We had fireworks, great food and drink. The speed and efficiency of the hotel staff in setting up the venue (including a standby venue indoors in case of rain) was beyond anything that I have seen anywhere in Europe (I have organised such events and still do, in the UK, France, Switzerland, Spain, Russia, Italy etc). Comments from the delegates (who are from overseas)? They just love Thailand. Prices for a meal can range from THB 30 to THB 3,000. The main thing is that the choice is there, unlike many other countries.

The problem that Thai Tourism face is mainly due to the political instability and turmoil that this country has gone through in the last 18 years. This has created a negative image in many people's minds and this is the reason that a lot of them stay away. More marketing has to be done globally to promote Thailand, something that Malaysia surprisingly managed to get right. The second major problem is course the language - not enough service people speak English, which is the universal travel language. Finally, there aren't many man made attractions, instead, Thailand is still very reliant on shopping, beaches and culture.

So, according to you the armies of unbridled soi dogs roaming and populating the streets of the city you choose to glamorize, Bangkok, are not real, but an "image created in many people's minds".

The motorcycles cruising up and down the sidewalks endangering the lives of pedestrians are not real but "image created in many people's minds".

Except for a smattering of streets in the hi-so area of Ratchaprasong that gets regular cleaning, the rest of the city from Nonthabury, to Pinklao and Taling Chan with the stinking canals (klongs) carrying from refuse to black waters and the dirty streets and grimy buses are not Real, but "image created in many people's minds".

Bangkok represents only 1/6 of the population of the country. It is not representative of Thailand.

I am happy that you can enjoy the perks of events that apply to venues of "quality tourists". The other two lowly levels of tourism that are the ones that actually impact positively those small businesses and lower social levels do not benefit or ever see events such as the one you described. Good for you, not good for the thousands of tourists that do see those problems as real and not just as an "image created in people's minds". Your words not mine. Denial of the obvious?

[craigt3365]

I have worked over 20 years in tourism, not just in Thailand but internationally as well. With the possible exception of "dirty beaches" mentioned above, none of the other items has any significant effect on tourism. Many European cities, especially London and Paris are much worse in terms of gross overpricing, street touts and con artists, not to mention actual physical threat to life in terms of robberies and snatch thievery.

IMO, Thailand is the best country to visit and/or to stay, when both good and bad are considered. The hotels offer the best value for money anywhere in the world. Drink prices at upmarket hotels will always be high, this is just a simple fact of life. I pay Euro 25 for a glass of beer in the rooftop bar of Concorde la Fayette - are there any hotels in Bkk that would charge this?

In the bars in any of the nightlife entertainment districts, I consider THB 100 for a Singha beer very good value considering that you can have the company of the bar girls if you so wish (of course, it is understood that you should also buy them a drink, which costs THB 40-60 more than yours), but still extremely cheap. (I'm talking here about Bangkok but it is considerably cheaper in some other provinces).

Just last night, we concluded an Awards Presentation Dinner at a 5 star hotel near the riverside. We had police escorts from one hotel to the venue. We had cultural dances, hot dances. We had fireworks, great food and drink. The speed and efficiency of the hotel staff in setting up the venue (including a standby venue indoors in case of rain) was beyond anything that I have seen anywhere in Europe (I have organised such events and still do, in the UK, France, Switzerland, Spain, Russia, Italy etc). Comments from the delegates (who are from overseas)? They just love Thailand. Prices for a meal can range from THB 30 to THB 3,000. The main thing is that the choice is there, unlike many other countries.

The problem that Thai Tourism face is mainly due to the political instability and turmoil that this country has gone through in the last 18 years. This has created a negative image in many people's minds and this is the reason that a lot of them stay away. More marketing has to be done globally to promote Thailand, something that Malaysia surprisingly managed to get right. The second major problem is course the language - not enough service people speak English, which is the universal travel language. Finally, there aren't many man made attractions, instead, Thailand is still very reliant on shopping, beaches and culture.

Excellent points. I've traveled extensively and IMHO, Thailand ain't bad. We were in Europe for a few months during the fall of 2009. I was amazed at the scams I saw. Mainly from gypsies. Paris, Madrid, Lisbon. We had an attempted pickpocket in Paris and Madrid. Purse stolen in Lisbon. Scams tried on us in every city (did you drop that gold ring? Oh, this hotel is closed, can I show you another? I'm only looking for donations...can you hold this for me? And then you get followed while they say you need to buy it as you are holding it and they won't take it back., etc, etc, etc).

We had dinner 2 nights ago right on the beach here in Thailand. Sure, not as nice as Grand Cayman or Gold Coast...but it's OK. Beers, plenty of seafood and tip for 4 was 740B. Fantastic. Where else can you do that?

Sure...Thailand has it's issues. But so does everywhere else. I think we are so picky here because we see the potential?????

[ginjag]

Not surprisingly, all those political parties seem to have ignored the real issues that have mired the tourism industry for literally decades:

- gem scams

- jet ski scams

- taxi, tuk-tuk and minivan mafia

- "farang" prices (even officially sanctioned in places like national parks)

- no transparency or simple 'sweeping-under-the-carpet' when it comes to investigating suspicious tourist deaths

- extortion (remember the string of incidents at the airport where out-bound visitors were allegedely accused of shop lifting, illegally detained at a seedy motel and only later released when they had coughed up a substantial amount to 'avoid legal charges'?)

- dirty beaches (well, garbage just about everywhere, to be frank, no only on the beaches)

- con artists (particularly active in the Grand Palace/Sanam Luang area of Bangkok)

- false advertising (with many 'hidden' charges)

- annoying street touts

- gross overpricing in just about every upmarket hotel (THB250++ for a beer???!!!)

..and the list could go on.

It's also very telling that the one party, Chart Thai Pattana, which is supposedly "currently overseeing tourism", was absent from that so-called panel.

I have worked over 20 years in tourism, not just in Thailand but internationally as well. With the possible exception of "dirty beaches" mentioned above, none of the other items has any significant effect on tourism. Many European cities, especially London and Paris are much worse in terms of gross overpricing, street touts and con artists, not to mention actual physical threat to life in terms of robberies and snatch thievery.

IMO, Thailand is the best country to visit and/or to stay, when both good and bad are considered. The hotels offer the best value for money anywhere in the world. Drink prices at upmarket hotels will always be high, this is just a simple fact of life. I pay Euro 25 for a glass of beer in the rooftop bar of Concorde la Fayette - are there any hotels in Bkk that would charge this?

In the bars in any of the nightlife entertainment districts, I consider THB 100 for a Singha beer very good value considering that you can have the company of the bar girls if you so wish (of course, it is understood that you should also buy them a drink, which costs THB 40-60 more than yours), but still extremely cheap. (I'm talking here about Bangkok but it is considerably cheaper in some other provinces).

Just last night, we concluded an Awards Presentation Dinner at a 5 star hotel near the riverside. We had police escorts from one hotel to the venue. We had cultural dances, hot dances. We had fireworks, great food and drink. The speed and efficiency of the hotel staff in setting up the venue (including a standby venue indoors in case of rain) was beyond anything that I have seen anywhere in Europe (I have organised such events and still do, in the UK, France, Switzerland, Spain, Russia, Italy etc). Comments from the delegates (who are from overseas)? They just love Thailand. Prices for a meal can range from THB 30 to THB 3,000. The main thing is that the choice is there, unlike many other countries.

The problem that Thai Tourism face is mainly due to the political instability and turmoil that this country has gone through in the last 18 years. This has created a negative image in many people's minds and this is the reason that a lot of them stay away. More marketing has to be done globally to promote Thailand, something that Malaysia surprisingly managed to get right. The second major problem is course the language - not enough service people speak English, which is the universal travel language. Finally, there aren't many man made attractions, instead, Thailand is still very reliant on shopping, beaches and culture.

Thailand is reliant on beaches,one of three things you mentioned.-But earlier you said a downside to Thailand are the dirty beaches-apart from that you don't seem to agree with every other downside-scams etc, and you have experience in travel. I have read all your overseas comparisons really they are not very relevant WE are discussing Thailand--and WHY the tourists are not here--well all you suggest is that it's the political downside that is the problem.

You didn't mention the Thai International TG airline dilemma or bad greedy attitude problems in resorts. In the tourist industry you should be aware of ALL the downsides and not shy away from them, we need things cleaning up here in more ways than one. Politics aside Reputation is being lost rapidly by the things you failed to see.

[Bkkorupcountry]

Not surprisingly, all those political parties seem to have ignored the real issues that have mired the tourism industry for literally decades:

- gem scams

- jet ski scams

- taxi, tuk-tuk and minivan mafia

- "farang" prices (even officially sanctioned in places like national parks)

- no transparency or simple 'sweeping-under-the-carpet' when it comes to investigating suspicious tourist deaths

- extortion (remember the string of incidents at the airport where out-bound visitors were allegedely accused of shop lifting, illegally detained at a seedy motel and only later released when they had coughed up a substantial amount to 'avoid legal charges'?)

- dirty beaches (well, garbage just about everywhere, to be frank, no only on the beaches)

- con artists (particularly active in the Grand Palace/Sanam Luang area of Bangkok)

- false advertising (with many 'hidden' charges)

- annoying street touts

- gross overpricing in just about every upmarket hotel (THB250++ for a beer???!!!)

..and the list could go on.

It's also very telling that the one party, Chart Thai Pattana, which is supposedly "currently overseeing tourism", was absent from that so-called panel.

I have worked over 20 years in tourism, not just in Thailand but internationally as well. With the possible exception of "dirty beaches" mentioned above, none of the other items has any significant effect on tourism. Many European cities, especially London and Paris are much worse in terms of gross overpricing, street touts and con artists, not to mention actual physical threat to life in terms of robberies and snatch thievery.

IMO, Thailand is the best country to visit and/or to stay, when both good and bad are considered. The hotels offer the best value for money anywhere in the world. Drink prices at upmarket hotels will always be high, this is just a simple fact of life. I pay Euro 25 for a glass of beer in the rooftop bar of Concorde la Fayette - are there any hotels in Bkk that would charge this?

In the bars in any of the nightlife entertainment districts, I consider THB 100 for a Singha beer very good value considering that you can have the company of the bar girls if you so wish (of course, it is understood that you should also buy them a drink, which costs THB 40-60 more than yours), but still extremely cheap. (I'm talking here about Bangkok but it is considerably cheaper in some other provinces).

Just last night, we concluded an Awards Presentation Dinner at a 5 star hotel near the riverside. We had police escorts from one hotel to the venue. We had cultural dances, hot dances. We had fireworks, great food and drink. The speed and efficiency of the hotel staff in setting up the venue (including a standby venue indoors in case of rain) was beyond anything that I have seen anywhere in Europe (I have organised such events and still do, in the UK, France, Switzerland, Spain, Russia, Italy etc). Comments from the delegates (who are from overseas)? They just love Thailand. Prices for a meal can range from THB 30 to THB 3,000. The main thing is that the choice is there, unlike many other countries.

The problem that Thai Tourism face is mainly due to the political instability and turmoil that this country has gone through in the last 18 years. This has created a negative image in many people's minds and this is the reason that a lot of them stay away. More marketing has to be done globally to promote Thailand, something that Malaysia surprisingly managed to get right. The second major problem is course the language - not enough service people speak English, which is the universal travel language. Finally, there aren't many man made attractions, instead, Thailand is still very reliant on shopping, beaches and culture.

So, according to you the armies of unbridled soi dogs roaming and populating the streets of the city you choose to glamorize, Bangkok, are not real, but an "image created in many people's minds".

The motorcycles cruising up and down the sidewalks endangering the lives of pedestrians are not real but "image created in many people's minds".

Except for a smattering of streets in the hi-so area of Ratchaprasong that gets regular cleaning, the rest of the city from Nonthabury, to Pinklao and Taling Chan with the stinking canals (klongs) carrying from refuse to black waters and the dirty streets and grimy buses are not Real, but "image created in many people's minds".

Bangkok represents only 1/6 of the population of the country. It is not representative of Thailand.

I am happy that you can enjoy the perks of events that apply to venues of "quality tourists". The other two lowly levels of tourism that are the ones that actually impact positively those small businesses and lower social levels do not benefit or ever see events such as the one you described. Good for you, not good for the thousands of tourists that do see those problems as real and not just as an "image created in people's minds". Your words not mine. Denial of the obvious?

Of course the unbridled soi dogs and dirty klongs are all real. However, I do not think that these have any real significant impact on tourism into this country. Tourism takes many forms, whether it be individual FIT travel or group series / collective travel or ad hoc, leisure, incentive travel. The majority of these travellers will not encounter or be bothered by the soi dogs and dirty klongs.

It may also be true that Bkk represents only 1/6 of the population of the country. Furthermore, together with just a few other destinations such as Phuket, Pattaya, Chiang Mai, and some popular resorts such as Koh Samui, Krabi etc , this may only represent 30-40% of the population. However, these destinations will easily account for 80% or more of tourist dollars. Majority of tourists are not really interested in visiting the likes of Nakhon Rachasima or Ubon or Roi Et (all of which I personally enjoy very much). And let's face it, tourism is a business about tourist dollars and it is very unlikely that the backpacking tourist going upcountry is likely to spend more than the well heeled tourists shopping in the likes of Emporium and Central World. Who do you think the Govt and business prefer?

[Bkkorupcountry]

Not surprisingly, all those political parties seem to have ignored the real issues that have mired the tourism industry for literally decades:

- gem scams

- jet ski scams

- taxi, tuk-tuk and minivan mafia

- "farang" prices (even officially sanctioned in places like national parks)

- no transparency or simple 'sweeping-under-the-carpet' when it comes to investigating suspicious tourist deaths

- extortion (remember the string of incidents at the airport where out-bound visitors were allegedely accused of shop lifting, illegally detained at a seedy motel and only later released when they had coughed up a substantial amount to 'avoid legal charges'?)

- dirty beaches (well, garbage just about everywhere, to be frank, no only on the beaches)

- con artists (particularly active in the Grand Palace/Sanam Luang area of Bangkok)

- false advertising (with many 'hidden' charges)

- annoying street touts

- gross overpricing in just about every upmarket hotel (THB250++ for a beer???!!!)

..and the list could go on.

It's also very telling that the one party, Chart Thai Pattana, which is supposedly "currently overseeing tourism", was absent from that so-called panel.

I have worked over 20 years in tourism, not just in Thailand but internationally as well. With the possible exception of "dirty beaches" mentioned above, none of the other items has any significant effect on tourism. Many European cities, especially London and Paris are much worse in terms of gross overpricing, street touts and con artists, not to mention actual physical threat to life in terms of robberies and snatch thievery.

IMO, Thailand is the best country to visit and/or to stay, when both good and bad are considered. The hotels offer the best value for money anywhere in the world. Drink prices at upmarket hotels will always be high, this is just a simple fact of life. I pay Euro 25 for a glass of beer in the rooftop bar of Concorde la Fayette - are there any hotels in Bkk that would charge this?

In the bars in any of the nightlife entertainment districts, I consider THB 100 for a Singha beer very good value considering that you can have the company of the bar girls if you so wish (of course, it is understood that you should also buy them a drink, which costs THB 40-60 more than yours), but still extremely cheap. (I'm talking here about Bangkok but it is considerably cheaper in some other provinces).

Just last night, we concluded an Awards Presentation Dinner at a 5 star hotel near the riverside. We had police escorts from one hotel to the venue. We had cultural dances, hot dances. We had fireworks, great food and drink. The speed and efficiency of the hotel staff in setting up the venue (including a standby venue indoors in case of rain) was beyond anything that I have seen anywhere in Europe (I have organised such events and still do, in the UK, France, Switzerland, Spain, Russia, Italy etc). Comments from the delegates (who are from overseas)? They just love Thailand. Prices for a meal can range from THB 30 to THB 3,000. The main thing is that the choice is there, unlike many other countries.

The problem that Thai Tourism face is mainly due to the political instability and turmoil that this country has gone through in the last 18 years. This has created a negative image in many people's minds and this is the reason that a lot of them stay away. More marketing has to be done globally to promote Thailand, something that Malaysia surprisingly managed to get right. The second major problem is course the language - not enough service people speak English, which is the universal travel language. Finally, there aren't many man made attractions, instead, Thailand is still very reliant on shopping, beaches and culture.

Thailand is reliant on beaches,one of three things you mentioned.-But earlier you said a downside to Thailand are the dirty beaches-apart from that you don't seem to agree with every other downside-scams etc, and you have experience in travel. I have read all your overseas comparisons really they are not very relevant WE are discussing Thailand--and WHY the tourists are not here--well all you suggest is that it's the political downside that is the problem.

You didn't mention the Thai International TG airline dilemma or bad greedy attitude problems in resorts. In the tourist industry you should be aware of ALL the downsides and not shy away from them, we need things cleaning up here in more ways than one. Politics aside Reputation is being lost rapidly by the things you failed to see.

The point that I am trying to make is that in order to increase tourism into a particular destination, it is important to focus on what are the REAL issues MOST affecting tourist arrivals. Scams and overpricing are everywhere in the world, this is a fact well known to any traveller. But what constitutes a good travel destination? I would say top of the list would be the following (not in any particular order - dear readers, please feel free to add or comment on the below list):

- security to the traveller, both in the hotels / resorts and on the streets

- overall security/safety (preceived or real) of the destination (can't think that many people are planning to visit Tokyo or Libya at the moment and I know for a fact that hotels have a very low booking post election)

- destination attractions (natural such as beaches and mountains, man made such as famous museums or landmarks)

- quality of food

- quality and standard of hotels

- shopping

- overall value for money

I fail to see how TG's problems would affect tourism in any real capacity. There are many other airlines flying into and out of Bkk and other popular destinations. However, the closure of Suvanabhumi has had a real impact in the months following.

No doubt cleaning up the country would be beneficial in the long run, but mostly for locals and residents. One can hardly call London, Paris, Rome, NY clean but yet, there is substantial tourism to these destinations.

[craigt3365]

Thailand is reliant on beaches,one of three things you mentioned.-But earlier you said a downside to Thailand are the dirty beaches-apart from that you don't seem to agree with every other downside-scams etc, and you have experience in travel. I have read all your overseas comparisons really they are not very relevant WE are discussing Thailand--and WHY the tourists are not here--well all you suggest is that it's the political downside that is the problem.

You didn't mention the Thai International TG airline dilemma or bad greedy attitude problems in resorts. In the tourist industry you should be aware of ALL the downsides and not shy away from them, we need things cleaning up here in more ways than one. Politics aside Reputation is being lost rapidly by the things you failed to see.

Don't take this wrong....just discussing this....but I don't think the beaches are that bad. I've been to pretty much every island and many, many beaches. Pattaya and surrounds are for sure not the best. But elsewhere, pretty darn good. And I'm a love of beaches. Been to many Caribbean islands, Greece, Zanzibar, Hawaii, Philippines, Indo, etc, etc. Sure, there are better, but not for this price.

What is the TG dilemma? I'm not even aware of this. And I have not seen real greedy attitudes in Thai resorts....mainly smiles...

[slapout]

As a employee and a owner in the private sector for several decades, which was not tourist related, I have little sympathy for those private businesses who ask the government/tax payer to help them financially. New, returning, and potential customer promotion should be a part of any business expense budget. If the gross income is not there for the promotion expense the individual companies involved need to make some hard internal decisions, not ask for taxpayer dollars to help them.

[ginjag]

Not surprisingly, all those political parties seem to have ignored the real issues that have mired the tourism industry for literally decades:

- gem scams

- jet ski scams

- taxi, tuk-tuk and minivan mafia

- "farang" prices (even officially sanctioned in places like national parks)

- no transparency or simple 'sweeping-under-the-carpet' when it comes to investigating suspicious tourist deaths

- extortion (remember the string of incidents at the airport where out-bound visitors were allegedely accused of shop lifting, illegally detained at a seedy motel and only later released when they had coughed up a substantial amount to 'avoid legal charges'?)

- dirty beaches (well, garbage just about everywhere, to be frank, no only on the beaches)

- con artists (particularly active in the Grand Palace/Sanam Luang area of Bangkok)

- false advertising (with many 'hidden' charges)

- annoying street touts

- gross overpricing in just about every upmarket hotel (THB250++ for a beer???!!!)

..and the list could go on.

It's also very telling that the one party, Chart Thai Pattana, which is supposedly "currently overseeing tourism", was absent from that so-called panel.

I have worked over 20 years in tourism, not just in Thailand but internationally as well. With the possible exception of "dirty beaches" mentioned above, none of the other items has any significant effect on tourism. Many European cities, especially London and Paris are much worse in terms of gross overpricing, street touts and con artists, not to mention actual physical threat to life in terms of robberies and snatch thievery.

IMO, Thailand is the best country to visit and/or to stay, when both good and bad are considered. The hotels offer the best value for money anywhere in the world. Drink prices at upmarket hotels will always be high, this is just a simple fact of life. I pay Euro 25 for a glass of beer in the rooftop bar of Concorde la Fayette - are there any hotels in Bkk that would charge this?

In the bars in any of the nightlife entertainment districts, I consider THB 100 for a Singha beer very good value considering that you can have the company of the bar girls if you so wish (of course, it is understood that you should also buy them a drink, which costs THB 40-60 more than yours), but still extremely cheap. (I'm talking here about Bangkok but it is considerably cheaper in some other provinces).

Just last night, we concluded an Awards Presentation Dinner at a 5 star hotel near the riverside. We had police escorts from one hotel to the venue. We had cultural dances, hot dances. We had fireworks, great food and drink. The speed and efficiency of the hotel staff in setting up the venue (including a standby venue indoors in case of rain) was beyond anything that I have seen anywhere in Europe (I have organised such events and still do, in the UK, France, Switzerland, Spain, Russia, Italy etc). Comments from the delegates (who are from overseas)? They just love Thailand. Prices for a meal can range from THB 30 to THB 3,000. The main thing is that the choice is there, unlike many other countries.

The problem that Thai Tourism face is mainly due to the political instability and turmoil that this country has gone through in the last 18 years. This has created a negative image in many people's minds and this is the reason that a lot of them stay away. More marketing has to be done globally to promote Thailand, something that Malaysia surprisingly managed to get right. The second major problem is course the language - not enough service people speak English, which is the universal travel language. Finally, there aren't many man made attractions, instead, Thailand is still very reliant on shopping, beaches and culture.

Thailand is reliant on beaches,one of three things you mentioned.-But earlier you said a downside to Thailand are the dirty beaches-apart from that you don't seem to agree with every other downside-scams etc, and you have experience in travel. I have read all your overseas comparisons really they are not very relevant WE are discussing Thailand--and WHY the tourists are not here--well all you suggest is that it's the political downside that is the problem.

You didn't mention the Thai International TG airline dilemma or bad greedy attitude problems in resorts. In the tourist industry you should be aware of ALL the downsides and not shy away from them, we need things cleaning up here in more ways than one. Politics aside Reputation is being lost rapidly by the things you failed to see.

The point that I am trying to make is that in order to increase tourism into a particular destination, it is important to focus on what are the REAL issues MOST affecting tourist arrivals. Scams and overpricing are everywhere in the world, this is a fact well known to any traveller. But what constitutes a good travel destination? I would say top of the list would be the following (not in any particular order - dear readers, please feel free to add or comment on the below list):

- security to the traveller, both in the hotels / resorts and on the streets

- overall security/safety (preceived or real) of the destination (can't think that many people are planning to visit Tokyo or Libya at the moment and I know for a fact that hotels have a very low booking post election)

- destination attractions (natural such as beaches and mountains, man made such as famous museums or landmarks)

- quality of food

- quality and standard of hotels

- shopping

- overall value for money

I fail to see how TG's problems would affect tourism in any real capacity. There are many other airlines flying into and out of Bkk and other popular destinations. However, the closure of Suvanabhumi has had a real impact in the months following.

No doubt cleaning up the country would be beneficial in the long run, but mostly for locals and residents. One can hardly call London, Paris, Rome, NY clean but yet, there is substantial tourism to these destinations.

Thai International could be a major player by lowering fares, Where are the tourists now? politics??

Suvanabhumi new airport and its scams havent helped either. My opinion is if you can get them to come, you have to keep them coming back, this is why I mentioned the downsides, I think they are more important than you think. Word of mouth--is a brilliant way to get tourists here-the problem being the tourist leaving is not recommending Thai when he gets home. Thais biggest problems are now there are far more downsides than there ever was before and its NOT all because of politics- please do not compare the Thames,or the canals in London to the same here, the water is not drinkable from major rivers anywhere, but you drink out of a canal here you will have mega probs. If we listen to the people who live in the tourist areas, what they know about their area we soon get the picture.

[ginjag]

Thailand is reliant on beaches,one of three things you mentioned.-But earlier you said a downside to Thailand are the dirty beaches-apart from that you don't seem to agree with every other downside-scams etc, and you have experience in travel. I have read all your overseas comparisons really they are not very relevant WE are discussing Thailand--and WHY the tourists are not here--well all you suggest is that it's the political downside that is the problem.

You didn't mention the Thai International TG airline dilemma or bad greedy attitude problems in resorts. In the tourist industry you should be aware of ALL the downsides and not shy away from them, we need things cleaning up here in more ways than one. Politics aside Reputation is being lost rapidly by the things you failed to see.

Don't take this wrong....just discussing this....but I don't think the beaches are that bad. I've been to pretty much every island and many, many beaches. Pattaya and surrounds are for sure not the best. But elsewhere, pretty darn good. And I'm a love of beaches. Been to many Caribbean islands, Greece, Zanzibar, Hawaii, Philippines, Indo, etc, etc. Sure, there are better, but not for this price.

What is the TG dilemma? I'm not even aware of this. And I have not seen real greedy attitudes in Thai resorts....mainly smiles...

I should have said Pattaya re the beaches. As Pattaya relies mostly on other attractions for it's tourism. so some Island are brilliant. T.G dilemma being aged aircraft, few updated facilities and very high fares, I mentioned this as part of an answer to lack of tourism, being the Thai flag carrier it's one of the first things you would expect to be good-hence the fact that they are losing custom hand over fist. So you have not been exposed to scams and rip offs ?? in resorts ?? I'm retired and tend to be more careful these days what I pay, and who I pay it too. good to discuss though others call it Thai bashing but I call it constructive, without it -or not being aware of things we cannot make it better for others. chow-thank for response.

[Bkkorupcountry]

Thai International could be a major player by lowering fares, Where are the tourists now? politics??

Suvanabhumi new airport and its scams havent helped either. My opinion is if you can get them to come, you have to keep them coming back, this is why I mentioned the downsides, I think they are more important than you think. Word of mouth--is a brilliant way to get tourists here-the problem being the tourist leaving is not recommending Thai when he gets home. Thais biggest problems are now there are far more downsides than there ever was before and its NOT all because of politics- please do not compare the Thames,or the canals in London to the same here, the water is not drinkable from major rivers anywhere, but you drink out of a canal here you will have mega probs. If we listen to the people who live in the tourist areas, what they know about their area we soon get the picture.

Yes, if TG would lower fares, this would undoubtedly help tourism further and help my own bottom line too as I travel on TG on average once every 10 days

I agree with you that the downsides mentioned by some posters are important, I think we merely disagree on the level of importance to inbound tourism. I would prefer Bangkok to Kuala Lumpur, Jakarta, Singapore, Manila, Hong Kong or HCM. The public transportation in Hkg and Singapore is superior to Bkk. These two cities are also a lot safer. The girls in Jakarta and Manila are "wilder" than Thai girls (please, just personal opinion, no flaming please ). Riding a motorbike in HCMC is slight safer than in Bkk. Roadside stalls in KL offer slightly more variety and arguably more hygienic than in Bkk. However, overall, Bkk does tick the box in lots of areas, thus I would score it higher overall.

I read in a lot of other forums as well where there are many satisfied tourists who are intending to revisit very soon. I guess it depends a lot on what each and every tourist is expecting and the sort of holiday they want. Russian tourist arrivals are at an all time high if I'm not mistaken, something like an increase of 46% over last year, so obviously there is something that is attractive to them (in Pattaya, I should add).

I still believe that there is a difference to what is important for the locals and local residents as opposed to what is important to promoting tourism.

[craigt3365]

The only scam I've been exposed to was the one at the main temple in Bangkok where I was asked if I wanted a free tour of Bangkok if I agreed to visit a gem showroom and a tailor. Worked out great for me as I got a tour of the city, several main attractions, and didn't buy anything.

As far as TG...I've traveled here many, many, many times and have never flown TG. Mainly because they are EXPENSIVE!!!! So what...pick another carrier????

[bangkokburning]

How can you compare Europe to Thailand insofar as costs and not look at the US or a myriad of other non European destinations that surely give Thai Hotels and restaurants a run for their money?

I think what is costs to get on the plane to come here can largely cover any additional holiday expenses. I'm looking at US2K to return home this year. So, for pax 2 outbound JFK perhaps 4.5K? To come here? For what?

A dirty hooker and a 3 dollar singha? Yup, that's the real appeal.

Well, you are right - that IS the appeal and men interested in that will come. But couples and families which have nations with things to see and do - not so much.

Natl Museum here is crap.

You confuse common petty thievery and cons (which Thailand does not have a lot of), with other problems - like denying they recd your deposit, double charging, telling you to f-off, raising the rate, not giving you things in std package, switching buses, crappy meals...THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A REFUND IN THAILAND AND THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS WRONG. Maybe this grates on tourists?

Anyone spending 25 Euro on a beer should be shot.

[BigRick]

I have been resistant to sign up even though I have lived in Thailand almost a year but this thread is too hard to pass up!

1. Thailand is a great country, That being said it has some real problems first and foremost the inability to understand everyones poop stinks. Some Thais strike me as being very xenophobic and a little bit racist.

2. The guy talking about high soc tourism cracks me up how many of us have that luxury in a global recession? I guess that Laotian girl who got cut in half by a high soc douche bag driving a expensive car does not exist. No way money buys privilege in Thailand she was cheap only 150k baht to clear it up.

3. I do a lot of walking in Bangkok because I like to explore all those little nooks and crannies for new and interesting thing. One of the things that struck me the most is the riverside slum right behind Siam Paragon. It is very Metropolis you have raw sewage canals within 100m from the flag ship of stores. Trust me it is a facade dig a little deeper in these sois you will see the true face of Thailand. I have seen more humanity in these places than I have ever seen in any high end mall. Just because you are poor does not make you any less of a human being no matter what rich people think in this country.

4. I hope the powers that be understand when the tourism goes and you tell all of us Farang you don't need us please remember our financial institutions and manufacturing leaves also. What separates Thailand from Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam? Foreign business investment do you think Thailand will survive? Of course it will but welcome to the same standard of living as the countries around you.

5. There are a lot of bad feelings from people who travel in Thailand and see all the scams. Live in this country long enough you will see it. How many people who have lived here long term and have been ripped off by taxi drivers that refuse to drive from point A-B so he can get 10baht more? How many times are you charged more for the same thing? On the flip side of this is a tremendous amount of kindness and friendship if the locals know you. I shop at the local market 2-3 times a week they are always nice and many times they have laughed at arrogant Thais that have no concept of I don't have to wait because you are a Farang and I am Thai! I am lucky I stand out like a sore thumb being 194cm and 120kg hard to miss but even I know better not to start a fight because its always going to be us vs them. Most of the problems are individual predators who can only survive stealing and scamming other people they bring such a disproportionate amount of ill will to the country it does have an adverse effect on tourism (Jet Ski scams, touts, aggressive behavior, transportation mafias parking mafias etc etc Thais suffer too trust me)

6. Political unrest could get ugly less dollars more people wanting payoffs for political concessions. They have a funny system here if you want a government job for life its easy just pay the 500k and you are set! (No BS trust me). Rich people never give up power and the days of the poor accepting it are coming to an end. Instability is a very real threat to Thailand no matter how much you pretend it does not exist (See poster above about his gumdrop world with chocolate rivers ideology)

7. The service industry in Thailand has declined they want the money but do not want to provide the quality of service. Many places are exceptional but many are not. Trip Adviser has been great for this. I just got back from Cambodia and the quality of service was tremendous in Siam Riep (At a 15$ a night hotel Angkor 89 #12 rank on adviser proved that it is not about how much you pay saying hello does not cost anything)

8. The business climate is awful sure you can own a business in Thailand its easy follow these steps 1. Have lots of money 2. Have lots of money 3. Give your Thai partner lots of money 4. Make sure you have a fake office with 2 fake employees (It comes with the desk and the employee is the related to the owner of office mill) 5. Realize you innovative idea will be stolen by people who have more connections and are Thai. 6. Have lots of money. 7. Understand "accidents" happen when you are successful here. You know the kind, fall off the balcony backwards while drugged or drowning in a shallow lake with blunt force trauma and knife wounds(Don't worry the crack team of Thai doctors will determine it was dehydration or Burmese seasonal workers).

9. All that bad stuff is balanced out by what a truly amazing country it is. I truly believe most Thais are good at heart they are raised in an obedient society where kindness and compassion is a measure of character. I have been many places in Thailand and most are interesting and some are very exciting (Diving with bullsharks off Chumphon comes to mind). Most of the problems revolve around the inability to think outside of the Thai mindset.

10. Its only over priced if you don't know how to live in the society. Have a beer at your local watering hole you will find the people a lot more friendly. I love the food here(Except the north food that smells like vomit) and the shopping is world class. The staggering amount of variety is incredible. There are things I miss but they are replaced by other things that are far more exotic.

11. Never judge the country by the stereo types 99% of the women here do not work in bars and if you take a little effort to be a gentleman and not a pig you can live a happy life here. If there is a 30 year age difference between you and the woman understand she is sacrificing youth and it is something you can never buy when you are old. Sure you think being 60-65 and charming works but in all reality they expect concessions for their well being. Nothing makes me laugh more than a geezer thinking he is a playboy with a bar girl. If you really think she is talking to you because you are witty and handsome tape a 1000baht to your head and save the time and cut the chase.

[craigt3365]

How can you compare Europe to Thailand insofar as costs and not look at the US or a myriad of other non European destinations that surely give Thai Hotels and restaurants a run for their money?

I think what is costs to get on the plane to come here can largely cover any additional holiday expenses. I'm looking at US2K to return home this year. So, for pax 2 outbound JFK perhaps 4.5K? To come here? For what?

A dirty hooker and a 3 dollar singha? Yup, that's the real appeal.

Well, you are right - that IS the appeal and men interested in that will come. But couples and families which have nations with things to see and do - not so much.

Natl Museum here is crap.

You confuse common petty thievery and cons (which Thailand does not have a lot of), with other problems - like denying they recd your deposit, double charging, telling you to f-off, raising the rate, not giving you things in std package, switching buses, crappy meals...THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A REFUND IN THAILAND AND THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS WRONG. Maybe this grates on tourists?

Anyone spending 25 Euro on a beer should be shot.

Wow...I fly back home on a regular basis. Never paid anywhere near 2K USD.

And I have gotten several refunds. On many things. But for sure, not on everything.

[ginjag]

The only scam I've been exposed to was the one at the main temple in Bangkok where I was asked if I wanted a free tour of Bangkok if I agreed to visit a gem showroom and a tailor. Worked out great for me as I got a tour of the city, several main attractions, and didn't buy anything.

As far as TG...I've traveled here many, many, many times and have never flown TG. Mainly because they are EXPENSIVE!!!! So what...pick another carrier????

Ha cheap charlie you cold have bought an ice cream My comment re Thai was because it is related to the tourism topic, if traveling Thai to Thailand it has a nicer ring to the holiday, I do travel with a.n other now, so when Thai prices went up and the planes got old I picked another. But back on topic more, over years Thai tourism=TAT have all the answers to get their finger out to get people back. Getting good money to act and do their job, seems difficult.

[Lannatyne]

I know an MP who built, and then sold off, seaview condominiums.

When all were sold, he went and built a hotel right in front of the seaview apartments. So, those with an ex-seaview condo now look at the arse-end of a hotel!!

[Furbie]

I almost don't have the energy to correct some of the wrong information in these posts, but I will give it a shot.

First, you need to understand that Thailand's tourism market is diverse. Here are some interesting segments.

a. Middles Eastern tourists here for medical tourism

b. Japanese tourists, mainly in groups

c. Germans – nicely segmented by age and income to various islands and beach destinations

d. Scandinavians, also nicely segmented, but most families clustered around Phang-nga

e. Independent travelers, mostly westerners (Brits, Kiwis, Aussies, Americans) running around the country – from sex tourists to back packers, to eco-tourists to beach bums, to those genuinely interested in Thai culture and exploring new exotic locations

f. MICE – if you need to look this up, please don't leave an opinion on Thailand tourism

g. Russians – mainly in Pattaya, though my understanding is limited, but from what I understand its marketed as a beach paradise – it probably is for the Russians

h. Indians – who believed TAT advertising, I still can't figure out why they come

i. Chinese – many on below cost tours, where they have to buy from favored merchants.

j. Singaporeans – many independent and group travelers.

k. Domestic tourism – oh yeah, most of you forgot that Thais travel around Thailand to all of these provinces to check out their own country - and do things like use the buses and trains and want things to see and do that you and I don't care about. This is a HUGE part of the tourism market.

Now let's understand that there are only a couple of factors that will affect almost all of these travelers. These include – the economy and the political situation. Thailand is getting more expensive, so people who are price conscious will look elsewhere. The political situation is a disaster, so some nationalities – especially the Japanese – will look elsewhere. MICE is affected heavily by both as well. But even with this, medical tourists from the Middle East still come.

That being said, other factors will affect each segment – dirty beaches, people will skip them and go elsewhere, say Vietnam. However, who has dirty beaches. Pattaya, yes, parts of Phuket, yes. But what about many of the islands? There are still many pristine beaches.

Soi dogs? How many tourists are going to come across an aggressive soi dog in the areas that they stay in – this is an ex-pat problem that you notice because you live here? I can see the conversation now. How was your trip to Thailand? Great, but I won't go back because of all the soi dogs.

Immigration – I find the one's in Indonesia to be much ruder. Try South America some day.

Scams – go to Vietnam and you will see scams

Now, leaving aside the fact that their is no easy fix for the economy or the political situation, the Thai government is screwing up in areas where it can help. Such as:

1. Pushing for high value tourists when the country is not ready for it and promoting low value tourism to Indians and Chinese, who don't spend like independent travelers and tend to confine their spending to a few hotels and favored merchants of the operators – but hey, someone has to justify all of the lovely Thai flights to these places. Essentially, Thailand is abandoning its traditional tourism base that the infrastructure is set up for.

2. Allowing over development in key traditional tourism areas – doing things like ruining the coral reefs. Destroy enough natural beauty, that's the end. But we are not there yet.

3. Failing to recognize that they are not supporting their traditional tourism base and allowing other regional destinations to take them – Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Bali…. This creates a ripple effect, as many independent travelers come as young backpackers and return as adults to spend more money. Lose them as a backpacker to Vietnam, they may go to Vietnam later in life instead.

Other issues such as the jetski rip offs, etc. are a problem, but will not have a major effect on the tourism industry. Letting a million little problems fester may, but most of those problems exist in similar destinations. Someone willing to deal with these issues in Bali will be willing to deal with them in Phuket. Someone who is not willing to deal with them will not travel to these destinations, or would likely only do it once. I will admit, if it gets bad enough, it can have a major impact. But it would have to be much, much worse than it is now. It will be interesting to see what the digital age does to this, but I do believe that the information was always there for those who were concerned by it - Lonely Planet has reported on these forever. So, it is not a root cause of the problem we see today.

The tourism operators you see in these meetings are typically the ones dealing with independent travelers. These businesses are getting hit by 1. the economy – Thailand expensive, the air tickets are too much, THB strong, will I have a job next week, 2. the political situation – maybe I will wait until next year and see if it calms down, if I'm Japanese forget it, plus my whole country has got problems. And 3. other destinations getting smarter and more sophisticated in their marketing stealing independent travelers, while TAT courts the Russians, Indians and Chinese. The government can fix number 3, but it won't turn the industry around, just help it along. In short, the government could get rid of every scam in Thailand and make every beach pristine, it's not going to stop these underlying issues, the economy and the political situation.

[BigRick]

How can you compare Europe to Thailand insofar as costs and not look at the US or a myriad of other non European destinations that surely give Thai Hotels and restaurants a run for their money?

I think what is costs to get on the plane to come here can largely cover any additional holiday expenses. I'm looking at US2K to return home this year. So, for pax 2 outbound JFK perhaps 4.5K? To come here? For what?

A dirty hooker and a 3 dollar singha? Yup, that's the real appeal.

Well, you are right - that IS the appeal and men interested in that will come. But couples and families which have nations with things to see and do - not so much.

Natl Museum here is crap.

You confuse common petty thievery and cons (which Thailand does not have a lot of), with other problems - like denying they recd your deposit, double charging, telling you to f-off, raising the rate, not giving you things in std package, switching buses, crappy meals...THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A REFUND IN THAILAND AND THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS WRONG. Maybe this grates on tourists?

Anyone spending 25 Euro on a beer should be shot.

Wow...I fly back home on a regular basis. Never paid anywhere near 2K USD.

And I have gotten several refunds. On many things. But for sure, not on everything.

I like the National museum. Are you talking about one with all the weapons and early hybrid Buddhist stone work? And where are you looking at tickets its 1300US RT and that is high I saw one on Eva for 980$ Bkk-SEA.

The customer is always wrong and no refund you got that right! But there are business owners who understand a refund might not be in order but compensation is not out of the question. Most of the stuff you described in that sentence I have seen first hand VIP Aircon VIP meal VIbullsh*t. Tours that leave an hour late and return an hour early. The old what do you mean my bill is 500baht I had a soda water and a hamburger "Sorry 300 not 500 Sorry 215 not 300 Duh >=(. The things you see when you do not drink.

Thailand is very affordable just have to your girlfriend do most of the Thai side arrangements. The islands are of course expensive but paradise is not cheap .

[californiabeachboy]

I have worked over 20 years in tourism, not just in Thailand but internationally as well. With the possible exception of "dirty beaches" mentioned above, none of the other items has any significant effect on tourism. Many European cities, especially London and Paris are much worse in terms of gross overpricing, street touts and con artists, not to mention actual physical threat to life in terms of robberies and snatch thievery.

IMO, Thailand is the best country to visit and/or to stay, when both good and bad are considered. The hotels offer the best value for money anywhere in the world. Drink prices at upmarket hotels will always be high, this is just a simple fact of life. I pay Euro 25 for a glass of beer in the rooftop bar of Concorde la Fayette - are there any hotels in Bkk that would charge this?

In the bars in any of the nightlife entertainment districts, I consider THB 100 for a Singha beer very good value considering that you can have the company of the bar girls if you so wish (of course, it is understood that you should also buy them a drink, which costs THB 40-60 more than yours), but still extremely cheap. (I'm talking here about Bangkok but it is considerably cheaper in some other provinces).

Just last night, we concluded an Awards Presentation Dinner at a 5 star hotel near the riverside. We had police escorts from one hotel to the venue. We had cultural dances, hot dances. We had fireworks, great food and drink. The speed and efficiency of the hotel staff in setting up the venue (including a standby venue indoors in case of rain) was beyond anything that I have seen anywhere in Europe (I have organised such events and still do, in the UK, France, Switzerland, Spain, Russia, Italy etc). Comments from the delegates (who are from overseas)? They just love Thailand. Prices for a meal can range from THB 30 to THB 3,000. The main thing is that the choice is there, unlike many other countries.

The problem that Thai Tourism face is mainly due to the political instability and turmoil that this country has gone through in the last 18 years. This has created a negative image in many people's minds and this is the reason that a lot of them stay away. More marketing has to be done globally to promote Thailand, something that Malaysia surprisingly managed to get right. The second major problem is course the language - not enough service people speak English, which is the universal travel language. Finally, there aren't many man made attractions, instead, Thailand is still very reliant on shopping, beaches and culture.

Excellent points. I've traveled extensively and IMHO, Thailand ain't bad. We were in Europe for a few months during the fall of 2009. I was amazed at the scams I saw. Mainly from gypsies. Paris, Madrid, Lisbon. We had an attempted pickpocket in Paris and Madrid. Purse stolen in Lisbon. Scams tried on us in every city (did you drop that gold ring? Oh, this hotel is closed, can I show you another? I'm only looking for donations...can you hold this for me? And then you get followed while they say you need to buy it as you are holding it and they won't take it back., etc, etc, etc).

We had dinner 2 nights ago right on the beach here in Thailand. Sure, not as nice as Grand Cayman or Gold Coast...but it's OK. Beers, plenty of seafood and tip for 4 was 740B. Fantastic. Where else can you do that?

Sure...Thailand has it's issues. But so does everywhere else. I think we are so picky here because we see the potential?????

I agree. I have traveled quite a bit and I don't think the scams are any worse in Thailand than other places.

But I do think the biggest problem for tourism in Thailand at the moment is the political instability. I was in Bkk last year when the protests broke out, but left before the buildings were set of fire. Rarely does anything going on in Thailand make the news here in the US, but that did - images of buildings on fire in Bangkok were all over the evening news. Once those images get into peoples minds, they are hard to get rid of, and the images come back when people are selecting travel destinations. While marketing may help a little bit, as long as the instability is there, the bad images will be there, and the best marketing in the world won't bring them back.

Most tourists will put up with a scam now and then, they realize it is a part of travel. But threats to their personal safety (and the safety of their kids) will keep them away in droves, and that applies to all nationalities.

Edited June 15, 2011 by californiabeachboy

[painterscabin]

Forget all the pap. Just do longer visas and allow in-country extension.

WHen I arrived in Malaysia I was greeted by a smiling immigration man who stamped me in--free-for 90 days. As I marveled at this hospitality, he said "iI you want to stay longer, come back here--and I'll stamp you in for another 90".

When I went to the Thai consulate in December 2009 Penang to get a Tourist visa, the man told me I could not get one because, and I quote"You already have three tourist visas in your passport". "But friend, these are from 2008 and 2007!" "When will you go back to your home country?" I don't know, traveling for a couple of years." "Go back to America and you can get a Thai visa in 90 days".

Forget the runway extensions and hotel subsidies. Make people feel welcome when they meet an immigration official, and adopt visa policies that reflect this.

I agree with you 100%, good post. I and thousands of other have to leave every 90 days,spend our money on tourist visas to other countries just to turn around and come back to thailand, money that would have been spent in thailand.