gerry53 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Corruption is the fuel that keeps this country running. I don't think there is any more or less of it, just that the police are getting hip to new ways to collect. 4am helmet stops on small sois for example. Claiming a non-modified bike is modified. Urine testing on the side of the road. All unheard of just a couple of years ago, but they are finding new ways to collect their beer money. What brasses me off about the whole "helmet" thing, is that it's so irrational. Stopping and fining ( mainly farangs ) for no helmets along Beach and Second, while up at the Sukhumvit end of Central Rd there are Thais driving around with no helmets all the time. I have even seen them drive past policemen, that ignore them. IMO, that's why the whole thing invites criticism from farangs, as it's seen as basically a revenue producing exercise, and not for safety. It's certainly not fair, which law enforcement needs to be if it is to have credibility. I agree completely if their intent is road safety and reduction of injuries - deaths. I find it even more "difficult" when a BIB in uniform is riding his motorbike without one on either. I usually find the organized road block checkpoints honest and fair but those freelance cops operating by themselves vwithout supervision can be brutal with fines for imaginary offenses. The fact that they don't issue you a ticket and want you to slip the money under your license is a pretty good tipoff! Edited August 30, 2011 by gerry53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokay Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) I have never experienced an instance of corruption in the over 10 years I have lived in Pattaya (and that includes at least 30-40 times receiving immigration services of one kind or another) so no I don't think corruption is out of control in Pattaya. That is unbelievable. Edited August 30, 2011 by Tokay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarangBuddha Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I have never experienced an instance of corruption in the over 10 years I have lived in Pattaya (and that includes at least 30-40 times receiving immigration services of one kind or another) so no I don't think corruption is out of control in Pattaya. That is unbelievable. I think the main thing is many farangs try to cut corners in Thailand to either save time and/or money (they think) and then complain about fines [nee corruption] when they get caught out and have to pay a fine. All my visas, visa extensions, driver's license, and house purchases I have done myself (with the help of qualified Thai professionals...not "bar-stool lawyers") so all are legit and therefore I never have any problems if and when (once when driving) I have any contact with Thai officialdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poanoi Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) So can you recommend any good lawyer to deal with immigration when they demand ridiculous 'proof' indefinitely, not stated by ministry of foreign affairs ? Edited August 30, 2011 by poanoi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickinpattaya Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I wish the coppers over here in the uk to an extent were abit like the BIB. Caught speeding 3 points on your license ( 5 years increased insurance premiums) and a £60 fine. I'd rather give the copper £30 and have been done with it! Someone posted about being pulled over and "fined" for not wearing a helmat. There's a simple answer to that, wear your helmat and you wont be pulled over and fined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarangBuddha Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) So can you recommend any good lawyer to deal with immigration when they demand ridiculous 'proof' indefinitely, not stated by ministry of foreign affairs ? I have never had to use a lawyer for any immigration related matters...only for home purchases so can't help you there. You don't provide any specifics of what it is you're trying to prove...however, you either qualify or you don't for immigration related matters and the requirements are pretty clearly stated and easy to prove without any assistance. Edited August 31, 2011 by FarangBuddha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poanoi Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) After having provided everything stated in iso-8859-1__Police Order 2008.pdf , she went on to demand receipt showing that i brought money from my home country. When i came back with that, she went on demanding a copy of my visa card, it was obvious after 4 additional demands that she intended to do that until my visa expired. i guess i should have suspected a fraud and made a civil arrest using the force i deemed necessary In any case, there is pencil video recorders for sale at tuk kom 1300 baht, but i think they are 480*320 resolution, (not sure tho, and neither is the sellers) i'm getting this pencil with 640*480 http://bigboyelectronics.com/pen-dvr-4gb Edited August 31, 2011 by poanoi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolarOhm Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 My thoughts on the bar owner done for working are simply that owning a bar in no way allows you to work and a work permit for that is not going to be given. Those who know keep their heads down and do not greet guests nor act like they are in any way working. My thoughts on check points are that Pattaya is rife with motor bike theft, drugs and gun-toting youth gangs so the checks are warranted. The police are damned if the do these and damned if they don't. What would you suggest as an alternative ? Not sure drugs and Thaksin are that related, frankly, despite his highly touted activity down South. My own thoughts are that many nationalities are involved in the Thai drug trade with chemicals going out to other countries for re-imported finished drugs plus the exports of Yaba. Spot on - crooked Farangs breaking the law complaining about cops nabbing them! Pattaya is rife with foreign criminals - the Thai police have their hands full trying to protect both Thai and Farangs. It is more expedient to grab the crooks money than to tie up courts with all the foreigners involved in petty crimes. My hat goes off to the Thai police - doing things the Thai way in a struggle against farang mafia and petty crooks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarangBuddha Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) After having provided everything stated in iso-8859-1__Police Order 2008.pdf , she went on to demand receipt showing that i brought money from my home country. When i came back with that, she went on demanding a copy of my visa card, it was obvious after 4 additional demands that she intended to do that until my visa expired. i guess i should have suspected a fraud and made a civil arrest using the force i deemed necessary In any case, there is pencil video recorders for sale at tuk kom 1300 baht, but i think they are 480*320 resolution, (not sure tho, and neither is the sellers) i'm getting this pencil with 640*480 http://bigboyelectronics.com/pen-dvr-4gb From your rather strange post, it seems to me the immigration police are doing their job in denying you a visa (getting rid of undesirables) so my hats off to them. Edited August 31, 2011 by FarangBuddha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB1950 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 After having provided everything stated in iso-8859-1__Police Order 2008.pdf , she went on to demand receipt showing that i brought money from my home country. When i came back with that, she went on demanding a copy of my visa card, it was obvious after 4 additional demands that she intended to do that until my visa expired. i guess i should have suspected a fraud and made a civil arrest using the force i deemed necessary In any case, there is pencil video recorders for sale at tuk kom 1300 baht, but i think they are 480*320 resolution, (not sure tho, and neither is the sellers) i'm getting this pencil with 640*480 http://bigboyelectro...com/pen-dvr-4gb From your rather strange post, it seems to me the immigration police are doing their job in denying you a visa (getting rid of undesirables) so my hats off to them. Good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolarOhm Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Penal code of Thailand Section 157 Whoever, being an official, wrongfully exercises or does not exercise any of his functions to the injury of any person, or dishonestly exercises or omits to exercise any of his functions, shall be punished with imprisonment of one to ten years or fined of two thousand to twenty thousand Baht, or both. http://www.samuifors...penal-code.html http://www.google.co...RHh65sR68Ico-3Q Only question is: If i catch a police wrongfully exercises or does not exercise any of his functions to the injury of any person, (myself) where do i go to press charges ? I think i'm suppose to go to a judge somewhere, but where ? you are not the law - you can not catch anyone - you can not make a determination if a person is breaking the law. You have no authority to arrest nor impersonate a member of the police force. The courts will make a determination of guilt after due process. If you believe a police officer is breaking the law you may file a complaint and face the defendant in the courts. Beware - you as the plaintiff might face a cross claim, and be found guilty of making a frivilous or vexacious complaint, or libel, slander, and a host of farang wrong-doings Do you really want to go down that path? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poanoi Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) From your rather strange post' date=' it seems to me the immigration police are doing their job in denying you a visa (getting rid of undesirables) so my hats off to them.[/quote']Firstly their job is to exercise their function, which is to grant visa for those who qualify according to the current regulations, and deny visa for those who doesn't qualify for current regulations. Anything else is a break of duty. Secondly if you go down the break of duty route, how do you define undesirables ? under 50 ? punter ? else ? edit: I think the problem is that some police here, like yourself, interpret their emotions/wishful thinking/greed as the actual law Edited August 31, 2011 by poanoi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB1950 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) poanoi, I've tried to follow your posts. Penal code of Thailand Section 157 Whoever, being an official, wrongfully exercises or does not exercise any of his functions to the injury of any person, or dishonestly exercises or omits to exercise any of his functions, shall be punished with imprisonment of one to ten years or fined of two thousand to twenty thousand Baht, or both. http://www.samuifors...penal-code.html http://www.google.co...RHh65sR68Ico-3Q Only question is: If i catch a police wrongfully exercises or does not exercise any of his functions to the injury of any person, (myself) where do i go to press charges ? I think i'm suppose to go to a judge somewhere, but where ? So can you recommend any good lawyer to deal with immigration when they demand ridiculous 'proof' indefinitely, not stated by ministry of foreign affairs ? After having provided everything stated in iso-8859-1__Police Order 2008.pdf , she went on to demand receipt showing that i brought money from my home country. When i came back with that, she went on demanding a copy of my visa card, it was obvious after 4 additional demands that she intended to do that until my visa expired. i guess i should have suspected a fraud and made a civil arrest using the force i deemed necessary In any case, there is pencil video recorders for sale at tuk kom 1300 baht, but i think they are 480*320 resolution, (not sure tho, and neither is the sellers) i'm getting this pencil with 640*480 http://bigboyelectro...com/pen-dvr-4gb What are you talking about with "in iso-8859-1__Police Order 2008.pdf"? Can you provide a link to it? Firstly their job is to exercise their function, which is to grant visa for those who qualify according to the current regulations, and deny visa for those who doesn't qualify for current regulations. Anything else is a break of duty. Secondly if you go down the break of duty route, how do you define undesirables ? under 50 ? punter ? else ? edit: I think the problem is that some police here, like yourself, interpret their emotions/wishful thinking/greed as the actual law The posts seem to be rather strange. They appear to be and unsubstantiated. What does all this have to do with "Corruption Out of Control in Pattaya"? Maybe you should check the Thai visas, residency and work permits forum for answers? Edited August 31, 2011 by BB1950 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poanoi Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) What are you talking about with "in iso-8859-1__Police Order 2008.pdf"? Can you provide a link to it? I was hoping it would provide a direct link to visa regulations, but i'll just upload it here instead, and while i'm at it, i'll also upload Penal code of Thailand. The posts seem to be rather strange. They appear to be and unsubstantiated. Not at all, it was a response to the idea that it is at the discretion of individual Jomtien immigration employees to judge criteria of what constitutes "undesirables" -whatever that mean ? fat ? bad smell ? chemistry ? or......omit bribe ? Maybe you should check the Thai visas, residency and work permits forum for answers? Thanks, but my question was where to find a reliable lawyer, and i already got a recommendation elsewhere. iso-8859-1__Police Order 2008.pdf tlaw50001.pdf Edited August 31, 2011 by poanoi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB1950 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 What are you talking about with "in iso-8859-1__Police Order 2008.pdf"? Can you provide a link to it? I was hoping it would provide a direct link to visa regulations, but i'll just upload it here instead, and while i'm at it, i'll also upload Penal code of Thailand. The posts seem to be rather strange. They appear to be and unsubstantiated. Not at all, it was a response to the idea that it is at the discretion of individual Jomtien immigration employees to judge criteria of what constitutes "undesirables" -whatever that mean ? fat ? bad smell ? chemistry ? or......omit bribe ? Maybe you should check the Thai visas, residency and work permits forum for answers? Thanks, but my question was where to find a reliable lawyer, and i already got a recommendation elsewhere. Thanks for your reply. :jap: It clarified you posts significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyk Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Corruption out of control? No way, it is under tight control if you get the drift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarangBuddha Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 (edited) From your rather strange post' date=' it seems to me the immigration police are doing their job in denying you a visa (getting rid of undesirables) so my hats off to them.[/quote']Firstly their job is to exercise their function, which is to grant visa for those who qualify according to the current regulations, and deny visa for those who doesn't qualify for current regulations. Anything else is a break of duty. Secondly if you go down the break of duty route, how do you define undesirables ? under 50 ? punter ? else ? I completely agree with your first point. If you have the right paperwork and can show that you qualify for a visa-extension, it should be granted. I made the initial point that I have been doing this for over a decade without any problems. However, others have reported problems from time to time (maybe a fiver under the table for the service but this has never been the case with me). However, under the law, I believe the immigration officers have discretion to deny anyone permission to stay for whatever reason and they may use this leverage on occasion for "tips" if they feel someone may be vulnerable to this behavior. As non-Thai citizens, none of us have the exclusive right to visit or reside in Thailand. I found it strange when you went on to mention making a citizen's arrest of the immigration officers and then went on to talk about pen (spy) cameras and the like...maybe you were just being humorous You mentioned finding a lawyer, my point was that if all one needs is an visa extension for a valid reason, there is no need to engage a lawyer to do what one can easily do oneself. If you qualify, good luck with your visa request. Edited September 1, 2011 by FarangBuddha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poanoi Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 The comment of civil arrest on fraud charges was a joke, but just barely. How do i counter an obvious delay of my visa in order to make it invalid ? ( i got a total of 3 weeks of going back to Bkk to get a triple certificate, more bank paper from my country, demand of a copy of my visa card could end up in a counterfeit of my signature that with the help of a friend working in a bank result in some serious tips, at my expense naturally) Documenting the dialog isnt a joke, and i'm on the way to a reportedly good lawyer company to find out if i can hire one of them to first go through the papers and rule out the possibility of any possible additional legal demands, and then accompany me on extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagwan Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I have been bemused for some time by the advertising campaign mounted by the Pattaya police. The poster depicts policeman of various ranks making a gesture with forefinger and thumb which I assumed was to let people know that this was the proper way to masturbate. Well, why not? I have it on the authority of several barflies that the RTP are a bunch of tankers - or was that cankers? I have now been told that the message is that there will in future be zero toleration shown to those not wearing a tin or plastic bonnet. Now I reason, if the BiB and others are not collecting much moolah for the heinous crime of riding a two wheeled motorised bike bareheaded, how are they going to make up for the short fall in their disposable income? What will be the next thing that must be avoided to make sure that money doesn't change hands? BTW has any inveterate non helmet wearer ever taken to wearing a turban to stymie the forces of law and order? If so, did the ruse work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcool Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The comment of civil arrest on fraud charges was a joke, but just barely. How do i counter an obvious delay of my visa in order to make it invalid ? ( i got a total of 3 weeks of going back to Bkk to get a triple certificate, more bank paper from my country, demand of a copy of my visa card could end up in a counterfeit of my signature that with the help of a friend working in a bank result in some serious tips, at my expense naturally) Documenting the dialog isnt a joke, and i'm on the way to a reportedly good lawyer company to find out if i can hire one of them to first go through the papers and rule out the possibility of any possible additional legal demands, and then accompany me on extension. You can actually make some civil arrest but the cases are specify in your penal code or should be..... As to this applying to gov official, Im not sure I would go down that path...... And if it is so difficult to obtain your visa, i would think twice about staying here on a long term basis..... I have been living and working here LEGALLY for a couples of years now and you have to admit that the procedures are getting heavier each year...... One has to ask himself, is it worthy anymore???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimmer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 libelous post removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Corruption out of Control in Pattaya ??? Definately NOT , it is very well controlled as it is in the rest of Thailand. According to UN stats it is second to Philippines with Indonesia running a close third. BUT , if you choose to live/retire in Pattaya or Thailand then you live the way the 'system' is. If you are that nieve to think there is no corruption in UK / Australia / USA then you are 'blinkered' The major difference is that it is just more 'direct' in Asia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimmer Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 There is a relevant topic in Thailand News clippings HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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