Land Dept Claims 90% Of Prime Phuket Land Controlled By Foreigners

[Bluedan]

Also - anybody know how they prove that the land is held by nominees? I guess they ask them - but allot will say no. What happens then?

Its pretty simple. Regulations exist requiring the officials to investigate the bona fides of suspected nominees. Its pretty easy to show that an unemployed person with no money in the bank is not really a genuine investor in a multi million baht property. The fact is that it dfoesnt take much to convince the official not to investigate too thoroughly.

[harleyclarkey]

What do we really see here? Some Thai who probably owns about 1-2% of Thailand suddenly takes an interest in Phuket. Aha...those filthy foreigners have gotten there before me. So lets have it back one way or the other.

It is just their way to further cheat and scam the foreigner out of whatever he has bought. OK. Maybe there were ways around the ownership title that were not 100% cast iron. I know all about the posts here already scorning those who have bought already. But this is exactly what the Thais want.

I remember an ex prime minister being able to freely buy a certain football club in England, and whatever else he wished to buy, have it in his name with cast iron title and hold forever to do with as he wished. Would he, or his successor, have allowed the same freedom and rights in Thailand to a foreign purchaser. Not a hope in hell. They will get it back by fair means or foul...even if it means a law change to suit them.

It is an absolute disgrace that the EC and the States allow the filthy rich (and they have to be to be able to afford foreign land and assets)to buy in Europe and the States from countries who do not reciprocate with legal title for their citizen who are conned on a daily basis. They give full legal protection to the Thais, Chinese, Cambodians, etc. but ignore their own people. Crazy, crazy, crazy. It should be stopped immediately.

It seems the only way to buy in Thailand is the Freehold in a condominium up to 49% of the units or the 3 x 30 year lease....which is open to fraud by the Thais. Nice one Thailand. Buyer beware.

Edited July 2, 2011 by harleyclarkey

[Gers1873]

so the 40 people who own 12% of Thailand's wealth want a bit more?

i seem to remember something like this emerging from Phuket before - methinks some official has got a bit of a complex? (forgive the pun)

I never saw 40 or 12% in the article. Are we reading the same article?

The 40 represents the 40 Thai families whose wealth is equal to 86% of Thai GDP. But its a few farang owning a few houses, mostly with Thai partners that are the real problem.

They govern the country the same way they ride motorcycles. Close your eyes, hope for the best and if it all goes tots up blame the falang

[Murgatroyd]

If, and I stress IF, I had built a house for my wife and family, and the government said to me : We are going to take this land and house away from you and your wife, and deport you for Illegal land purchase, (and trying to support a Thai family), I'd be sorely tempted to hire a bulldozer and a plough, and buy several tons of salt. The government would wind up with a pile of rubble and a plot of land on which nothing would grow.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Murgatroyd

[theblether]

I said it before not a good idea to buy a property in a company name using Thais as 51% shareholders..This was not the reason this system was put in place so forigners could buy houses here....Sell Sell Sell

Completely and utterly correct.........I watch a lot of farang here who have zero business experience in their own country, and suddenly decide that they are in a position to invest and become businessmen here in Thailand.

If you presented the Thai law to your Attorney or Solicitor in your own country they would advise you that to invest here under current Thai law is a ridiculous proposition. If you don't believe me, try it. There are far too many Farang parking their brains at the airport.

[maxtingtong]

Voting times.. good moment to raise up some more tips

[recycler]

Don't invest anything more in Thailand than you can finish in 2 weeks, the contents of your fridge!

[Mikelom]

I wonder how this will affect married couples. The authorities know that when a foreigner marries a poor Thai woman, and they buy a house together, which is put in her name, that the money came from the foreigner. I suppose we all have to find ways to make it look like the money came from her. The silly consequence is that if the land is confiscated, the Thai wife will lose both her home and husband. Then the rich can buy the land at a bargain basement price. Have the officials been on a study trip to Zimbabwe, by any chance?

I'm not clear about your line of thought on this one. They are talking about investors on larger scales, manipulating group managers who will own 50% of the land, and the foreigner owns 50% as a partnership. They are talking large scale land buy outs, not a little man with a Thai wife. A Thai wife will own 100% of the land and house bought by her husband, so there is no issue of risk. They would not confiscate land that is owned 100% outright by a Thai wether her husband was English or from Timbuktu. That is their argument. The larger groups, such as the German conglomerates who own half of Hua Hin, and the Russian conglomerates who own 60% of Pattaya are the ones they are scrutinising, and to add - I agree with this move. Cool down! :jap:

-m.

[Dukeleto]

Sell the land at ridiculous profit to foreigners prepared to pay under the guise of the Thai property law loop hole. When all the land is about sold, tighten up the loop holes which allowed foreign ownership and seize the land while deporting the owners to prevent a backlash. Then... allow the law to loosen up again and resell seized land at ridiculous profit again to new unsuspecting foreigners. Nice scam to give every new generation a piece of the land pie. Smacks of the Time share scam officials are "so concerned" about. Why did Thailand not just make a law in the beginning that Thai-land may only be owned 100% by 100% Thai people. No ambiguity, no doubt and no foreigners...and no development.

[razer]

so the 40 people who own 12% of Thailand's wealth want a bit more?

The Economist reported that 100 Chinese-Thai families control the Thai economy. The Economist is a reliable source.

i seem to remember something like this emerging from Phuket before - methinks some official has got a bit of a complex? (forgive the pun)

I never saw 40 or 12% in the article. Are we reading the same article?

[theblether]

I wonder how this will affect married couples. The authorities know that when a foreigner marries a poor Thai woman, and they buy a house together, which is put in her name, that the money came from the foreigner. I suppose we all have to find ways to make it look like the money came from her. The silly consequence is that if the land is confiscated, the Thai wife will lose both her home and husband. Then the rich can buy the land at a bargain basement price. Have the officials been on a study trip to Zimbabwe, by any chance?

I'm not clear about your line of thought on this one. They are talking about investors on larger scales, manipulating group managers who will own 50% of the land, and the foreigner owns 50% as a partnership. They are talking large scale land buy outs, not a little man with a Thai wife. A Thai wife will own 100% of the land and house bought by her husband, so there is no issue of risk. They would not confiscate land that is owned 100% outright by a Thai wether her husband was English or from Timbuktu. That is their argument. The larger groups, such as the German conglomerates who own half of Hua Hin, and the Russian conglomerates who own 60% of Pattaya are the ones they are scrutinising, and to add - I agree with this move. Cool down! :jap:

-m.

Very valid point....for most small home owners with Thai wives the security of tenure will be directly related to the state of their marriage.

[Dukeleto]

I wonder how this will affect married couples. The authorities know that when a foreigner marries a poor Thai woman, and they buy a house together, which is put in her name, that the money came from the foreigner. I suppose we all have to find ways to make it look like the money came from her. The silly consequence is that if the land is confiscated, the Thai wife will lose both her home and husband. Then the rich can buy the land at a bargain basement price. Have the officials been on a study trip to Zimbabwe, by any chance?

I'm not clear about your line of thought on this one. They are talking about investors on larger scales, manipulating group managers who will own 50% of the land, and the foreigner owns 50% as a partnership. They are talking large scale land buy outs, not a little man with a Thai wife. A Thai wife will own 100% of the land and house bought by her husband, so there is no issue of risk. They would not confiscate land that is owned 100% outright by a Thai wether her husband was English or from Timbuktu. That is their argument. The larger groups, such as the German conglomerates who own half of Hua Hin, and the Russian conglomerates who own 60% of Pattaya are the ones they are scrutinising, and to add - I agree with this move. Cool down! :jap:

-m.

I am also not clear on your line of thought either, so the retired individual who does not have a Thai wife and uses a Thai company with nominees to hold the land his house is on, is safe?

[razer]

The Economist reported that 100 Chinese-Thai families control the Thai economy. In my former life I made feasibility studies for my company's foreign investment. Thailand would never be a recommendation and this article is an example of just ONE reason why.

Edited July 2, 2011 by razer

[OlafStapleton]

I have answer!

Make it easy for foreigners living here become Thai nationals, then only Thais will own land.

then

Nationalize holiday homes (from rich Thais) and give to poor Thais.

(each Thai national allowed only 1 property)

Edited July 2, 2011 by OlafStapleton

[KoratFarang]

If the fightings went back to the street, the militery was taking over, investment was stoping in thailand, the baht going down, after the election, with the way some that behave, it would be time to say somnamna !!

[theblether]

I wonder how this will affect married couples. The authorities know that when a foreigner marries a poor Thai woman, and they buy a house together, which is put in her name, that the money came from the foreigner. I suppose we all have to find ways to make it look like the money came from her. The silly consequence is that if the land is confiscated, the Thai wife will lose both her home and husband. Then the rich can buy the land at a bargain basement price. Have the officials been on a study trip to Zimbabwe, by any chance?

I'm not clear about your line of thought on this one. They are talking about investors on larger scales, manipulating group managers who will own 50% of the land, and the foreigner owns 50% as a partnership. They are talking large scale land buy outs, not a little man with a Thai wife. A Thai wife will own 100% of the land and house bought by her husband, so there is no issue of risk. They would not confiscate land that is owned 100% outright by a Thai wether her husband was English or from Timbuktu. That is their argument. The larger groups, such as the German conglomerates who own half of Hua Hin, and the Russian conglomerates who own 60% of Pattaya are the ones they are scrutinising, and to add - I agree with this move. Cool down! :jap:

-m.

I am also not clear on your line of thought either, so the retired individual who does not have a Thai wife and uses a Thai company with nominees to hold the land his house is on, is safe?

No....that is exactly who they are targeting. It seems harsh to be fair, and to what extent they will pursue that individual will probably be down to luck, or lack of. However the root of the problem is that foreigners cannot be in control of land in Thailand, effective or otherwise. There have been recent reports of people in Phuket being bled dry of their assets as the 51% shareholder nominee has salted the assets away. This is the brutal reality, if you give 51% nominee shareholding to someone else you may as well give them 100% and get on your knees and pray.

To invest in Thailand under this law is ridiculous, anyone in the process of doing so, please stop. Anyone who has, please look carefully at how you are going to extricate yourself. There's no point huffing and puffing, this is harsh and brutal reality, you control nothing, and risk everything.

[BigSkip]

Is this the last straw??? Short time gain, life time loss driving all the BAD, Bad Foreigners away.

[sbk]

The cumulative effect of this had been a growing problem of land ownership though Thai “nominees”, he was quoted as saying in a Thai-language report on the state-run MCOT website.

Thailand was one of many countries experiencing this problem, he said.

Are other countries suffering from this?

Yes

http://www.bizjournals.com/birmingham/stories/2008/08/18/story1.html

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/concern-grows-over-foreign-ownership-of-australian-farmland/story-e6frede3-1226084447622

http://www.interest.co.nz/rural-news/50065/foreign-ownership-land-spotlight

http://americanagriculturist.com/story.aspx/increase-in-foreign-owned-us-ag-land-32106

http://mg.co.za/article/2011-01-12-nehawu-calls-for-ban-on-foreign-land-ownership/

[DoctorG]

After living in Thailand for 2 years I have given up my retirement visa. The lack of financial and political stability are just some of the reasons.

Never invest anything in Thailand that you cannot afford to lose.

[wlcart]

If you panic and get worked up every time you encounter stupidity in the LoS you will go crazy. If you cannot handle it, you probably shouldn't invest here anyway. Yeah, this guy sounds like an idiot, what else is new?

[Just1Voice]

There's a line in the movie "Heat", with Al Pacino and Robert DeNero that applies to this. DeNero, as professional thief Neil McCauley, advises "Never get attached to anything you aren't prepared to walk away from in 30 seconds flat."

I have a beautiful home, a beautiful, and very good Thai wife of 52 (10 years my junior), and her 26 yr old son that I legally adopted and who, on his own, legally changed his last name to mine. Everything we have we put in his name. He's a great young man and my trust in him is not an issue in the least.

BUT....if for some reason...if something happened...I'd have no problems doing exactly what DeNero said. They could have the house & car, but not my CBR since it's in my name, and they can't touch my money. I have 100% VA disability which, by VA Regulations, can only go to an account that is in MY NAME ONLY, with restrictions of NO Debit card and NO online banking. Once a month I have to show up in person to withdraw from my acct and put in the joint account we have.

I walk, I take my money with me, they can't make payments, they lose everything very quickly. And they know it. Sort of my own personal "insurance policy" if you wish.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Just1Voice

[toret]

In danger of sounding like an asshol_e with 20/20 hindsight, it has been my opinion since my first winter in Asia 15 years ago, that owning anything more than my own vehicle here would be plain stupid, if not for other reasons than lack of flexibility.

I would like to express my views in general on this matter, and it is that my country should extend the rights to own land only to people from territories that extend the same right to me.

[aripengu]

the day before the general election blame it all not on the local ruling class, but on those pesky foreigners - so confused voters would cast their vote on the status quo and "social order" parties.

nationalistic frenzy is the best way to divert an attention from the real (and not an imaginary) social issues, like poverty and lack of justice.

kun sriracha is a good lapdog of the army, that's why he was appointed a member of Constitution Drafting Committee back in 2007, why he got a cushy job in the one of the most corrupted governmental departments and why he has spoken now about the foreigners

totally agree

Like the stupid Border Dispute with Cambodia. just distractions from the real problems.

[leeon]

Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[emsfeld]

Are other countries suffering from this?

Though I agree that the land dept is overreacting, this is in fact a big problem, IMHO, in a lot of the South Pacific Island nations where a reasonable proportion of prime land was sold/ long-term leased to foreign investors.

[KoratFarang]

If you have the network for a company to make money, the way to do it is. Let all invoice go true side company you can make in many countries, never let any thai person get any adresse or anything, they start fuc_king with you, you will stop the payment and give the contract to another thai company. Make sure the thai company knows what company they are dealing with, and make the company in some country with war and no laws. Make sure the know your only an agent, so if you stop the payment (tell them your not in control of the payments) they have to sue someone they dont know in a country with no law and in war. so the thai will loose money not you.

[InterestedObserver]

After living in Thailand for 2 years I have given up my retirement visa. The lack of financial and political stability are just some of the reasons.

Never invest anything in Thailand that you cannot afford to lose.

Only took two years to realize that you made a mistake!

[paulchiangmai]

No worries in Australia,

We have already sold off the land to foreigners such as the Hong Kong Chinese.

And all quite legally!

Yes, as well as some of Australia's landmark infrastructure, such as the Indian Pacific Railway, the Ghan, the whole shebang, .. to a British company.

Go to Hell John Howard.

Have you thought of getting some help TechnikaIII, it was after putting up with the mindless opinions of <deleted> like you for near on a lifetime that I finally departed Australia. Nothing wrong with the country, but some of the people are very sick.

[meelousee]

Correct me if I am wrong, this happened once before in Pattaya.

Then came the land price crash, and the Thai Mafia bought direct from the Land Dept.

[fullcave]

This is an oxymoron as a foreigner can NOT own land in Thailand.