Raising Beef Cattle In Issan

[Maizefarmer]

Alfalfa does not grow well by its self in Thailand - and I would certainly not grow it as a crop, as the inputs are too high versus what it has to offer. But - yes, cows love it and will consume it fresh in suicidal quantities if they get the chance. They have know appreciation that what they are eating will lead to their death over the next day or so.

It gets into the digestive tract and there it sits fermenting away untill the cows digestive system packs up (its all to do with how the digestive system handles the nitrogen content and the nitrides and nitrates - another subject all on its own).

The first physical symptom: the cow will blow up like a ballon. It will then have to be tied to a post, anethatised and the abdomen will have to be cut open to scoop it all out. Getting a cow to stand still while you have your hand inserted through its abdomin to scoop out the stomach contents is not easy

You then have to stitch up the stomach lining. then muscle and then the skin and hope like hel_l infection doesn't set in - which it almost certianly will.

Alfalfa is very much an example of a cultivated forage that that a cow will feed on naturally to its detriment (i.e,. death). That is not where th risak lies in Thailand, but it can lies in naturally occuring forage growth and in uncultivated fields:

- varieties of the Asian Beefstake plant (Perilla frutsense) check spelling. extremly toxic (cows tend to ignore the mature plants because of the taste, but he juvanile plants are tasty).

- leaves from the Asian Yew (Taxis Cuspidate) - cows will eat the leves from low branches - it will kill them in very small quantities (literally a few mouthfills - and very quickly as well)

- larkspar - there is a variety of larkspar that grows in Thailand. Cattle will not eat the mature plant but will eat young plants (the alkaloids are lethal).

None of the above are rare - they all occur growing naturally in fields in Thailand and will kill in small qauntities (i.e. from a few mouth fills to a few plants).

The rule with fresh cultivated forages (uncut) is NITROGEN, NITRATE and NITRIDE content - usualy in relation to the water content, the combination of which messes up the rumen and leads to N poisening in one or other form.

The subject is really quite comlicated and if tackled to any degree other than just a brief mention of those to be avoided, needs a thread all on its own.

Tim

S1.doc

[teletiger]

Alfalfa is widely grown in the States, as winter hay and some forage. Precautions do need to be taken when grown as forage though. Cattle are normally started on a high Mg mineral mix a week or so before putting them on Alfalfa. Also filling them up on hay in the mornings before pasturing. Putting cattle on any pure legume pasture is chancey, not only Alfalfa.

Regards

[chownah]

Maizefarmer,

Thanks for the information. I found this link about Perilla frutescens aka perilla, beefsteak plant, chinese basil, and purple mint:

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/cropfac...ts/perilla.html

Among other things it said:

"Perilla is a common weed of pastures and roadsides in the southeastern United States (Brenner 1993). One reason for perilla's survival in pastures, is that cattle avoid it. "

From this it doesn't sound like perilla should be much of a problem.

I couldn't find much about the Asian Yew except that it is poisonous to animals. I did find a site that says that it doesn't like wet soils so at least for us lowland farmers I doubt that it would be a problem but perhaps the upland people should watch out for this one. I wonder how likely it is that cow would want to eat this...most evergreen trees have rather bitter foliage and if cows eat what tastes good then I doubt that they would eat a yew tree unless there was nothing else to eat.

I also looked up larkspur and found that in North America in mountainous pastures larkspur poisoning causes annual fatalities averaging 5%. The link:

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2691651

I though it was intersting that these researchers found that:

"Cyclic consumption generally enables cattle to regulate tall larkspur consumption below a toxic threshold and allows cattle the opportunity to safely use an otherwise nutritious, but toxic, plant." I have seen larkspur growing in mountainous regions of North America and have not seen anything like it in Thailand. Has anyone spotted it growing here naturally and if so was it in a mountainous area?

and the same organization but from another site said, "It is important for livestock owners and managers to recognize toxic plants growing in their area." I think we would all agree on that.....so.....if anyone could provide links or photos of any of these plants as they are seen in Thailand or if you have information on their distribution throught the country you would be doing us all a service by posting that information here....and any information about any other plants toxic to grazing cattle.

Chownah

P.S. This is great information on poisonous plants but I'm still wondering if there are other plants that a cow will gorge on until death...like alfalfa which is not a problem in Thailand. I have heard that in the US some spring grasses can have the same effect as the alfalfa. I have heard that the treatment is at first sign of bloat you insert a very big supersized hypodermic needle through the abdominal wall and into the appropriate stomach or intestine (which ever) and this lets the fermentation gases escape through the needle....and it seems like you have to keep the animal standing up and walking but I'm not sure about the walking.......anyone heard of this?

Chownah

Edited November 7, 2006 by chownah

[teletiger]

Whew!....Chowhah.....before you start stabbing away at your cow/bull try putting a length of hose down it's throat, into the rumen, to let the gas escape that way. Then drench it with half a litre or litre of cooking oil (I used a litre before on a 350 kilo bull, with good results). This is an emergency procedure only. If you can get a vet out quickly (you'll be lucky) do so. My case was 1 bull in a 40 bull feedlot. I never found out why he bloated and he was fine till we sent him to slaughter.

Regards

[Maizefarmer]

Maizefarmer,

Thanks for the information. I found this link about Perilla frutescens aka perilla, beefsteak plant, chinese basil, and purple mint:

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/cropfac...ts/perilla.html

Among other things it said:

"Perilla is a common weed of pastures and roadsides in the southeastern United States (Brenner 1993). One reason for perilla's survival in pastures, is that cattle avoid it. "

From this it doesn't sound like perilla should be much of a problem.

I couldn't find much about the Asian Yew except that it is poisonous to animals. I did find a site that says that it doesn't like wet soils so at least for us lowland farmers I doubt that it would be a problem but perhaps the upland people should watch out for this one. I wonder how likely it is that cow would want to eat this...most evergreen trees have rather bitter foliage and if cows eat what tastes good then I doubt that they would eat a yew tree unless there was nothing else to eat.

I also looked up larkspur and found that in North America in mountainous pastures larkspur poisoning causes annual fatalities averaging 5%. The link:

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2691651

I though it was intersting that these researchers found that:

"Cyclic consumption generally enables cattle to regulate tall larkspur consumption below a toxic threshold and allows cattle the opportunity to safely use an otherwise nutritious, but toxic, plant." I have seen larkspur growing in mountainous regions of North America and have not seen anything like it in Thailand. Has anyone spotted it growing here naturally and if so was it in a mountainous area?

and the same organization but from another site said, "It is important for livestock owners and managers to recognize toxic plants growing in their area." I think we would all agree on that.....so.....if anyone could provide links or photos of any of these plants as they are seen in Thailand or if you have information on their distribution throught the country you would be doing us all a service by posting that information here....and any information about any other plants toxic to grazing cattle.

Chownah

P.S. This is great information on poisonous plants but I'm still wondering if there are other plants that a cow will gorge on until death...like alfalfa which is not a problem in Thailand. I have heard that in the US some spring grasses can have the same effect as the alfalfa. I have heard that the treatment is at first sign of bloat you insert a very big supersized hypodermic needle through the abdominal wall and into the appropriate stomach or intestine (which ever) and this lets the fermentation gases escape through the needle....and it seems like you have to keep the animal standing up and walking but I'm not sure about the walking.......anyone heard of this?

Chownah

While it is true to say that many of these plants are avoided by cattle, that is not strictly or always the case.

Many of these plants only take on an unplatable taste when mature. Perilla is one of them. In its juvenile form it is soft and sweet (try some - the leaves are very sweet when the plant is young). However, its toxicity is present from germination. Calves especially like it because it is so easy to tear the whole plant from the ground without drawing out the roots, soil and dirt - which claves like to avoid.

The issue with toxicity amongst forages is not only restricted to alafalfa. To a lessor degree toxicity is found amongst many forage grasses that are fed on a regular basis to cattlle quite safely .. and this this is where we start discussing the subject in alot more detail.

Even fresh cut maize can be toxic - in particular the stems within the first couple of inches above the ground. To feed a cow on fresh cut maize stems would/could poison it with Nitrates.

Nitrates, Nitrides and Nitrogen levels are high in all green forages, and in particular taking a cow off a a winter forage diet of processed rations and ensiled feed and changing over to a green forage in one go can poison cattle. The key here is a gradual adjustment of the diet so that the cows digestive system adapt - in the case of fresh green forages so that it can adapt to the significantly higher N levels, which is whats poisons cattle.

No - from personal experiance I can tell you that the insertion of a hypodermic needle through the abdominal wall to release the gasses, while theory can work, in practise does not work. Believe me I have been through this at least a dozen times. The idea that there is a pocket of gas sitting above the rumen contents is false.

Imagine a ballon stuffed full of finely chopped grass that has the consitiancy of a bag of damp concentrate powder. That is what it is like, and that mushy mess has a surface tension that will not permitt free gaesous movement from one side to the other i.e. the gas within a couple cubic cm around the tip of the needle may well bleed into it to be extracted, thats as much as will. There is no pocket of gas - it is an elastic container which contracts and expands around the volume of food contained within it.

Its a dynamic ongoing process. Not only that, the gas is the symptom not the problem per say. The problem is the contents - which have to be removed to halt the process.

I tube down the throat into the rumen, not to let the gas escape but to adminster medication (i.e. cooking oil) is a consideration.

Performing surgey as I described is very much a "make sure you know what you are doing affair" - but it is the one sure way of saving the cow.

Photos - its a job for junior next weekend. She knows all the plants , I'll send her out with her digital to get some pics.

[chownah]

Isaangeorge,

I finally tracked down my uncle and quizzed him about the local cows. He says he doesn't give his cows any salt...he says its not necessary. He says that none of the people in our village give salt to their cows but that some people over there somewhere who raise cows for milk give their cows salt but the local cows are raised for meat so it is not necessary. He says that the only time his cows eat salt is if he has alot of weeds growing somewhere and he wants to clear them away then he dissolves regular salt (I think it is sea salt but not sure) in water and sprays it on the weeds then the cows will eat it all... My estimation is that this happens once every few years so I don't think it qualifies as trace mineral supplementation.

I asked my uncle about poisonous plants and he says that there are none around here.....which probably means that if there are any the cows leave them alone....for him it is a non-issue.....maybe he's right and there aren't any.

I asked my uncle about bloat. He says that the only time he has heard of this happening is if cows get into a corn field and eat alot of corn plants....other than this it never has happened in his experience.

It goes without saying that my uncle does not achieve optimum results in his cow raising endeavors......but.....this does show that at least around here a cow can be raised with reasonable health without mineral supplementation...and that at least around here one need not worry about poisonous plant or bloat so long as Little Boy

Blue comes and blows his horn to keep the sheep out of the meadow and the cows out of the corn.

Chownah.

Edited November 8, 2006 by chownah

[Issangeorge]

Chownah, perhaps it's only our family that is giving the cow's a lick, and not the other farmers in the area, I have never asked. We give a mineral lick, although it may contain salt I will have to look. Sounds like your unkle has a good way to get rid of the weeds as long as they are not harmfull to the cows. Issangeorge.

[Maizefarmer]

Licks contain a lot of salt because it is cheap, stable, long lasting easily dissolvable binder which will not deteriate in storage or for the duration the lick is exposed outside. It also acts as a fairly decent preservative for the mineral content - and stimulates drinking which in turns stimulates more food uptake.

Salt free licks are avalible, but as Thai's do not practise a lot of forage growing, cattle fed on natural scrub and grass land and straws are usualy deficent to some extent in sodium (as too are those that feed on cultiavated forages), the addition of a mineral lick, or even just a salt lick can only be a good thing.

Tim

[bina]

somthing just went ding ding in my brain. frank the german falang in korat was bitterly compaining about his goats dying off as in-- fine today, tomorrow dead. he though it was his neighbors poisoning them, we thought maybe scorpions or snakes. i was at his goat field and forgot completely the major goat rule; NEVER CUT FORAGE AND BRING IT TO YOUR GOATS, A SURE WAY TO POISON THEM ... he brings forage in to his goats. he does not recognize what plants are what, and then... i remembered that i poisoned 7 ibexes many years ago due to same mistake; i gave them a plant they can eat a small amount of but dont pig out on due to it being bitter. however, when the plant dries up, they still eat it as ibexs are like goats and love leaves... and then they eat a lot and get nitrate poisoning... so i think i may have an answer for him in soeng sang... here i never bring in forage for fear of poisoning with oleander leaves etc.

for bloat-- parrafin oil we mix with water and do drench or veggie oil etc all work, followed half hour later by baking soda as powder or in cold water drench to counteract acidosis etc. with horses, fresh wine or beer drench, a shot of benamine and walking walking walking and pray alot. tried the needle in the rumen with a lamb, tried tubing... died anyhow.

salt licks; to each type of animal bovine caprine or ovine there is a different lick, also, depending on your area, OR THE AREA YOUR FEED COMES FROM, I.E. WHAT ITS CONTENT IS , u decide which lick to supply your animals with. with or without CU copper; SE selenium, etc.

good practice to always feed roughage before out to new pasture to avoid bloat; also, goats get enterotoxin vaccine to avoid rumen problems also.

Edited November 29, 2006 by bina